only ten guys have problem?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

only ten guys have problem?

#1

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:14 am

seems just max 10 bohra guys have problem with huzurala(tus)? if not then why not more then 10 people posting on this forum?

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#2

Unread post by asad » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:54 am

by the same yard stick only 3 people believe in Syedna and in which one doubts few things.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#3

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:31 am

Ar, you are under estimating, you may observe 10 vocal and visible, who represent the thoughts of thousands of silent disgruntled passive disappointed ortho and progs, not in my definition ortho are not abdes.

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#4

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:10 am

asad wrote:by the same yard stick only 3 people believe in Syedna and in which one doubts few things.
what I mean is, if people were really frustrated and had problems they would have come here and post,coz this forum is anonymous...but as we can see, there are hardly 10 posters....

bohri
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#5

Unread post by bohri » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:20 am

Majority belief does not mean anything as you all know. History is abound with examples eg majority pre-islamic believers, majority opposition to Imam Hussein, majority german followers during nazi regimes, majority sunnis vs. shias etc. etc. At one point in time, majority also believed that slavery was an ok practice!

I would be extremely surprised if today most DBs - progressive or otherwise - do not flinch at the grotesques images of the modi /kothari alliances, of grown men bending over double in the presence of the so called princes many of them half their age and of the pictures of god-like worshipping of the Sayedna. No matter in which language you dress it up, it hurts our present day sensibilities in a day and age when we take for granted beliefs in human equality and freedom of rights.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#6

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:31 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:I counted 8 already. And i for one do not doubt my faith, but yes, i do doubt the infallability aspect because i believe that He too, is only a human being with feet of clay
In that case, abdes wont count you in list of believers of Sayedna saheb, there are few threads dedicated on this topic, where abdes have expressed their disgust over those who considers Dai as fallible human being with feet of clay.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#7

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:34 am

Hi MN

I don’t understand your sense of fairness! Anyhow as you mentioned its your personal prerogative, so will leave it there.

However on a related note, during social discussions, I have come across few fanatic abdes who wouldn’t agree to slightest deviation from way to believe in ‘Maula’ in faith and actions.

Some people are not comfortable with joining palms (namaskar) style and yell hysterically to express their heartfelt devotion in presence of sayedna saheb. When shared this POV, fanatics cried about weakness in faith and affection.

Some people are not comfortable with knee kissing (gora chumva) of shehzadas, amils and even sadar sheikhs. If expressed, they are reprimanded or seen with disgust depending on the social status of the person.

Some people don’t like to worship photos of sayedna saheb, if any abde is confused by worshipping photo of sayedna saheb then read this.

Standing in front of the photo with joint palms and asking for worldly favours.

Kissing photo of sayedna saheb in similar fashion way hindus do to the photo of their diety. Extending tip of their fingers to the photo and touching their forehead and lips and chest.

Placing their families photo at the feet of sayedna saheb in the photo.

Invoking name of Sayedna saheb before leaving house for various endeavors (routine, exams, deals, alliance or travelling etc)

People who do Sajda facing photo of sayedna saheb, it has happened in the Masjid and Markaz, whenever there is a relay of waaaz, abdes perform sajda in direction of screen where sayedna image is displaying. This direction is usually in the opposite to Kibla.

When above mentioned practices of worshipping is not done leave alone objected, abdes cry about lack of affection or weak “Imaan”. And is considered strayed until one submits exactly to their (fanatic abdes) instructions of worship / belief / faith etc.

Time and again, people are coerced to keep beard, embarrassed and humiliated in public, even to extent their secular rituals are withheld if one doesn’t submit to their whims. I know dozens of people who are keeping beard to save themselves from embarrassment or ridicule. Whereas guys like me who are blunt are hated.

Now with the famous adage : Not a leaf moves without permission and knowledge of sayedna saheb, this discriminatory practise is happening in knowledge and authority of sayedna saheb, so our faith in Dai may be honest in our hearts, but will be accepted by dai only if one conforms to their exact preachings. And if Dai doesn’t accept one’s faith, then its having no faith at all. (Please correct me if I m wrong in my understanding)

So, your expression of faith in Dai is your honest intent, but your doubt over his infallibility and morever your disagreement over hunting of animals for pleasure disqualify you from having faith at all. I m not saying this. It is so believed by the abdes !! Or Sayedna Saheb himself

