So, who's right? ;)

[Adam]

I guess no one claims to be right?
Everyones confused?
(Except the Wahabis of cource, they're super confident :p)

[anajmi]

(Except the Wahabis of cource, they're super confident :p)

Which should convince everyone, other than abde idiots, as to which way is the best way. It is the way of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw)!!

[Adam]

It will be interesting to here from the "opposition" about this. If they have the courage to speak up.

Anajmi, since you've given up (or should give up) on the Abdes, (they are the worst people according to you).
You should now use this forum and focus all your time, efforts and intelligence to convert the following people (and others of the opposition) to your Wahabi beliefs
S. Insaf
gulam mohammed
human
humanbeing
Porus
Al Zulfiqar

Just try even one person :p
You have my blessings

[anajmi]

Hasn't your Ahl Al Zikr taught you that according to the Quran, hidaya is only in the hands of Allah? Even the prophet (saw) was told in the Quran that his duty was simply to deliver the message and faith was in the hands of Allah. Therefore, I am not going to focus my energies in converting anyone. I only focus my energies in trying to show what is right (Quran and Sunnah) and what is wrong (Dai Idol Worship) with the help of Allah inshallah.

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

i will tell you what is right.

the dai is greater than allah, the nabi mohamed and all nabi's before him, and he is greater than any imam that ever lived and is still living.

satisfied?

[Adam]

Hasn't your Ahl Al Zikr taught you that according to the Quran, hidaya is only in the hands of Allah? Even the prophet (saw) was told in the Quran that his duty was simply to deliver the message and faith was in the hands of Allah.

Yes, that is correct, which is why I don't understand why you are "incorrectly" commenting on others beliefs. Let them be in the hands of Allah. You don't need to worry about it.
P.S your Wahabi friends don't believe the above, that's why they love "Tableegh"

I only focus my energies in trying to show what is right (Quran and Sunnah) and what is wrong (Dai Idol Worship) with the help of Allah inshallah.

You are doing exactly what you are saying you shouldn't do above.

Anyways, we already knew that you think "Dai worship" is wrong.
But why don't you also add to your list that:

S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar - All share Shia beliefs. Which according to your is also wrong.
They all supposedly believe in Qabrs and Ziyarat - Why don't you discuss all that with them?
They all supposedly believe in the Imamat - Why don't you discuss all that with them?

Right from the beginning that's all i've been saying. "Suppose" the Abdes are wrong.
Who's right then?
S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar ????

You should now use this forum and focus all your time, efforts and intelligence to convert the following people (and others of the opposition) to your Wahabi beliefs
S. Insaf
gulam mohammed
human
humanbeing
Porus
Al Zulfiqar

Just try even one person :p
You have my blessings

[Adam]

Zulfi

adam,
i will tell you what is right.
the dai is greater than allah, the nabi mohamed and all nabi's before him, and he is greater than any imam that ever lived and is still living.
satisfied?

Well, according to me that is wrong.
But if your idiotic mind think that that is Right, thus the fact that you don't follow that, makes you WRONG.
Correct?
If not, then clarify.

[anajmi]

Yes, that is correct, which is why I don't understand why you are "incorrectly" commenting on others beliefs. Let them be in the hands of Allah. You don't need to worry about it.
P.S your Wahabi friends don't believe the above, that's why they love "Tableegh"

You are doing what you normally do with the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). You are quoting only a part of the text and hence twisting its meaning. Here is my complete post

Hasn't your Ahl Al Zikr taught you that according to the Quran, hidaya is only in the hands of Allah? Even the prophet (saw) was told in the Quran that his duty was simply to deliver the message and faith was in the hands of Allah. Therefore, I am not going to focus my energies in converting anyone. I only focus my energies in trying to show what is right (Quran and Sunnah) and what is wrong (Dai Idol Worship) with the help of Allah inshallah.

