Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#1

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Thu May 17, 2012 4:35 am

32nd Dai-Al-Mutlaq Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed Bin Syedna Dawood Qutubshah RA
Birth : 30th Zilqad-il-Haram 985 H., Ahmedabad

Shahadat : 27th Jamad-il-Ukhra
Duration Of Dawat : 2 Years

Dai-Al-Mutlaq Syedna QasimKhan Zainuddin (R.A) bestowed 'Nass' on Dai-Al-Mutlaq Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin (R.A). He is the only Dai with the honour of 'Shahadat'(martyrdom) amongst Duat Mutlaqeen. Just as Imam Husain(AS) was bestowed with the honour of saving Islam through martyrdom, so also Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed (R.A) got the honour of martyrdom at Ahmedabad, which is also known as small Karbala(the place of martyrdom of Imam Husain(AS)).

He accompanied Syedna Dawood bin QutubShah (R.A) to Lahore as a trusted aide and confidant. Syedna Shaikh Adam Safiyuddin (R.A) had bestowed on him the Rutbah of Haddiyat. Syedna Qasim Khan Zainuddin (R.A) had appointed him in Rutbah of Mazoon, and then later, bestowed Nass on Him.

Syedna Zainuddin (R.A) when performing Nass on Him gave 'Bushra of Shahadat'(foretold of his martyrdom). Similarly His father Syedna Dawood bin QutubShah (R.A) also gave Bushra of Shahadat.

Rasulallah (SA) had prophesied the martyrdaom of Syedna Qutbuddin al-Shaheed. His father (Syedna Dawood bin Qutubshah (RA)) had also foretold of his shahaadat when Molana Qutbuddin was still infant.

Molana ascended the takht of D`awat, upheld its tenets, raising aloft its banner - no less than twenty two Mumineen mohallas were vibrant at this time. The enemies of D`awat were unable to stomach seeing these shaanaat.

These enemies, namely the likes of Qasim Aandhlo, Abdul Ghavii and Aurangzeb (l.a.) conspired to murder Syedna Qutbuddin.1 Syedna Qutbuddin was executed under the charge of being a 'raafzi' (one who has deviated from the path of Islam), a charge which Molana refuted by saying that; far from being a 'raafzi' - he was upon the essence of the 'Sunnah'. Molana chose martyrdom over admittance to such a charge.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#2

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu May 17, 2012 5:21 am

Rasulallah (SA) had prophesied the martyrdaom of Syedna Qutbuddin al-Shaheed.
Any proof or just smoke and mirror?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#3

Unread post by stranger » Thu May 17, 2012 5:51 am

No offence to dawoodi bohra belief but Similarly,
Alavi Bohras believes that the prophesied one was their 29th Da'i : ALI BIN IBRAHIM

http://alavibohra.org/SAIYEDNA%20ALI.htm

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#4

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu May 17, 2012 11:28 am

Aap Hindustan na Du’at ma pehla shaheed che. Rasool-e-Akram (SAWA) ye farmaayo ke “1000 saal na matha par Hind ma mahari dawat na Nas na saheb deen ni hifaazat waste shaheed thase. Aa mahara saheb haqq par hase ane tenaa dushmano baatil (juth) par hase.”
What a tragedy.

Alvis and Dawoodis are getting away by ascribing white lies to Prophet SAW. And it goes unchallanged by Abdes. Only cult members will not challange lies.

Abdes

when you go to listen to Waez, Do you leave your brain at home. or disconnet it?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu May 17, 2012 2:54 pm

MurtazaVds wrote:Rasulallah (SA) had prophesied the martyrdaom of Syedna Qutbuddin al-Shaheed
Strech.... Stretch...... Stretch, in Bro Humsafar's words.

Muslim First
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Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#6

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu May 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Br MurtazaVds
since it is your post. you must have backup info on this hadith.
When, where, Insad of narrators etc.