You cant pick and choose your points of faith, either you have it .. or you don’t !! I m not saying this .. It is so believed by the abdes !! Or Sayedna Saheb himself

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#8

Unread post by Admin » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:54 am

Stats for dawoodi-bohras.com for the first three months of this year:
Image

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#9

Unread post by think » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:10 am

admin; assuming there are about a million bohris in the world to day; then do your figures reflect that about 10% of them visit this site?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#10

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:28 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:People who do Sajda facing photo of sayedna saheb, it has happened in the Masjid and Markaz, whenever there is a relay of waaaz, abdes perform sajda in direction of screen where sayedna image is displaying. This direction is usually in the opposite to Kibla. THIS IS A LIE. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS HAPPEN IN ANY OF THE MOSQUES THAT I HAVE BEEN TOO
I m very surprised to read this response from you. However. In masjids, screens are placed right before the Qibla, so sajda by default is done in direction to Qibla, Ofcourse intention of sajda is to dedicate to Sayedna sahib, so partly you are correct. But its not a LIE !!

In Kuwait Markaz, screen is not in direction of Qibla, they are randomly placed all over the Markaz, Infact Kuwait Main Markaz is full of giant screens and television spread all over in different directions. Not once, but many many a times I have seen mostly in Muharram people performing sajda in direction of the screen away from Qibla !!

Now A Mumbai Example !!

Next time you visit Raudat Tahera, please observe devotees performing Ziyarat and observe sajdas they do. Also note the direction of Qibla !! I need not go into details of my observation, so I request you may experience yourself.
mustafanalwalla wrote:ALL I KNOW IS THAT THE FAITH IN YOUR HEART IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE FAITH YOU PROFESS
Good One !! Well said !

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#11

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:52 am

Admin wrote:Stats for dawoodi-bohras.com for the first three months of this year:
Image
oh great,thanx for the state, but have u ever wonder why not even 10% of people ever takes part in discussion?

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#12

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:57 am

think wrote:admin; assuming there are about a million bohris in the world to day; then do your figures reflect that about 10% of them visit this site?
forget about how many visits, coz mostly in google people lands over here thinking this is some thing from dawoodi bohra.

important is how many takes part in actual discussion, not even hardly 10?

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#13

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:58 am

if the picture was really that bad, this forum would have been flooded.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#14

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:06 am

AliRahbar wrote:if the picture was really that bad, this forum would have been flooded.
And it is flooded as per the stat reflects, Now again Admin did not have RAZA from a Zaada for you to believe it but if this STAT would have been released by a Ziyafat doing ZAADA you would have accepted without any reservation, no wonder you are known as Abde Regressive

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#15

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:08 am

apart from this transsexual oma bharti which is now SBM, no one from USA has any issue with kothar?

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#16

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:11 am

AliRahbar is back after hibernating as GULP or Gulf welcome Gulf

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#17

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:12 am

AliRahbar wrote:apart from this transsexual oma bharti which is now SBM, no one from USA has any issue with kothar?
I suppose you did not read the comments from member in Atlanta or N Carolina Jamat as well as people from LA Jamat who had posted here

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#18

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:13 am

SBM wrote:
AliRahbar wrote:apart from this transsexual oma bharti which is now SBM, no one from USA has any issue with kothar?
I suppose you did not read the comments from member in Atlanta or N Carolina Jamat as well as people from LA Jamat who had posted here
where they went now? they dont have any problems?

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#19

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:48 pm

think wrote:admin; assuming there are about a million bohris in the world to day; then do your figures reflect that about 10% of them visit this site?
Not really. We need to focus on the "Unique Visitors" (49K) and not the "Visits". Also the stats does not confirm that only Dawoodi Bohras visit this site or for that matter even Muslims.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#20

Unread post by think » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:32 pm

A.R big problems in u.s. and canada jamaats. huge amounts are taken for mosque,but no mosque. L.A. amil was in the red for money laundering and died in hospital in pain and suffering. Tampa amil caught in ponzy scheme, canada amil was barred from entering canada because of ridiculous fatwas and money issues, the list goes on. The only places where kothar cannot run their mafia is in places where communication with locals is a barrier. i.e. madrid, italy, germany ,paris , indonesia, malaysia etc. The amil in burma is a big crook also.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:10 pm

AliRahbar wrote:important is how many takes part in actual discussion, not even hardly 10?
And how many abdes take part in actual discussion on the kothar sponsored sites of malumat, mumineen and zeninfosys ? Actually, does any discussion EVER take place on kothar sponsored sites ??

