Random...

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Random...

#1

Unread post by profastian » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:42 am

I was just curious what was the basis of everyone's belief. Not the abde proggie thing, but belief in God in general. I mean how do everyone(abde's and proggies) prove to themselves that God exists? Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
Does everyone here belief in fate?
What about your opinion on choice and fate? If you believe in fate, doesn't that make life frustrating and boring? And why did God need fate anyway. Why was it introduced in religion?
And maybe someone could point out some philosophers (preferbly atheists) who have thought about these things (besides Russell).

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Random...

#2

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:38 pm

I am a firm believer in the existence of Allah(God) and have no doubts in my mind. But at the same time I have read a lot of written by very famous athiests just to know what the the people with opposite thinking, think. And I think you should too. There is a site of athiests called "Humanists.com"

There is fate and freewill both are included in Islamic thinking. to illustrate the point, think of a horse tied to a pole with a long rope. the max limit of the diameter the rope moves in, is his fate and within the diameter of the rope is his freewill for his movement.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Random...

#3

Unread post by profastian » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:36 am

Kaka Akela wrote:I am a firm believer in the existence of Allah(God) and have no doubts in my mind.
But that is what I am curious to know. Why are you a firm believer? What proof or justification do you give yourself for God's existence?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:43 am

I have a Dai living next door to me. I go and kiss his feet and then his Amil spanks me and empties my pocket. They have a library of hidden books that I cannot read. This is my proof and justification. This is the reason why I am a firm believer.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#5

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:09 am

One day the Imam appeared to my Dai in his backyard with Nuraani Noor on his face and he told him that he has appointed many other useless representatives like the Alavi Dai, the Dawoodi Dai and even a few other Imams but he was dissappointed with them all. So he has now chosen my Dai to be the infallible representative of Imam and hence Allah on earth. Since my Dai was appointed by an infallible Imam (notwithstanding the fact that he messed up with the appointments of the other useless Dais), my Dai is infallible. He was given a title better than Dai Mutlak. He is known as The Honorable Dai Fultak. He has been given the title of Maluddin Leuddin Khauddin. He makes us cry for 10 days everymonth and charges exorbitant amounts of money for letting us kiss his feet. But we are glad that the last and final Dai is our Dai who is going to live ta qayamat all by himself, cause hopefully, we won't be there.

anajmi
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Re: Random...

#6

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Only yesterday my Dai told me not to piss in the ocean. This headline today proves that he is infallible. Another reason why I am a firm believer.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#7

Unread post by porus » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:02 pm

anajmi wrote:......my Dai is infallible. He was given a title better than Dai Mutlak. He is known as The Honorable Dai Fultak....
Shouldn't that be The Honorable Dai Footlick? :D

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Random...

#8

Unread post by profastian » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:14 pm

porus wrote:
anajmi wrote:......my Dai is infallible. He was given a title better than Dai Mutlak. He is known as The Honorable Dai Fultak....
Shouldn't that be The Honorable Dai Footlick? :D
Here comes the village idiot.

anajmi
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Re: Random...

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:16 pm

The Honorable Dai Futlak.

profastian
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Re: Random...

#10

Unread post by profastian » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:43 am

anajmi wrote:The Honorable Dai Futlak.
and his stooge.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Random...

#11

Unread post by SBM » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:42 am

profastian wrote:
anajmi wrote:The Honorable Dai Futlak.
and his stooge.
And who are his stooges "THE REGRESSIVE ABDES WHICH IS YOU" Q.E.D
so you should have no problem if we call you The stooge instead of Profastian

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:53 am

profastian,

I have told you why I am a firm believer. Now, can you tell us your point of view for the questions that you have asked?

That was a rhetorical question. We already know that you are not going to answer any of those questions. The reason being, after all those pretensions, you are actually looking for those answers. You do not have them and you have realized that your Dai is incapable of providing them. You've seen the wealth of knowledge on this board and how ordinary people have been able to hammer Syedna educated abdes like Adam. So you have seen an easier way to get answers to questions that have been boggling your "ghanu jeevo" singing brain.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Random...

#13

Unread post by Adam » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:34 pm

anajmi wrote:profastian,
I have told you why I am a firm believer. Now, can you tell us your point of view for the questions that you have asked?

I don't think you've given "mature" "sensible" reasons. Read your comment again, you'll understand you weren't in a sane frame of mind when you talk.