Ask Adam, Porgie or Profie or null wala.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#7

Unread post by think » Fri May 18, 2012 12:31 pm

the whole idea of urus for various dai's is a political agenda of the kothar. Probably next in line would be the urus of the Dai's wife and so on. Nobody is interested in the urus of Ibrahim nabi or ismail nabi or ishaaq nabi or issa nabi. but are too fond of celebrating uruses of dais. Now a days mumineen are even celebrating the birthday's of the hot shot Amil of karachi in a big way. Kuwait mumineen are celebrating the birthday of an eighteen year old ,because he is the so called "royal blood". Do you see where this will lead in the future.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#8

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sat May 19, 2012 1:02 pm

MurtazaVds wrote: These enemies, namely the likes of Qasim Aandhlo, Abdul Ghavii and Aurangzeb (l.a.) conspired to murder Syedna Qutbuddin.1 Syedna Qutbuddin was executed under the charge of being a 'raafzi' (one who has deviated from the path of Islam), a charge which Molana refuted by saying that; far from being a 'raafzi' - he was upon the essence of the 'Sunnah'. Molana chose martyrdom over admittance to such a charge.
One should desist from cursing muslims after their death,Aurangzeb (rah) ruled for almost 60 years - the longest serving Ruler in the History of India. He tried to purge the mughal empire of its luxurious and autocratic ways as he himself lived a very austere life unlike the fatemi daees which rule like modern maviyas.

here is an excerpt of his last will recorded by Maulvi Hamid-ud Din in chapter 8 of his hand written book in Persian about the life of Aurangzeb:

My servant, Aya Beg, has my purse in which I have carefully kept my earnings of 4 Rs and 2 annas. In my spare time I have been writing the Koran and stitching caps. It was by selling the caps that I made an honest earning of 4 Rs and 2 annas. My coffin should be purchased with this amount. No other money should be spent for covering the body of a sinner. This is my dying wish. By selling the copies of the Koran I collected 305 Rs. That money is also with Aya Beg. It is my will that poor Mohammedans should be fed with sweet rice purchased by this money.
All my articles - clothes, ink stand, pens and books should be given to my son Azam. The labour charges for digging my grave will be paid by Prince Azam.
My grave should be dug in a dense forest. When I am buried my face should remain uncovered. Do not bury my face in earth. I want to present myself to Allah with a naked face. I am told whoever goes to the supreme court with a naked face will have his sins forgiven.
My coffin should be made of thick Khaddar. Do not place a costly shawl on the corpse. The route of my funeral should not be showered with flowers. No one should be permitted to place any flowers on my body. No music should be played or sung, I hate music.

No tomb should be built for me. Only a chabootra or platform may be erected.
I have not been able to pay the salaries of my soldiers and my personal servants for several months. I bequeath that after my death at least my personal servants be paid in full as the treasury is empty. Niamat Ali has served my very faithfully he has cleaned my body and has never let my bed remain dirty.
No mausoleum should be raised in my memory. No stone with my name should be placed at my grave. There should be no trees planted near the grave

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#9

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat May 19, 2012 1:15 pm

Br Aliabbas
It is useless to post praising anybody who DBs consider Dushman of Dawat. All of them want remain in fold so they can enjoy Kharas and Mithas. It will serve cause of Islam if you just present info based on Quran and authentic Sunnah.
Wasalaam

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#10

Unread post by Doctor » Sat May 19, 2012 3:08 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:
MurtazaVds wrote: These enemies, namely the likes of Qasim Aandhlo, Abdul Ghavii and Aurangzeb (l.a.) conspired to murder Syedna Qutbuddin.1 Syedna Qutbuddin was executed under the charge of being a 'raafzi' (one who has deviated from the path of Islam), a charge which Molana refuted by saying that; far from being a 'raafzi' - he was upon the essence of the 'Sunnah'. Molana chose martyrdom over admittance to such a charge.
One should desist from cursing muslims after their death,Aurangzeb (rah) ruled for almost 60 years - the longest serving Ruler in the History of India. He tried to purge the mughal empire of its luxurious and autocratic ways as he himself lived a very austere life unlike the fatemi daees which rule like modern maviyas.