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#22

Unread post by accountability » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:29 pm

Good job Admin, i would suggest why not put a ticker on home page, so that anyone visiting would automatically know.

As for there are few members who post regularly, it is because most of the main stream bohras who visit this site are afraid to post, because their fear is so strong, that even anonymity will not save them. There are hundered of members who contribute and post. Whenver there is a topic of interest you may witness a flurry of posts. This forum is alive more than ten years, you may notice that there were posts from some one for some time, then it disappears, a new one takes place.

The second and compelling reason why there are so many visitors and less contributors is, it is in our psychy to be submissive and not to question. we have been coerced, intimidated, brainwashed for so long and so much that we have become silent zombies. If you go to an amil, and you are treated unfair, or amil is outright insulting, most probably you will not resist. Two weeks ago I had to go to markaz for something, a guy was standing there for some raza, he went to amil for some discussion, i could hear amil yelling at him but i did not hear his voice, he did not retaliate. By all means amil had no right to yell at anyone, amil(s) keep forgetting that they are paid by sabil, and their lavish life style is due to sabil, and they are in service of dawat. But that person could not remind him that.

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#23

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:52 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
AliRahbar wrote:important is how many takes part in actual discussion, not even hardly 10?
And how many abdes take part in actual discussion on the kothar sponsored sites of malumat, mumineen and zeninfosys ? Actually, does any discussion EVER take place on kothar sponsored sites ??
dawat is perfect,no discussion is required...

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#24

Unread post by Human » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:00 pm

AliRahbar wrote: dawat is perfect,no discussion is required...
So why are you here wasting your valuable time? Go and do matam in majlis and pray 2 raqaat namaaz for haqiqi kaba.

MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#25

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:08 pm

accountability wrote:Good job Admin, i would suggest why not put a ticker on home page, so that anyone visiting would automatically know.

As for there are few members who post regularly, it is because most of the main stream bohras who visit this site are afraid to post, because their fear is so strong, that even anonymity will not save them. There are hundered of members who contribute and post. Whenver there is a topic of interest you may witness a flurry of posts. This forum is alive more than ten years, you may notice that there were posts from some one for some time, then it disappears, a new one takes place.

.
what should we abdes affried of U ..........Some abdes do not reply for u because they know that and we all abdes know that "Bais k aage been bajane se kuch nhi hota"
the person hidding there own identity and saying that he is strong... :mrgreen:

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#26

Unread post by AliRahbar » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:12 pm

Human wrote:
AliRahbar wrote: dawat is perfect,no discussion is required...
So why are you here wasting your valuable time? Go and do matam in majlis and pray 2 raqaat namaaz for haqiqi kaba.
I am here to see how ignorant a man can be......just for time pass nothing more.

Alhumdollilah my matam for Hussain and my namaz is intact, so dont worry about me, worry about your self.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:17 pm

dawat is perfect,no discussion is required...
If that were the case, then this board would've closed down 10 years ago and the Dai wouldn'tve had a bent back and neck. This board is alive and well because the dawat is still in the hands of corrupt goons looting idiots like our newest shaikh chilli.

AliRahbar
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#28

Unread post by AliRahbar » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:12 am

anajmi wrote:
dawat is perfect,no discussion is required...
If that were the case, then this board would've closed down 10 years ago and the Dai wouldn'tve had a bent back and neck. This board is alive and well because the dawat is still in the hands of corrupt goons looting idiots like our newest shaikh chilli.
what it has to do with running this forum? and what it has to do with physical appearance of aged syedna (tus)?

for god sake atleast for once take with some logic.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#29

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:51 am

Ar what rubbish...have you ever realized 1 million people read a newspaper but only 10-20 journalist write articles

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: only ten guys have problem?

#30

Unread post by asad » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:29 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
asad wrote:by the same yard stick only 3 people believe in Syedna and in which one doubts few things.

Profastian
Progticide
Stranger
Aqs
AliRehbar
HotSaif
Guy Sam
I
...
...
...

I counted 8 already. And i for one do not doubt my faith, but yes, i do doubt the infallability aspect because i believe that He too, is only a human being with feet of clay
Mustafa,

I had only counted Adam, Profastian and you. you can add progticide to the group and it will make you 3.25. Ask Adam and Progticide they will not consider you a .25 bohra also with questioning or having doubts. and a person with feet of clay may break down so how can you base your faith in him