Profastian
One thought of mine in this context is, the Quran, in most cases has proved the Creator through the created. The Quran is guiding us on HOW and WHY to believe so.
Many ayats say something similar to
امن خلق السماوات...... ا اله مع الله؟
قل من رب السماوات السبع؟

So yes, existence of creation deems necessary the creator. Very simple, but very deep thought. My opinion.

P.S - Adam isn't getting a hammering :)

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#14

Unread post by porus » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:33 pm

Adam wrote:
One thought of mine in this context is, the Quran, in most cases has proved the Creator through the created. The Quran is guiding us on HOW and WHY to believe so.
Many ayats say something similar to
امن خلق السماوات...... ا اله مع الله؟
قل من رب السماوات السبع؟

So yes, existence of creation deems necessary the creator. Very simple, but very deep thought. My opinion.
Quran does not prove that there is a Creator. It simply states it. The ayats you have quoted above (27:60 and 13:16) do not offer any proof. They simply declare that Allah is the creator of heavens and earth. (By the way, why do you think Allah refers to heavens in plural and to earth in singular?)

I will grant you that it is plausible that there is a creator of the universe. That is because our minds demand 'First Cause'. However, nothing follows from that. Especially the arrival of humans on earth or arrival of 'heavenly' books sent by the Creator to specific human beings.

I think that we should clearly distinguish between 3 terms which religious people tend to use interchangeably but have very different meanings. The terms are knowledge, belief and faith.

Knowledge is certainty. Most that humans know is not 'knowledge' from that definition. Most human knowledge are beliefs with varying degrees of certainty. Knowledge = 100% certainty. [e.g. If you jump out of 50th floor window, you will fall to the ground. If you put your hand in fire, you will get burned]

Beliefs are positive or negative assertions made with varying degree of probability. [Most scientific theories (high probability) and 'common sense' (low probability)]. These are subject to change when evidence piles up. A comparatively low investment of psychological energy is a hallmark of belief.

Faith is absolute trust in an individual or a proposition regardless of evidence to the contrary. Very resistant to change. Overwhelming evidence against faith can induce psychological trauma at worst or massive disappointment at best. [Love and its betrayal, religions including 'infallibility' of Dai]. This is akin to a child's absolute trust for his parents. Faith is characterized by a very high investment of psychological energy.

I venture to say that the majority of human beings are not people of Faith. They espouse faith for psychological reasons like safety in numbers etc. Human beings of faith are found mostly among Fundamentalists of religions. Among Muslims, they are Taliban, Wahhabis, Abde Bohras, etc. Among non-Muslims they are RSS, Ultra-Orthodox Jews etc.

anajmi
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Re: Random...

#15

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:18 pm

I don't think you've given "mature" "sensible" reasons.
So you are saying that belief in a Dai who claims to have received his infallibility from a hidden Imam is not "mature" and "sensible"??? WOW!!

Thank you for saying that which we have been saying all along. :wink:

profastian
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Re: Random...

#16

Unread post by profastian » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:50 am

deleted

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: Random...

#17

Unread post by Human » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:38 pm

anajmi wrote:I have a Dai living next door to me. I go and kiss his feet and then his Amil spanks me and empties my pocket. They have a library of hidden books that I cannot read. This is my proof and justification. This is the reason why I am a firm believer.
Anajmi,
You have a great gift of diverting the topic in a funny way. At the same time you did not answer the question that prof has posted here. He might be a devout abde, but from this question of his it is sure that even he has his doubts. It happens to everyone. The only difference is, if you let the facts and logic take over something that is unproven based on (blind) faith OR you still hold on to the faith and suppress whatever you brain is telling you; just because you're too scared and you don't want to burn in hellfire.
Mocking members of the forum and someone's faith is one thing, but can you answer prof's question in a straightforward way? Can you explain your beliefs? Can you explain why do you believe in the Sunni faith and why do you take Quran as the ultimate word of truth? Agreed bohraism is flawed and there are certain members atop the faith who are taking advantage of it financially, but do you have any proof that your faith is not flawed?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
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Re: Random...

