Random...

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: Random...

#31

Unread post by Human » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:44 pm

profastian wrote: Ok , so according to you God is just an accident, just as life is (according to science). But the biggest hole in that theory is consciousness. What is the nature of consciousness? Is it just the amalgamation and right combination of Hydrocarbons. Will science be ever able to create a conscious being?
I'm not saying God's an accident, I'm saying that religions are well executed plans (no accident!). I still do not discount the existence of a creator until science proves all the unexplained mysteries that are out there, but I refuse to believe that a particular religion on earth has cracked it correctly and that you have to do certain things to please the creator if he exists.
FYI, consciousness is just a state of mind according to science and all animals have consciousness too. Especially the great apes are so close to us in every sense (emotionally, biologically, physically, etc) that it is an absolute certainty that the modern homo-sapiens sapiens evolved from apes unlike what any major religion would tell you.
By the way, I could not make sense out of "amalgamation and right combination of Hydrocarbons" :D If that's your understanding of consciousness then you need to stop smoking pot. Hydrocarbons are molecular combinations of hydrogen and carbons and do not have anything to do with consciousness. :mrgreen:

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#32

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 am

profastian wrote:Isn't the argument that "because there is creation, the creator must be present", too shallow?
It indeed is. If a creation needs a creator then isn't God himself a creation needing a creator? Or did he appear magically just like that?

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#33

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:08 am

Human wrote:I still do not discount the existence of a creator until science proves all the unexplained mysteries that are out there
Just because science has not explained a few mysteries, it does not mean we should believe in existence of a creator. Remember, a few decades/centuries ago there were lots and lots of unexplained mysteries which science explained over the course of time. We should give it some more time to explain the remaining unsolved mysteries before reaching any conclusion.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Random...

#34

Unread post by progticide » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:09 am

anajmi wrote:I have a Dai living next door to me. I go and kiss his feet and then his Amil spanks me and empties my pocket. They have a library of hidden books that I cannot read. This is my proof and justification. This is the reason why I am a firm believer.
Using your above logic, we may also assume the following for you:

You have a neighbour living next door to you. You go and kiss his feet and then his servant spanks you and empties your pocket. They have a library of hidden video games that you cannot play. This is your proof and justification. This is the reason why you are a firm believer - "that your neighbour is your real father"

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:28 am

Correct. You can absolutely assume that. Which proves why abdes idiots are idiots and I am not. Thank you for actually proving my point. :wink:

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Random...

#36

Unread post by progticide » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:21 am

anajmi wrote:Correct. You can absolutely assume that. Which proves why abdes idiots are idiots and I am not. Thank you for actually proving my point. :wink:
So finally Anajmi agrees that his point is proved that his neighbour is his real father.

Let us all congratulate Anajmi on he getting to know his real father.

MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Re: Random...

#37

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:13 am

nah anajmi has much cnfusn related dat i.e. Right side neighbour or left

anyways cngrats

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:19 am

Fortunately for abdes, there is no confusion. The Dai is the father for all of you isn't he? :mrgreen:

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#39

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:16 pm

MurtazaVds wrote:nah anajmi has much cnfusn related dat i.e. Right side neighbour or left

anyways cngrats
u hav biggr cnphusn relatd dat.. rt side, lft side,frnt side or backside..

why u hav VD? 2 much sides naybors... ! mubaark, su eni niraali shaan chhe!!!

MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Re: Random...

#40

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:15 am

here come anajmi's saviour
to keep anajmi batt protected

chor chor ( AZ , ANAJMI) mausere bhai

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#41

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:13 am

Would anyone be kind enough to bring the thread back to its original topic.

Anyone want to comment on what I said in my earlier posts?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Random...

#42

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:42 pm

Just because science has not explained a few mysteries, it does not mean we should believe in existence of a creator.
I do not know of anyone who believes in a creator because science wasn't able to explain a few mysteries. Do you? Belief in a creator comes naturally to a human. Some see science create a microwave owen and force themselves to reject that which comes to them naturally.

