Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
bohri
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#1

Unread post by bohri » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:17 pm

Most (I may be wrong) regular participants on this board seem to be of a generation that has carried the baggage of the past where community affairs are concerned. Many of the discussions are heated and negative, unfortunately many are even abusive. However, we all know there is so much good about being a Bohri, that is why we all feel so strongly about the community. With this being such a heavily visited sites, it is very likely that many of the visitors (but not participants) are below the age of 35. It would be very nice to hear from the younger members of the community about their opinions on being a bohri.

This is an invitation to our younger members of the community wherever you live to hear about your lives as Bohris. Some questions I have are:
  • How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?
    How do you participate in the community?
    Are there aspects of being a bohri that you especially like?
    If you were in the leadsership positions within the community, what kind of changes, in any, would you like to bring about for our community members?
    If you have young children, are you concerned about them maintaining the identity of a bohri?
This is an honest solicitation to hear how the the youth view themselves as bohris in the world. It is driven out of sheer curiosity with no malicious intent. The questions above are not meant to be exhaustive, but would love to hear what you are thinking.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#2

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:46 am

Does this mean there is no one below 35 visiting this blog ?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#3

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:53 am

bohri wrote:How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?
Yes ! I have always been positively identified being a bohri to outside world. Known as different kind of Muslims who are peace loving, food loving, friendly and enterprising.
bohri wrote:How do you participate in the community?
I attend majlises regularly, I participate in Jaman Khidmat occasionally . Although I would like to be a part of Khidmatguzar teams in various fields, but the terms, conditions and influence of the seniors make me hesitant.
bohri wrote:Are there aspects of being a bohri that you especially like?
Answered in first question.
bohri wrote:If you were in the leadsership positions within the community, what kind of changes, in any, would you like to bring about for our community members?
Equality in treatment
Financial Accountability
bohri wrote:If you have young children, are you concerned about them maintaining the identity of a bohri?
I m not Married, However Yes ! I would like kids to maintain the identity of a bohri, one can aspire to become whoever they want, in heart one shall remain connected to roots.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#4

Unread post by Adam » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:52 am

Thank you for this post.
The first question interested me a lot. Nothing harmful intended, just my POV
How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?

For me, "being a Bohra" (I don't use the word Bohri), is completely connected to Belief (in the Imams and Dais) primarily and then the cultural aspect if you may. Belief comes first then culture (For example there maybe a huge cultural difference between the DBs of India and Yemen, but they are all Bohras)

If I may ask, how does one consider them self a Bohri/Bohra if not for belief?
Would you say the "Gujarati" heritage? (Then how would you differ from an Agha Khani/Khoja, or Alya Vohra?

Thanks again. Interesting post.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#5

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:05 am

Adam wrote:For me, "being a Bohra" (I don't use the word Bohri), is completely connected to Belief (in the Imams and Dais) primarily and then the cultural aspect if you may. Belief comes first then culture (For example there maybe a huge cultural difference between the DBs of India and Yemen, but they are all Bohras)
Hi Adam

What you are saying is correct, but not reality amongst majority. Most of the bohra youngsters do not have fair and unbiased knowledge of Fatimid / Ismaili faith. Most of them have a rough sketchy idea of bohra faith evolved from Yemeni Dai migrating from Yemen into India etc. The basic edifice of faith; Imam – Imam-in-seclusion – Series of Dai is broadly understood and believed.

Bohra youngster don’t seem to care what are the core beliefs / fundamentals. They follow what parents tell them to follow, what they hear in sermons and what makes them comfortable in the community. In my POV, they identify more with culture then belief.

• Understanding of the Belief is limited to faith in Sayedna saheb as saviour in life and life after.
• Today’s generation is very much focussed on 52nd dai onwards and are loosing information on previous dais and imams.
• Majority does not have realistic idea of previous Imams and dais whereabouts.
• Attend Majlises (urus, milaads, waaz etc) because its piety to remember previous saints.
• Concept of Imam-uz-zaman has become more of magical fantasy rather than a religious reality
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In bohra case, culture is dominant then belief !!