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:54 pm

profastian wrote:Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
If there is a creation then it cannot be without a creator, nothing can come on its own.
profastian wrote:Does everyone here belief in fate?
Yes.
profastian wrote:If you believe in fate, doesn't that make life frustrating and boring? And why did God need fate anyway. Why was it introduced in religion?
Life itself is a struggle. For an indepth study one has to ponder over a basic but most important question, "What is the purpose of ones existence ?". Even an ant has a purpose and humans are supossed to be the best creation of God so what could be his purpose ? This is a very exhaustive and lengthy topic which is difficult to debate here.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: Random...

#19

Unread post by Human » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:14 pm

profastian wrote:I was just curious what was the basis of everyone's belief. Not the abde proggie thing, but belief in God in general. I mean how do everyone(abde's and proggies) prove to themselves that God exists? Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
Does everyone here belief in fate?
What about your opinion on choice and fate? If you believe in fate, doesn't that make life frustrating and boring? And why did God need fate anyway. Why was it introduced in religion?
And maybe someone could point out some philosophers (preferbly atheists) who have thought about these things (besides Russell).
I will try to give my point of view. Being a man of science, I have struggled with religion/faith for many years. I was born in dawoodi bohra faith and I was too scared of thinking that what we were taught could be wrong or roots of the very faith are based on something that is just 'assumed' to be the truth, never proven. I suppressed my logical beliefs for years, but eventually I let them take over.
I believe that God or a supreme being is a concept coming from pre stone age. When the early human evolutions happened from the great apes, they were a lot smarter and they had the ability of reasoning. However as primitive as they were, most of the things were unexplained; examples are rain, thunder, sunlight, wind, waves in ocean, etc. The convenient way from those times was assuming that there are supreme beings (multiple gods) who had created everything and they controlled everything. As the humans started making basic discoveries & inventions and started getting civilised, the God concept became more sophisticated. Eventually it gave birth to communities of people who believed in certain gods and they fought against other communities who believed in their own gods. This eventually gave birth to organised religion. The smarter people saw religion or faith as the means of mass control giving they a lot of power, at times more power than the ruler or king of the land. The concept of religion and God, eventually became more refined and there were texts on it. Eventually the texts were compiled into books which then became the word of God and ofcourse the civilised man about 1000-10,000 years ago thought that if there weren't multiple gods and there'd only be one GOD, he'd be the most supreme and most powerful and so came the concept of mono-god. Scriptures got more and more refined, better and better by the century. Stories of special people and miracles came by and people were scared to death of questioning any of those. Mind you a basic card trick of today would have been a miracle back then, so smart people obviously were capable of 'miracles'.
Centuries passed, science started giving more and more answers; solving mysteries that were before believed to be unexplained doings of god. Eventually science started proving certain things in the religious books wrong. These religious books were the pillars or the very foundation of religions/faith and the people of blind faith didn't like it. They tried their best to execute scientists and suppress the truth, but it eventually came out. When the religions had no point of argument left, they said the religious books are word of god, so everything in there is not literal. And we can't understand the true meaning of it. So the understanding of something that was true until then was proved wrong by science; so now it goes back to the drawing board where the religious scholars will try their best to interpret it again in second best possible way (until science proves it wrong again).
Lets forget science and faith for a minute. Lets consider the statistical probability of God or any religion on earth being the truth. Our planet is an object in the universe. So far, the universe known to humans is so vast that it is comparable to the sand on beaches. If you were to think that our earth is a tiny pebble in the sand of a beach and you were to combine sand from all beaches in the world; then that is how it compares to the number of objects in the universe. In the grand scale of things, we're are not even a tiny speck. So I have no doubt that there's plenty of other intelligent life out there. And if you consider the probability that a part of us on earth have nailed the god concept (the ultimate truth), you are dreaming! Religion/Faith thrives on things that science cannot YET explain!

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Random...

#20

Unread post by profastian » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:26 am