here is an excerpt of his last will recorded by Maulvi Hamid-ud Din in chapter 8 of his hand written book in Persian about the life of Aurangzeb:

My servant, Aya Beg, has my purse in which I have carefully kept my earnings of 4 Rs and 2 annas. In my spare time I have been writing the Koran and stitching caps. It was by selling the caps that I made an honest earning of 4 Rs and 2 annas. My coffin should be purchased with this amount. No other money should be spent for covering the body of a sinner. This is my dying wish. By selling the copies of the Koran I collected 305 Rs. That money is also with Aya Beg. It is my will that poor Mohammedans should be fed with sweet rice purchased by this money.
All my articles - clothes, ink stand, pens and books should be given to my son Azam. The labour charges for digging my grave will be paid by Prince Azam.
My grave should be dug in a dense forest. When I am buried my face should remain uncovered. Do not bury my face in earth. I want to present myself to Allah with a naked face. I am told whoever goes to the supreme court with a naked face will have his sins forgiven.
My coffin should be made of thick Khaddar. Do not place a costly shawl on the corpse. The route of my funeral should not be showered with flowers. No one should be permitted to place any flowers on my body. No music should be played or sung, I hate music.

No tomb should be built for me. Only a chabootra or platform may be erected.
I have not been able to pay the salaries of my soldiers and my personal servants for several months. I bequeath that after my death at least my personal servants be paid in full as the treasury is empty. Niamat Ali has served my very faithfully he has cleaned my body and has never let my bed remain dirty.
No mausoleum should be raised in my memory. No stone with my name should be placed at my grave. There should be no trees planted near the grave
100 choohe kha kar kutta haj ko chala!

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#11

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 10:04 am

Br Aliabbas
AS
Above post by esteem doctor saheb is perfect example of Bohra religion a perverted version of Islam.

Their religion follows 8 requirements instead of 5 for Islam

Additional 3 are
Vilayat
Tahriyat and
Hatred, this they learn while they are in their mothers womb. As part of their secrete worship ritual.

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#12

Unread post by Doctor » Sun May 20, 2012 3:46 pm

Muslim First wrote:Br Aliabbas
AS
Above post by esteem doctor saheb is perfect example of Bohra religion a perverted version of Islam.

Their religion follows 8 requirements instead of 5 for Islam

Additional 3 are
Vilayat
Tahriyat and
Hatred, this they learn while they are in their mothers womb. As part of their secrete worship ritual.
Muslim First ke Islam ke 5 pillars:
1. Bugz a Rasool Allah
2. Bugz a Ali
3. Bugz a Fatima
4. Bugz a Hasan
5. Bugz a Hussain

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#13

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 4:16 pm

Doctor wrote:
Muslim First ke Islam ke 5 pillars:
1. Bugz a Rasool Allah
2. Bugz a Ali
3. Bugz a Fatima
4. Bugz a Hasan
5. Bugz a Hussain
Only Idol (Ahl e Bait) worshipping Esteem Doctor Mubark would invent pillers of Islam for others.
Islam is about worship of Allah SWt and way to worship is as shown by Allah's last Prophet.

Six belief and five pillars

(From ISLAM THE ALTERNATIVE By Murad Hoffman, Amana publications
Chapter Complete faith, Pages 11-12)


‘Muslim’ is someone who finds peace in submission to God specifically in accordance with Qur’an and the Prophet’s model behavior (Sunnah); this includes earlier revelations as much as they are authentic and valid.

