Awareness of Imamate Concept

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#91

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:06 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:the main difference is bohra clergy dont enforce it on others.
if u choose to opt out, they leave u alone with ur beleif.
even gale lagao sometimes.
that is not the case with followers of umayyads version of islam.
they forcefully enforce it on you even if ur not muslims or follow their view of islam.
I agree ! wahabis kill those who do not agree with them and bohras throw them out of the community who do not agree with them. Sure getting thrown out of the community seems lesser evil then killing people.

With such standards, no doubt tyrants like fatimids turn into murderers like wahabis !

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#92

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:12 am

humanbeing wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:the main difference is bohra clergy dont enforce it on others.
if u choose to opt out, they leave u alone with ur beleif.
even gale lagao sometimes.
that is not the case with followers of umayyads version of islam.
they forcefully enforce it on you even if ur not muslims or follow their view of islam.
I agree ! wahabis kill those who do not agree with them and bohras throw them out of the community who do not agree with them. Sure getting thrown out of the community seems lesser evil then killing people.
With such standards, no doubt tyrants like fatimids turn into murderers like wahabis !
Muffy does not make Fatemid standards. Read this: The hurmat and sanctity of each mumin must be preserved. No one should be allowed to malign others. The color-coded system of green, yellow and red safai-chitthi instituted by certain elements within the administration is wrong; it creates dissension among mumineen. It is imperative that there be unity in the jama’at; that all jama’at members live in harmony and concord. In Dawat majalis and in all mumineen gatherings, an atmosphere of joy and tranquility should prevail. Spiritual elevation is obtained by learning and deeds, ilm and amal, and it is Allah Ta’ala who determines it. It is not for the Aamil to decide who is green and who is red. - http://www.fatemidawat.com/philosophy/p ... ality.html

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#93

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:12 am

humanbeing wrote:
fayyaaz wrote:Biased and twisted justification? Give me specific examples and I will respond.
Glaring example is your total defense of Fatimid belief preachers and resultant behaviors of their followers.

........ But Surprised to read your arguments in favour of bohra clergy, which surpresses such freedoms in deceptive ways.
Please be specific. I mean, please quote from my posts that with which you are so pissed off. I am unable to pin down what your objections are.

I defend the freedom of a cult and its leaders who have succeeded in getting followers as long as they operate within the laws of a country. I do not defend their beliefs but would seek to explain them. This comment applies to cults in Western Democracies and other liberal democracies that have laws which are protected by the legal system impartially. That excludes all Muslim countries except a few marginally such as Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia.

I have made it clear that just as I defend the rights of an individual to belong to a cult, I also defend the right of ex-cult members to live freely without persecution from the cultists. But, if a person wants to remain in the cult and complain about it, then he must feel that there is a machinery within the cult to address his complaint. If there is no such machinery, as it appears to be in the Bohra cult, then the complainant has himself to blame by remaining within the cult. Nothing can be done about that by outsiders.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#94

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:29 am

Consider the text of the declaration of independence.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

If there is no machinery to replace the Dai, then create one. This fool's advise will forever doom the bohras!!

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#95

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:08 pm

anajmi wrote: If there is no machinery to replace the Dai, then create one. This fool's advise will forever doom the bohras!!
Let Bohras create the machinery if they wish. Outsiders should not concern themselves with it.

All evidence points to the fact that the vast majority of Bohras have no objection to the Dai and want the system to continue as it is. Both the rival Dais operate exactly the same system. One may be more or less corrupt than the other one. But no Bohras, at least those that matter, want to replace the Dai.

There are fringe elements of non-Bohras and anti-Bohras, mainly on this forum, who want to replace the Dai and the whole apparatus associated with the Bohra belief system. They live in a fool's paradise. Even Progressive Bohras do not want the Dai replaced, maybe a particular individual who occupies the seat of the Dai. That is unlikely to happen.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#96

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:24 pm

Let Bohras create the machinery if they wish. Outsiders should not concern themselves with it.
Actually bohras are too dumbed down to create one. Remember, it is the duty of American citizens to police the world and create freedom and democracy.

Anyway, I am here to defend the rights of those who wish to fight evil wherever they see it as long as they remain within the law unless the law oppresses them. So, insider outsider etc etc are random criteria set by some fool somewhere which doesn't really mean anything. Consider this forum to be a court of law where each party is presenting their arguments. You are a spectator. So shut up and do not interrupt the proceedings.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#97

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:40 pm

anajmi wrote: Consider this forum to be a court of law where each party is presenting their arguments. You are a spectator. So shut up and do not interrupt the proceedings.
A Yazid-lover's testimony against a Shia is always suspect. Judge/Court/Jury will dismiss that testifier, always.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#98

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:55 pm

Consider the fact that I have been around for 14 years, over 12 thousand posts and many idol worshippers have gone missing. Some have even had to change their identities. :wink:

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#99

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:37 am

anajmi wrote:Consider the fact that I have been around for 14 years, over 12 thousand posts and many idol worshippers have gone missing. Some have even had to change their identities. :wink:
Yes, it is the eight wonder of the world! :lol: :lol: :lol:

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#100

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:34 pm

One of the definitions of a fool - When he can't think of anything to say, he says anything he can think of.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#101

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:20 pm

If a judge has to select the dai for us, then what is the use of ghaib imam.