Human wrote:
profastian wrote:I was just curious what was the basis of everyone's belief. Not the abde proggie thing, but belief in God in general. I mean how do everyone(abde's and proggies) prove to themselves that God exists? Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
Does everyone here belief in fate?
What about your opinion on choice and fate? If you believe in fate, doesn't that make life frustrating and boring? And why did God need fate anyway. Why was it introduced in religion?
And maybe someone could point out some philosophers (preferbly atheists) who have thought about these things (besides Russell).
I will try to give my point of view. Being a man of science, I have struggled with religion/faith for many years. I was born in dawoodi bohra faith and I was too scared of thinking that what we were taught could be wrong or roots of the very faith are based on something that is just 'assumed' to be the truth, never proven. I suppressed my logical beliefs for years, but eventually I let them take over.
I believe that God or a supreme being is a concept coming from pre stone age. When the early human evolutions happened from the great apes, they were a lot smarter and they had the ability of reasoning. However as primitive as they were, most of the things were unexplained; examples are rain, thunder, sunlight, wind, waves in ocean, etc. The convenient way from those times was assuming that there are supreme beings (multiple gods) who had created everything and they controlled everything. As the humans started making basic discoveries & inventions and started getting civilised, the God concept became more sophisticated. Eventually it gave birth to communities of people who believed in certain gods and they fought against other communities who believed in their own gods. This eventually gave birth to organised religion. The smarter people saw religion or faith as the means of mass control giving they a lot of power, at times more power than the ruler or king of the land. The concept of religion and God, eventually became more refined and there were texts on it. Eventually the texts were compiled into books which then became the word of God and ofcourse the civilised man about 1000-10,000 years ago thought that if there weren't multiple gods and there'd only be one GOD, he'd be the most supreme and most powerful and so came the concept of mono-god. Scriptures got more and more refined, better and better by the century. Stories of special people and miracles came by and people were scared to death of questioning any of those. Mind you a basic card trick of today would have been a miracle back then, so smart people obviously were capable of 'miracles'.
Centuries passed, science started giving more and more answers; solving mysteries that were before believed to be unexplained doings of god. Eventually science started proving certain things in the religious books wrong. These religious books were the pillars or the very foundation of religions/faith and the people of blind faith didn't like it. They tried their best to execute scientists and suppress the truth, but it eventually came out. When the religions had no point of argument left, they said the religious books are word of god, so everything in there is not literal. And we can't understand the true meaning of it. So the understanding of something that was true until then was proved wrong by science; so now it goes back to the drawing board where the religious scholars will try their best to interpret it again in second best possible way (until science proves it wrong again).
Lets forget science and faith for a minute. Lets consider the statistical probability of God or any religion on earth being the truth. Our planet is an object in the universe. So far, the universe known to humans is so vast that it is comparable to the sand on beaches. If you were to think that our earth is a tiny pebble in the sand of a beach and you were to combine sand from all beaches in the world; then that is how it compares to the number of objects in the universe. In the grand scale of things, we're are not even a tiny speck. So I have no doubt that there's plenty of other intelligent life out there. And if you consider the probability that a part of us on earth have nailed the god concept (the ultimate truth), you are dreaming! Religion/Faith thrives on things that science cannot YET explain!
Ok , so according to you God is just an accident, just as life is (according to science). But the biggest hole in that theory is consciousness. What is the nature of consciousness? Is it just the amalgamation and right combination of Hydrocarbons. Will science be ever able to create a conscious being?

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Random...

#21

Unread post by Adam » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:10 am

@Childish remark from Anajmi again. Being old and acting like a child is a real shame :(.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#22

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:49 am

the only mature person on this board, according to adam in his own opinion no less, is adam himself!

everyone who vehemently disagrees with him and his insane logic, is immature and childish. that would make the prophet muhammad, ali, hassan, hussain et al, all immature and childish. going further, even allah, nauzobillah, is immature and childish, because he sent down a foolish book which disagrees with adam's kufr filled logic, his DABR beliefs and the actions of his dai!!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:20 am

Adam,

So you are saying that belief in a Dai that makes me kiss his feet and pay him money for doing that and who has received his infallibility from the hidden Imam is childish and a real shame???

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#24

Unread post by porus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:52 am

Human wrote:When the religions had no point of argument left, they said the religious books are word of god, so everything in there is not literal. And we can't understand the true meaning of it. So the understanding of something that was true until then was proved wrong by science; so now it goes back to the drawing board where the religious scholars will try their best to interpret it again in second best possible way (until science proves it wrong again).
I would like us to be fair to Quran with regard to the above comment. Long before science achieved its preeminence, Quran had declared that not everything in it is to be taken literally. That there are things in it which are hidden (batin) and things in it whose interpretation (tawil) is known only to God.

That God is the creator of the universe is your belief based on what appears to be a 'loose end' in the belief that everything must have a cause. And you state, without evidence, that first cause is God. Beliefs are characterized by the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you but that they will think that you have a point. Most people believe in God but have no 'faith' in Him.

