Proof that Dai is Greater than Imam and Allah!!

[stranger]

Stranger Bhai,HB Bhai and MMV
I respect your comments but I have one question, does folding hands or bending down is a respect or is it ghulami? do not people in India-Pakistan and midde east do the same to the ministers or the rulers of the kingdom. in democratic world like india it is respect you give to the seat of authority and not the person. Progticide Bhai and Adam bhai describe very well about the rutba of a Dai and his appointed aamils, we are not folding our hand and bowing down to a person but to the authority which came to that person thru shafiq bawa TUS and syedi wa maulai muffadal bs TUS and they are appointed by Imam U Zaman i have seen pictures when president bush of america bowed down to saudi king, the most powerful man is bowing down and i think that was out of respect and not ghulami
adam bhai, progticide and profstian bhai can talk more about it. I had been on this board long time ago and did not participate very actively but now i have more time and i read, the only thing i do not like is the bad words used by few people.

Bro Abde53,
you are so preoccupied with your own decisions and assumptions that you did not even bother to paid attention to the words of Moula Ali (A.S.). If you would have then No further argument and reasons were required further.
anyway,
Folding hands and bending down to feet in respect, is a Hindu Tradition. Remember, we are instructed in our deeni madarsas that do not bend or fold in front of your English school's teachers on teachers day and children day or any occasion because Islam does not allows it, thats why we were not suppose to touch the feet of our teachers irrespective of he is Hindu or Muslim because Islam does not allows it ( as per deeni taalim )?
and when it comes to Bohra authorities, Suddenly Islams started allowing everything ?
However still considering respect given to the authority, OK fine.. Then it should be just a minor greeting & Over...
I myself, at times do Namaste to parents of my NON Muslims friends when i visit their home. The intention here is to give respect in the way they understand..Because If i do Salaam to a Hindu aunti and Namaste to a Muslim uncle (provided we knew well that we both are Muslim ) then I m sure it would look absurd. right ?
But we Bohras don't feel anything absurd within, Everything is right and justified.

Brother,, justifying what you saying encourage inequality and inferiority among people, which is certainly not what Islam teaches and Hence said by MOULA ALI (A.S.) : "It is the worst form of tyranny which can be practiced."

So bro, if you still believe that there is No Harm in doing so then go ahead but Please Do not complain when any time Aamil ask some ridiculous amount in salaam from you Or snatched you of liberty to even speak Or impose Wajebaat amount against your will or deny you raza of something which is totally fair and your right.

YOU ARE ONE WHO GIVING THE ABSOLUTE POWER OVER YOU...sorry i mean "RESPECT" (as per you). .
THEN BE READY TO BE ON RECEIVING END - SOONER OR LATER.

[abde53]

, but continuing to stand like that is a sign of subservience.

Mustafa bhai and Stranger Bhai
I read your posts very carefully may be you are right but if you read the above post let me ask you if you have been to any court and when judge enters the court, everyone stands up and no one seats till judge or his assistant tells everyone to be seated.
in india when you go to regular school, when teacher enters, all the students stand up and remain standing till teacher tell us
our shafiq bawa TUS is our teacher so what is wrong in remain standing with folded hands till he or any raza na saheb because he represents our shafiq bawa TUS as sign of respect.

[abde53]

Haris-ibne-Shohail, one of the governors of the provinces, was in Kufa, once he was riding through the city and saw Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) also riding. He got down from his horse to accompany Amir al-Muminin, Imam Ali (as) on foot. Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali (as) stopped his horse and said. "It is ill for a man to lower himself before anybody but his God, please get upon your horse, even had you not been an officer of the state I would not have allowed you to lower yourself like this, the sight of such humiliation of man before man never pleases me. It is the worst form of tyranny which can be practiced."

mmv bhai and all my other brothers
it is obvious that we as muslims have a little bit of perception problem specially people on the other side
the problem I see in above post as well as one put by stranger bhai is that we are trying to compare current people in current time with Maula Ali
at that time, time has changed, yes being the Shia of Maula Ali we should live his simple life, but how many here can tell me that they will give up their a/c and other comforts of life which Maula Ali did not have. we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power
i do agree that sometime our aamils and raza na saheb do get carried over and i for one does not agree but again "samaaj maa rehvu chey" who am i to confront them i do the best i can to comply.

