Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#91

Unread post by Aarif » Tue May 29, 2012 11:12 am

I had mentioned his brother was killed for apostasy on the judgements of the Qadis of the Muslim court and so was the imprisonment of his father hence it was shariah compliant .
Where in Sharia is it written that you can imprison your own father? Stop spreading these lies about Islam you idiot.

Also you have conveniently forgotten that Aurangazeb killed not one but three of his brothers to gain the throne.

"Aurangzeb craftily recruited his younger brother Murad, convincing him that together they could remove Dara and Shuja, and place Murad on the throne. Aurangzeb disavowed any plans to rule himself, claiming that his only ambition was to make the hajj to Mecca."
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/india/ ... -India.htm

So much for a pious Muslim who used the excuse of Hajj to kill his brothers and reach the throne...

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#92

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue May 29, 2012 1:05 pm

Aarif wrote:
I had mentioned his brother was killed for apostasy on the judgements of the Qadis of the Muslim court and so was the imprisonment of his father hence it was shariah compliant .
Where in Sharia is it written that you can imprison your own father? Stop spreading these lies about Islam you idiot.

Also you have conveniently forgotten that Aurangazeb killed not one but three of his brothers to gain the throne.

"Aurangzeb craftily recruited his younger brother Murad, convincing him that together they could remove Dara and Shuja, and place Murad on the throne. Aurangzeb disavowed any plans to rule himself, claiming that his only ambition was to make the hajj to Mecca."
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/india/ ... -India.htm

So much for a pious Muslim who used the excuse of Hajj to kill his brothers and reach the throne...
the above link from a unknown community contributed article without references also said following:
Shah Jahan favored Dara, the eldest son, but many Muslims considered him too worldly and irreligious. Shuja, the second son, was a complete hedonist, who used his position as Governor of Bengal as a platform for acquiring beautiful women and wine. Aurangzeb, a much more committed Muslim than either of the elder brothers, saw his chance to rally the faithful behind his own banner.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#93

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue May 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Aarif wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:As i told you i found no evidence to justify your claim, the DBs claim that aurangzeb rah killed hazrat qutubuddin .

The onus of proof lies on the claimant and NOT on the defendant, hence he is innocent until proven guilty.

So it is upto you people to bring out clear proofs for your claim that aurangzeb rah killed hazrat qutubuddin UNJUSTLY.
Ali Baba,
I have already proved my point by pointing you to Bohra historical documents on Wikipedia.
i am sorry there are no bohra historical docs on wikipedia! the Ismaili cult would never allow that too happen!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#94

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue May 29, 2012 4:32 pm

humble_servant_us wrote:here is a difference of opinion as far as the Muslim scholars are concerned regarding Yazeed. Some are neutral and some are against him. Some are even in favour of Yazeed like the revered scholar Imam Ghazaali.
humble_servant_us wrote: This has been reconfirmed recently in writing from various Darul Ulooms and Islamic Organisations in India.
Fatawas to clarify and support the above stand.
a) Darul Uloom, Deoband.
b) Nadwatul Ulema, Lucknow (verbally confirmed on phone, written copy to be received).
c) Darul Uloom, Barelwi.
d) Jamaat-e-Islami-i-Hind, New Delhi (verbally confirmed on phone, written copy to be received).
e) Darul Uloom Ahmadia Salfia, Darbhanga, Bihar.
f) Jamiatul-Ahle-Hadith, New Delhi
g) Aligarh Muslim University
h) Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwii)
And several others who have confirmed on phone and are expected to be received in the next couple of days.
The present Dai was the Vice Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University !!

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#95

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Wed May 30, 2012 1:19 am

Why are we hung up on Ahle Bait? Is not Islam about worshipping Allah?
We worship none but Allah(swt).

Ahlul bait is very important to us because prophet(pbuh) has left quran and ahlulbait(as) (Hadis-e-thaqlain) for guidance. And we believe prophet(pbuh) did this as per command of Allah(Swt). So following quran and ahlulbait(as) is as per Allah(swt). We do not accept "HASBUNA KITABULLAH" ( Sufficient for us is the Book of Allah) as what Hz. Umar proclaimed.

