who is raza na saheb now

[accountability]

it is an open secret that syedna sahib is not in his concious state of mind. I have learned it through a saify mahal source, according to him it is not a well kept secret.
i am not posting it for any other purpose than just for academic discussion. this raises lot of questions in my mind. over the years they have portrayed his image as larger than life. he was the entity never falling. he was elevated to status of God on earth, many a miracles were attributed to him. he would make a cyclone go away when he was visiting hong kong, he gave tongue to a dumb girl, he made a blind see etc, so on and so forth.
he was in constant touch with imam uz zaman through ilham. ilham as i have understood and taught that it occurs through dreams. but dream only occurs in right state of mind. an unconcious or brain dead can not dream.
as we have syedi muffadal bhai saheb his successor, but still lacks the formal ascension to dai ul mutlaq. So imam uz zaman will comminucate only through his incumbent successor, who happens to be not in conscious state of mind. now the question arises that how would imam discharge his message to us believers, if the medium is not available. but according to official interpretation there is not a moment in time, when there is no guidance. we emphasize so much on raza, the only raza na saheb available is syedna saheb, if syedna saheb can not comminucate then every thing that is being done by jamat will have no legal validity.
even if his successor is granted raza e kulli, that is for him to take any action, but what about a mumin, and other functionaries, amils, amils grant raza on behalf of syedna saheb, as he can not comminucate with him, his raza will not bear validity.
this is a very important question, either we will have to revisit the doctorine or we dont care about the authenticity of it.

[ghulam muhammed]

It was shocking and sad to hear about the condition of the dai from an abde who happened to host a ziafat in khandala. He said that the dai is in such a delicate condition that he is almost unable to talk (we know this as he has stopped giving bayans recently), he has a hearing problem and above all a loss of memory. He at times forgets his own whereabouts as he questions people around him as to whether he is in khandala or mumbai. He can barely walk and travels in palkhis and has great difficulty in lifting his hand. He cannot even bathe by himself and is helped by his family members.

Before the abdes join the bandwagon in hurling abuses let me say that in no way am I mocking the dai but trying to portray the true picture which they refuse to see and accept. The above mentioned condition is a normal phenomena as most people his age encounter such problems hence there is no intent of making a mockery of his condition.

Although many abdes are fully aware of this but it is surprising that not a single person has the guts to raise his/her voice against the zaadas who are parading him in a palkhi 24x7 after dressing him like a mannequin and this is done with the sole purpose of extracting money in the guise of innumerable ziafats, mafsusiyats, hadiyats etc. The zaadas are aware that the dai is the only marketing tool hence they are exploiting him to the fullest, as the saying goes "Make hay while the sun shines".

It is a matter of great concern that inspite of seeing their master being put in such hardships at this age and a fragile health, none raises his/her voice. By being mute spectators are they doing any good to him ? Where is their so called love and jaan/maal fida karsu slogans ? Only by reciting shifa-e-kulli and chanting 'taa qayamat tak umar daraz kare', it is not going to help him as actions are to be preceeded before making any dua. It has to be concluded that their so called love is nothing but a lip service as their actions speak otherwise.

Although Iam vocal in my views which are against the unethical actions of the dai but at the same time it is saddening when one sees any old person put into such hardships. Hence, although I and many others disapprove of his conduct but on pure humanitarian grounds we condemn the illtreatment by his zaadas as no person of such an advanced age deserves the kind of treatment as meted out by his own family with the sole purpose of extorting money in his name.

[accountability]

I totally agree with you. of late i have come to know of the same thing, i was told by a saify mahal resident about his state. I have said this in my posts some years ago, when he was not in such a state, but still I thought, that he should not be put to such straineous schedule at this advanced age. like you I feel very sad, and as his follower, i wish the best for him. if you look at the pictures of syedna saheb, you will see his jaws dropping, his eyes just looking blank in space.
though syedna saheb is himself the author of this doctorine, but humans are humans, their endurance has bounds. in my other post i have asked about the authenicity of this doctorine.

[accountability]

look at this picture

http://www.zeninfosys.net/zi6/akhbar/hu ... mbai/17229

[Fateh]