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#43

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:51 am

anajmi wrote:
Just because science has not explained a few mysteries, it does not mean we should believe in existence of a creator.
I do not know of anyone who believes in a creator because science wasn't able to explain a few mysteries. Do you? Belief in a creator comes naturally to a human. Some see science create a microwave owen and force themselves to reject that which comes to them naturally.
I do not. My statement was in reply to Human's post (please refer the statement I quoted in my post above).

I understand that belief in a creator comes naturally to a human but is that belief correct? What is the proof of existence of a creator?

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Random...

#44

Unread post by profastian » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:53 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
anajmi wrote: I do not know of anyone who believes in a creator because science wasn't able to explain a few mysteries. Do you? Belief in a creator comes naturally to a human. Some see science create a microwave owen and force themselves to reject that which comes to them naturally.
I do not. My statement was in reply to Human's post (please refer the statement I quoted in my post above).

I understand that belief in a creator comes naturally to a human but is that belief correct? What is the proof of existence of a creator?
Isn't that obvious. The proof is the creation

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#45

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:44 am

profastian wrote:Isn't that obvious. The proof is the creation
In which case please refer my earlier post. If creation is the proof, then God himself is a creation needing a creator. Isn't it? So there must be a bigger God? and for creating that bigger God there must be even a bigger God and so on...

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Random...

#46

Unread post by progticide » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:33 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
profastian wrote:Isn't that obvious. The proof is the creation
In which case please refer my earlier post. If creation is the proof, then God himself is a creation needing a creator. Isn't it? So there must be a bigger God? and for creating that bigger God there must be even a bigger God and so on...
This forum is for people who have already accepted the Oneness of Allah, almighty and merciful, who neither begets nor is begotten.

Since you have not yet accepted this, I suggest you complete your research first and revisit when you are done. In case your research does not yield results matching ours, please excuse us and take your scholarly opinion on some other welcoming forum.

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#47

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:18 am

progticide wrote: This forum is for people who have already accepted the Oneness of Allah, almighty and merciful, who neither begets nor is begotten.

Since you have not yet accepted this, I suggest you complete your research first and revisit when you are done. In case your research does not yield results matching ours, please excuse us and take your scholarly opinion on some other welcoming forum.
Sir, who told you that I have not accepted the Oneness of Allah? Did I say so? If not then please don't presume anything before getting to the facts. In case you are deducing so from my name, please go and read what Agnostic Theism is. I am no less a theist than you are.

I am not researching anything. In case you have not noticed, I am just asking questions! Please see the punctuation marks after each of my statement carefully. Did I ever state that there is no Allah?

I know what this forum is for (more than you). Have I started this topic? Again, please see who created this thread and asked for opinions. Have I posted anything objectionable or off topic on any of the other threads? Am I poking my nose with agnostic opinions in all the threads on this forum? Now you need to do some research! Come and talk to me when you are done doing that.

You are the one who is going off topic for this particular thread. If you had so much issue with this topic, why didn't you raise the objection when your dear friend started this topic? Why is this topic on this forum in the first place?

Lastly, take a note of my language and tone. I expect a civilized reply! And if that is not possible, then do not reply.

Thanks.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Random...

#48

Unread post by progticide » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:52 am

Agnostic,

Teri zara si chutki li toh tu bachche ki tarah rone lag gaya. Chal koi nahi, aansoon pohnch ley. Aage abhi bahut ungli karne waale behthe he.

BTW, if you thought you were here on this forum so that you can participate in some intellectual exchanges, you were never more wrong in your life. If you ever watched WWF Rumble in the Ring, you would definitely find resemblance to that on this forum.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Random...

#49

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:59 am

Hi Adam / Progiticide


What is your public opinion on question expressed here….


What exactly is the objection / apprehension with providing Accounts of Funds ?


By what justification / logic / reason…. presenting accounts is to undermine authority of sayedna saheb ?

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Random...

#50

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:07 am

I like to stick to the topic as much as possible.

So brother progticide, do you have any reply to the questions I raised regarding the creation and the creator? It is perfectly fine if you don't have any reply/answer. Neither do I have nor most of the people in this world.

Please try to give an on-topic reply this time (if possible).

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Random...

#51

Unread post by progticide » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:42 am

GAYA SHAITAN MARA EK SAJDE KE NA KARNE SE
AGAR LAKHON BARAS SAJDE MEIN SAR MARA TO KYA MARA