FOR ADAM

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#31

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:32 am

level_headed wrote:
When did the Rasm of Wadahwo started? Was it after Raja Bharmal and Tarmal became Dai?
4. Don't know when this rasam started. FYI, Bharmal and Tarmal were never Dai's
Prophet SAW said:
Wa sharrul Umoori Muhdathaatuhaa, Wa kulla Bid'atin dhaialah, wa kulla dhalatin fin-naar" Al-Hadith (Sahih Muslim).
Translation of the above Hadith:
Every innovation is a misguidance and every misguidance goes to Hell fire.

level_headed
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:02 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#32

Unread post by level_headed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:46 pm

Yeh kya keh daala MF bhai -
1. Abu Bakr to gaya jahnnam mein kyon ke zakaat na dene par aap kisi ki jaan nahin le sakte ho na unpar jihad kar sakte ho, yeh bidat bhi Abu Bakr laya tha
2. Umar to phir gaya jahannam mein kyun ke Taraawi bhi to bidat hai

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#33

Unread post by SBM » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:27 pm

level_headed"]Yeh kya keh daala MF bhai -
1. Abu Bakr to gaya jahnnam mein kyon ke zakaat na dene par aap kisi ki jaan nahin le sakte ho na unpar jihad kar sakte ho, yeh bidat bhi Abu Bakr laya tha
2. Umar to phir gaya jahannam mein kyun ke Taraawi bhi to bidat hai

Tu level Headed in that case all Kothari Goons will go to Jahanam since 2 Rakat Namaz for Syedna Taher Saifuddin and 2 Rakat Namaz for Syedna
Burhanuddin is also bidat. Not stopping people doing Sajda and having Pompous ceremony where showing off is also biddat
YEH KYA KEH DAALA LEVEL HEADED BHAI AAPNE TU SARE KOTHARION KU JAHANNAM RASID KER DIYA :cry:

level_headed
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:02 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#34

Unread post by level_headed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:45 pm

Stop declaring victory. We(Dawoodi Bohras) believe that the zamaan na saheb can and is allowed to introduce new rasams as long as it does not go against the shariat.
This is where Sunni's flounder - they believe no bidats are allowed per se. But they and their leaders themselves have allowed bidats

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:06 pm

new rasams as long as it does not go against the shariat.
One would need to know shariat to make that declaration. You are no expert on shariah. You do not even know that shariat doesn't allow for pleasure killing of animals. Shariat doesn't allow sajda to human beings. Shariat doesn't prevent nafil prayers and taraweeh is a nafil prayer. And try refusing zakat payment to your Dai and see what happens!!

level_headed
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:02 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#36

Unread post by level_headed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:25 pm

Show me in the shariat where hunting is not allowed.

level_headed
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:02 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#37

Unread post by level_headed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:27 pm

taraweeh is not a nafil prayer - it is an imam led prayer . The Prophet had specified which are the imamat led prayers. Umar created a new imam led prayer.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:02 pm

The Prophet had specified which are the imamat led prayers.
In which book of hadith is this specified. Hopefully, I won't have to go through another invalid google search!! Did you know that the prophet (saw) led all the prophets in 2 rakats of prayer during his ascension? Has the prophet (saw) explicitly prohibited Imam led prayers other than the fard prayers? Have you ever read about how the taraweeh came into being?
Show me in the shariat where hunting is not allowed.
Show me in the shariah where hunting is allowed. Hamza hunting lions is not shariah!!

I told you to do a google search on "Hunting for pleasure in Islam". Did you do that?