it is an open secret that syedna sahib is not in his concious state of mind. I have learned it through a saify mahal source, according to him it is not a well kept secret.
i am not posting it for any other purpose than just for academic discussion. this raises lot of questions in my mind. over the years they have portrayed his image as larger than life. he was the entity never falling. he was elevated to status of God on earth, many a miracles were attributed to him. he would make a cyclone go away when he was visiting hong kong, he gave tongue to a dumb girl, he made a blind see etc, so on and so forth.
he was in constant touch with imam uz zaman through ilham. ilham as i have understood and taught that it occurs through dreams. but dream only occurs in right state of mind. an unconcious or brain dead can not dream.
as we have syedi muffadal bhai saheb his successor, but still lacks the formal ascension to dai ul mutlaq. So imam uz zaman will comminucate only through his incumbent successor, who happens to be not in conscious state of mind. now the question arises that how would imam discharge his message to us believers, if the medium is not available. but according to official interpretation there is not a moment in time, when there is no guidance. we emphasize so much on raza, the only raza na saheb available is syedna saheb, if syedna saheb can not comminucate then every thing that is being done by jamat will have no legal validity.
even if his successor is granted raza e kulli, that is for him to take any action, but what about a mumin, and other functionaries, amils, amils grant raza on behalf of syedna saheb, as he can not comminucate with him, his raza will not bear validity.
this is a very important question, either we will have to revisit the doctorine or we dont care about the authenticity of it.

First of all the Imam is not in pardah & he is not in touch with any of dai.The Imam is any where in world & guide their true followers.So search where in world true sect is who follow true Islam as per guidance of Pak Panjatan.Thats all.

[humanbeing]

Concept of Raza is over rated, it’s a mere formality and tool to hold bohra together. It has both positives and negatives, depends on how much is the devotion of the abde or commoner bohra mumin.

Condition of sayedna sahib is not a secret, its there for everyone to see, even when sayedna saheb was in best of health, getting a Raza were handled by Kothari management. Which is also a mere formality.

I have observed and experienced bohras seek raza for everything even a routine task which only requires common sense and not raza ! and obvious answer from kothar is “Raza Che” only few time randomly they will say “Raza Nathi” that also would be as per logical and reasonable argument which even a simple thinking person can deduct. But bohras are made to believe that they are dumb to understand the complexities of life and shall depend on community leaders to crack the code of life.

When Mansoos Mufaddal Bhai saaheb can speak to dead and now coming up with mojizas, I think being Deputy Dai even he can be a recipient of Imam-uz-Zaman’s messages. In coming times, we may see every one from “Royal” family will start getting messages from Imam-uz-Zaman as they would like to hold on to their fiefdoms. Recently Shehzada Malekul ashtar was presiding in Kuwait for Muharram and he was enjoying the limelight and paparazzi of Maula Maula (Master, Master) with kadambosi, kadam, salaam, ziyafat, araz services

Ramadan is approaching and kothar would be preparing for high season of business, there would be mojiza galore associated with wajebaat and raza hype.

[aqs]

@accountability

Br. This is the first time in history that a Dai has reached the ripe age of 100+. So i dont think we will find any precedent where a Dai was unable to take decision due to his health and his Appointed successor took all decision. Ilham is a tricky question, we have seen that as soon as Nass news appeared we were flooded with Mojizas of Syedi Mufaddal Moula.

[aqs]

Br. GM,

The same thing was relayed to me by one of my relative who had hosted Ziyafat before Syedna(tus) suffered from stroke, His health has deteriorated more but worst part is no one sees any wrong in Syedna(tus) officiating Ziyafats or other functions.
Allah will not help us because we dont want to help ourself.

[profastian]

Br. GM,

The same thing was relayed to me by one of my relative who had hosted Ziyafat before Syedna(tus) suffered from stoke, His health has deteriorated more but worst part is no one sees any wrong in Syedna(tus) officiating Ziyafats or other functions.
Allah will not help us because we dont want to help ourself.

Hmm interesting turn of events and character

[aqs]

Br. GM,

The same thing was relayed to me by one of my relative who had hosted Ziyafat before Syedna(tus) suffered from stoke, His health has deteriorated more but worst part is no one sees any wrong in Syedna(tus) officiating Ziyafats or other functions.
Allah will not help us because we dont want to help ourself.

Hmm interesting turn of events and character

agreed. as a community our character has changed.

[ozmujaheed]

Rather then the brain dead abdes showing any sympathy I am more surprised his own sons and zadas participate in parading him for ziafats! If they are not doing for their greed of money and flattery , why would they carry the burden! The stupid sons are all around him, what about Mansoos he does not have any feeling for his dad.
The sooner we depose the zadas the better for us and SMB.

[think]

throughout my years in association with syedna who when in kyc used to stay at my relatives house;i have been told about mojizas of dai but have not witnessed any at all with my own eyes.
Has any one actually seen any mogija of the dai.

[humanbeing]

During last Muharram, almost all days we saw how khidmatguzars were carrying sayedna saheb on the palkhi and raising him over the shoulders for people to do Deedar . Such practice was quiet disturbing to see how our community is turning into human worshipping cult when people went hysteric with devotion / affection raising hands and joining palms and glorifying a mortal with intention of piety in their actions

It’s a sad irony to see / hear, muharram are the days where sayedna and his family garners more attention then message of Imam Hussain.

