Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

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progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#1

Unread post by progticide » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:11 am

Progressives,

Without meaning any offence or disrespect, I want to ask you a very simple question;

Who is the most learned cleric (alive) among the progressives who the progressives deem to be having highest authority over your religious matters?

Ahmedali was considered to be the final authority on your religious issues while he was alive. So after his death, who among the progressive clergy is considered to be having highest qualification and knowledge of Islam and Sharia and Ismaili doctrines, whose word would be almost final for progressives in all matters pertaining to your religious beliefs.

I again repeat that I am seeking only the name of the person that the progressives consider the most learned and qualified in your community.
I do not want names of self-proclaimed scholars/educationist/researchers, since they do not hold any authority. I am specifically asking for name(s) of cleric(s) whom the regular progressives would approach for their religious/spiritual issues.

Anyone thinking of posting sarcastic comments or abuse/ridicule simply to register their presence on this thread, kindly excuse us. Please grace other threads with your views and leave this one for genuine responders.

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#2

Unread post by Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:44 am

progticide wrote:Progressives,

Without meaning any offence or disrespect, I want to ask you a very simple question;

Who is the most learned cleric (alive) among the progressives who the progressives deem to be having highest authority over your religious matters?

Ahmedali was considered to be the final authority on your religious issues while he was alive. So after his death, who among the progressive clergy is considered to be having highest qualification and knowledge of Islam and Sharia and Ismaili doctrines, whose word would be almost final for progressives in all matters pertaining to your religious beliefs.

I again repeat that I am seeking only the name of the person that the progressives consider the most learned and qualified in your community.
I do not want names of self-proclaimed scholars/educationist/researchers, since they do not hold any authority. I am specifically asking for name(s) of cleric(s) whom the regular progressives would approach for their religious/spiritual issues.

Anyone thinking of posting sarcastic comments or abuse/ridicule simply to register their presence on this thread, kindly excuse us. Please grace other threads with your views and leave this one for genuine responders.
1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
etc.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#3

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:58 am

Just to add, these learned men keep us away from the shirk and kufr of human worship.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#4

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:02 am

Brother PG
One billion Muslim in this world are living without a central authority. Here is how one famous author describes Muslims
A Muslim lives in a world without clergy and without religious hierarchy; when he prays he does not pray via Jesus, Mary or other interceding saints, but directly to God-as fully emancipated believer-and this in a religion free of mysteries. An atmosphere of this kind suits the modern democratic citizen come of age far better than the wondrous, mystery stricken atmosphere of Byzantine and Catholic Churches, geared towards “Intercession” and focusing sacraments administered by clergymen
Allow me to rephrase above for your sect
A DB Muslim Cannot live in a world without clergy and without religious hierarchy; when he prays he does pray via Maulana, Hiding Imam or other interceding saints like Hussein, Fatema, Ali Etc, but never directly to God-as fully captivated believer-and this in a religion full of mysteries. An atmosphere of this kind suits the modern Bohra citizen come of age far better than the wondrous, atmosphere of open Masajids, geared towards direct worship of Allah and not focusing sacraments administered by clergymen

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#5

Unread post by Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:03 am

Who are the most qualified Shabab clerics to practice and preach the true tenets of Fatimi Dawat?

Remember Kothar Inc do not follow, indeed do opposite to the command of tenets of Fatimi Dawat.

Example)
1. Bade Mulla Taher Saifuddin saheb spoke lies in the court of Justice Martin - first contended that he is Allah and later he contended he is not Allah. So, in either case he spoke lie.

2. None of the Mustakar & Mustoda Nabi, Imam, Hujjat, Dai-al-Mutlaq from birth of Earth till 46th rightful Dai Mutlaq - none of them left their sketches, photos, image, etc in fear that Mumineen may start its worship. Against the established practice of all - Kothar Inc promotes photo hanging on walls, in wallets, in amulet, in vehicle... This practice of Kothar Inc is against the established practice of all Nabi, Imams and rightful Dai's.