[Humsafar]

What's with all this "bhai this" and 'bhai that" business? Any more of this cloying sweetness and I might get diabetes.
The "respect" is a small component in the act of bowing down. For the most part the whole action symbolises the power relations of a feudal setup. The serfs scraping and bowing before their lord. Nothing more and nothing less. And the lords want to keep it that way, so that the serfs don't forget their lowly status and never fail to recognise where power and authority belongs. All the talk of respect, knowledge and elders is so much gobsmacking crap to keep the serfs in their place. Don't believe a word of it.

[stranger]

mmv bhai and all my other brothers
it is obvious that we as muslims have a little bit of perception problem specially people on the other side
the problem I see in above post as well as one put by stranger bhai is that we are trying to compare current people in current time with Maula Ali
at that time, time has changed, yes being the Shia of Maula Ali we should live his simple life, but how many here can tell me that they will give up their a/c and other comforts of life which Maula Ali did not have. we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power
i do agree that sometime our aamils and raza na saheb do get carried over and i for one does not agree but again "samaaj maa rehvu chey" who am i to confront them i do the best i can to comply.

Brother, see how conveniently we have mould overself.

when it comes to collect wajebat - "We r asked to give to authority only & made to understand the concept from prophet- wasi-imam-da'i." : Time does not changes then ?
when it comes to obtain razaa - "We are asked follow it and made to understand the concept from prophet- wasi-imam-da'i." : Time does not changes then ?
&
when it comes to demanding a lavish and pompous life style - " we provide justification that time has been changed now".
when it comes to keep folding hand and asked to bend down to someone- "we provide justification that time has been changed now".

[SBM]

Abde 53
You surely represent your true ID of abde. Br. Stranger is right on target that our leaders are doing " CHADTE SURAJ KI PUJA"
their motto is "Do what we tell you not what we do"
I wonder if progti and profas as well as Adam agree with your position . Nalwala has clarified his position regarding corruption-big najwas and pompous ceremony but progti, profst, adam and murtaza vd wala have not come clean
so the question for abde 53 and other regressive is if we have to change with time, what is your position on Gay/Lesbian issues, would you consider that to be human right violations as per some government position or take stand on what Islam teaches?

[Fateh]

Haris-ibne-Shohail, one of the governors of the provinces, was in Kufa, once he was riding through the city and saw Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) also riding. He got down from his horse to accompany Amir al-Muminin, Imam Ali (as) on foot. Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali (as) stopped his horse and said. "It is ill for a man to lower himself before anybody but his God, please get upon your horse, even had you not been an officer of the state I would not have allowed you to lower yourself like this, the sight of such humiliation of man before man never pleases me. It is the worst form of tyranny which can be practiced."

mmv bhai and all my other brothers
it is obvious that we as muslims have a little bit of perception problem specially people on the other side
the problem I see in above post as well as one put by stranger bhai is that we are trying to compare current people in current time with Maula Ali
at that time, time has changed, yes being the Shia of Maula Ali we should live his simple life, but how many here can tell me that they will give up their a/c and other comforts of life which Maula Ali did not have. we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power
i do agree that sometime our aamils and raza na saheb do get carried over and i for one does not agree but again "samaaj maa rehvu chey" who am i to confront them i do the best i can to comply.

Then why this quote is quoted LIVE LIKE ALI DIE LIKE HUSSAIN.?Please throw some light

[mmv]

Haris-ibne-Shohail, one of the governors of the provinces, was in Kufa, once he was riding through the city and saw Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) also riding. He got down from his horse to accompany Amir al-Muminin, Imam Ali (as) on foot. Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali (as) stopped his horse and said. "It is ill for a man to lower himself before anybody but his God, please get upon your horse, even had you not been an officer of the state I would not have allowed you to lower yourself like this, the sight of such humiliation of man before man never pleases me. It is the worst form of tyranny which can be practiced."

mmv bhai and all my other brothers
it is obvious that we as muslims have a little bit of perception problem specially people on the other side
the problem I see in above post as well as one put by stranger bhai is that we are trying to compare current people in current time with Maula Ali
at that time, time has changed, yes being the Shia of Maula Ali we should live his simple life, but how many here can tell me that they will give up their a/c and other comforts of life which Maula Ali did not have. we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power
i do agree that sometime our aamils and raza na saheb do get carried over and i for one does not agree but again "samaaj maa rehvu chey" who am i to confront them i do the best i can to comply.