Thus, for example, a Muslim follows the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament and commandment to love thy neighbor of the New Testament. For him, as for Jews and Christians who have maintained their belief, there are six articles of faith, which according to the Qur’an are basis of theological understanding of cosmic reality (Q 2:285, 4:136, 9:51):

SIX BELIEFS
• the existence of the God;
• the existence of other spiritual beings (“His angels”):
• the existence of divine revelation (“His books”);
• the sending of prophets (“His messengers);
• Final judgment/Life after death;
• Predestination (‘Fatalism”)

These beliefs have been precisely stated in Al-Imanul Mufassal, the faith in detail:

Amantu Billahi, Wa Malaikathi, wa Kutubih, wa Rusulihi, wal Yawmil Akhiri, wal Qadri, Khairihi wa Sharrahi minal Lahi Taala, Wal Bathi Badal Mawt.

That means: (Pay attention Brother Doctor)

I believe in Allah , in His Angels , in His Books , in His messengers , in Last day (Day of Judgment) and in the fact everything good or bad is decided by Allah, the Almighty, and in Life after death.

Here is what Murad Hoffmana former German diplomat writes in his book “Islam the Alternative”
A Muslim lives in a world without clergy and without religious hierarchy; when he prays he does not pray via Jesus, Mary or other interceding saints, but directly to God-as fully emancipated believer-and this in a religion free of mysteries. An atmosphere of this kind suits the modern democratic citizen come of age far better then the wondrous, mystery stricken atmosphere of Byzantine and Catholic Churches, geared towards “Intercession” and focusing sacraments administered by clergymen.

(Islam the Alternative (Amana Publication) , Page 15
Five Pillars

Shahada
Namaaz
Roza
Zakat
Hujj if one can afford it.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#14

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun May 20, 2012 4:37 pm

Bro Muslim First,

This topic is regarding the killing of a person who is revered by bohras at large and as per historical evidence Aurangzeb is the main culprit, hence good deeds by him if any will not absolve him of his crime nor will it bring any changes in their viewpoint.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#15

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 5:05 pm

Yes I am aware of that.
My first and second post only asked for Hadith from Prophet SAW regarding Shahadat of Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin.
My third post was for Ali Abbas not to post anything positive on persons hated by DB
My 4th post was in response to
100 choohe kha kar kutta haj ko chala!
, Once again I explained to Ali Abbas that hatread was part of DB religion.
My last post was in response to Esteem br DR, insunating that my pillars are Bugze 1 thru 5
I had to inform him regarding 5 pillars and 6 belieifs of MS Islam.
BTW I did not post nature of good deeds of Aurangzeb. It was Aliabbas's post.

I do not think Shia will ever stop hating and cursing.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#16

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun May 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Ali Abbas,

Aurangzeb's grave is not in Jungle but in a spritual town called Khuldabad located on hilly areas about 25 kilometer of Aurangbad City. What you have written about him is only one part of the coin. Did you read the history in your school?

The same Aurangzeb had imprisoned his father mughal emperor Shahjahaan in Taj Mehal. He also took off the eyes of his elder brother Dara Shikoh. Forget about his deeds with Dawoodi bohras and other rafzis, what he did to his own father and brother is enough to judge about his personality.

Muslif First,

Tenants of Dawoodi Bohras has nothing to do with this thread. You have now made it habbit of commenting on everything. May be you too did not study history properly. Aurangzeb has killed hundred of dawoodi bohras in ahmedabad, Ahmed Nagar, Aurangabad and other part of india during his period.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 6:58 pm

Muslif First,
Tenants of Dawoodi Bohras has nothing to do with this thread. You have now made it habbit of commenting on everything. May be you too did not study history properly. Aurangzeb has killed hundred of dawoodi bohras in ahmedabad, Ahmed Nagar, Aurangabad and other part of india during his period.
I have read Mugal History
And I have not defended ZEB
I was struck with severity of Br Doctors language and I inferred that was due to his upbringing listening to Laanats and curses directed agaist some of relatives and compaining of Prophet.

Let me find Adam's post regarding tenents of DB religion. I will take liberty to post it. IA

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun May 20, 2012 7:04 pm

A contrarian view by some historians :-

Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb: Bad Ruler or Bad History?