[Muslim First]

AC
Br. This is the first time in history that a Dai has reached the ripe age of 100+.

100 as per Islamic dates, not as per calander years. Wait till he reaches 100 again. More la, More la.

[accountability]

GM I got another news today, but before posting i want to confirm it, the guy is in saify mahal, but still i doubt it. have you heard anything today on monday.
Doctorine of raza is over manipulation by bohra religious administration to control and very smartly take credit of day to day event. in this way it is made sure that control is total and submission is unwavering. All the logic and reasoning given by administration is illogical and super bending of events. foremost is a narration that during ashora morning battle, each companion sought permission to go to fight. first of all this narration has no academic authenticity, i had asked one very learned jamia ustad, in which book, risala or saheefa is this mentioned. he said that Syedna abde ali saifuddin collected the bayan of arbabe maqatil, and it is mentioned from waaz to waaz. he used an arabic term which i dont remember.ut my, even if we take this bayan as credible, this was an unprecedented occassion, in every war orders are given by commander in chief. but those same sahaba never asked hussain, if they were going to damascus, or baghdad, and did not seek permission to marry their childeren, or name their childeren, if it was so, then hassan would not have named one of his son usman.
i had posted this thread for academic discussion. because they have created this whole doctorine on the basis of raza, but what if raza na saheb is in such situation that he can no longer perform the umoor of dawat, then the whole palace falls down. if there is no king then there is no kingdom. or is it a kingdom.

[think]

there was no individual raza in the field of battle. read the history behind the battle of ohad, khandak and khyber and many more. There was no individual permission given by the Rasool. All army were of the same thought and all knew what they were fighting for.

[humanbeing]

How does the word “Raza” originate ? Is it a Aabic word or Gujarati word ? or an evolution of Lisaane daawat.

I have very limited knowledge of Arabic Vocabulary. But if I understand correctly. Permission in Arabic is said as “Izn” إذن


Word “Raza” is popularly used in Gujarati context as “Holiday” .. so what is history of word “Raza” ?

Please comment !

[progticide]

there was no individual raza in the field of battle. read the history behind the battle of ohad, khandak and khyber and many more. There was no individual permission given by the Rasool. All army were of the same thought and all knew what they were fighting for.

Think,
You should first read genuine history and then think if you have any brain to think et al.

Dont teach the DBs about history, it is well-engraved in our hearts and minds.

Ohad - When the Muslim archers violated the Raza of the Prophet (SAW) and abandoned their posts in the greed for booty, it was Maula Ali who stood like a mountain between the enemy and the Prophet.
Khandak - When only Maula Ali had the courage to answer the Raza of Prophet (SAW) and responded to the challenge of Amr bin abdevat.
Khyber - When with the Raza of Prophet the banner was handed over to Maula Ali, the only name that roared in the air was Haider and the only sword that shimmered was Zulfiqar. Read history to find out who were the ones who went to conquer Khyber before Maula Ali.

Kid, read the history more carefully again from the correct sources to know who had what thoughts and who fought for what.

[stranger]

Think,
You should first read genuine history and then think if you have any brain to think et al.

Dont teach the DBs about history, it is well-engraved in our hearts and minds.

Ohad - When the Muslim archers violated the Raza of the Prophet (SAW) and abandoned their posts in the greed for booty, it was Maula Ali who stood like a mountain between the enemy and the Prophet.
Khandak - When only Maula Ali had the courage to answer the Raza of Prophet (SAW) and responded to the challenge of Amr bin abdevat.
Khyber - When with the Raza of Prophet the banner was handed over to Maula Ali, the only name that roared in the air was Haider and the only sword that shimmered was Zulfiqar. Read history to find out who were the ones who went to conquer Khyber before Maula Ali.

Its matter of discussion whether we shall seek raza in personal, trivial, each and every matter but what progticide has stated above is correct.

[zulfikar123]

I think there is a difference in the meaning of Raza (permission) and instruction.....

[anajmi]

there was no individual raza in the field of battle. read the history behind the battle of ohad, khandak and khyber and many more. There was no individual permission given by the Rasool. All army were of the same thought and all knew what they were fighting for.

Think,
You should first read genuine history and then think if you have any brain to think et al.

Dont teach the DBs about history, it is well-engraved in our hearts and minds.

Ohad - When the Muslim archers violated the Raza of the Prophet (SAW) and abandoned their posts in the greed for booty, it was Maula Ali who stood like a mountain between the enemy and the Prophet.
Khandak - When only Maula Ali had the courage to answer the Raza of Prophet (SAW) and responded to the challenge of Amr bin abdevat.
Khyber - When with the Raza of Prophet the banner was handed over to Maula Ali, the only name that roared in the air was Haider and the only sword that shimmered was Zulfiqar. Read history to find out who were the ones who went to conquer Khyber before Maula Ali.

