Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspective

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badrijanab
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Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspective

#1

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:16 pm

I am not the author of article below. I have merely copy/pasted it from some where else considered to be reliable.

Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem
La Ilaha Illa hu. Ya Mohammed s.a.w.w., Ya Ali a.s.

INDEX
1. Part 1: Meaning of Wasila ............................................................... Point# 1 to 5
2. Part 2: Who are Wasilah ................................................................. Point# 6 to 10
3. Part 3: worshipping or loving Wasilah ........................................... Point# 11
4. Part 4: Difference between worshipper and Wasilah taker.......... Point # 12
5. Part 5: Why is Wasilah required .................................................... Point #13 to 14
6. Part 6: Two aayat mostly quoted by Bohras to justify Wasilah.... Point# 15
7. Part 7: Aayatul Kursi: Only selected one can become Wasilah.... Point# 16
8. Part 8: Dua of Tak'karrub............................................................... Point# 17
9. Part 9: Dua after Washeq on Lailat Al Qadr.................................. Point# 18 & 19
10. Part 10: Two rakat of Twassul namaz.......................................... Poimt# 20
11. Part 11: Sayyed's do not qualify as Wasilah ............................... Point# 21
12. Part 12: Asking from dead............................................................ Point# 22
13. Part 13: Sura 21, Aayat 28 - is vetting wasilah............................. Point# 23
14. Part 14: Three more aayat vouching wasilah.............................. Point# 24

PART 1 - MEANING OF WASILAH

(1) ‘Wasilah’ comes from the root waaw-seen-laam. ‘Wasala’ (different from wasilah) is a verb meaning ‘to seek favour, to plead, or to ask for intercession”. Wasilah (plural wasaa'il) is a verbal noun meaning means, “connection, agent or intercession”. Also derived from it is ‘tawassul’, meaning achievement or connection.

(2) Correct word for nearness is “qurb”. It comes from root qaaf-raa-baa. A very familiar word “qareeb” (near) is from the same root.

(3) “wasi” and “wasila”are two different words derived from different roots. ‘Wasi’ is from waaw-saad-alif (maksura). It means trustee, authorized representative as in Mola Ali a.s. is wasi.

(4) There is a word ‘wasil’, waaw-saad-ya-laam. It means friend. Close but not related to our discussions.

(5) ‘Wasila’ word (different spelling) is also used for a she-camel.
.....(a) Wasilah – WAW, SIN, LAM means "connection" or "means of approach" as in Quran verse 5/35.
.....(b) Waseela – WAW, SAD, LAM means "she-camel" as in Quran verse 5/103.

Summary: To take wasilah means to cause to connect to Allah, which is the way Dawoodi Bohras Ismailiya Shia use the word.

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PART 2 – WHO ARE WASILAH?

(6) Quran is a wasila, so is Aaka Muhammad s.a.w.w., so is anyone whom one considers worth following in worship and obedience to his teaching.

(7) Similarly, if one stand on Mount Arafat and ask for Allah’s forgiveness, one can be sure that they are following a teaching, which is a wasila. You may believe you have been forgiven, but how can you be certain? However, if you asked Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w, and he told you that you have been forgiven, would you not believe him? He is your wasila. Clearly, no shirk is involved here.

(8) You kiss Quran. And you say you are not worshipping it. You kiss Hajar Aswad and you say you are not worshipping it. You kiss Grave of Imam Husain a.s. and you say you are not worshipping it. They are clearly creations of Allah. So where is the problem with this? It is that one forgets the “message” and think ritual is all that is needed. Such thinking is slavery to institutions and not God. This happens to some extent in all societies but has advanced dangerously among Asnashari Shia, Aga Khani and Bohra Shabab.

(9) Quran and Prophet are intermediaries. It is through them, and for Muslims, only through them, that you approach Allah. You cannot say that you do not need an intermediary, which Quran is, and then quote from Quran. That is a logical contradiction. You cannot say I do not need Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w., who is an intermediary, and then say you follow Muhammad s.a.w.w. That is another logical contradiction.