3. Aaka Abd a Ali Saifuddin (R) commanded to give all accounts of Dawat to all Mumineen. Does Kothar Inc gives any accounts to anyone?

4. Kothar Inc. accepts money in form of Salam from their our Mumineen who are in the state of con. They never check the source of funds, just intake whatever money comes in thus they promote blackmoney in society - 'Hubbe watan imaan ka osool hai', Kothar by accepting Salam's practice opposite to osool-a-Imaan.

5. This full forum is filled with Kothar anti-Fatimi Dawat practices.

Hence, please advise, who is the most qualified Shabab clerk who follows true Fatimi Dawat tenets?

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#6

Unread post by think » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:44 am

also be it known that the dai is just an upfront figure head. All decisions on matters of dawat are taken by a group comprising lawyers, accountants ,the dai's sons and others well connected with society. There is no one person making decisions.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#7

Unread post by Adam » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:50 am

I am specifically asking for name(s) of cleric(s) whom the regular progressives would approach for their religious/spiritual issues.

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala


It's nice to hear you have these people to follow. I've never heard of them before (my bad). I should first look them up and then comment.
Just to clarify: All these 5 Gentlemen are PROGGY "authority" who would be "approached for religious/spiritual issues."? Correct?

1. Are they all of supposedly Dawoodi Bohra belief? (Until the 46th Dai?)
2. Are they all correct in their guidance? No doubt about it? If not, what happens when one of them isn't all correct, who has the final judgement?



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:22 pm

2. Are they all correct in their guidance? No doubt about it? If not, what happens when one of them isn't all correct, who has the final judgement?
You should ask this question to yourself. Do you have any doubts about your Dai being correct? What happens if he isn't correct? Since you have only one authority, if he is wrong, you are well and truly screwed!!

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#9

Unread post by Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:24 pm

Adam wrote:
I am specifically asking for name(s) of cleric(s) whom the regular progressives would approach for their religious/spiritual issues.

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala


It's nice to hear you have these people to follow. I've never heard of them before (my bad). I should first look them up and then comment.
Just to clarify: All these 5 Gentlemen are PROGGY "authority" who would be "approached for religious/spiritual issues."? Correct?

1. Are they all of supposedly Dawoodi Bohra belief? (Until the 46th Dai?)
2. Are they all correct in their guidance? No doubt about it? If not, what happens when one of them isn't all correct, who has the final judgement?


References looked in authentic Fatimi Dawat literature, example) Daim ul Islam, etc

Please advise: Who are the most qualified Shabab clerics to practice and preach the true tenets of Fatimi Dawat?

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#10

Unread post by shabbir4u » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:18 pm

anajmi wrote:
2. Are they all correct in their guidance? No doubt about it? If not, what happens when one of them isn't all correct, who has the final judgement?
You should ask this question to yourself. Do you have any doubts about your Dai being correct? What happens if he isn't correct? Since you have only one authority, if he is wrong, you are well and truly screwed!!

My Friend Anajmi
Let me tell you we (Dawoodi Bohra) dont have a single doubts in Our Aqa maula. He is always right and we don't have doubts in him.One cannot think doubts in Dai.Dai is always right that why he is dai. why we ask for raza and dua because he is dai and we don't have doubts in him.

Progressive is always in doubts they will be and always in their life .Pls come out from doubts and see what are you guys missing.(dai) If you accept Aqa Maula then their is no doubts. you wont think that way always.

shukran,
Wasalaam

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:54 pm

If you accept my Dai Futlak without doubting, then you will have no doubts and you will stop thinking. If you think, you have doubts, my Dai Futlak will make you incapable of thinking so you won't have any doubts but you have to first accept him by paying him and kissing his feet.

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#12

Unread post by shabbir4u » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 pm

anajmi wrote:If you accept my Dai Futlak without doubting, then you will have no doubts and you will stop thinking. If you think, you have doubts, my Dai Futlak will make you incapable of thinking so you won't have any doubts but you have to first accept him by paying him and kissing his feet.
My best advice is that you need to visit emergency ASAP.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#13

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:12 pm

My Dai Futlak has just given me emergency phook nu pani and with his karam and ehsan I am now fine thank you.