Kid, read the history more carefully again from the correct sources to know who had what thoughts and who fought for what.

A most idiotic post and vulgar interpretation of history inspite of being corrected once before. The people on Ohad (Uhud) didn't ask for raza to go and stand on top of Uhud. They were commanded to stand guard over there. They didn't have to give an envelope to the prophet (saw) to go stand on top of it. Infact, when they saw envelopes being distributed, that is when they left their posts and muslims suffered.

Khandak - When only Maula Ali had the courage to answer the Raza of Prophet (SAW)

Another completely idiotic comment. Do the bohras answer the raza of the Syedna or does the Syedna answer the raza of the bohras with an envelope? Did Maula Ali have to give an envelope to the prophet (saw) before getting raza to fight Amr bin abdevat?

Khyber

How much salaam did Maula Ali give to the prophet (saw) to get his raza?

[think]

dbs history is more la more la. strange as you are in your strange way of lopsided thinking you again twist the meaning out of context. To tell you bluntly, there is no need for raza in every little thing you do. you do not need raza for praying or giving help to a needy or to fight for what you think is right. Now please do not tell me that moula Ali took raza and since the rest of the warriors did not take raza that is why some of them were injured in war.

[anajmi]

There is no mention of raza in Muslim history or in the Quran. What the abde idiot is referring to is commands. These were commands given by the prophet (saw) to his army. This has nothing to do with raza. It is a twisted interpretation of history to justify their loot with fools like progticide as their flag bearers.

[badrijanab]

There is no mention of raza in Muslim history or in the Quran. What the abde idiot is referring to is commands. These were commands given by the prophet (saw) to his army. This has nothing to do with raza. It is a twisted interpretation of history to justify their loot with fools like progticide as their flag bearers.

Anajmi,

The Arabic word for "raza" is "izan". "Beiznillah" is used many times in Quran meaning with "raza" of Allah. This negate your contention that "raza" is not mentioned in Quran.

Why not all the 'azad' belonging to influential tribes did not stood up and called 'azaan'? Because not they but only Hazrat Bilal got the 'raza'.

About following hadees, I do not know its authenticity, however, Sunni/Wahabi often quote that during the last time of Prophet Mohammed life; Abubaker got the 'raza' to lead the namaz. It proves attribution of 'raza' with namaz.

In marriage, 'raza' of both bride and groom is required otherwise marriage is null and void.

Hence, 'raza' cannot be outrightly rejected as non-Islamic concept.

[accountability]

In Ghazva Khandak, it was an invitation (not raza) to confront Amr bin Abde marwat. which was accepted by Ali. This invitation was open to all, who ever accepts it. Ali did not play any major role in Ahad. Khyber fell down because of a genius battle plan by Prophet, and excellent execution by Ali.

[anajmi]

badrijanab,

Thank you for correcting me. Does the Quran mention beizniSyedna? Does one have to pay salaam to Allah for his raza? Did Hazrat Bilal request Syedna to make him the Muezzin and did he give the prophet (saw) an envelope as salaam? When Hazrat AbuBakr got the raza to lead the prayer, did he first request it of the prophet (saw) and did he have to give an envelope to the prophet (saw) with salaam in it?

In marriage, 'raza' of both bride and groom is required otherwise marriage is null and void.

Let us not give invalid analogies. I require raza before entering someone's house and I also require raza before entering a toilet in a gas station.

[accountability]

it was not Ahad, when muslim archer disobeyed prophet's order and left their post to grab war bounties. it was ghazva Ahzab aka ghazva khandaq or battle of ditch. it was 5 hijra. Ahad was fought two years earlier in 3 hijri.

[humanbeing]

The Arabic word for "raza" is "izan".

Hi
Where does word “Raza” originate from ? What language or culture ?

[porus]

The Arabic word for "raza" is "izan".

Hi
Where does word “Raza” originate from ? What language or culture ?

raDa, رضى

raza, (actually, raDa) is an Arabic word signifying approval or pleasure. Thus 'raDiyallah anhu' means 'May Allah be pleased with him' or 'May Allah approve of him'.

To seek raDa means 'to seek approval' or 'to ensure someone is pleased with your intentions'. That is the sense in which Bohras use the word.

[accountability]

Does "rada" has any historical forbearance, i have seen syedna giving father and son same name. beside a smart tactic by administration to control, is there any religious significance in fatimid religion. it did not use to be so prevelent, even i remember there wasn't much emphasis back in even eighties. then it becomes contagious.
it is a big hassle too, they would not give rada on phone, you have to go there, it cannot be online. becuase amil wants make money. though they use every bit of technology to track you and but not to facilitate.