(10) If Muslims do not need saints or holy men, then you must start by eliminating Aaka Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. See how ridiculous this sounds! If you believe in any religion, you necessarily believe in Wasilah (intercession). You just cannot avoid it. The only way you can assert that you do not need an intermediary is not to believe in any religion at all.

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PART 3 – WORSHIPPING OR LOVING WASILAH

(11) You do not worship your Wasilah. You may love your Wasilah and that maybe misinterpreted by ignorant people as shirk. Quran is one Wasilah, so is Salaat. Human-beings, like the Prophets / Wasi / Imams, who seem to be especially favoured are another kind of Wasilah.

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PART 4 – DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WORSHIPPOR AND WASILAH TAKER

(12) Word 'worship' may be describe as formal rituals. When one worship then one they perform rituals like namaaz. To 'follow' means to take the lead of a person whom you believe to be the right Guide. In namaaz, you follow the Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. and other hudaat-kiraam. In other things you follow the Quran. You do not worship the Quran. Allah asks you to take responsibility for your actions and the choice of whom you follow. If you find that your Guide violates the teaching of the Quran, you stop following him.

Wasilah's (person, Quran, ziyarat, etc) are Allah’s creation, and so they cannot be partners of Allah. Allah does not create anything like himself (lam yalid = he does not beget). Canonical worship is only for Allah. All niyyats of namaaz have words ‘li-llahi azza wa jal’ = ‘for Allah, the mighty and glorious’. When you seek intercession, you do not ask someone/something to intercede for you. You ask Allah to accept him/her/it to be your intercessor. We do not worship our Wasilah. We may love your Wasilah and that may be misinterpreted by ignorant people as shirk. Quran is one intercessor, so is Salaat. Human beings, like the Prophet, who seem to us to be especially favored are another kind of Wasilah.

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PART 5 - WHY IS WASILAH REQUIRED?

(13) Allah communicates with humans via wasilah only. Humans too directly address their dua's to Allah. However due to our sins Allah may or may not pay attention to our dua's. Should we club Salwaat (a type of wasilah) or those whom Allah too used as wasilah then with grace / influence of those wasilah our dua's/prayers will receive Allah's attention. Proof of above in Quran - Sura An'Nisa (4), Aayat# 64: Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali: We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

(14) Inference: Quran keh raha hai ki gunahgaar ne direct Allah se maafi nahi maangi balki woh Aaka Mohammed s.a.w.w. ke paas aaye, aur Rasool Allah se dua karva'e ki Allah unke gunah maaf kare. Quran 4/64 se, yeh sabit hota hai ki Quran ne wasilah lene ko approve kiya hai. Is case me Rasool Allah ke paas two choices thi, eik yeh ki us gunaahgaar ko aap keh dete ki tu khud tere liye dua kar le, 2nd choice yeh thi ki woh Allah ke mehboob hai aur woh us gunhagaar ke liye Wasilah ban kar dua kare. Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. ne 2nd choice ko chuna, aur Rasool jo kare wohi aapki ummat ko / aapke mannar ko karna chahiye, to Wasila lena Rasool Allah ki Sunnat hai. Hum bhi Quran 4/64 ke gunahgaar jaise hi gunaahgar hai, isiliye humari dua'o ko kabool karvane ke liye hume bhi Wasilah lena chahiye.

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PART 6 - TWO AAYATS MOSTLY QUOTED BY BOHRAS TO JUSTIFY TAKING WASILAH

(15) Following both aayats have word, "WASILA" in it and it commands taking wasilah for acceptance of our prayers. .
(I) Sura Ma’edah (5), Aayat# 35 -
■Transliteration: Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo ittaqoo Allaha waibtaghoo ilayhi AL WASEELATA wajahidoo fee sabeelihi laAAallakum tuflihoona.
■Translation (by Abdullah Yusuf Ali): O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him (wasilah), and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.
■Inference: Wasilah lo.
■ “wa-btaghu ilay-hi al-wasilah”
■Ibtaghu=desire, seek Ilay-hi=towards him Literally then, “seek towards him a means”. Idiomatically, “Seek a means of approach towards him.”