Maula Ali's life and it's conduct teaches us how to live life in this world, that's why " live like Ali ". Now see this
Why need to sit down like this with folded Hand. Why Can't the mumeen be instructed to get up and talk to Qusai Bhai Saheb with out folding hand..

[Fateh]

mmv bhai and all my other brothers
it is obvious that we as muslims have a little bit of perception problem specially people on the other side
the problem I see in above post as well as one put by stranger bhai is that we are trying to compare current people in current time with Maula Ali
at that time, time has changed, yes being the Shia of Maula Ali we should live his simple life, but how many here can tell me that they will give up their a/c and other comforts of life which Maula Ali did not have. we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power
i do agree that sometime our aamils and raza na saheb do get carried over and i for one does not agree but again "samaaj maa rehvu chey" who am i to confront them i do the best i can to comply.

Maula Ali's life and it's conduct teaches us how to live life in this world, that's why " live like Ali ". Now see this
Why need to sit down like this with folded Hand. Why Can't the mumeen be instructed to get up and talk to Qusai Bhai Saheb with out folding hand..

Yes i agree with you mmv why one should degrade himself like this?Hum sab khuda ke bande hai no one is slave of any human, prostrate only almighty ALLAH.

[Kaka Akela]

This condescending treatment of momeneen by the zadaas, and qasr e aali and bait e zaini and picked up by all aamils was picked up or learned by these people from British Raj. When they left the kothar inherited this superemacy immediately as the Indian were already used to cowering in front of British. To get rid of this domination people will have to break the chains of bondage, this can only be done when people revolt and say we have had enough of this nonsense. Victimised rats wanted to tie a bell around the neck of a cat, so they will hear her coming and scram, Everyone agreed it was an excellent idea but a dumb rat like me asked " but who will tie this bell "???
Same question here that needs to be answered.

[MurtazaVds]

bhai nalwala and bhai abde53
thats an healthy discussion

u both are right at ur place (as i think)

but bhai nalwala when teacher and judge do not permit us untill and unless do not sit
and bending an folding hands in front of HUZURALA TUS is just sign of respect and HUZURALA TUS dosn't told us that u should always in dat position when ur infront of him.. Dats we r in that position showing our love and respect to HUZURALA TUS..
Dat is discussed in other thread too

[MurtazaVds]

[quote="mustafanalwalla"
who believe that the Dai is extremely, EXTREMELY important in our lives, but He is not greater than Allah. I will not say about the Imam because i am not qualified enough to make that comparison.[/quote]

true
mustafa bhai we all abdes knows dat

MOULA is extremely important and essential part of our life
Dai is apointed by the Imam and Imam by ALLAH
and first of all we pray the Namaz for ALLAH and after that Farizat Namaz we pray the 2 rakat namaz for our DAI(NAMAZ is prayed in front of ALLAH asking him for good health of HUZURALA TUS) .. So dis clarifies that 1st is ALLAH and after that IMAM and DAI

[stranger]

Murtaza,
How many times you have folded hands in front of your parents to show your love and respect like you do to Aamils and higher authorities from kothar ?

Students waits for teachers permission to sit - out of fear, little to do with respect. Fear is the driving factor.
Same hold true for Aamils and company. Its just that we have found a pretty safe excuse of love and respect to hide our frustration and helplessness by saying so. Deep inside, we know that we don't have any option but to do so, Choice is not there. You talking about love, I assure you majority ( except chamchaas ) hates Aamils for their authoritarian attitude.
Who we are fooling, ourself ?
Respect is a mutual act my dear but we respects and they insults.

Aren't we are the children of our Shafiq Bawa too ? To hurt, insult and exploit any mumeen means to hurt our Moula.
why don't appointed authority think this even once before doing so ? why only a common bohra is liable to show love and respect to Da'i by his action and behaviour ? Do men in power don't have any responsibility towards Da'i ?

[stranger]

we can not compare our current life style with the life lived by Maula Ali and Imam Hussain.in current environment the world respects you if you show power.

Brother,
Then we should Stop remembering Imam Hussain and Stop doing maatam in current time ( in every wa'az, majlis and after farad prayer) , for what he did and teached us hundreds years ago : He did not succumb to the Power.