Of all the Muslim rulers who ruled vast territories of India from 712 to 1857 CE, probably no one has received as much condemnation from Western and Hindu writers as Aurangzeb. He has been castigated as a religious Muslim who was anti-Hindu, who taxed them, who tried to convert them, who discriminated against them in awarding high administrative positions, and who interfered in their religious matters. This view has been heavily promoted in the government approved textbooks in schools and colleges across post-partition India (i.e., after 1947). These are fabrications against one of the best rulers of India who was pious, scholarly, saintly, un-biased, liberal, magnanimous, tolerant, competent, and far-sighted.

http://www.albalagh.net/general/0093.shtml

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#19

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 7:13 pm

Muslim First
How dare you defend ZEB!!! :shock: :o :o :o

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#20

Unread post by Hanif » Sun May 20, 2012 7:54 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:
MurtazaVds wrote: These enemies, namely the likes of Qasim Aandhlo, Abdul Ghavii and Aurangzeb (l.a.) conspired to murder Syedna Qutbuddin.1 Syedna Qutbuddin was executed under the charge of being a 'raafzi' (one who has deviated from the path of Islam), a charge which Molana refuted by saying that; far from being a 'raafzi' - he was upon the essence of the 'Sunnah'. Molana chose martyrdom over admittance to such a charge.
One should desist from cursing muslims after their deathWhy just Muslims, why not everybody. Why curse anybody period dead or alive.,Aurangzeb (rah) ruled for almost 60 years - the longest serving Ruler in the History of India.I would not use (rah) so liberally for murderers. Whether the Dai or other Shias whom he had killed because they did not follow his type of Islam were wrong in following their beliefs, only God is the Judge. He tried to purge the mughal empire of its luxurious and autocratic ways as he himself lived a very austere life unlike the fatemi daees which rule like modern maviyas.Dawood Nabi, SAW, Suleiman Nabi SAW, Fatemi Imams, Ayubids, Abbasids lived a life of austerity. Saudi King, King of Jordan, Emirs of Kuwait, UAE, etc. all are Muslims and yet they live a life of austerity, more so than the Dai. Would you call them Muawiyas too?

here is an excerpt of his last will recorded by Maulvi Hamid-ud Din in chapter 8 of his hand written book in Persian about the life of Aurangzeb:He wrote what he wanted and omitted the atrocities he committed against the Shias of all denominations.

My servant, Aya Beg, has my purse in which I have carefully kept my earnings of 4 Rs and 2 annas. In my spare time I have been writing the Koran and stitching caps. It was by selling the caps that I made an honest earning of 4 Rs and 2 annas. My coffin should be purchased with this amount. No other money should be spent for covering the body of a sinner. This is my dying wish. By selling the copies of the Koran I collected 305 Rs. That money is also with Aya Beg. It is my will that poor Mohammedans should be fed with sweet rice purchased by this money.
All my articles - clothes, ink stand, pens and books should be given to my son Azam. The labour charges for digging my grave will be paid by Prince Azam.
My grave should be dug in a dense forest. When I am buried my face should remain uncovered. Isn't this against Sharia. Do not bury my face in earth. I want to present myself to Allah with a naked face.AS if Allah SWT was going to come down to meet him in person, what nonsensense I am told Whoever told him so was a liar!whoever goes to the supreme court with a naked face will have his sins forgiven (what b.s. is this? .Where in the Qur'an or Sunnah?????
My coffin should be made of thick Khaddar. Do not place a costly shawl on the corpse. The route of my funeral should not be showered with flowers. No one should be permitted to place any flowers on my body. No music should be played or sung, I hate music. Brother AliAbbas you went from the frying pan into a blazing inferno. I pity you.