(II) Sura Al Isra (17), Aayat# 57
■Transliteration: Olaika allatheena yadAAoona yabtaghoona ila rabbihimu AL WASEELATA ayyuhum aqrabu wayarjoona rahmatahu wayakhafoona AAathabahu inna AAathaba rabbika kana mahthooran
■Translation (by Abdullah Yusuf Ali): Those whom they call upon do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Wasilah), - even those who are nearest: they hope for His Mercy and fear His Wrath: for the Wrath of thy Lord is something to take heed of.
■Inference: wasilah lo

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PART 7 - AYATUL KURSI: ONLY SELECTED ONE CAN BECOME WASILAH

(16) Sura 2, Aayat# 255 (Aayatul Kursi): (translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali) -.... Who is there can intercede (wasilah) in His presence except as He permitteth? ... .It is not possible for humans to approach Allah without an wasilah of some kind. The only question is whether or not Allah will accept the intermediary of your choice. One will find that out on the Day of Judgment. Aayatul Kursi categorically says that only those can act as 'wasilah' to whom Allah permits.

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PART 8 - DUA TAQARRUB FOR INVOKING WASILAH

(17) Invoking wasila is normally a form of namaaz or dua to seek nearness to Allah through some means which is primarily a prayer to Allah or asking someone to pray to Allah for us. These someone are generally pious people. One example is the Dua Taqarrub recited with raised hands after every Farz namaz. In the begining of the dua, you say “Allahumma inni ataqarrabu ilayka bika” meaning “Allah, I seek nearness to you through you (your wasila). It goes on to say “wa bi mawlana muhammadin nabiiyika” meaning “And through your nabi Muhammad s.a.w.w.”. This dua starts with wasila of Allah. That would be strange for Wahhabis, Salafi and Asnashari Shia to understand. Why do one need to invoke wasila of Allah to be near Allah? Because what follows in the dua are wasa’il created by Allah for his worshippers to invoke, such as Nabi, Wasi and Imams.

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PART 9 - DUA AFTER WASHEQ ON LAILAT AL QADR

(18) Hadhihi as-salaat, fa hadiyya minni ilayk, ya Molana Muhammad Wa ilayki, Ya Molatina Fatima Taqabbaluha minni wadaifu li biha al-adaaf al jazila . This prayer is a gift from me to you O, Molana Muhmmad s.a.w.w. and to you O, Molatina Fatima a.s. Accept it from me And through it multiply it many-fold. What can Aaka Muhammad s.a.w.w. and Molatina Fatima a.s. give us in return for our gift? They can pray for us in return and we expect its effect to multiply because we believe Allah will not turn away their prayers. Final decision to accept rests with Allah alone.

(19) Dua is offered with a variation of sujood. Instead of touching floor with brow and nose, the floor is touched with either cheek. This is to make it clear that supplication is to humans and not to God. Sujood, normally only for allah, would not be appropriate as the dua is addressed to prophet and his daughter.

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PART 10 - TWO RAKAAT OF TWASSUL NAMAZ

(20) This Namaaz is addressed to Allah with niyyat including words “lillahiazza wa jal”. Tawassul is asking someone to pray for you. If it was asking someone to cure you or give you wealth, you would not address your namaaz to Allah, would you? Wahhabis, Sunni and Asnashari Shia think that that is what we are doing. That is because they are ignorant and, in their ignorance they invoke Wahhab (they think they are doing it for Allah) to murder innocents.

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PART 11 - SYYED'S DO NOT QUALIFY AS WASILAH

(21) Quran 29:15/18 - Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. announces in public that WE are from your Ilahi (Allah). Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w has not used singular but pluaral to address himself. Meaning all the Mustakar Imams and Ahle'bait, they all are from Allah - their Wasilah must be taken. Mola Ali a.s. aur Molatina Fatima a.s. ki shaadi hoovi eik general aur eik special, eik duniya me hoovi aur eik jannat me, eik se aam insaan (Sayyed's) hoove aur eik se special (Mustakar Imam). So, Syyed's have no Islamic merrit. Their wasilah cannot be taken.