It is the duty of every muslim to spread the truth and show the falsehood. Which is what I am doing. I am showing you the falshood of your Dai. But you will never follow the truth unless Allah gives you hidaya. But that doesn't mean I have to stop my work. See, your understanding of Islam is just as confused as that of your Dai. He has stopped Dawah and started shirk. I will pray to Allah to guide you, or at least prevent others from being misguided by people like you.

[Adam]

And I pray to Allah that people stop being misguided by annoying Wahabis like you.

Now, back to the thread, my famous question. Who's right?
Anajmi or "The Wahabi" Al Zulfiqar "The wannabe confused Proggy"?

Right from the beginning that's all i've been saying. "Suppose" the Abdes are wrong.
Who's right then?
S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar ????

[anajmi]

Anyone who follows the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) is right. Anyone who does sajda to another human being is a mushrik.

[Adam]

Well according to you there's more to Shirk than just Sajda:
Which S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar all SHARE:
To name a few:
1. Celebrating Prophets Birthday
2. Graves and Ziyarat
3. Believing in the Panjatan after the Prophet and that they will give salvation
4. Believing in the Imam az Zaman

So, now who's right?
Just say they are all wrong, and maybe we can end this convo :p

[anajmi]

Well according to you there's more to Shirk than just Sajda:

Not really. You do sajda to someone else and you become a mushrik. You do not need to create a circus on birthdays.

1. Celebrating Prophets Birthday - Circus on his birthday is bida
2. Graves and Ziyarat - Bohras do sajda to graves. - Shirk
3. Believing in the Panjatan after the Prophet and that they will give salvation - No one can give salvation but Allah. If you believe that then it is shirk.
4. Believing in the Imam az Zaman - The same one who is going to be identified by the Dai? A myth!!

[Adam]

Exactly my point.
All these four things S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar (and Abdes) all SHARE:
To name a few:
1. Celebrating Prophets Birthday
2. Graves and Ziyarat
3. Believing in the Panjatan after the Prophet and that they will give salvation and Shia beliefs
4. Believing in the Imam az Zaman

So, now who's right?
Just say they are all wrong along with the Abdes, and maybe we can end this convo :p
Too scared to face them?

[anajmi]

Just say they are all wrong along with the Abdes,

No. Only the abde idiots are wrong because they are mushriks who have associated partners with Allah. Its a sad story indeed.

[profastian]

Just say they are all wrong along with the Abdes,

No. Only the abde idiots are wrong because they are mushriks who have associated partners with Allah. Its a sad story indeed.

This is so pathetic. Any psychiatrist worth his salt will declare this guy as obsessive and sick. Anajmi, there must be some deep emotional issue you must probe into to cure yourself, Seek counseling immediately your sake.

[humanbeing]

Exactly my point.
All these four things S. Insaf, gulam mohammed, human, humanbeing, Porus , Al Zulfiqar (and Abdes) all SHARE:
To name a few:
1. Celebrating Prophets Birthday
2. Graves and Ziyarat
3. Believing in the Panjatan after the Prophet and that they will give salvation and Shia beliefs
4. Believing in the Imam az Zaman

Hi Adam

I would like to share my POV on practices you have mentioned here.

Celebrating Prophet’s or Anyone’s birthday : Remembering and celebrating birthday of people we love, respect and inspire is acceptable. However it’s a celebration which shall be done in the limits and moderation of austerity more to say under Islamic principles. Expression of love and allegiance (walayat) is more out of deeds, rather than wordly show baazi. Be it sayedna’s birthday, Prophet’s birthday or our loved ones birthday, we shall practice austerity, not because we are rich or poor, the occasion itself presents a joyous mood and happy mental state, which is far more effective then creating band baja, processions, noisy celebratory parties. From last few years, I have seen the main event of sayedna saheb’s birthday; majaalis is loud, noisy cacophony of shouting and yelling crowd, blowing horns and throwing graffiti in masjids and markaz (a personal experience, no generalization).