By the way we do not worship ahlul bait(as) , To be specific ahlul bait(as) are Imams from the progeny of prophet(pbuh). For us they are our role models and guides to understand and follow islam the way Allah(swt) and his prophet(pbuh) wants us to follow.

Anyways, lets not de-rail this.


Aliabbas,
If you want documentation, Aurangzeb killed sikh guru because he had refused to accept Islam.
Aurangzeb presented the severed head of his brother to his father to be served to him in a dish.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Aurangzeb

Are these qualities of a pious muslim. Does he deserves to be prayed for.

As far as qutbuddin shaheed is considered, atleast he as not done all this in his life.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#96

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 am

Many of my posts have been deleted!!!. I was wrong to assume this was an open platform !
I dont think i had posted anything offensive like what other people on this forum do it on a frequent basis.

i guess my fault was to defend the honor of a muslim who is dead!

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#97

Unread post by Aarif » Wed May 30, 2012 12:13 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:i guess my fault was to defend the honor of a muslim who is dead!
Honor my foot. What honor you are trying to defend? It is because of fanatics like you that Islam and Muslims get a bad name. Its not the honor but the crap in your filthy mind that you are trying to defend. According to you a person can be a murderer and a tyrant. But if he follows Islamic rituals then he is a pious Muslim. Here are some ayahs of Quran that you should read and learn from:

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [16:125]

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût (false worship or idols)and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower [2:256]

The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment. (42:42)

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"


"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
Noble Verse 45:14 "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each people according to what they have earned."

Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#98

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed May 30, 2012 12:45 pm

Aarif wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:i guess my fault was to defend the honor of a muslim who is dead!
Honor my foot. What honor you are trying to defend? It is because of fanatics like you that Islam and Muslims get a bad name. Its not the honor but the crap in your filthy mind that you are trying to defend. According to you a person can be a murderer and a tyrant. But if he follows Islamic rituals then he is a pious Muslim. Here are some ayahs of Quran that you should read and learn from:

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [16:125]

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût (false worship or idols)and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower [2:256]

The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment. (42:42)

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"


"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
Noble Verse 45:14 "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each people according to what they have earned."

Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
Your and your people's hatred speak volumes about your hypocritical faith in Islam. You people first should learn from the ayaat you have quoted the first, your hypocrisy is caught in the first ayah itself:

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [16:125]


I always argued without resorting to abuses and hatred. you people were the one who always spew venom on Muslims!

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#99

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed May 30, 2012 12:54 pm

humble_servant_us wrote:
Why are we hung up on Ahle Bait? Is not Islam about worshipping Allah?
We worship none but Allah(swt).

Ahlul bait is very important to us because prophet(pbuh) has left quran and ahlulbait(as) (Hadis-e-thaqlain) for guidance. And we believe prophet(pbuh) did this as per command of Allah(Swt). So following quran and ahlulbait(as) is as per Allah(swt). We do not accept "HASBUNA KITABULLAH" ( Sufficient for us is the Book of Allah) as what Hz. Umar proclaimed.

By the way we do not worship ahlul bait(as) , To be specific ahlul bait(as) are Imams from the progeny of prophet(pbuh). For us they are our role models and guides to understand and follow islam the way Allah(swt) and his prophet(pbuh) wants us to follow.

Anyways, lets not de-rail this.


Aliabbas,
If you want documentation, Aurangzeb killed sikh guru because he had refused to accept Islam.
Aurangzeb presented the severed head of his brother to his father to be served to him in a dish.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Aurangzeb

Are these qualities of a pious muslim. Does he deserves to be prayed for.

As far as qutbuddin shaheed is considered, atleast he as not done all this in his life.
if you dont worship ahlebayt then PLEASE STOP CHANTING YA ALI MADAD , mola mola mane maaf karo , mushkilkusha (nouzubillah) IN UR mosques!
and how cheap your standards are as you have quoted a partisan sikh source to prove your point!