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PART 12 - ASKING FROM DEAD

(22) If Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w. is dead, why keep repeating the second sentence of the Kalmae-Shahada"La ilah illa Allah. Muhammadun Rasulullah" It means Muhammad is Allah's Messenger. Why not say "Kana Muhammad Rasulullah" meaning Muhammad was Allah's Messenger. And why say the second sentence anyway? He is dead and gone, right? The reason why Shahada is said in its entirety in the present tense is thatNabi Syyedina Muhammad Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. is the wasila to get near Allah. Allah used him as the wasila to reach human beings. Quran Sura 4: Aayat# 64 brings this out clearly. Allah says that if sinners had sought forgiveness through Muhammad, Allah would have pardoned them. The ayat does not say if they had come to Allah exclusively but through Muhammad as well. Why would Allah say that in the Quran if he was next to people's jugular vein? Quran Sura 3: Aayat# 169 (Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali): Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.

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PART 13 - SURA 21, AAYAT 28 IS VETTING WASILAH

(23) He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession (Wasilah) except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory).

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PART 14 - THREE MORE AAYAT VOUCHING WASILAH

Quran 10:3 - Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (Wasilah) (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

Quran 20:109 - On that Day shall no intercession (Wasilah) avail except for those for whompermission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word isacceptable to Him.

Quran 19:87 - None shall have the power of intercession (Wasilah) , but such a oneas has received permission (or promise) from ((Allah)) Most Gracious.

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The End.

Wa aakhiro dawana anil hamdo lillah he Rabbil aalameen.
Last edited by badrijanab on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#2

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:27 pm

Admin
Please move this thread to Islam section.
So we can present another pov.
JAK

Peace
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#3

Unread post by Peace » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:47 pm

Dear Badrijanab
Please ask from your "Relaible source=author of the article" about this ayat.

Surah 2 verse: 186
Translation: Yousuf Ali

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.

Translation: Sahih International

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.

badrijanab
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#4

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:24 pm

Peace wrote:Dear Badrijanab
Please ask from your "Relaible source=author of the article" about this ayat.

Surah 2 verse: 186
Translation: Yousuf Ali

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.

Translation: Sahih International

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.
Peace,

Answer to your question is in your question itself, the first line of your question is the answer indeed: "When My servants ask thee concerning Me." The channel of conversation is inbuilt in this line:

(i) Allah servant will ask Mohammed and NOT directly to Allah. So communication is flowing from servant to Allah via (Wasilah) Prophet Moahmmed.

(ii) When Allah is replying he is following the same path i.e. Allah to Prophet and then to servants.

(iii) In your quoted Aayat itself message is not gone directly between servant and Allah but via the medium / wasilah of Prophet in between.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#5

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:22 pm

Shakir ( a shia translator) 2:186
And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:186] (Shia commentary)
Allah is very near, nearer than the jugular vein. Awareness of this fact serves two purposes-it stops man from drifting towards evil, and secondly it gives him heart and confidence to rely upon Allah alone, independent of all created beings, making him understand the ever-living reality of Allah who alone controls the whole universe and that which takes place in it.

He answers the prayer of every sincere supplicant when he calls on Him. Allah hears every cry of help and gives to His devotee that which is best in his interest, known to His infinite wisdom alone. Acceptance of prayer does not mean immediate fulfilment of whatever is sought.

"So they should answer My call" means man should carry out Allah's will expressed through His commandments to regulate and discipline the life of this world.

"And believe in Me" means awareness of the ever-living presence of the almighty and all-knowing Lord creator, equal to or like unto whom is no one.