With regards to Prophet’s birthday, even some muslims have made it a circus in India, by piling up loud speakers on public space, blaring loud nohas sung in praise of Prophet Muhammad and tying green bands on the forehead with carrying swords shouting “naara-e-takbeer”. However I have come across many muslim families, who have celebrated prophet’s birthday by making a sweet dish and distributing to neighbours, relatives and feeding poor streetside children / people. So we see different kind of people, celebrating in different syles. What makes the difference is, when celebration of one shall not become inconvenience of another. Prophet would be far more happy to see his birthday being celebrated in such fashion rather than loud pompous declarations.

Graves and Ziyarat : Intention of the practice makes the difference between worshipping and commemorating. I have no right to generalize my POV or observation on the intention of all people, but in my limited experience, when I have interacted and mini researched about opinion and intention of doing Ziyarat of saheb resting in the grave, I have heard responses which are not in sync with Islamic principles.

Observation of Ziyarat ritual is obviously surprising as intense kissing of the turbat, sajdas (misdirected from kibla), kissing of stairs, doors and walls of Mausoleum.

We cannot generalize opinion of few on all, however what is alarming, that being closely held and monitored bohra community members form an opinion / intention of doing ziyarat as ibaadat and such opinion are not corrected by the leaders, infact promoted to form such opinions.

Believing in the Panjatan after the Prophet and that they will give salvation : Belief in prophet Muhammad and further on panjatan is not an exclusive Shia belief, but a basic belief in muslim ummah: Shia and Sunni (I have no authentic knowledge on wahabi philosophies).

What prophet preached remains constant for entire muslims ummah, how can a word of good advise defer between followers of same faith. We need to understand difference between belief and worshipping here too. Belief is trust in one’s word by independent sense of reasoning and acceptance. A belief is developed, not given. Anyone who follows, Quran, Sunnah of prophet Muhammad (further propagated by panjatan) earns his salvation by being a good human being and win allah’s mercy.

Believing in the Imam az Zaman : It’s a mysterious concept, Imam being a leader of the ummah. Its not an impossible concept to understand or believe. But any belief has to be substantiated. When Allah ordained prophets to spread the message, they did so in presence and not in seclusion. Threat and obstacles faced by chosen prophets were equally / progressively credible as sighted by Imams to justify going into / remaining into seclusion. Its prudent to act as per the situation in response of threat, even prophet hid in the cave on migration to medina. But not over prolonged centuries. A Dai enjoys diplomatic and political influence ensuring safety and freedom of practice in headquartered country (India), so when Dai and Bohra (true shia muslims) are prospering, then there seems no credible threat for Imam to remain in seclusion. Going into seclusion is an emergency threat response in unavoidable circumstances, which shall be lifted at favourable time. In past Dai has created favourable grounds for Imam to appear (Tunisia Example). In matters of faith it is not prudent for a leader to play this hide and seek game with his believers.

[Adam]

Anajmi is a coward.
He can't face to tell the other people they are wrong.
Or doesn't sum up the courage to say he is right (which indirectly makes everyone other than him (Porus, Zuli, Insaf, Gulam etc wrong).

[anajmi]

Anajmi is a coward.
He can't face to tell the other people they are wrong.

Let me prove you wrong.

Adam, you are completely wrong.

[Adam]

Pure cowardice.
I've already said that you consider me wrong.
Let's move on now.
If YOU consider yourself right, then that just makes people ((Porus, Zuli, Insaf, Gulam, Humsafar, Humanbeing, SBM). who don't follow your Wahabi interpretation WRONG.
Is that correct?

[ghulam muhammed]

Has anajmi ever claimed that he is a wahabi just like how you claim to be a diehard abde ?

[porus]

Adam,

According to me, anajmi is right some times and he is wrong at some other times.

According to anajmi, porus is right some times and he is wrong at some other times.

According to non-abdes, other non-abdes are right some times and they are wrong at some other times.

As far as abdes are concerned, all abdes are right at all times.

[anajmi]

porus has said it very well. I want to add a little twist to it.

All of us (excluding abde idiots) are right some times and wrong at other times (abde idiots being wrong at all times).