In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

"O you who believe! If a Fasiq (liar - evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done." (49:6)



The Muslim Ummah is distinctive with the qualities of love and brotherhood, affection adorns the hearts and smiles beautify the faces. The principles among the believers are those of brotherhood and good friendship. Allah has said:

"The believers are nothing else than brothers." (49:10)

Allah has prohibited the believers from anything that may induce enmity and hatred amongst them:

"Shaitan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from Salat. So, will you not abstain?" (5:91)

Allah has conferred His favor upon His slaves in joining their hearts. He said:

"And remember Allah's favor on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together so that by His Grace you became brethren." (3:103)

"He it is Who has supported you with His help and with the believers, and He has united their hearts. If you had spent all that is in earth you could not have united their hearts, but Allah has united them." (8:62-63)

Every Mukallaf should safeguard his tongue against all kinds of loose talk except when it is evident that talking will be a means of beneficence. When talking and being quiet are both equal as a prudent measure, then the Sunna is to abstain from speech. This is because even lawful speech may lead to unlawful or unpleasant matters. This is, unfortunately, a common practice. Abu-Hurairah reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said:

"Whosoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should speak what is good or be silent." (Agreed upon)

This Hadith is clear and indisputable that a person should not talk unless what he wants to say is good and there is benefit from it. However, when he doubts whether there would be benefit or good, he should then not speak. Imam Shafi'ee said:

"If a person wishes to say something then he should think before he starts talking. If there is good, then he should speak, otherwise he should not."


"Woe to every slanderer and backbiter." (104:1)

SBM
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#100

Unread post by SBM » Wed May 30, 2012 1:20 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:Many of my posts have been deleted!!!. I was wrong to assume this was an open platform !
I dont think i had posted anything offensive like what other people on this forum do it on a frequent basis.

i guess my fault was to defend the honor of a muslim who is dead!
Thank you Administration
Alibaba Fitnati
AND YOU STILL DID NOT GET THE MESSAGE

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#101

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 30, 2012 1:36 pm

bro aliabbas,

I am not sure why you are trying to defend Aurangzeb. He is gone and there is no point fighting over him. It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong. Let us try to fight over something which is more worthwhile, like the sunnah of the prophet (saw). Whether Aurangzeb followed the sunnah or not is of no concern to us. What should concern us is whether we are following it or not. He is not of the level of the sahabas of the prophet (saw) who have been honored in the Quran and there is no need for us to defend his actions.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#102

Unread post by Aarif » Wed May 30, 2012 3:19 pm

Your and your people's hatred speak volumes about your hypocritical faith in Islam. You people first should learn from the ayaat you have quoted the first, your hypocrisy is caught in the first ayah itself:
And your hypocracy is caught in each and every ayah that I have quoted in my post. Look at your hypocracy. You have cleverly ignored all the ayahs that I have quoted in my post that prove that your beloved Aurangazeb was wrong in murdering people in the name of Islam in the light of holy Quran.
IF YOU HAVE BALLS AND CONSIDER YOURSELF A TRUE MUSLIM I OPENLY CHALLENGE YOU TO DEFEND AURANGAZEB IN THE LIGHT OF THE AYAHS THAT I HAVE QUOTED IN MY POST.