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#6

Unread post by profastian » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:14 pm

humanbeing wrote:
Adam wrote:For me, "being a Bohra" (I don't use the word Bohri), is completely connected to Belief (in the Imams and Dais) primarily and then the cultural aspect if you may. Belief comes first then culture (For example there maybe a huge cultural difference between the DBs of India and Yemen, but they are all Bohras)
Hi Adam

What you are saying is correct, but not reality amongst majority. Most of the bohra youngsters do not have fair and unbiased knowledge of Fatimid / Ismaili faith. Most of them have a rough sketchy idea of bohra faith evolved from Yemeni Dai migrating from Yemen into India etc. The basic edifice of faith; Imam – Imam-in-seclusion – Series of Dai is broadly understood and believed.

Bohra youngster don’t seem to care what are the core beliefs / fundamentals. They follow what parents tell them to follow, what they hear in sermons and what makes them comfortable in the community. In my POV, they identify more with culture then belief.

• Understanding of the Belief is limited to faith in Sayedna saheb as saviour in life and life after.
• Today’s generation is very much focussed on 52nd dai onwards and are loosing information on previous dais and imams.
• Majority does not have realistic idea of previous Imams and dais whereabouts.
• Attend Majlises (urus, milaads, waaz etc) because its piety to remember previous saints.
• Concept of Imam-uz-zaman has become more of magical fantasy rather than a religious reality
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In bohra case, culture is dominant then belief !!
The basic edifice of faith; Imam – Imam-in-seclusion – Series of Dai is broadly understood and believed. This is the core belief. If someone believes in that, then it suffices for him to be called a bohra.

alik
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#7

Unread post by alik » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:41 pm

Even if imam comes back
Maula and company will say aaa imam nathi aaa toh chor che
Coz if he comes bAck royal family will hav to leave malabar hill

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#8

Unread post by accountability » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:29 pm

brother Adam you did not reply to human being' s previous post on accountability. we would very much like to have your views on that issue.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#9

Unread post by Fateh » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:28 am

Adam wrote:Thank you for this post.
The first question interested me a lot. Nothing harmful intended, just my POV
How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?

For me, "being a Bohra" (I don't use the word Bohri), is completely connected to Belief (in the Imams and Dais) primarily and then the cultural aspect if you may. Belief comes first then culture (For example there maybe a huge cultural difference between the DBs of India and Yemen, but they are all Bohras)

If I may ask, how does one consider them self a Bohri/Bohra if not for belief?
Would you say the "Gujarati" heritage? (Then how would you differ from an Agha Khani/Khoja, or Alya Vohra?

Thanks again. Interesting post.
Salam Bhai,as i am very much impressed by you coz of your depth knowledge of Quran.I am very new to this forum &not have much knowledge of Tawil.I regulerly visiting this forum to clear some of my doubts & i also get some good answers of my questions & i am proud to be a dawoodi bohara .Don't we all are first muslim ?Are we not all follow the great religion name Islam?Why we are bother whether sunni are not on right path or wahabi or shia or any sect of islam?Don't you think we all should have put all these differences to almighty ALLAH ? After our death thy will take decision which sect have to go jannat & which sect will go jahannam .Lets we live our life as where we take birth as per our faith.
As you say that you are agree with the sentence Belief comes first then culture & you ask how does one consider them self a Bohri/Bohra if not for belief? I ask you which belief is greater belief in Islam or belief in dawoodi bohara ?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#10

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:19 am

profastian wrote: The basic edifice of faith; Imam – Imam-in-seclusion – Series of Dai is broadly understood and believed. This is the core belief. If someone believes in that, then it suffices for him to be called a bohra.
@Profastian

Exactly ! this satisfaction stops them from learning about real Islam. They remain content being limited into this boxed belief, they prefer to remain bohra rather than open to be a better muslim. As this belief provides them comfort of convenience of right to heaven.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#11