Ghaib imam has created the mess, now a judge has to sort everything for us.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#102

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:35 am

Maybe the hindu judge is the Imam?

SBM
Posts: 6270
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#103

Unread post by SBM » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:18 pm

SMS people have more faith in Hindus then the Imam let us see:
1-It was an unkown Hindu who gave witness of his dream having SMB coming to about SMS nuss
2-It was Baba Ramdev who came to congratulate and hug the 53 Dai to transfer Ramdev wave to SMS
3-It was another Hindu beggar who always looking for Noorani Thaali which was rejected by Abde family for lousy food quality
4-It was another Hindu who came as snake who wanted to do deedar of SMS at some Abde's house who was doing Ziyaafat
AND NOW IT IS A HINDU JUDGE WHO WILL DECIDE THIS NUSS BUSINESS so going forward new Mantra for SMS followers wil
JAI SRI MUFFI JI BOLO JAI
JAI SRI MUFFI JI--JAI JAI SRI MUFFI
As they say History repeats itself and the Bohras are converted Brahimins so finally Muffy and his Goons are finding solace in their ancestors

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#104

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:22 pm

om nama shivai to be changed to om nama mufai.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#105

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:19 pm

in fact among certain marwari sects they have already started the new trend of chanting, "mufatlal naam satya hai, bolo mufatlal naam satya hai.." when carrying their dead to the samshaan ghats, instead of 'ram naam satya hai..."

muffy is eyeing opportunities for large scale conversions among the marwaris and ramdev baba-ite fans. hefty amounts are being discussed as we speak. sums running into 50-100 crores to convince ramdev and the marwari mukhi's. if this mubarak event happens, it will be at the cost of abde's adopting the munj, wearing dhoti and jhabla instead of STD, coming to masjid/markaz on camels and donkeys, and on festive occasions like ashara mubaraka sporting saffron colored komi libaas. muffy will teach praanayam from the takht and demonstrate his perfection at hatha yoga, doing upside down sajdas during maqtal bayans.

what a perfect fusion of bohra-brahman! should we call this new hybrid species, bohrahman, or bra-hohra or bobrah?

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#106

Unread post by progticide » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:46 am

haqniwaat wrote: Muffy does not make Fatemid standards. Read this: The hurmat and sanctity of each mumin must be preserved. No one should be allowed to malign others. The color-coded system of green, yellow and red safai-chitthi instituted by certain elements within the administration is wrong; it creates dissension among mumineen. It is imperative that there be unity in the jama’at; that all jama’at members live in harmony and concord. In Dawat majalis and in all mumineen gatherings, an atmosphere of joy and tranquility should prevail. Spiritual elevation is obtained by learning and deeds, ilm and amal, and it is Allah Ta’ala who determines it. It is not for the Aamil to decide who is green and who is red. - http://www.fatemidawat.com/philosophy/p ... ality.html
@Batilniwaat

You are today questioning the system of color-coded safai-chitthi and portraying as if this is something instituted now and never existed before. You conveniently forget that this system was introduced during the reign of the 52nd Dai-ul-Mutlaq Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. This practice has been there for last atleast 10-15 years, maybe more. During that time Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was young & healthy. He was completely aware and incharge of every affair of the Dawat and well-being of the mumineen for every moment of his life then and unto the time of his departure from this world. No unreasonable or unnecessary or WRONG(as your master calls it) practice could have been introduced into the dawat affairs without 52nd Dai's knowledge. If you argue about his stroke and subsequent health issues than that is only upto 3-4 years ago.

So now:
1. Do you doubt the wisdom and leadership of the 52nd Dai-ul-Mutlaq when this practice of color-coded safai chitthi was introduced by him? Do you doubt his mental and physical capacity to execute the functions of the office of the Dai ul Mutlaq for so many years?

2. Do you believe that the 52nd Dai-ul-Mutlaq was unaware of the Dawat affairs and irresponsible in dispensing his functions as the head of the DB community? That this practice was introduced without his Raza?

3. If you agree that the above practice was introduced with the Raza of the 52nd Dai-ul-Mutlaq, questioning the rightfulness of this practice means you are questioning the wisdom and leadership of the 52nd Dai. Thus, you have indeed digressed from the true path of DB belief by questioning the actions and decisions of the Dai ul Mutlaq. Your hatred for the 52nd Dai ul Mutlaq is thus evident.

4. If you claim that the above practice was introduced without the Raza of 52nd Dai ul Mutlaq, then what was your master doing all these years? Why did your master not report this matter (if you say this matter was not known to the 52nd Dai) to the 52nd Dai? What was your master so busy with that he did not find time to report a so-called malpractice in the community? What steps did your master, who himself was in such a exalted position then, undertake to stop this practice?

5. In case your master did report this issue and the 52nd Dai ul Mutlaq chose not to action upon it clearly means that your master was reporting a non-issue and something which had the Raza of the 52nd Dai ul Mutlaq. In this case, it shows that your master was out of sync with the far-sightedness, thoughtfulness and wisdom of the 52nd Dai ul Mutlaq and could not understand the Hikmat behind the actions of his own master. How then does he claim to be the successor?

Hamd
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:21 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#107

Unread post by Hamd » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:30 am

yes silence of KQ while SMB was alive clearly shows he was aware of every thing, if he was against all these he should have raised this issue long long back.

now its too late.
.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1006
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Awareness of Imamate Concept

#108

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:42 am

better late than never