No tomb should be built for me. Only a chabootra or platform may be erected.
I have not been able to pay the salaries of my soldiers and my personal servants for several months.Why? How did their families survive. If he could not afford servants, then why have them? I bequeath that after my death at least my personal servants be paid in full as the treasury is empty. If the treasury was empty, how did he think his servans were going to be paid. Niamat Ali has served my very faithfully he has cleaned my body and has never let my bed remain dirty.
No mausoleum should be raised in my memory. No stone with my name should be placed at my grave. There should be no trees planted near the grave

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#21

Unread post by Hanif » Sun May 20, 2012 8:07 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:A contrarian view by some historians :-

Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb: Bad Ruler or Bad History?

Of all the Muslim rulers who ruled vast territories of India from 712 to 1857 CE, probably no one has received as much condemnation from Western and Hindu writers as Aurangzeb. He has been castigated as a religious Muslim who was anti-Hindu, who taxed them, who tried to convert them, who discriminated against them in awarding high administrative positions, and who interfered in their religious matters. This view has been heavily promoted in the government approved textbooks in schools and colleges across post-partition India (i.e., after 1947). These are fabrications against one of the best rulers of India who was pious, scholarly, saintly, un-biased, liberal, magnanimous, tolerant, competent, and far-sighted.

http://www.albalagh.net/general/0093.shtml
Brother Ghulam, I am surprised at you. I can understand If Hindu writers wrote bad things, but how do you justify this murderer's acts of murders against the Dawoodi Bohora Dais, Ismaili Pirs, Shia leaders, etc.? Above all against his father and brother. He was so pious that he wanted his face not buried in dirt because he wanted to face Allah SWT face to face. What an arrogant fool. He was probably afraid of being suffocated! Not realising his senses would be dead together with himself. Read more about his idiosyncracies posted by brother Ali Abbas.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#22

Unread post by Hanif » Sun May 20, 2012 8:28 pm

Brother Muslim First,

I do not believe that DBs or Shias are the only ones who hate people who do not share their beliefs. Your posts and those of your friend's posts are more inflammatory than anybody's on this forum. Your friend calls DBs "Abde Idiots" in every post. Have you heard any DB or Progressive DB ever call you or your friend, or Sunnis, "idiots". So please refrain from attributing hatred to non-Sunnis because you are the worst ones. 2. Please re-read verse (5:48) which states: “For each of you We have made a (different) code (Shariah), and an open way (of action). If God so pleased, He would have made you (all) into one community. Therefore vie (with each other) in goodness (so that) He may test you by what He has given you. (Remember, you) all will (eventually) return to God, and He will tell you in what you differed.”

3. Not only the bohoras but all Shias have 7 Pillars. Vilayat is added because Shias believe in Imamat. Now, if you do not agree with that then please keep silent. Your opinions are not going to change our minds and vice versa. I do not agree with a lot of what you say. I can provide you a lot of proof about Ghadir-E-Khoum, which you have been asking for repeatedly on this forum, and many from Sunni sources. I do not post that because I know it would not make any sense to you or your brothers and I would be wasting my time and others. So I keep silent.

4. Please do not automatically assume that because people do not stand up to your challenges they are stupid. I have also noticed that you guys twist some Suras and their translations to suit your agendas, but some of us do not buy that either. Just do not assume people on this forum have less knowowledge than yourselfves.They are not stupid. They are wise.Silence is Golden.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Sun May 20, 2012 9:07 pm

They are wise. Silence is Golden.
You are obviously not from them as displayed by your above three posts. Next time, display your wisdom by actually keeping quite. And when you keep quite, stick to it rather than talking behind someone else's back. And try to quote complete ayahs of the quran so that the context is not lost, unless that is what you wish to do.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#24

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun May 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Hanif
2. Please re-read verse (5:48) which states: “For each of you We have made a (different) code (Shariah), and an open way (of action). If God so pleased, He would have made you (all) into one community. Therefore vie (with each other) in goodness (so that) He may test you by what He has given you. (Remember, you) all will (eventually) return to God, and He will tell you in what you differed.”
Hanif
Secterians use half ayas to prove their POV. Apperently you copied this without reading full Aya or one before it or one after it.
Here is full Aya
[Shakir 5:48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
Now where do you want to discuss this Aya. Who is diverting this thread me or you the "Burhani DB Guard dog"?
BTW I am studying various Tafseers and iterpretation is not one you have arrived.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#25

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon May 21, 2012 5:26 am

anajmi wrote:
They are wise. Silence is Golden.
You are obviously not from them as displayed by your above three posts. Next time, display your wisdom by actually keeping quite. And when you keep quite, stick to it rather than talking behind someone else's back. And try to quote complete ayahs of the quran so that the context is not lost, unless that is what you wish to do.
Hanif
Are you sure you have personally studied this aya and various tafseers and you have come to conclusion that this half Aya permits DBs different Sharia?
Take your own meds.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#26

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon May 21, 2012 2:26 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Bro Muslim First,

This topic is regarding the killing of a person who is revered by bohras at large and as per historical evidence Aurangzeb is the main culprit, hence good deeds by him if any will not absolve him of his crime nor will it bring any changes in their viewpoint.
can you quote authentic "historic references" which prove that HAZRAT Aurangzeb(rah) unjustly killed hazrat qutbuddin? What were the detailed charges put up against the victim? May be that the victim might have committed a serious blasphemy ? May be These all are just speculations and false rumors.
Even i can come up with a rumor(?) that hazrat qutbuddin was killed by his own people to get the gaddi?

Aarif
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#27

Unread post by Aarif » Mon May 21, 2012 4:06 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: can you quote authentic "historic references" which prove that HAZRAT Aurangzeb(rah) unjustly killed hazrat qutbuddin?
Aliabbas,
You should do some basic research before calling this dick head HAZRAT Aurangzeb(rah). He was one of the most fanatic Mughal rulers. He completely spoiled the Mughal reputation created by rulers like Babar and Akbar. He murdered not only his own brother but thousands of Hindus, Sikhs and Rajputs because of his strong hatred and intolerance towards other religions. He beheaded sikh guru Guru Tegh Bahadur because he did not accept Islam. He destroyed and burned down hundreds of Hindu temples and holy shrines. He was the one responsible for the downfall of the Mughal empire. Because of his fanatic attitude he created multiple enimies who constantly fought against him and eventually weakened his empire. Here are couple of links that describe his attitude towards other religions and his atrocities in general.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... re_1.shtml
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... /Aurangzeb

As far as Qutbuddin Shaheed is concerned bohras have no reason to create a fake story as they have nothing personal against Aurangazeb. The wikipedia does mention some information on his death with references from some bohra historical literature. If you believe otherwise come up with some concrete proof against this event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutubuddin_Shaheed

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#28

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon May 21, 2012 5:19 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:can you quote authentic "historic references" which prove that HAZRAT Aurangzeb(rah) unjustly killed hazrat qutbuddin? What were the detailed charges put up against the victim? May be that the victim might have committed a serious blasphemy ? May be These all are just speculations and false rumors.
I can only quote references which are viewpoints of majority historians. If there is any other viewpoint which demolishes the claims of bohras and absolves Aurangzeb of the murder then please quote them. A contrary viewpoint also becomes interesting as it throws light on specific details which are usually sidelined by many historians.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#29

Unread post by Hanif » Mon May 21, 2012 9:06 pm

Muslim First wrote:
Hanif
2. Please re-read verse (5:48) which states: “For each of you We have made a (different) code (Shariah), and an open way (of action). If God so pleased, He would have made you (all) into one community. Therefore vie (with each other) in goodness (so that) He may test you by what He has given you. (Remember, you) all will (eventually) return to God, and He will tell you in what you differed.”
Hanif
Secterians use half ayas to prove their POV. Apperently you copied this without reading full Aya or one before it or one after it.
Here is full Aya
[Shakir 5:48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
Now where do you want to discuss this Aya. Who is diverting this thread me or you the "Burhani DB Guard dog"?
BTW I am studying various Tafseers and iterpretation is not one you have arrived.