ALSO IF YOU THINK THAT I AM A TYPICAL BOHRA CURSING OTHER MUSLIMS THEN GO AND READ MY OTHER POSTS. I AM A 10 TIMES BETTER MUSLIM THEN FANATICS LIKE YOU WHO PRAISE MURDERERS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#103

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 30, 2012 3:41 pm

ALSO IF YOU THINK THAT I AM A TYPICAL BOHRA CURSING OTHER MUSLIMS THEN GO AND READ MY OTHER POSTS. I AM A 10 TIMES BETTER MUSLIM THEN FANATICS LIKE YOU WHO PRAISE MURDERERS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
Being a better muslim than those who love murderers doesn't actually make you a good muslim. To be a good muslim one needs to be good in following the ayahs of the quran and not quoting them. If quoting quranic ayahs made one a good muslim, then with close to 10,000 posts, I am a better muslim than you are.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#104

Unread post by Aarif » Wed May 30, 2012 4:14 pm

anajmi wrote:To be a good muslim one needs to be good in following the ayahs of the quran and not quoting them.
Honestly, you should be the last person saying this. Because if you would have followed the ayahs that I have mentioned you would not have insulted and humiliated people on this forum to prove your points and win arguments.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#105

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed May 30, 2012 5:21 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:Many of my posts have been deleted!!!. I was wrong to assume this was an open platform !
hehe ^^ :lol:

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#106

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 30, 2012 5:31 pm

Honestly, you should be the last person saying this. Because if you would have followed the ayahs that I have mentioned you would not have insulted and humiliated people on this forum to prove your points and win arguments.
Well, did I say that I follow every ayah of the Quran? Did I say that I am 10 times better than you are? No I didn't. Sometimes, I enjoy kicking butt just as much as the other guy. What I do say is that every ayah of the Quran is the truth. Be it about talaq or be it about halaqa!!

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#107

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed May 30, 2012 10:06 pm

humble_servant_us wrote:
Why are we hung up on Ahle Bait? Is not Islam about worshipping Allah?
We worship none but Allah(swt).

Ahlul bait is very important to us because prophet(pbuh) has left quran and ahlulbait(as) (Hadis-e-thaqlain) for guidance. And we believe prophet(pbuh) did this as per command of Allah(Swt). So following quran and ahlulbait(as) is as per Allah(swt). We do not accept "HASBUNA KITABULLAH" ( Sufficient for us is the Book of Allah) as what Hz. Umar proclaimed.

By the way we do not worship ahlul bait(as) , To be specific ahlul bait(as) are Imams from the progeny of prophet(pbuh). For us they are our role models and guides to understand and follow islam the way Allah(swt) and his prophet(pbuh) wants us to follow.

Anyways, lets not de-rail this..
I like to discuss more but admin has deleted most of my posts. I have saved above for future discussion perhaps in Islam section.
Thanks for offer of material but I can find it on net.
My Islam is simple.
I try to pray 5 times within time frame.
For health reason I can not fast.
I have done Hujj and Umrah
I read and try to understand Qur'an.
I hope this simple post will not be deleted.
I like this
Here is what Murad Hoffmana former German diplomat writes in his book “Islam the Alternative”
A Muslim lives in a world without clergy and without religious hierarchy; when he prays he does not pray via Jesus (or Imam), Mary or other interceding saints, but directly to God-as fully emancipated believer-and this in a religion free of mysteries(like ocultation). An atmosphere of this kind suits the modern democratic citizen come of age far better than the wondrous, mystery stricken atmosphere of Byzantine and Catholic Churches, geared towards “Intercession” and focusing sacraments administered by clergymen.
Brackted taxt is by me
Anyways, lets not de-rail this.. I agree
Wasalaam

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#108

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed May 30, 2012 10:47 pm

Aarif wrote:
Your and your people's hatred speak volumes about your hypocritical faith in Islam. You people first should learn from the ayaat you have quoted the first, your hypocrisy is caught in the first ayah itself:
And your hypocracy is caught in each and every ayah that I have quoted in my post. Look at your hypocracy. You have cleverly ignored all the ayahs that I have quoted in my post that prove that your beloved Aurangazeb was wrong in murdering people in the name of Islam in the light of holy Quran.
IF YOU HAVE BALLS AND CONSIDER YOURSELF A TRUE MUSLIM I OPENLY CHALLENGE YOU TO DEFEND AURANGAZEB IN THE LIGHT OF THE AYAHS THAT I HAVE QUOTED IN MY POST.

