Dai First or Country First

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Dai First or Country First

#1

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:21 pm

I was readin Insaf saheb's post: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 132#p93643 and found this interesting nugget regarding how abdes pledge their jaan and maal to the Dai. One of the clauses says:
If Dai of the time calls upon you to war against his enemy then you should make war. Enemy of Dai is your enemy.
Now the question Insaf saheb asks is: If tomorrow the government of India takes action against Dai, Indian government wil become the enemy of the Dai. In that situation will Indian abdes declare war on India?
In another thread, pesticide has shown us his fulsome devotion to the Dai by saying that anyone who harms or thinks of harming the Dai is shaitaan. So will it mean the Indian government is shaitaan?
Indian abdes let us know where your loyalties lie. Who comes first, your Dai or your Country?

SBM
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dai First or Country First

#2

Unread post by SBM » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:33 pm

Humsafar wrote:I was readin Insaf saheb's post: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 132#p93643 and found this interesting nugget regarding how abdes pledge their jaan and maal to the Dai. One of the clauses says:
If Dai of the time calls upon you to war against his enemy then you should make war. Enemy of Dai is your enemy.
Now the question Insaf saheb asks is: If tomorrow the government of India takes action against Dai, Indian government wil become the enemy of the Dai. In that situation will Indian abdes declare war on India?
In another thread, pesticide has shown us his fulsome devotion to the Dai by saying that anyone who harms or thinks of harming the Dai is shaitaan. So will it mean the Indian government is shaitaan?
Indian abdes let us know where your loyalties lie. Who comes first, your Dai or your Country?
Is not the Saudi Govt is already an enemy of Dawat, they would not allow to build Zarih for which Kothari Goons have collected all the Gold, I thought
Kothar is already at war with Saudi who would not allow free access to Syedna during his visit and was limited to his hotel room to view Jannat Ul Baqih
So all the Abde Regressive should leave Saudi and pick up the arms against them. Same thing is true for Kuwait where the government would not allow a DB Masjid

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Dai First or Country First

#3

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:48 pm

I have heard in many vaezes " hubbul vatan e min al Iman" but never heard " Hubbul dai min al Iman". But if the Gov't of India or anyother Gov't takes anyaction against the Dai, then the dai, his zaada, kothari goons, the whole al vazarat us saifiyah will drum up such a frenzy and hysteria with faxes, telegrams, protest marches, speeches from each member of every jamaat from all over the world that the Gov't will back down with the fear of losing next election. Didn't this already happen in 1977/78 with the Gov't appointed Nathwani Commission? so much hysteria was created that nothing of the commission's finding were implemented and the Gov't backed off. They know how to utilize effectively the people power to their advantage.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Dai First or Country First

#4

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:18 pm

Good point SBM. Technically abdes are at war with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, but seem to be in no mood to take up arms against these enemies of Dawat. Come on abdes, you must start taking your pledge of allegiance to the Dai seriously. Or are we to assume that this oath is not worth the lips it has escaped from?

Kaka Akela, you're right. Money, power and propaganda are their real weapons - and have always been for corrupt and illegitimate regimes.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Dai First or Country First

#5

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:23 am

Sayedna Saheb and his family is not at war with Kuwait government, infact they are considered national guest when they visit Kuwait.

Objection of Kuwait Government is with certain demands of bohras.which is to have an exclusive rights over Masjid administration by Bohra Leaders only, without any intervention from Islamic Ministry or Awqaaf.

All Masjids in Kuwait are monitored and managed by Government, although considering distinct community identity of bohra in the country, Kuwait government may allow a bohra masjid, however open to all for prayers (which bohra too have no objection) but literature kept, shared and preached in the masjid has to be verified by the government Islamic Authorities. Specially with Jumaa Prayers (kutba) and ofcourse regular majaalis held in the masjid.

Bohras cannot demand a masjid and run it as community centre. For other activities they have Diwaaniyaas and Hussainiyas (muharram gatherings)

Also there could be many other activities which would be monitored such as collection and accountability of funds. Kuwait government does not allow collection of funds from public without explicit knowledge of its cause and use.

Kuwait jamaat heavily bribes ministers in the government to keep bohra activities (religious and administrative) floating.

During 100th Milaad celebrations, a procession was led out onto the streets of Salmiya in Kuwait, Kuwaiti Cops got confused with Burahani Guards dressed in Khaki uniforms representing something as a police force controlling the processions and general traffic, Kuwaiti cops got pissed off and reprimanded them to act in public without consent, they were arrested and released after few hours when misunderstanding was cleared.

Relationship of bohra community with outsiders is of “mukh-par-ram-bagal-mein-churi”

At one hand when members of sayedna sahib’s family visit Kuwait in Ramadan or Muharram, they would preach loyality to the country of livelihood, and majority of bohra community (including rich sheikhs and jamaat) indulges in illegal money transfer through hawala, harming both the countries which provides more tolerant harbor for bohra to live and prosper.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dai First or Country First

#6

Unread post by JC » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:46 pm

What if abdes have to choose from DAI or MONEY ...???!!!!

Dai and his goons teach money is more important, no money, no maula, so money is essential. That is the reason abdes will not go to war ,,,, dah.... or even leave Saudi Arabia or middle east.

Abdes are cowards like their masters .......... both will show cowardice every time, every where.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dai First or Country First

#7

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri May 11, 2012 6:42 pm

A similar thread should be started but with a different title i.e. "Dai First or Ummah First", in light of his extra lovey dovey relationship with narendra modi who is responsible for the mass killings of Ummatis.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dai First or Country First

#8

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Humsafar wrote: If Dai of the time calls upon you to war against his enemy then you should make war. Enemy of Dai is your enemy.
Now the question Insaf saheb asks is: If tomorrow the government of India takes action against Dai, Indian government wil become the enemy of the Dai. In that situation will Indian abdes declare war on India?
In another thread, pesticide has shown us his fulsome devotion to the Dai by saying that anyone who harms or thinks of harming the Dai is shaitaan. So will it mean the Indian government is shaitaan?
Indian abdes let us know where your loyalties lie. Who comes first, your Dai or your Country?
Through Misaq the takers of Misaq is made to accept absolute authority of the Dai in advance in all religious, secular, social and personal matters. The Misaq taker is made to give an advance commitment to disown his close relations like father, mother, brother, sister, wife, husband, children, friends etc. when asked to do so by the Dai.

The altered Misaq in the form in which it is taken since the time of 51st Bohra Dai, Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb makes every Dawoodi Bohra only a slave, not of Allah but of the Dai.

After taking such a Misaq a true Dawoodi Bohra becomes an offender of not only the laws of his country but also against the laws of Allah. He cannot tell the truth in the court of law when he or she has to appear as witness against the Dai. He cannot criticize Syedna, his Shahzadas or Amils in private or in public and continues being exploited and tortured by them. In short he has to mortgage his entire life to the Dai.

That is why Syedna Saheb keeps on repeating "Be loyal to the laws of your country". [/i]This is to hide the fact that the Dawoodi Bohras who are loyal to Syedna Saheb can not be loyal to their country in case they have to report any illegal activities being carried out in his name by his agents.

Therefore this Misaq has made the Dai, his family members, his Amils and other staff members most arrogant, ruthless and fearless on one hand and Bohras their helpless slaves on the other hand.