Sajdah - us Shukr

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<br>I might also add<p>What a waste of time and Ink<p>

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Dear Anajmi,<br>Where has person who follows the Dai ever said they were doing sajad as'sukar to the Dai or to anyone. Sajad as'sukar is a prostration of thanks TO Allah, not to the Dai. The prostration of thanks maybe FOR the Dai, but the thanks is TO Allah. Just as your example...the Pakistani did sajad as'sukar for the cricket team..but it was to thank Allah.<p>Please read over my posts again...in fact read the very first post on this thread...everytime I stated when done for a human is a sukar to Allah for bringing this person in front of them.<p>Remember we don't just respect Allah..this is an insult to His Glory...we worship Him. But you do sajad as'sukar for a person out of respect for him...but it is still thanking Allah for creating that person.<p>I would think performing a prostration of thanks for Sayedna is more worthing than one for a cricket team..wouldn't you? But you seem to have no problem with the cricket team.

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Dear MuslimFirst,<br>Your amazing in the fact that you haven't read half the posted on this topic.<p>Read the first one....it is exactly the same as the last. The sajad as'sukar is not the same as the sujud in namaz..your example is completely irrevelant. You don't take a niyyat, wudhu is not required, your clothes don't have to be tahir, and you're not doing a tasbih of Allah in the sajad as'sukar.<p>Most of the post have been arguing if just being in sujud is worship..and it is not.<p>

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I pronounce this debate dead.<p>On balance, I think that those who oppose sajda to Sayedna and other humans have made a better case.<p>Qiyam's justifies sajda to Dai on the basis of historical precedents which cannot be completely authenticated. The ayat re Nabi Yusuf quoted in justification (Yusuf's parents doing sajda to him) is vary vague and considering the message of the Quraan, it is doubtful if prostration to other than Allah would be allowed by Allah, let alone prostrating by parents to a son. Remember, father was a nabi too.<p>Qiyam's argument is contrived. You bow down to someone else when thanking Allah for that person.<p>People constantly thank SAllah for their parents, children etc. But they do not make a habit of bowing down before them.<p>I think that Qiyam has not made a good case. And the ethos of Islam the world over appears to justify the case of his opponents.

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Dear Bro Porus,<p>I agree with you. There is no point in continuing cause nothing new is been said. The same thing is been repeated over and over again.

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Al hamdullah...may the Allah grant you wisdom for following your own conclusion and not practicing the Quran or sunnah.<p>Br. Anajmi nice job in agreeing with someone (Porus) who has stated time and again in not believing in God to begin with.<p>The Quran according to you all in now vague and unclear. Even when I provide hadiths of the Prophet and Imams support the action...because you don't understand..it must not be correct.<p>"Qiyam's justifies sajda to Dai on the basis of historical precedents which cannot be completely authenticated.."<p>Historical precedents..yes the historical precedents in the Quran and sunnah. Authenticated in what manner... by you???<p>"People constantly thank Allah for their parents, children etc..."<p>Yes...and this is why the Prophet said that at the feet (qadam) of our parents is jannah.<p>And in my last post..I quoted from the sunni Fiqh us'Sunnah with hadiths from sunni Imams Bukhari and Muslim. In what way does the sunni hadiths differ from the shiah ones? Both say Sajadah as'Sukar is valid. You can do sujud for someone or something as a thanking of Allah. This is what I have been writing from the beginning. No spin.<p>I would to finish with one point...no one has answered or even attempted to answer my question...IS THERE EVEN ONE AYAT OR HADITH NOT ALLOWING THE PERFORMANCE OF SAJAD AS'SUKAR AS I HAVE EXPLAINED IT!!!???<p>SADLY NO.<p>

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Dear Bro Qiyam,<p>There is one question that I posted time and again which you refused to answer "IS THERE EVEN ONE AYAT OR HADITH ASKING FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF SAJAD AS'SUKAR AS YOU HAVE EXPLAINED IT!!!???<br>

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Dear Bro Qiyam,<p>There is one question that I posted time and again which you refused to answer "IS THERE EVEN ONE AYAT OR HADITH ASKING FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF SAJAD AS'SUKAR AS YOU HAVE EXPLAINED IT!!!???<br>

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Dear Bro Qiyam,<p>And I have no problems in agreeing with someone if one is right. Whether he believes in the Quran or Allah or not. Unlike some who are so biased that they will not see the truth coming out from someone other than themselves.