ALSO IF YOU THINK THAT I AM A TYPICAL BOHRA CURSING OTHER MUSLIMS THEN GO AND READ MY OTHER POSTS. I AM A 10 TIMES BETTER MUSLIM THEN FANATICS LIKE YOU WHO PRAISE MURDERERS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
The (rah) is not for praising !! BUT JUST A PRAYER TO ALLAH FOR MERCY ON HIM!!. Any ways i again quote that onus of proof lies on claimant, please read my prev posts.

Hope you have read the story of khidr and moosa a.s in Quran, why did the pious khidr murdered a youth and moosa a.s could not keep the patience??

The point i want to make is that you cannot JUDGE the fate of a muslim by seeing his external "acts". He was a ruler while the "syedna" was a head of some unimportant obscure bohra village. Why would a ruler of his stature meddle with such a person, unless there be some serious charges against him?

So what i am interested in are the charges leveled against the victim which the ismailis tayyibi dawat is hiding? I am damn sure if the esoteric Ismaili literature is opened to the world, the next day we will see the Ismaili cult in the same foots where the qadiyanis, bahais and goharshaihs are standing.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#109

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Wed May 30, 2012 11:23 pm

Shaykh Abul Hasan 'Ali Nadwi's brilliant work 'Saviours of Islamic Spirit', Volume 3 on Mujaddid Alf Thani Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi (Rahimahullah).

In it, he mentions about Aurangzeb's piety, his spiritual training under the descendents of Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi (may Allah have mercy on all of them).

He also mentions about Dara Shikoh, Aurangzeb's elder brother, who had developed extremely heretical Hindu views and wanted to revive the rule of Akbar in the sub-continent. That is the reason why Aurangzeb waged war against him and was supported by the scholars, mystics, and other concerned Muslims of his time.

If one wants to read more about Sultan Aurangzeb Alamgir rah, read what was written by his contemporaries and not by Hindu historians and orientalists centuries later. They have tried their best to portray him as a villain and murderer.

Shaykh Abdul Hassan 'Ali Nadwi has mentioned that if it was not for 4 personalities, today there would be no practicging Muslims in the sub-Continent. Those are:

1. Imam Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani
2. Sultan Aurangzaib Alamgir
3. Imam Shah Waliullah
4. Sayyid Ahmed Shaheed

Sultan Aurangzaib was also a faqih . Fatawa Alamgiri was compiled under his supervision.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#110

Unread post by profastian » Thu May 31, 2012 12:43 am

Why is everybody getting so riled up about this idiot's(ali_abbas) posts?
Such brainwashed wahabi youth is now spread throughout the world thanks to the backing of the Saudi oil dollars.
All they do is parrot the ideology of their masters without any rhyme or reason. It is best to ignore them.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#111

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Thu May 31, 2012 2:08 am

The point i want to make is that you cannot JUDGE the fate of a muslim by seeing his external "acts". He was a ruler while the "syedna" was a head of some unimportant obscure bohra village. Why would a ruler of his stature meddle with such a person, unless there be some serious charges against him?
In history we have seen the rulers being tyrants whereas head of unimportant obscure villages being pious.

Yazid was a ruler, why did he kill Imam Husain(as)
Walid ibne abdul malik was a ruler , why did he poison Imam ali ibne Husain(As)
Hisham ibne abdul malik was a ruler, why did he poison Imam Muhammed ibne ali(As)
Al-Mansur was a ruler, why did he poison Imam Jaffer ibne Muhammed (As)
and so on.

Moreover these tyrants called themselves Khalifas of muslimeen.

So the argument why a ruler will meddle with such a person doesn't make sense.
and how cheap your standards are as you have quoted a partisan sikh source to prove your point!
Do you want to say that Aurangzeb did not kill the sikh gurus. If we give you bohra source of how he killed qudbuddin shaheed, you do not accept it.