Unread post by profastian » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:23 am

humanbeing wrote:@Profastian

Exactly ! this satisfaction stops them from learning about real Islam. They remain content being limited into this boxed belief, they prefer to remain bohra rather than open to be a better muslim. As this belief provides them comfort of convenience of right to heaven.
And what is real Islam. What aspect of real Islam does a common bohra not know about?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#12

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:47 am

profastian wrote:And what is real Islam. What aspect of real Islam does a common bohra not know about?
Are Bohra allowed to pray in masjid other than thiers ?
Are Bohra allowed to stand shoulder to shoulder with another muslim and pray ?
Why is Bohra objected from attending Shia Majlises ?
Does Bohra know, Human Worshipping is not allowed in Islam ?
Does Bohra know, Namaaz space cannot be sold for convenience ?
Does Bohra know, Maatam is expression of grief and not form of prayer to Allah ?
Does Bohra know, even non-bohra can go to Heaven irrespective if they believe in Bohra faith or not ?
Does Bohra know, there is one Kaaba ? Kaaba Building for physical being and faith-in-Allah for Soul (nafs) !
Does Bohra know, hunting of animal for pleasure is not allowed ?

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#13

Unread post by Adam » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:30 pm

Fateh
Salam Bhai,as i am very much impressed by you coz of your depth knowledge of Quran.I am very new to this forum &not have much knowledge of Tawil.I regulerly visiting this forum to clear some of my doubts & i also get some good answers of my questions & i am proud to be a dawoodi bohara .Don't we all are first muslim ?Are we not all follow the great religion name Islam?Why we are bother whether sunni are not on right path or wahabi or shia or any sect of islam?Don't you think we all should have put all these differences to almighty ALLAH ? After our death thy will take decision which sect have to go jannat & which sect will go jahannam .Lets we live our life as where we take birth as per our faith.
As you say that you are agree with the sentence Belief comes first then culture & you ask how does one consider them self a Bohri/Bohra if not for belief? I ask you which belief is greater belief in Islam or belief in dawoodi bohara ?


Well said, we do stand together and don't let the bad interfere. I do have many Sunni acquaintances who have a very good idea of where are differences lie, but set it aside for the better good, for Islam.
You wont see any Bohras interfering in others faiths. (Like other, Non Bohras on this Forum have a sick habit of doing)
Which is what Islam teaches us. Mind your own business.
Maybe once we realize that, there maybe peace.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#14

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:28 pm

Adam wrote:Fateh
Well said, we do stand together and don't let the bad interfere. I do have many Sunni acquaintances who have a very good idea of where are differences lie, but set it aside for the better good, for Islam.
You wont see any Bohras interfering in others faiths. (Like other, Non Bohras on this Forum have a sick habit of doing)
Which is what Islam teaches us. Mind your own business.
Maybe once we realize that, there maybe peace.
Which is what Islam teaches us. Mind your own business.

Really Shaikh Adam Bhai Saheb?

Have you ever read ao known these Prophetic Ahadiths?
ENJOINING GOOD AND FORBIDDING EVIL

Abu Saad Khudri related that Prophet SAW said;

Whoever observes something wrong should change it with his hands. If he is unable to do so, then he should speak against it with his tongue. If he is unable to do even that, then he should at least resent it in his heart-and this is lowest level of faith. (Muslim)


Abdulla Bin Masud narrated that Prophet SAW said:

By Allah, you must enjoin good and forbid evil, you must catch hold of oppressor’s hand and give him severe warning to stick to truth, or Allah will surely set up the hearts of some of you against those of others, and then he will certainly curse you as HE cursed the children of Israel. (Related by Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi)

Abu Masud Al-Ansari narrated that Prophet SAW said:

Whoever guides someone towards good will receive the reward of one who acts upon it. (Related by Ahmed)

Asiyya bin Umayrah narrated that Prophet SAW said:

Allah does not punish the individuals for the sins of the community until they see the evil spreading among themselves, and while they have power to stop it, and do not act to do so. (Related by At-Tirmidhi)
From “A treasury of Ahadith”
Dr. Mazhar U. Kazi
We will discuss further after you respond about these Ahadith
Wasalaam