If you elevate your belief to state that God is benevolent and will reward you for your 'good' deeds and punish you for 'bad' deeds, then, it becomes Faith. Faith is not subject to rational discourse as we have found on this forum. At best, faith is psychological 'walking stick' which makes life bearable for some people; at worst it is, as Richard Dawkins would say, a delusion. People will accept or reject your faith for no rational reason.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:27 am

Another important piece of this "human" puzzle is "hope". Without "faith", there is no "hope" and without hope a human would end up living not for a better tomorrow, but for a better right now and that would most certainly lead to disaster of far greater proportions than we see us involved in currently.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Random...

#26

Unread post by SBM » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:38 am

profastian on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:42 am
I was just curious what was the basis of everyone's belief. Not the abde proggie thing, but belief in God in general. I mean how do everyone(abde's and proggies) prove to themselves that God exists? Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
Does everyone here belief in fate?
What about your opinion on choice and fate? If you believe in fate, doesn't that make life frustrating and boring? And why did God need fate anyway. Why was it introduced in religion?
And maybe someone could point out some philosophers (preferbly atheists) who have thought about these things (besides Russ
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
Disclaimer: You can discard everything outside the box. I only agree with Einstein part of the story to provide info for Profastian's point

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#27

Unread post by porus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:32 pm

anajmi wrote:Another important piece of this "human" puzzle is "hope". Without "faith", there is no "hope" and without hope a human would end up living not for a better tomorrow, but for a better right now and that would most certainly lead to disaster of far greater proportions than we see us involved in currently.
Hope is just another word for faith. To be sure, it is on the borderline between belief and faith. Hope can be easily dashed but not faith.

I like to think of belief, faith and knowledge as a plane with two axes. Belief/faith axis and Belief/Knowledge axis, both starting with 0% belief.

Belief/faith axis ends at faith which approaches100% belief, but does not quite reach it.

Belief/Knowledge axis ends at 100% knowledge (certainty). Somewhere along the axis, say at 95% are major scientific theories like Evolution, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:47 pm

Hope is just another word for faith.
I disagree. A relative of a person with terminal cancer has hope that he will survive and not faith.

Hope comes into the picture where there is no faith. For eg. I am going to take part in a competition where I am not the best. I hope to win it because I do not have faith that I wil win. Ultimately ofcourse, the reason you have hope is because you have faith in a higher power that might be able to help you achieve that which you cannot on your own. Hence without faith there is no hope.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#29

Unread post by porus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:09 pm

anajmi wrote:
Hope is just another word for faith.
I disagree. A relative of a person with terminal cancer has hope that he will survive and not faith.

Hope comes into the picture where there is no faith. For eg. I am going to take part in a competition where I am not the best. I hope to win it because I do not have faith that I wil win. Ultimately ofcourse, the reason you have hope is because you have faith in a higher power that might be able to help you achieve that which you cannot on your own. Hence without faith there is no hope.
porus wrote: Belief/faith axis ends at faith which approaches100% belief, but does not quite reach it.
Let me extend the Belief/faith axis below zero into negative territory. With negative belief, there cannot be hope. Positive belief gives rise to hope, which is not quite faith but may approach it.

If you have no belief in your ability to win a race, you will have no hope either. If you believe you can win, you will have hope.

Once you are in positive territory, you begin to have some faith in your ability to win, which is just another way of saying that you have hope but it has not been elevated to faith because of your reason (your training and competition). When you abandon reason, you will have faith. Increasing faith requires progressive abandonment of restrictions of rationality and reason.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#30

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:55 pm

profastian wrote:
Kaka Akela wrote:I am a firm believer in the existence of Allah(God) and have no doubts in my mind.
But that is what I am curious to know. Why are you a firm believer? What proof or justification do you give yourself for God's existence?
profas,

the ultimate repository of all knowledge is syedna. he is the haqiq kaaba and natiqe quran. send in an arzi in hazrate aaliyah imamiyah qudsaniyah with a fakhir najwa through your local amil, of course after doing a reverse sajda to him, and syedna will answer all your questions and address all your doubts. the prescribed method of seeking knowledge for a DABR is at the feet of syedna or one of his deputized amils, not from a progressive bohra forum where you yourself utter laanats against them 24/7.