By the way, why are you guys bent on making that which is haraam as halal just because your Dai is doing it? Even if it is not prohibited, don't you think hunting an animal for the sake of pleasure is despicable, when Allah says in the Quran that all animals are created as communities?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: FOR ADAM

#39

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:44 pm

level_headed wrote:This is where Sunni's flounder - they believe no bidats are allowed per se. But they and their leaders themselves have allowed bidats
Please substantiate your allegations with authentic verses of quran to prove that tarawih prayers are a biddat. In the same breath also prove that 2 rakat namaz for a living person is not a biddat !!

abde53
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#40

Unread post by abde53 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:58 pm

It is me or anybody notice that since Adam Bhai is not posting anything and i think it is 5 days, i have not see any posts from Al Zulfiaqr bhai
which makes think that may be Adam bhai and AZ bhai are one and same. i do not know or may be Adam bhai may be talking to Az bhai in private and giving him the true knowledge given by our Safiq Bawa TUS and i hope with wasila of our moula TUS and syedi wa moulai Muffadal BS TUS, Adam bhai may be able to get him to right path and bring him back.
so what do everyone thinks?

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#41

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:55 am

abde53 wrote:It is me or anybody notice that since Adam Bhai is not posting anything and i think it is 5 days, i have not see any posts from Al Zulfiaqr bhai
which makes think that may be Adam bhai and AZ bhai are one and same. i do not know or may be Adam bhai may be talking to Az bhai in private and giving him the true knowledge given by our Safiq Bawa TUS and i hope with wasila of our moula TUS and syedi wa moulai Muffadal BS TUS, Adam bhai may be able to get him to right path and bring him back.
so what do everyone thinks?
Hilarious :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#42

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:39 am

abde53 wrote:It is me or anybody notice that since Adam Bhai is not posting anything and i think it is 5 days, i have not see any posts from Al Zulfiaqr bhai
which makes think that may be Adam bhai and AZ bhai are one and same. i do not know or may be Adam bhai may be talking to Az bhai in private and giving him the true knowledge given by our Safiq Bawa TUS and i hope with wasila of our moula TUS and syedi wa moulai Muffadal BS TUS, Adam bhai may be able to get him to right path and bring him back.
so what do everyone thinks?
Knowing AZ I have a feeling that Adam may never reappear on this board because if Adam is talking to AZ he might still be trying to prove understand everyone's beliefs since Adam can not talk to anyone without knowing their belief it is like this while travelling to another country at the customs
Custom Officer (CO) Mr Adam which country are you coming from"
Adam Please tell me your belief first so I know whom am I talking to?
CO: What is the purpsoe of your visit?
Adam Please tell me your belief so I know what am I talking
CO How long do you plan to stay in the counrty?
Adam Please tell me your belief so I know how long should I stay
and it can go one long enough before Adam is taken and detained and Adam has no problem being an abde all his life he feels at home

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#43

Unread post by stranger » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:20 am

abde53 wrote: i do not know or may be Adam bhai may be talking to Az bhai in private and giving him the true knowledge given by our Safiq Bawa TUS and i hope with wasila of our moula TUS and syedi wa moulai Muffadal BS TUS, Adam bhai may be able to get him to right path and bring him back.
so what do everyone thinks?
hahahah :lol: If it happens then it should be considered as the greatest Moa'ziza so far. :mrgreen:

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#44

Unread post by progticide » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:18 am

anajmi wrote: Shariat doesn't prevent nafil prayers and taraweeh is a nafil prayer.
Anajmi,
So if Taraweeh is a nafil prayer, then why do you pray Taraweeh under Imamat? Who started this practice of offering nafil prayer under Imamat? Let everyone on this forum know who introduced the Taraaweeh prayers and what the Prophet (SAW) instructed on this Taraaweeh issue?

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#45

Unread post by Adam » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:12 am

I'm back :)
Thanks abde53 for words. But NO, I wasn't with AZ and I really don't care too much about him.
His silence maybe due to his confused state, doesn't know where he stands, or which religion to follow.

Here's what Progticide said:
Anajmi,
So if Taraweeh is a nafil prayer, then why do you pray Taraweeh under Imamat? Who started this practice of offering nafil prayer under Imamat? Let everyone on this forum know who introduced the Taraaweeh prayers and what the Prophet (SAW) instructed on this Taraaweeh issue?