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#15

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:50 am

Adam wrote:You wont see any Bohras interfering in others faiths. (Like other, Non Bohras on this Forum have a sick habit of doing)
Which is what Islam teaches us. Mind your own business.
Maybe once we realize that, there maybe peace.
Adam

How can we say bohra don’t interefere in other faiths, infact bohra promotes derogatory comparison with other faiths. Raising; status, belief, understanding of bohra faith being superior and others being inferior. The “ Ola Musalmaan” concept.

My point is, why do bohra priest care what “ola musalman” do, if bohra faith is pristine of all, righteous of all then just preach and promote what bohra faith believes. Amils, sabak orators pass sarcastic and ridiculing remarks about “Ola Musalmano” way of life, sometime they don’t even spare other Shia sect, before bohra priests disliked non-shias now they dislike anyone who doesn’t submit to sayedna saheb’s position.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#16

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:00 am

Hi Adam / Progiticide


What is your public opinion on question expressed here….


What exactly is the objection / apprehension with providing Accounts of Funds ?


By what justification / logic / reason…. presenting accounts is to undermine authority of sayedna saheb ?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:41 am

humanbeing wrote:
Adam wrote:You wont see any Bohras interfering in others faiths. (Like other, Non Bohras on this Forum have a sick habit of doing)
Which is what Islam teaches us. Mind your own business.
Maybe once we realize that, there maybe peace.
Adam

How can we say bohra don’t interefere in other faiths, infact bohra promotes derogatory comparison with other faiths. Raising; status, belief, understanding of bohra faith being superior and others being inferior. The “ Ola Musalmaan” concept.

My point is, why do bohra priest care what “ola musalman” do, if bohra faith is pristine of all, righteous of all then just preach and promote what bohra faith believes. Amils, sabak orators pass sarcastic and ridiculing remarks about “Ola Musalmano” way of life, sometime they don’t even spare other Shia sect, before bohra priests disliked non-shias now they dislike anyone who doesn’t submit to sayedna saheb’s position.
Br Humanbeing
you made point I was going to make it.

Adam Bhai
Have you heard "Mukh me Raam or bagal me churi"?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#18

Unread post by stranger » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:43 am

How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?
Yes, I do. . Bohras means a peaceful and loving community. you always get treated warmly by outside world.
They finds you friendly and flexible. Simple and honest.
How do you participate in the community?
Not always but I do, largely depends on how big the day and occassion is.
I don't attend Sabaks, don't participate in anything, only khidmat i do is in Mawaa'id.
Are there aspects of being a bohri that you especially like?
Urmmmmmm....more and less its same as first answer. :D
If you were in the leadsership positions within the community, what kind of changes, in any, would you like to bring about for our community members?
1.) Equality in treatment, No Different Safaai chhitti and No special thals, No special reserved place.
2.) Change in content : of Waa'z and bayan..nowadays mostly focus on glorifications and materialism things. Seriously its getting too boring and less spiritual day by day..should be more about Islam, less about Bohraism.
3.) Abandon giving titles on the basis of Salaam and najwa.
4.) Qadambosi should be free and Ziyafat on the basis of religious values a person posses, not his money.
5.) No forceful extortion of Wajebaat, whatever be given, should be taken. He will be accountable to Allah(SWT) on the day of judgement.
6.) Establish Free Libraries ( Deen and Duniya both ) and Loans for poor students, instead of buliding Aalishaan Jamatkhaanas. Provide regular food for poor and needy instead of lavish jaman everytime.
7.) Open mini Centres for understanding Quran with meaning, instead of spending on relays now and then.
8.) Encourage charity if one wants to do on individual level.
9.) Stop denial of burial in case of non payment of Sabeel.
10,) No Fixed money for Salaam and Raza, should be voluntary.
If you have young children, are you concerned about them maintaining the identity of a bohri?
Yes, I love the culture, values and manners we derived from our parents and ancestors. BuT, I will always teach him/her that you are a "Muslim" first, Then You are a "Shi'a" and Then you are a "Bohri". Always Remember.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#19

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:55 am

Hi Stranger

Superb !! … very well expressed. I totally agree with you .. !!