You may study various tafseers (I am the least bit impressed), the message of Allah SWT is: He is the only one who can tell us what is right or wrong between us. Now whether you agree with my interpretation or not, I do not even care. I do not agree with yours and still I do not care.. Neither you nor your frined on this board have the right to call others wrong. I have not accused you of diverting this thread. Once again, Bohoras are not the only ones who have 7 pillars, all Shias do.

After reading all the Tafseers and doing Hajj , Umraas, etc. you are still a Jahaliya. Look at your language on this board. You can always use some courtesy in conveying your message, but you are a typical ignorant Muslim donkey with a load of books on your back! You get away with a lot of things on this board, elsewhere you would have been kicked out a long time ago. I see a lot of similarity between you and Aurangzeb. Zero tolerance and narcissism and full of hot air.

Now if you had a little brain and some sense you will have noticed from my postings on this board, I am not a DB Burhani Guard dog, but to expect common sense and decency from a Jahaliya would be too much.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#30

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon May 21, 2012 10:13 pm

Aarif wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:
Aliabbas,
You should do some basic research before calling this dick head HAZRAT Aurangzeb(rah). He was one of the most fanatic Mughal rulers. He completely spoiled the Mughal reputation created by rulers like Babar and Akbar. He murdered not only his own brother but thousands of Hindus, Sikhs and Rajputs because of his strong hatred and intolerance towards other religions. He beheaded sikh guru Guru Tegh Bahadur because he did not accept Islam. He destroyed and burned down hundreds of Hindu temples and holy shrines. He was the one responsible for the downfall of the Mughal empire. Because of his fanatic attitude he created multiple enimies who constantly fought against him and eventually weakened his empire. Here are couple of links that describe his attitude towards other religions and his atrocities in general.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... re_1.shtml
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... /Aurangzeb

As far as Qutbuddin Shaheed is concerned bohras have no reason to create a fake story as they have nothing personal against Aurangazeb. The wikipedia does mention some information on his death with references from some bohra historical literature. If you believe otherwise come up with some concrete proof against this event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutubuddin_Shaheed

I only found good about Aurangzeb rah from these sources you mentioned regarding killing of his brother ,please delve into history and you will find his brother had turned into an apostate and preached Hindu doctrines. Here is what Britannica says:
"He grew up as a serious-minded and devout youth, wedded to the Muslim orthodoxy of the day and free from the royal Mughal traits of sensuality and drunkenness "
So dont be proud of the ancient Mughal traits which were undoubtedly evil.Such traits appease the disbelievers and despise the believers.

here are other praises for him:
In general, Aurangzeb ruled as a militant orthodox Sunni Muslim; he put through increasingly puritanical ordinances that were vigorously enforced by muḥtasibs, or censors of morals. The Muslim confession of faith, for instance, was removed from all coins lest it be defiled by unbelievers, and courtiers were forbidden to salute in the Hindu fashion. In addition, Hindu idols, temples, and shrines were often destroyed.

Although the will of Aurangzeb rah sounds flimsy and unauthentic even to me, my main aim of posting his unverified will was to set an example that we cant curse non mushrik muslims like Aurangzeb rah who may be far pious and better in sight of ALLAH than your fatemi daees:

Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It is not fitting for a truthful man to be someone who curses." [Muslim]

1553. Abu'd-Darda' reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "People who curse will not be intercessors nor witnesses on the Day of Rising." [Muslim]

1554. Samura ibn Jundub reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Do not curse one another with Allah's curse or His anger or the Fire." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

1555. Ibn Mas'ud reported said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "A believer is not an attacker nor a curser nor someone obscene or abusive." [at-Tirmidhi]

1556. Abu'd-Darda' reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If a slave of Allah curses something, the curse rises to the heaven and the gates of heaven are locked against it. Then it falls to the earth and the gates of the earth are locked against it and then it goes to the right and to the left and when it does not find any entrance, it returns to that which was cursed if it deserves it. Otherwise it returns to the one who said it." [Abu Dawud]