The Prophet never prayed/led Tarweeh. Even Abu Bakr didn't do so, Umar is the one who made it up.
Only the following Namaaz can be led by Imamat as per Sunnah of the Prophet.
1. 5 Fard
2. Eid (Fitr & Adha)
3. Janaza
4. Eclipse

Note: There's nothing wrong with reciting Rakats (Praying Nawafil Namaaz) for as long as you want, or even reciting the entire Quran in them, as long as its not led by Imamat and considered a Fard.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#46

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:16 am

There is a difference of opinion as far as historical facts are concerned, and history as presented by Adam is not trustworthy. As per Sunni claims, the prophet (saw) led taraweeh prayers for 3 nights, but discontinued after that assuming that his Ummah might make it fard upon themselves if he continues. Hazrat Umar restarted it because there was no fear of it becoming a fard. It is not a fard namaz. One can participate in it if one chooses to. On nights that I do not participate in the mosque, I pray 20 rakats at home.

There is another valid reason for having organized this prayer as Imam led and I am grateful to Hazrat Umar for doing this. I get a chance to listen to the entire Quran while in prayer. If I were to pray by myself, and since I am not a hafiz-e-quran, I would only recite the surahs that I know.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#47

Unread post by Adam » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:08 pm

You missed out.
Taraweeh according to Fatimid beliefs is WRONG because :
1. Considered Fard (you say it's not a FarD according to you. That's your opinion, others DO vary. My Sunni friends say its a FarD and your Roza isn't Qabool without it.)
2. Lead by Imamat
According to Fatimid, only the above mentioned prayers can be lead by Imamat. NOTHING ELSE.
According to Fatimid texts, the Prophet was praying Nafilat namaaz, where a group started to follow him thinking it was Imamat, and he later clarified it to them.
You're citations about Prophet leading it 3 times according to Fatimid texts is incorrect.
We follow our sources. You follow yours. That's all it winds down to.
سلاما

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#48

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Bhai anajmi

Kaheko upne dimaag ka Bhoosa bana rahe ho! In Mushrik (as per porus) logo ke saath bahes kar ke.
Tarwi has been debated over and over.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#49

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:26 pm

Bro Muslim First,

You are correct. It has been established in many different ways that the Fatimid sources are erroneous and not in line with the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). But if people insist on following that which has been established to have been corrupted, there is nothing more you can do. You can look at the Dai for his unIslamic practices to figure out the quality of these Fatimid sources.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#50

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:34 pm

anajmi wrote:Bro Muslim First,

You are correct. It has been established in many different ways that the Fatimid sources are erroneous and not in line with the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). But if people insist on following that which has been established to have been corrupted, there is nothing more you can do. You can look at the Dai for his unIslamic practices to figure out the quality of these Fatimid sources.
[Shakir 2:18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back

SBM
Posts: 6241
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#51

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Taraweeh according to Fatimid beliefs is WRONG because :
1. Considered Fard (you say it's not a FarD according to you. That's your opinion, others DO vary. My SunniA friends say its a FarD and your Roza isn't Qabool without it.)
Adam
I do not which Sunni friends are you hanging around, Mulvi in the masjid I go to annouces that Taraweeh is not Fard and if one does not want to pray he or she can sit the back and just listen to recitation.
Time for you to get out of the box and see the real world.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#52

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:43 pm

It should also be remembered that Hazrat Ali (ra) never stopped the practice of taraweeh and been the Khalifa, I am sure he even led taraweeh prayers as there is no writing anywhere to prove otherwise.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: FOR ADAM

#53

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 pm

SBM wrote:
Taraweeh according to Fatimid beliefs is WRONG because :
1. Considered Fard (you say it's not a FarD according to you. That's your opinion, others DO vary. My SunniA friends say its a FarD and your Roza isn't Qabool without it.)
Adam
I do not which Sunni friends are you hanging around, Mulvi in the masjid I go to annouces that Taraweeh is not Fard and if one does not want to pray he or she can sit the back and just listen to recitation.
Time for you to get out of the box and see the real world.
Not only that many Arab brothers leave after completing 8 Rakat. Some of them go to side and finish Sunna and witr prayers. If it was fird then there would have been uniformity.