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#20

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:58 am

stranger wrote:
How does being a Bohri give you a special sense of identity (or does it)?
Yes, I do. . Bohras means a peaceful and loving community. you always get treated warmly by outside world.
They finds you friendly and flexible. Simple and honest.
How do you participate in the community?
Not always but I do, largely depends on how big the day and occassion is.
I don't attend Sabaks, don't participate in anything, only khidmat i do is in Mawaa'id.
Are there aspects of being a bohri that you especially like?
Urmmmmmm....more and less its same as first answer. :D
If you were in the leadsership positions within the community, what kind of changes, in any, would you like to bring about for our community members?
1.) Equality in treatment, No Different Safaai chhitti and No special thals, No special reserved place.
2.) Change in content : of Waa'z and bayan..nowadays mostly focus on glorifications and materialism things. Seriously its getting too boring and less spiritual day by day..should be more about Islam, less about Bohraism.
3.) Abandon giving titles on the basis of Salaam and najwa.
4.) Qadambosi should be free and Ziyafat on the basis of religious values a person posses, not his money.
5.) No forceful extortion of Wajebaat, whatever be given, should be taken. He will be accountable to Allah(SWT) on the day of judgement.
6.) Establish Free Libraries ( Deen and Duniya both ) and Loans for poor students, instead of buliding Aalishaan Jamatkhaanas. Provide regular food for poor and needy instead of lavish jaman everytime.
7.) Open mini Centres for understanding Quran with meaning, instead of spending on relays now and then.
8.) Encourage charity if one wants to do on individual level.
9.) Stop denial of burial in case of non payment of Sabeel.
10,) No Fixed money for Salaam and Raza, should be voluntary.
If you have young children, are you concerned about them maintaining the identity of a bohri?
Yes, I love the culture, values and manners we derived from our parents and ancestors. BuT, I will always teach him/her that you are a "Muslim" first, Then You are a "Shi'a" and Then you are a "Bohri". Always Remember.
SUBHANALLAH Aisi subha kabhi to aayegi aayegi kya bhai?

bohri
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#21

Unread post by bohri » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:35 am

Dear Humanbeing and Stranger -

Thanks you for your comments. Happy to hear about all the positive cultural aspects of being a bohri. As for the negatives especially regarding equality, do you think other young people in the community feel the same? Are you/ they willing to do anything about it or do they consider it being part and parcel of being a bohri?

Again - your responses are much appreciated

bohri
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#22

Unread post by bohri » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Does this mean there is no one below 35 visiting this blog ?
Dear OZ - no offense meant. I made an assumption that the regular participants on this forum are older > 35. I may be wrong.

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#23

Unread post by SBM » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am

Br. Stranger
Very well put. I think majority of people on this forum specially from Progressive side will agree with your input and comments
Any thought of becoming a leader :) , if so count me in. The only other thing I would suggest if I become your assistant or advisor to have accountability and transparency,

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#24

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:04 am

As for the negatives especially regarding equality, do you think other young people in the community feel the same? Are you/ they willing to do anything about it or do they consider it being part and parcel of being a bohri?
I have objected / rebelled against floor level inequality. We were once sitting in a thaal in the reserved zone for sheikhs. One enthusiastic khidmatguzaar request us to getup and form thaal elsewhere away from marked boundaries for sheikh zone. I objected and told him, there is plenty of place around, mumins can form thaals anywhere. He replied in his brainwashed arrogance, we wont be given thaal if we don’t move ! I said so be it !! what happened next !! .. I was the only one left in that Thaal (lol) I looked around embarrassed and walked out of the Markaz ! was it worth to eat after such a humiliation !! not for me !! .. I waited outside and grabbed a sandwich way back home !!