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#14

Unread post by shabbir4u » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:15 pm

anajmi wrote:My Dai Futlak has just given me emergency phook nu pani and with his karam and ehsan I am now fine thank you.
No you are not fine you still have doubts. need to go
emergency right NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#15

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:38 pm

I have no doubt in my Dai Futlak after phook nu pani. My Dai Futlak has made me incapable of thinking. No thinking means no doubts.

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#16

Unread post by shabbir4u » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:53 pm

anajmi wrote:I have no doubt in my Dai Futlak after phook nu pani. My Dai Futlak has made me incapable of thinking. No thinking means no doubts.

So you are Incapable.I knew that you are INCAPABLE.INCAPBLE MEANS THAT YOU ARE IN DOUBTS THAT YOU ARE INCAPBLE.Now you are in no doubts but you are incapble.its means that you are in doubts noiw to remove doubts you should not be incapble to do so you need to think but you cannot think because you have doubt that you are incapble to do so you need to think that are you a capable or not to do so you need to think before you think u need to make sure that you are doubts free to do that you should be able to think before think you need to be that you should be doubt free to do that you should be able to think to do that you should be capable to think. before you think you need to put your head on shoulder but you are not capable to think because you are in doubts.

its like banging head on the wall to these people.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#17

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:03 pm

shabbir4u wrote:So you are Incapable.I knew that you are INCAPABLE.INCAPBLE MEANS THAT YOU ARE IN DOUBTS THAT YOU ARE INCAPBLE.Now you are in no doubts but you are incapble.its means that you are in doubts noiw to remove doubts you should not be incapble to do so you need to think but you cannot think because you have doubt that you are incapble to do so you need to think that are you a capable or not to do so you need to think before you think u need to make sure that you are doubts free to do that you should be able to think before think you need to be that you should be doubt free to do that you should be able to think to do that you should be capable to think. before you think you need to put your head on shoulder but you are not capable to think because you are in doubts.

its like banging head on the wall to these people.
No wonder anajmi calls people like you 'abde idiots', you fail to see his tongue-in-cheek comments which are actually directed to you and your state of mind............... The only sensible quote you made was "Its like banging head on the walls to these people", which actually describes you to perfection !!

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#18

Unread post by shabbir4u » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:25 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
shabbir4u wrote:So you are Incapable.I knew that you are INCAPABLE.INCAPBLE MEANS THAT YOU ARE IN DOUBTS THAT YOU ARE INCAPBLE.Now you are in no doubts but you are incapble.its means that you are in doubts noiw to remove doubts you should not be incapble to do so you need to think but you cannot think because you have doubt that you are incapble to do so you need to think that are you a capable or not to do so you need to think before you think u need to make sure that you are doubts free to do that you should be able to think before think you need to be that you should be doubt free to do that you should be able to think to do that you should be capable to think. before you think you need to put your head on shoulder but you are not capable to think because you are in doubts.

its like banging head on the wall to these people.
No wonder anajmi calls people like you 'abde idiots', you fail to see his tongue-in-cheek comments which are actually directed to you and your state of mind............... The only sensible quote you made was "Its like banging head on the walls to these people", which actually describes you to perfection !!

So you came with another ID how many ID you have for this forum.
And you are right about this Quote
The only sensible quote you made was "Its like banging head on the walls to these people", which actually describes you to perfection !![/quote]

Its mean leave them alone its said dog tail cannot be straight we will try as many time but you guys will not be straight.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#19

Unread post by Adam » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:09 pm

@Doctor (Since he's the only Proggy I know on this Forum)

References looked in authentic Fatimi Dawat literature, example) Daim ul Islam, etc


What is those references are not found "explicitly" in the Daim (or any other sources), like praying Namaaz in a Plane? Where would you look then? Rai & Qiyas (guess work)? (That is not acceptable according to Fatimid belief)

Please advise: Who are the most qualified Shabab clerics to practice and preach the true tenets of Fatimi Dawat?