To get that which is desired man has to make efforts and employ all the means at his disposal, arranged and provided by Allah, and then invoke Him to let the labour bear fruit. To use the available means properly, to apply the native faculties, and to pay close attention he needs guidance for which he invokes the highest authorities from whom nothing is hidden and for whom nothing is impossible. Through prayers guidance is received as to how the efforts should be made to fulfil the desires. The merciful Lord who is also all-wise knows what is profitable (An-am: 41). Sometimes Allah puts His devoted servants to test and trial (Baqarah: 155). In this sense man's efforts and his prayers are inseparable.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says (a Shia):

The act of invocation has been recommended by Allah Himself, because it helps to make the efforts of man fruitful. This passage dismisses the fatalist view that man's destiny is predetermined, regardless of his actions; this verse not only recommends prayer but also promises a response, showing that prayer which is a human action, has its effect on determining the destiny. The prayer to which response is promised should be a sincere cry from the depth of the heart. If there is predestination as the fatalists say, then this verse and verse 5 of Al Fatihah become meaningless. Please refer to the commentary of al Fatihah: 5.

Imam Ali ibna abi Talib says:

Put faith in Allah. Seek His protection.
Direct your prayers, requests, solicitations and supplications to Him and Him alone.
To give as well as to withhold lies in His (only in His) power.


Ask as much of His favours as you can.

Know that Allah owns the treasures of the heavens and the earth. Not only He has given permission to ask for His mercy and favours, but also has promised to listen to your prayers. He has not appointed guards to prevent your prayers reaching Him. Invoke His help in difficulties and distress. Implore Him to grant you long life and sound health. Pray to Him for prosperity.

Think over it that by simply granting you the privilege of praying for His favours and mercy, He has handed over the keys of His treasures to you. Whenever you are in need, pray, and He gives His favours and blessings.

Sometimes you find requests are not immediately granted. Do not be disappointed. Fulfilment of desires rests with the true purpose or intention of the pray-er. More often fulfilment is delayed because the merciful Lord wants to bestow upon you suitable rewards. In the meantime bear patiently hardships, believing sincerely in His help. You will get better favours, because, unknowingly, you may ask for things which are really harmful to you. Many of your requests, if granted, may bring eternal damnation.

So, at times, withholding fulfilment is a blessing in disguise.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#6

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:32 pm

Can you read like this

And when My servants ask you concerning Me,
Allah is advising Prophet to say as follows when His servent asks concering Him (that is Allah)
then surely I am very near;
Allah assures his servent that he is close and near to him as near as his jegular vain.
I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.
Meaning of above should be clear even to Taghut worshipping Abde.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#7

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:43 pm

Answer to your question is in your question itself, the first line of your question is the answer indeed: "When My servants ask thee concerning Me." The channel of conversation is inbuilt in this line:
when you are born with permenent Wasila glasses then you see Wasila in every Aya of Qur'an.

Instead of spreading prayer rug and performing 2 rakat Namaaz for need you run to dead saints wasting precious time and resaurces.

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:01 pm

badrijanab wrote:
Peace wrote:Dear Badrijanab
Please ask from your "Relaible source=author of the article" about this ayat.

Surah 2 verse: 186
Translation: Yousuf Ali

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.

Translation: Sahih International

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.
Peace,

Answer to your question is in your question itself, the first line of your question is the answer indeed: "When My servants ask thee concerning Me." The channel of conversation is inbuilt in this line:

(i) Allah servant will ask Mohammed and NOT directly to Allah. So communication is flowing from servant to Allah via (Wasilah) Prophet Moahmmed.

(ii) When Allah is replying he is following the same path i.e. Allah to Prophet and then to servants.