My point is, its this little little sense of segregation instilled in the mindset of people through planned sabaks and sermons, which would damage the united fabric of our community. Latently, sense of superiority complex is penetrating in the psyche of our people.

As humans we already struggle with biased prejudices and racist nature. If such thoughts are branded with religious justification then we may be slowly and steadily creating dreaded era of caste system. We already have disturbing perceptions visible amongst people in our community :

• Bohra are better and best than others, while other are inferior race (aka claim to heaven)
• Not to eat food made by hindu hands
• Not to make non bohra friends (it is advised in sabaks, so don’t be surprised)

Within Bohra community :

• People above Mullah are better than remaining Rayyet.
• Alliances from Sheikhs, Mullas and Kothari family is considered higher than others.
• Segregation in seating and dining highlighting line of separation in respect and race.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#25

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:41 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
bohri wrote:Dear Humanbeing and Stranger -

Thanks you for your comments. Happy to hear about all the positive cultural aspects of being a bohri. As for the negatives especially regarding equality, do you think other young people in the community feel the same? Are you/ they willing to do anything about it or do they consider it being part and parcel of being a bohri?

Again - your responses are much appreciated

Well Brother Bohri,

I would not say that equality is a practice shunned in our community, but it is certainly suffocated. About whether are we considering doing anything about it, i remember an argument i had with a member here, that why should one bow down to someone younger than ones self, to which he replied quite logically that one is bowing not to the age but to the maquaam of the person in front.

Anyways, i didnt agree with it and we decided to move on.

But then again, isnt this the same in any religon? Why are Priests fingers kissed? Why are Pandit's blessings sought? Because they are supposed to be on a level higher than most regular people

So, if a person is offered a better Safra, or more dishes in the thaal or bigger salaams, then it is fine if it is based on their qualification, their maquaam, hell, even their age. An aamil being offered the above is ok, because in a way, he is the community head, but if it is only because they are someone related to our Dai, then upto a certain level, say maybe upto His children is fine, because they would be old, but anyone under that would make me uncomfortable

Im probably using 10 sentences when i should be using 3, so let me try again...

Inequality is maybe something that we have... not gotten used too, but something that we have accepted.

So is it wrong? I dont know, i guess that depends on the circumstances of each scenario
So, if a person is offered a better Safra, or more dishes in the thaal or bigger salaams, then it is fine if it is based on their qualification, their maquaam, hell, even their age. An aamil being offered the above is ok, because in a way, he is the community head, but if it is only because they are someone related to our Dai, then upto a certain level, say maybe upto His children is fine, because they would be old, but anyone under that would make me uncomfortable
Salam bhai no it is not fine in any level .What is the main fundamental spirit or one can say principle of Islam which was responsible for spreading of Islam in all over the world is all human beings are equal.Hamare nabisaab jyada se jyada garibo ke sath hote the aur unho ne kabhi aisa kanhi bhi nahi kaha ke jo amir hai wo aage ki saf mein namaj pade Respect dil se aana chahiye forcefully mangana nahi hota.Ye apane aapko aamil samajne walein haqeeqat mein to jahil hai,are jisne itana Quran padha hai aur itana samaja hai to unke liye duniya ke man aur akaram ki kya lalach.In my pov 90% of our janab aamil are not even good human.

SHANAWAZ
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:15 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#26

Unread post by SHANAWAZ » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:59 am

hi i pretty much agree with ur thought's regarding the general knowledge of a normal bohri and there are various reasons for it basic being the up bringing and there brought up in such a limited envirorment that nobody even bother's to think what is going around them whether it is right or wrong they only think that we r different and we r on the right path which does not contradict with the basics of the religion

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#27

Unread post by Adam » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm

This thread as diverted of topic, as usual.

SHANAWAZ
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:15 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#28

Unread post by SHANAWAZ » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:14 pm

humanbeing wrote:
profastian wrote:And what is real Islam. What aspect of real Islam does a common bohra not know about?
Are Bohra allowed to pray in masjid other than thiers ?
Are Bohra allowed to stand shoulder to shoulder with another muslim and pray ?
Why is Bohra objected from attending Shia Majlises ?
Does Bohra know, Human Worshipping is not allowed in Islam ?
Does Bohra know, Namaaz space cannot be sold for convenience ?
Does Bohra know, Maatam is expression of grief and not form of prayer to Allah ?
Does Bohra know, even non-bohra can go to Heaven irrespective if they believe in Bohra faith or not ?
Does Bohra know, there is one Kaaba ? Kaaba Building for physical being and faith-in-Allah for Soul (nafs) !
Does Bohra know, hunting of animal for pleasure is not allowed ?
FIRSTLY THK U FOR RAISING SUCH REAL QUESTIONS WHICH R NOTHING BUT PRESSING ON THE PAINFULL VEIN AND IT IS NOT ABOUT KNOWING THE TRUE ASPECTS NOBODY IN THE COMMUNITY IS INTERESTED TO KNOW AND THE ORG ALSO DOES'NT WANTS THE PPL TO KNOW BECAUSE IF THEY KNOW THESE THINGS AND THEY WILL OBVIOUSLY NOT COME TO THEM

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#29

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:49 pm

bohri wrote:
ozmujaheed wrote:Does this mean there is no one below 35 visiting this blog ?
Dear OZ - no offense meant. I made an assumption that the regular participants on this forum are older > 35. I may be wrong.
No offense taken but this should be concern that below 35 are not participating in large numbers and have issue with the affairs of the community

I am not below 35 and do not want this blog to be a midlife blog only!

Can this discussions be channeled to face book and social media where the gen Y are more active ?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Inviting young Bohris 35 years and below

#30

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:08 am

Hi OM

It would be unfair to generalize my POV to all youngsters (below 35). But if we can ask, why youngsters are less in rebellion and more in submission due to several reasons.

Controlled upbringing into make-believe world of bohraism
Since impressionable days of childhood, we are made to believe that Sayedna Saheb and his family are a magical persona, Angels in form of human. For children it all sounds like a fairy tale, mojizas, appearances in white robes, halo effect of being is pristine white washed community.

Busy with hectic pace of life; career and secular milestones
We are living in a hurried race to our desires, early to achieve education, home, cars, gadgets, fancy career, business. One cannot afford to slow down and ponder, we want milestones, by hook or crook, by perfection or mediocrity.

Community gatherings are relaxing escape from troubled world
Having burdened and tossed around with wordly affairs (domestic and professional demands) majaalis provides a spiritual gateway to slow down and network or socialise in society. Intrinsically is gives a feeling of being pious, religious and connected to the roots, externally person is respected with familiarity of being seen at majaalis.

Dosage of superiority and feeling of being comforted by priestly rehbars
Bayaans in the Majaalis are overwhelming and exaggerated dosage of how different and superior bohra commoners are, and how more superior are priestly class, creating a subconscious trance of being down-to-earth-but-above-all euphoria. A feeling of being guarded from mad world (zaalim duniya) in life and life after.

A sense of religious fulfilment by maatam and “being-there” at Majaalis.
For many bohra youngsters, definition of being religious include; regular at majaalis, ziyarats, beard, qomi libaas, intense maatam. Due to peer pressure and go-with-flow mentality many youngsters fit into the cycle without questioning.

Beard and Topi is a convenient pious look one can adorn.
Reason for directed appearance could be many; some are made to believe, some believe, some follow the herd, some are forced into. But in any case, such appearance provide latent preferential treatment in the community and priestly administrative circles. Absence of adherence invites scorned looks and petty obstacles to way around in the community affairs

Lack of empathy for different way of life of others.
Being bought up in closely held cultish environment, anything outside the fence is a world full of wolves. Other faiths are respected by lip service for commercial and political reasons. Lack of understanding of other faiths and human tendency / nature to ridicule philosophies not in line with their own learning, compounds an invisible isolation of understanding and empathy towards non bohra people.