Thai Dai.
I'm surprised you even asked that.
If the Amil has any question, it is forwarded upwards.

We have someone to guide us, which is what everyone else is lacking. Sad story indeed :)

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#20

Unread post by Adam » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:10 pm

Anajmi
Would LOVE to hear your comments on the following people

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#21

Unread post by profastian » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:45 am

Adam wrote:Anajmi
Would LOVE to hear your comments on the following people

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
You are asking the impossible.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#22

Unread post by profastian » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:46 am

Adam wrote:Anajmi
Would LOVE to hear your comments on the following people

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
You are asking the impossible. Anajmi only comments on the Dawoodi bohras and their DAI because of a childhood disorder.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#23

Unread post by progticide » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:53 am

Doctor wrote: 1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
etc.
Doctor saheb,
Appreciate your "to the point" response. Still dont understand why you decided to unnecessarily make the next comment after this. I had not written anything about progressive clerics or DB clerics, good or bad, or any other comparison comment or derogatory remarks for anyone above.

It was a simple question which you did answer appropriately, but maybe the environment that you are currently living in and the kind of people you are dealing with caused you to write the next unwanted post.

Just think about it. Even before questioning us on what we were trying to achieve by asking you about your clerics, you have gone ahead lock-stock-barrel in your abuse campaign only to be joined by others who have nothing in common with you, except hatred for DBs. These people dont even share your DB faith and beliefs, and this has been proved beyond doubt in another topic which you are aware of.

Looking at the responses above, I dont feel like taking the discussion ahead on this topic anymore
.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:46 am

We have someone to guide us, which is what everyone else is lacking. Sad story indeed
I too have my Dai Futlak guiding me.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#25

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:23 am

Hey pesticide, you chickening out of this one. What happened to your big, pompous talk? You came out swinging to expose the real, no-dai-worshippping Dawoodi Bohras but instead got caught with your pants down. :)
ye kya ke ik teer-e-malmat na seh sakay
honi hai ku-ba-koo abhi ruswaii dostoN

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:34 am

Adam wrote:Anajmi
Would LOVE to hear your comments on the following people

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
Do these people practice feet kissing and charging money for feet kissing?
Do the progressives sing sajda tujhe wajib hai for these people?
Do the progressives do sajda to these people?
Do the progressives stand with folded hands in front of these people?
Do the progressives put pictures of these people everywhere in their homes?
Do the progressives pay these people for raza for every little thing like visiting the john?
Do the progressives pay zakat, wajebat, sadaqa and other such extortion to these people?
Do the progressives carry these people around in palkhis singing ghanu jeevo ghanu jeevo?
Do the progressives claim that they will enter jannah only if they have safai chitthi from these people?

And there are many more such unIslamic practices that I can list. The answers to all of these is most likely negative. By following these people the progressives have avoided a lot of roads leading straight to shirk.

And hence I do not have any comments about these people. I will only comment on Dai Mutlak vis a vis my Dai Futlak.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#27

Unread post by Adam » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:52 am

Haha!
Was expecting an answer like that from anajmi :)
Makes what progticide said very true :
You are asking the impossible. Anajmi only comments on the Dawoodi bohras and their DAI because of a childhood disorder.


P.S, IF these people are actually Proggies
These people supposedly believe in an Imam. (Which you really hate)
These people supposedly gave Sajda to the Dais before them (Like Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin RA)

So, no comment now?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:37 am

These people supposedly believe in an Imam. (Which you really hate)
I don't hate a non existent Imam.
These people supposedly gave Sajda to the Dais before them (Like Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin RA)
Well, they have now progressed. You should do the same.

SBM
Posts: 6238
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#29

Unread post by SBM » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:47 pm

Anajmi
Well, they have now progressed. You should do the same.
Very well said Br Anajmi

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

#30

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:01 pm

Adam wrote:We have someone to guide us, which is what everyone else is lacking. Sad story indeed
The talibans too have someone to guide them so do Agha khanis and Ahmediyas, which is what everyone else is lacking. Sad story indeed !!!