So basically you are not being neutral in judging someone's fate. A person who kills innocent people just because someone doesn't follow his ideology cannot be pious.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#112

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu May 31, 2012 8:49 am

Brainwashed Profie posted
Such brainwashed wahabi (Abde) youth is now spread throughout the world thanks to the backing of the Saudi oil dollars (Brain washing by Kothar).
All they do is parrot the ideology of their masters without any rhyme or reason. It is best to ignore them.

Humsafar
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#113

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu May 31, 2012 10:36 am

profastian wrote:Why is everybody getting so riled up about this idiot's(ali_abbas) posts?
Such brainwashed wahabi youth is now spread throughout the world thanks to the backing of the Saudi oil dollars.
All they do is parrot the ideology of their masters without any rhyme or reason. It is best to ignore them.
Allah save us from the zeal of new converts!!! Be they abdes or salafis/wahabis. But if really have to choose between the two, I'd prefer an abde idiot to a salafi/wahabi idiot. Why? Because I feel a certain affinity towards abdes, they are our own home-grown idiots and we know the source of their idiocy. Salafi/Wahabis are so alien and so forbidding, and you've no idea what feeds their passion. They give me the creeps. :)

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#114

Unread post by Aarif » Thu May 31, 2012 10:54 am

The point i want to make is that you cannot JUDGE the fate of a muslim by seeing his external "acts". He was a ruler while the "syedna" was a head of some unimportant obscure bohra village. Why would a ruler of his stature meddle with such a person, unless there be some serious charges against him?
So what i am interested in are the charges leveled against the victim which the ismailis tayyibi dawat is hiding? I am damn sure if the esoteric Ismaili literature is opened to the world, the next day we will see the Ismaili cult in the same foots where the qadiyanis, bahais and goharshaihs are standing.
Nobody is hiding any charges. If you have forgotten let me remind you that Dawoodi Bohras are part of the Shia sect of Islam. Prosecution of Shias by Sunnis is one of the most common things that you will find across all histories. Now just think for a moment. Aurangazeb was an intolerant hardcore fanatic who killed his own brothers in the name of religion. Throughout his entire life he forcefully tried converting people from other religions such as Hinduism, sikhism to Islam.

He was the ruler of entire India and his appointed officers were placed in various parts of the countries. It were his officers who found bohras following Islam as Shias and complained to Aurangazeb who then summoned the Dai to his court and asked him to convert into a Sunni muslim. The Dai refused to give up his faith and Aurangazeb ordered his execution. This part is mentioned in Hadishah the book that bohras recite in the month in which the Dai was executed.

If you will read history, Aurangazeb did the same with the sikh Guru who refused to accept Islam. He ordered his execution. This is a known fact and is part of Indian history.

However, what I don’t understand about YOU is the following:
1) History mentions that Aurangazeb killed his brothers and imprisoned his father to gain the throne
2) He was extremely intolerant of other faiths and considered only Islam as the most superior religion
3) He ordered execution of people who did not follow his brand of Islam

HENCE WHY IS IT DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO DIGEST THAT HE WOULD HAVE ORDERED THE KILLING OF QUTBUDDIN SAHEED BECAUSE HE WAS A LEADER OF A COMMUNITY THAT FALLS UNDER THE SHIA SECT OF ISLAM?

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#115

Unread post by Aarif » Thu May 31, 2012 10:58 am

Sometimes, I enjoy kicking butt just as much as the other guy.
Right now I am kicking butt of this fanatic idiot called Ali Baba and I am really enjoying it.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Urs Syedna Qutubkhan Qutbuddin Shaheed

#116

Unread post by Conscíous » Thu May 31, 2012 2:03 pm

Humsafar wrote:Allah save us from the zeal of new converts!!! Be they abdes or salafis/wahabis. But if really have to choose between the two, I'd prefer an abde idiot to a salafi/wahabi idiot. Why? Because I feel a certain affinity towards abdes, they are our own home-grown idiots and we know the source of their idiocy. Salafi/Wahabis are so alien and so forbidding, and you've no idea what feeds their passion. They give me the creeps. :)
Hahaaaha :mrgreen: