Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

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asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#1

Unread post by asad » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:27 am

Time and again we have been asking for democratic setup in Jamaat and Financial accountability from Kothar. Are this realistic goals? Because if we see example of India the biggest democracy who publishes a budget report every year mired in corruption more then kothar.

So are we chasing the wrong goose and do we need to realign our strategy to attain some success. People are happy and satisfied with Kothar on macro level, on micro level people have problems, what can be a better plan to make people realise that something really is wrong with the whole setup and their is more than what meets the eye.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#2

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:50 am

Hi Asad

Definitition of democracy has to be understood in proper context, there are various kinds of democracy which exist in this world. Also there are hybrid governance mechanism such as Democratic Monarchy or Leadership Democracy.

No system is a foolproof system, rejecting every system with this fear would not lead to any solution. If we don’t have a role model example, we shall create one, and if we see a decadent example, we shall learn from its fallacies rather then get discouraged.

Keeping Fatimid / Ismaili… Bohra faith and regulations in perspective we can still create a holistic system of governance with internal control checks to prevent or reduce cases of corruption morally and financially.

If we observe the current governance system in our community, it majorly fits into democratic monarchy with few exception or loopholes.

Dai being the prime leader, has administration managed by Mazoon and Mukasir and further jurisdictionally governed by Amils. There is a cabinet of Ministers who handles various portfolios (finance, education, logistics, development etc).

Once financial accountability is established and every penny collected and spent is counted and optimized, then the benefit of this governance will be more satisfying at micro and macro levels.

Every system of governance adheres or inspires from written code of conduct, held in high respect and authority. From secular governments to divine religions have established written code of conducts to regulate people behaviour morally, financially, socially. Mainstream Islam is a subtle example of Democracy at broader scale, every muslim across countries adheres to laws laid down in Quran. Mullas, Maulvis and Muslim scholars merely becomes minsters or facilitators deriving authority or respect from understanding of Quran.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#3

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:53 am

humanbeing wrote:Hi Asad

Definitition of democracy has to be understood in proper context, there are various kinds of democracy which exist in this world. Also there are hybrid governance mechanism such as Democratic Monarchy or Leadership Democracy.

No system is a foolproof system, rejecting every system with this fear would not lead to any solution. If we don’t have a role model example, we shall create one, and if we see a decadent example, we shall learn from its fallacies rather then get discouraged.

Keeping Fatimid / Ismaili… Bohra faith and regulations in perspective we can still create a holistic system of governance with internal control checks to prevent or reduce cases of corruption morally and financially.

If we observe the current governance system in our community, it majorly fits into democratic monarchy with few exception or loopholes.

Dai being the prime leader, has administration managed by Mazoon and Mukasir and further jurisdictionally governed by Amils. There is a cabinet of Ministers who handles various portfolios (finance, education, logistics, development etc).

Once financial accountability is established and every penny collected and spent is counted and optimized, then the benefit of this governance will be more satisfying at micro and macro levels.

Every system of governance adheres or inspires from written code of conduct, held in high respect and authority. From secular governments to divine religions have established written code of conducts to regulate people behaviour morally, financially, socially. Mainstream Islam is a subtle example of Democracy at broader scale, every muslim across countries adheres to laws laid down in Quran. Mullas, Maulvis and Muslim scholars merely becomes minsters or facilitators deriving authority or respect from understanding of Quran.
Fantastic yes our system is world best system of governance but the people who are involved are very known of Quran but apply his knowledge only to fulfeel their own materialistic benefits .

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#4

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:58 pm

Bro humanbeing,

You rightly said that the present dawat governance fits into democratic monarchy but with loopholes and to simplify it further :-
humanbeing wrote:Dai being the prime leader, has administration managed by Mazoon and Mukasir and further jurisdictionally governed by Amils. There is a cabinet of Ministers who handles various portfolios (finance, education, logistics, development etc).
Dai is the Prime Minister and the subsequent two important portfolios of defence and finance is given to Mazun and Mukasir, the zadas could be presumed as other cabinet ministers with limited role BUT the problem is that the defence minister is sidelined and continously absent in the parliament, the finance minister too is rarely seen due to which the entire limelight is hogged by the not so important cabinet ministers. Hence all decisions are taken by the subordinates and the key ministers with important portfolios are mere dummies. The icing on the cake is that the Prime Minister is silent and moves and acts only on the instructions of the party head (Sonia Gandhi).... in this case the manhoos. The end result is total chaos, the nation is put to ransom which results in total confusion and MASS CORRUPTION.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#5

Unread post by profastian » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:42 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro humanbeing,

You rightly said that the present dawat governance fits into democratic monarchy but with loopholes and to simplify it further :-
humanbeing wrote:Dai being the prime leader, has administration managed by Mazoon and Mukasir and further jurisdictionally governed by Amils. There is a cabinet of Ministers who handles various portfolios (finance, education, logistics, development etc).
Dai is the Prime Minister and the subsequent two important portfolios of defence and finance is given to Mazun and Mukasir, the zadas could be presumed as other cabinet ministers with limited role BUT the problem is that the defence minister is sidelined and continously absent in the parliament, the finance minister too is rarely seen due to which the entire limelight is hogged by the not so important cabinet ministers. Hence all decisions are taken by the subordinates and the key ministers with important portfolios are mere dummies. The icing on the cake is that the Prime Minister is silent and moves and acts only on the instructions of the party head (Sonia Gandhi).... in this case the manhoos. The end result is total chaos, the nation is put to ransom which results in total confusion and MASS CORRUPTION.
You ignorant dung-head. You only know the names Mazoon and Mukasir but not what their functions are. They and other Hadoods are doing exactly what they are supposed to. They are not supposed to be in the limelight. The running of worldly affairs is only a side business of the Dawat and the lesser important people are doing it. They are doing their function too, taking the limelight and tedious burden away from the important people. As for the Mansoos. Manhoos, zina zadas and pig(=Umar) lovers like you can not even comprehend him and his functions.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#6

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:25 pm

profastian wrote:You ignorant dung-head. You only know the names Mazoon and Mukasir but not what their functions are. They and other Hadoods are doing exactly what they are supposed to. They are not supposed to be in the limelight. The
You feet licking abde, what are they doing that they are supposed to do ? Any reason why they are not supposed to be in the limelight and is hogging the limelight a prerogative of the dai alone ? Why wasnt the mazun present during nass ceremony, urus of his father (51st dai) and salgirah of his dai, is it one of the commands in daimul islam ?
profastian wrote:The running of worldly affairs is only a side business of the Dawat and the lesser important people are doing it.
Running of worldly affairs is the MAIN business of this dawat under the leadership of the present dai and his carbon copy, the manhoos but it is beyond your pea sized brain to understand a simple difference between SIDE BUSINESS and MAIN BUSINESS, see the number of ziafats, mafsusiyats, hadiyats etc in return for crores of rupees.
profastian wrote:They are doing their function too, taking the limelight and tedious burden away from the important people.
REALLY ??? Then why are all the kothar sponsored websites flashing the photos and other activities of the dai and manhoos only ?
profastian wrote:As for the Mansoos. Manhoos, zina zadas and pig(=Umar) lovers like you can not even comprehend him and his functions
Aa@@se lickers of modi, thackerey and Kafan Chors like your dai and people who encourage him in his unislamic, inhuman and evil practices are the only eligible people who can comprehend the future DON (Manhoos).

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#7

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:20 pm

mustafanalwalla wrote:
it would be unfair to extrapolate the views of the hundred odd members on this site
everytime the champion idiot of this forum speaks, he shoves his feet further into his stupid mouth and more toilet paper up his rosewater smelling backside! here are the forum's official statistics:

Statistics
Total posts 91484 • Total topics 6868 • Total members 2178 • Our newest member mtz9540

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#8

Unread post by profastian » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:49 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
mustafanalwalla wrote:
it would be unfair to extrapolate the views of the hundred odd members on this site
everytime the champion idiot of this forum speaks, he shoves his feet further into his stupid mouth and more toilet paper up his rosewater smelling backside! here are the forum's official statistics:

Statistics
Total posts 91484 • Total topics 6868 • Total members 2178 • Our newest member mtz9540
2078 of which are various avatars of labbaik

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is democracy and Financial accountability a solution

#9

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:08 pm

mustafanalwalla wrote:
Statistics
Total posts 91484 • Total topics 6868 • Total members 2178 • Our newest member mtz9540[/b][/color]
.. this site might have 2178 members, but only about a hundred of them are active.
[/quote]

tsk tsk, losing our temper are we? resorting to the classic ploy of the low class mawali's? when cornered, abuse and threaten? you are so predictable... :cry:

you and your abde regressive friends should be trembling in their soiled undies, that so many 'silent' members exist, who come here, read and monitor this forum. they are all buried deep in your regular jamaats, fee paying, ejamat card holding agents of change, copying posts from here and circulating them all over the world. fyi, many of them are members of the syedna's family, some of them actually feel pangs of guilt as their conscience is stirred, unlike an idiot like you who believes that syedna is mojiza na saheb inspite of him committing grevious sins!

you are so deserving of the title 'champion idiot'.