But the one thing that we all agree on is that the Dai is taking the abde idiots for a ride. This common point alone gives me hope that we are at least closer to the right path than the abde idiots. So, we may never be a 100% right, wahhabis have their own flaws, scientists have their own, but to unanimously recognize the corruption of Islam by the Dai is a big step in the right direction.

[Al Zulfiqar]

But the one thing that we all agree on is that the Dai is taking the abde idiots for a ride.

getting more people aware of the dai and his family's excesses, that is what this forum is all about. the abde idiots like adam, insecticide, nalwala, profastian etc keep attempting to silence these dissenting voices and sow discord in their midst, none of which is happening or will ever happen. what is wrong, unislamic, unethical, immoral, tyrannical and illegal, will remain wrong, no matter how hard and loud they bark and howl.

[Adam]

Has anajmi ever claimed that he is a wahabi just like how you claim to be a diehard abde ?

No he hasn't, but his conveying of beliefs surely reflect that. If he isn't, i'd request him to clarify it.

As far as abdes are concerned, all abdes are right at all times.

Correct.
As mentioned in the Quran, you're either right or wrong.
We Abdes consider our beliefs right and others wrong.
But, its also interesting to know that others on the Forum are all against Abde beliefs and consider it wrong. So the simple question to them.
Do they think their religious beliefs are correct? If they are, please state so. If they aren't, well I guess you've figured out the problem. You've clearly mentioned youre beliefs have mistakes. You admitting it yourself shows there's something wrong with the side your on.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Do they think their religious beliefs are correct?

YES

[anajmi]

Do they think their religious beliefs are correct?

Of course not. The people that you are talking about are all bohras who developed some sense. They realized their religious beliefs (dawoodi bohraism) is incorrect. So obviously their religious beliefs are incorrect (dawoodi bohraism)!!

You've clearly mentioned youre beliefs have mistakes.

Correct. All of us have clearly mentioned that our beliefs taught to us by our parents and other kothari minions have major mistakes.

You admitting it yourself shows there's something wrong with the side your on.

Obviously. We are all bohras. We realize that there is something wrong with the side we were on.

[profastian]

Do they think their religious beliefs are correct?

Of course not. The people that you are talking about are all bohras who developed some sense. They realized their religious beliefs (dawoodi bohraism) is incorrect. So obviously their religious beliefs are incorrect (dawoodi bohraism)!!

You've clearly mentioned youre beliefs have mistakes.

Correct. All of us have clearly mentioned that our beliefs taught to us by our parents and other kothari minions have major mistakes.

You admitting it yourself shows there's something wrong with the side your on.

Obviously. We are all bohras. We realize that there is something wrong with the side we were on.

And now he is a bohra
He changes affiliations by the day

[humanbeing]

Well !! Anajmi is a born bohra (he is lucky without choice), you can take a wahabi out of a bohra, but not a bohra out of a wahaabi

Chak de fatte, chak de galli !! Thoko Taaali !!

[Adam]

Al Zulfiqar

Do they think their religious beliefs are correct?

That question was to Anajmi, but since you answered with a bold "Yes". By you saying that, also makes anajmi wrong.
Because Anajmi believes in Wahabism and you don't.
Please confirm.

Correct. All of us have clearly mentioned that our beliefs taught to us by our parents and other kothari minions have major mistakes.

Yes, a million times. Forget about the "Bohra" past. Talk about the present.
Are your Wahabi beliefs (or whatever it is you believe in "Correct") ? Or do you still have your doubts as to what is right and what isn't in accordance to you Wahabi faith?

Obviously. We are all bohras. We realize that there is something wrong with the side we were on.

WHAT?!
I'm just as confused as Profastian.
Changing your colours again and again. Stick to one story
Are you a Bohra or a Wahabi?

[SBM]

Are you a Bohra or a Wahabi?

See Adam Wahabi has many common letters as in Bohra Out of five letters in Bohra 3 are common in Wahabi so Bohras are also wahabi
before you say it is childish that is what Syedna and other Goons during their Waiz always try to put analogy of Islam, Mohammed, Panjatan and every thing else to equate with Daisism and being a true Abde Regressive. I did learn something from those waiz and Majlis