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Dear Bro Qiyam,<p>Are you now saying that the Quran is completely clear. Cause I remember you saying that it is not clear and only some people can see the clarity whoever they may be. If you say you are the one, I will not debate.<p>You said you were following by example, I asked whose example are you following, is it the panjatan pak, who never performed Sajda to anybody other than Allah or is it the angels who were ordered to perform Sajda only to Adam (as) or is it the parents or Yusuf Nabi, the intent of which only Allah knows, or is it some bedoin (I cannot spell it correctly) who bowed down in front of the prophet?

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<br>You had your last say br. qiyam<p>Assalam-o-alaikum<p>

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Qiyam<p>"Br. Anajmi nice job in agreeing with someone (Porus) who has stated time and again in not believing in God to begin with."<p>I have not made any statement regarding MY belief in God. I have talked about beliefs in general and said that they are not the truth.<p><p>

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Dear Br. Anajmi,<br>I did answer your question several times..the action of sajad as'sukar is sunnah. Some consider performing the sunnah as wajib. It is not fardh (such as salat is).<p>And yes..I provided many ayats and hadiths displaying the performance of sajad as'sukar as I have explained it, hadiths both from sunni and shia sources.<p>None of these references require you to do it as fardh...but there is none also that don't allow you to do it. <p>Let me repeat:<br>None of these references require you to do it as fardh...but there is none also that don't allow you to do it.<p>And in the end...this is the point. I have not said you must do this...but because it is sunnah to do it...it can be considered wajib and you cannot say I or anyone else is wrong in doing it.<p>Regarding Porus...I have on another thread gone through a discussion and came to and aggrement with him....only leading to him to obliterating the entire discussion by negating the basic origin of the discussion...belief in God.<p>"Are you now saying that the Quran is completely clear. Cause I remember you saying that it is not clear and only some people can see the clarity whoever they may be. If you say you are the one, I will not debate."<p>---No I am not saying this, but when the Prophet and Imams explain the meanings of the ayats to clarify...well then the point is clarified...not by me.<p>"You said you were following by example, I asked whose example are you following, is it the panjatan pak, who never performed Sajda to anybody other than Allah..."<p>---This is a partially false statement. In the hadiths I provided the Prophet and Imams did performed sajadah as'sukar as I described it.<p>"...or is it the angels who were ordered to perform Sajda only to Adam (as).."<p>---According to the hadiths of our Imams..the sajad they performed was sajad as'sukar, out of respect for Adam Nabi and sukar (thankfulness) to Allah.<p>"...or is it the parents or Yusuf Nabi, the intent of which only Allah knows,..."<p>---It is written right in the ayat why they performed the sajadah...out of gratefullness...and in the end everything is with Allah.<p>"...or is it some bedoin (I cannot spell it correctly) who bowed down in front of the prophet?"<p>---The Prophet in this hadith asked the beduions not to perform the sajadah as'sukar because they were new converts and they make think they are worshipping Prophet. So he let them do qadam bosi instead.

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Dear Bro Qiyam,<p>I am getting tired of this and every point that you make over here has been debated, and I would add, conclusively, and in rebuttal you post the same points again. So I guess I am outta here.

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<br>Br. qiyam<p>Your time will better spent doing sujud to Syedan's Photograph. Make sure you do Niya to for thank to Allah.<p>Wasalaam<p>

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I’m sure we all have more things to add, refute and discuss. I don't see this dialogue (haggling) ever ending. Let's take a short break and do it some other time - say next quarter or something. Truce now!<p>Peace to All.

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Hey MF, try and uplift your own sunni community before you attempt to do it to others. People living in glass houses....you know the rest.