[abde53]

to all my brothers
i am unable to understand all these fuss about respect to our Dai and shafiq bawa TUS and his appointed aamils, the pictures you see is of shezaadas and who knows one day he may be our Dai, what do you want our dai and his shezaadas to do ,live in dharavi in jhopatpaati and act like commoner
our shafiq bawa TUS is regarded in high position like Ambanis who bowed down to him, his power and environment impressed ambanis and other to give that respect
we talk about our dai not spreading islam that is not true. how many hindus and others have come and greeted our shafiq bawa TUS and said that is ambassador of peace, do they same about other leaders in muslim community
i am shocked that mustafa bhai complained about bending down to an aami after all aamil is the representative of moula, you are not bending down with folded hand to an aamil but to our shafiq bawa TUS thru him
stranger bhai
we remembers Moula Ali for his shujaat (la ila illa la saif ul zulfiqar) and Imam Hussain for his shaadat, please tell me when did anyone said in their waiz either our shafiq bawa TUS or syedi wa Maouli Muffada bs TUS or their aamils that we have to go back and live simple life like moula Ali and Imam Hussain, if that was the case why would our moula would consider the bhindi bazar upliftment project, he does not want us mumineen to live in jhoopatpaadti and cramped houses but a better life, he wants to make sure that all the mumineens are fed and that is why he started muwaid scheme,
yes i do agree that some of his appointed aamils may give bad name but if you have a large organizations there are always few bad people and that is not his fault, at his age of 101 years how many leaders can say that they are keeping the safina of dawat flourishing and float.

[abde53]

Then why this quote is quoted LIVE LIKE ALI DIE LIKE HUSSAIN.?Please throw some light

fateh bhai
this quote is live like Ali is not for his life style but for his Shujaat (la illa ali yun la saif ul zulfiqar) live like Ali is live with bravery and not be a coward or pussy cat now for Imam Hussain, is not in Islamm if you die a shaheed, you are guarenteed Jannat and that is what is means, die like Hussain to give your life to save Islam or jihad

[Humsafar]

Then why this quote is quoted LIVE LIKE ALI DIE LIKE HUSSAIN.?Please throw some light

fateh bhai
this quote is live like Ali is not for his life style but for his Shujaat (la illa ali yun la saif ul zulfiqar) live like Ali is live with bravery and not be a coward or pussy cat now for Imam Hussain, is not in Islamm if you die a shaheed, you are guarenteed Jannat and that is what is means, die like Hussain to give your life to save Islam or jihad

And of course the abdes are the paragons of bravery and courage!!! Aren't you guys ashamed of yoursleves, on one hand you bow and grovel before a zada and shamelessly justify that behaviour, and on other hand talk of bravery and courage. What is wrong with you people?

[MurtazaVds]

Check out who is saying about bravery and courage
nt have a lil bit of courage to show there real identity and talking about bravery and courage

What is wrong with you people?

Yea right what is wrong with you progiess

[anajmi]

Murtuza with VDs,

Showing your true identity on this board has nothing to do with bravery and courage. Let me give you an example that you won't understand. If I tell you that I am not afraid of death, and you ask me to prove it by committing suicide, will I be a coward if I choose not to give you that proof or stupid if I choose to give you that proof?

[stranger]

Check out who is saying about bravery and courage
nt have a lil bit of courage to show there real identity and talking about bravery and courage
Yea right what is wrong with you progiess

Vds,
I have asked one question wrt your above query under thread : identity, but neither you Nor Shabbir4u came back to me ?
Can you go thru it again and Reply us there !

Thanks.

[MurtazaVds]

Stranger tell me just single thing
whnever you go in hazrat of Huzurala Tus who tells u just bend down or sit on ur nees and fold u hand for that much time ur infront of Huzurala Tus or aamil .. Respect have to be shown by u nly if u wanna u can continue or not dats your wish

and talking about aamil they are just appointed by Huzurala Tus

u are talking about the teacher's respect ..
Whenever the teacher enter in the classroom some of the student give respect and some do not... and those who do not gave respect are well known as the backbanchers.. Same condition is with abdes and proggies

[Humsafar]

Check out who is saying about bravery and courage
nt have a lil bit of courage to show there real identity and talking about bravery and courage

What is wrong with you people?

Yea right what is wrong with you progiess

I was talking about the courage and bravery needed to stand up to your oppressors. But wait, first you need some sense to recognise your oppressor. About my real identity, you want the imam to come out of hiding, already?

[MurtazaVds]

stand up to your oppressors or any stand with ur real identity is one form of courage and bravery
but u did not satisfy dat much only

laayen cannot be compaired with Imam

[anajmi]

stand up to your oppressors or any stand with ur real identity is one form of courage and bravery

That would mean that your Imam in hiding is a coward!!

[abde53]

stand up to your oppressors or any stand with ur real identity is one form of courage and bravery

That would mean that your Imam in hiding is a coward!!

No Anajmi Bhai, he is not coward, he is in satr because there is Hikkmat which we do not know Remember Surah Al Kahf in which Jibreel told Noah nabi about the things why he was doing, it is some times difficult for us to understand, you may not agree but for us the believers in Dai we know that Imam being in Satr has Hikkmat in it.

[Hussain_KSA]

That would mean that your Imam in hiding is a coward!!

No Anajmi Bhai, he is not coward, he is in satr because there is Hikkmat which we do not know Remember Surah Al Kahf in which Jibreel told Noah nabi about the things why he was doing, it is some times difficult for us to understand, you may not agree but for us the believers in Dai we know that Imam being in Satr has Hikkmat in it.

Abde 53

I was avoiding to get involved in thread you are contributing, but you are really an stupid abde. Did you really read the Sura e khaf. The story was about khidr and Moosa. Dont write anything and keep repeating the things.

[SBM]

That would mean that your Imam in hiding is a coward!!

No Anajmi Bhai, he is not coward, he is in satr because there is Hikkmat which we do not know Remember Surah Al Kahf in which Jibreel told Noah nabi about the things why he was doing, it is some times difficult for us to understand, you may not agree but for us the believers in Dai we know that Imam being in Satr has Hikkmat in it.

Abde 53
You joined this forum in 2003 and then it seems you went in SATR and now reappeared again, I would have wished that adding more years to your life you would become more intelligent and smart and learn to free yourself from Slavery (abde), In your case, it seems you were locked in a room with some Zaada to impart the knowledge of abdesim. Please open your eyes and see what is our community (yes I am still sabeel paying e jamaat card member not eating Phokat nu jaman) there is nothing but Salgirahs and Urus and Darees and Ziyafaats and more Ziyafats. Check Malik Ul Chuster's itinerary in last few months he has been traveling all over the world just to attend Ziyafaats or look at other Zaadas and see what are they doing while Syedna despite being his serious health problem is doing more Ziyafats and Mushafiyats and same is true for Mansoos.
You only mentioned about one incident under Moula's Ehsan and Karam about emergency training and please tell me how many commoners benefited from that, believe me those kinds of exercises are provided to every person in Western Countries free of Charge. I am a volunteer with Department of Health's first response team for those kind of incidents and I attend regular exercises free of charge and I do get a thank you note from our elected officials too. so nothing special
So abde53, please open your eyes and let us have frank discussion instead of these phooney balooney showman ship.

[SBM]

Abde 53
I was avoiding to get involved in thread you are contributing, but you are really an stupid abde. Did you really read the Sura e khaf. The story was about khidr and Moosa. Dont write anything and keep repeating the things.
Hussain_KSA

Br Hussain
It is not their fault if they do not know the difference between Moosa AS and Noah AS or between Jibreel and Khidr, When was the last time this kind of information was discussed in the any Majlis, Of Course die hard regressive will tell you that you would learn if you attend Sabaks. The only thing poor abde53 knows is how to bend and how to fold hands anything else is above and beyond their comprehension
One good thing by coming on this forum at least he learned some thing useful and thank you for correcting his limited knowledge

[abde53]

Hussain bhai and sbm bhai
my mistake that i quoted the wrong names in surat al kahf but what i was trying to say that there are hikmats why imam is in Satr may be
Adam bhai or progticide bhai can answer.
and yes SBM bhai you are right I am learning something here. I just hope that some of the progressive opposition stop abusing our shafiq bawa TUS
and Syedi wa maulai Muffadal BS TUS

[Hussain_KSA]

Hussain bhai and sbm bhai
my mistake that i quoted the wrong names in surat al kahf but what i was trying to say that there are hikmats why imam is in Satr may be
Adam bhai or progticide bhai can answer.
and yes SBM bhai you are right I am learning something here. I just hope that some of the progressive opposition stop abusing our shafiq bawa TUS
and Syedi wa maulai Muffadal BS TUS

Oh Abde53

You are really very nice guy.

Friends?