(iii) In your quoted Aayat itself message is not gone directly between servant and Allah but via the medium / wasilah of Prophet in between.
We have to apply a little bit of aql over here. Allah is answering the question and the answer is recorded in his own words in his own book. Anyone who goes and asks anyone else after this, concerning Allah, then the respondent should refer him to this ayah of the Quran. The respondent shouldn't be waiting for a response from Allah. If he tells you that he has a direct line with Allah, then he is a fake. The message came via the medium / wasilah of the prophet (saw) and has been recorded in the Quran for time immemorial. No other medium / wasilah exists or is needed.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#9

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:05 pm

THE ESSAY- On praying to anybody except Allah SWT
by Muslim First on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:54 pm

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

badrijanab
Spend some time reading and reflecting

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:24 pm

PART 3 – WORSHIPPING OR LOVING WASILAH

(11) You do not worship your Wasilah. You may love your Wasilah and that maybe misinterpreted by ignorant people as shirk. Quran is one Wasilah, so is Salaat. Human-beings, like the Prophets / Wasi / Imams, who seem to be especially favoured are another kind of Wasilah.
There is a difference between wasilah in the Quran and the wasilah as practiced by the ignorant bohras of today. Wasilah is a way to seek nearness to Allah for those who are incapable of seeking nearness to Allah on their own. For eg. I think I am going to fail in an exam and I go to my dad and ask him to pay some donation money to the principal so that he passes me. That is the wasilah as practiced by the bohras of today. Pay money to the Syedna and he will pass you in your final exam. That is not how it works. Wasilah is ok, but if anyone says that there is no salvation without wasilah, then he is a liar. Allah says in the Quran, there is no intercession (rule), but only by his will (exception). The bohra interpretation is salvation is through intercession (rule) only!! Anyone who says that he cannot enter jannah without the help of wasi or imams is a mushrik. You can enter jannah only with the help of Allah and no one else. The prophet (saw) has said that he himself won't be able to enter jannah without the mercy of Allah.

Second, the prophet (saw) has been called a mercy for all mankind in the Quran. So if Allah permits intercession on the day of judgment, we can rest assured that the first person who gets this "raza" will be the prophet (saw). Many traditions state that the prophet (saw) will intercede for each and every one of us who are from his ummah. If the intercession of the prophet (saw) is not accepted for any unfortunate soul, do you think the intercession of the Dai will be accepted? And that too when there will be no facility for passing an envelope to the Dai on that day!! I will be responding to the other points raised by badrijanab as I find time.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#11

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:59 pm

Br anajmi
Badrijamat is reancarnated Labbaik

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:36 pm

PART 5 - WHY IS WASILAH REQUIRED?

(13) Allah communicates with humans via wasilah only. Humans too directly address their dua's to Allah. However due to our sins Allah may or may not pay attention to our dua's.
This is akin to blasphemy against the Almighty who says in the Quran that he is nearer to us than our jugular. What does that mean? It means he is always paying attention to our needs. The Quran was revealed not for the righteous, but for those who are wavering. The prophet (saw) was sent for those who are in search of the truth. The truth that is the Quran. We have the word of Allah with us. Each one of us has his word with us. Study the word and understand it. Any wasilah giver who charges you money for his wasilah is a fake. And Dai's wasilah costs premium!! Did the prophet (saw) ever charge money for his wasilah?

Sura An'Nisa (4), Aayat# 64: Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali: We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.


The prime difference between the wasilah of the prophet (saw) and that of the fake godmen of today is quite obvious. The fake godmen will charge money for their wasilah. The prophet (saw) never charged any money of his wasilah and he has been referred to as a mercy for all man kind in the Quran.

Now it is difficult to find true men of god. Difficult, not impossible. In the meantime, use the wasilah of the Quran and the Salaah. We know for sure that the Quran will never be corrupted like the Dai has been and the Quran is the word of Allah himself. That wasilah will be much more powerful than a self declared godman.

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#13

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:46 pm

(I) Sura Ma’edah (5), Aayat# 35 -
■Transliteration: Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo ittaqoo Allaha waibtaghoo ilayhi AL WASEELATA wajahidoo fee sabeelihi laAAallakum tuflihoona.
■Translation (by Abdullah Yusuf Ali): O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him (wasilah), and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.
■Inference: Wasilah lo.
■ “wa-btaghu ilay-hi al-wasilah”
■Ibtaghu=desire, seek Ilay-hi=towards him Literally then, “seek towards him a means”. Idiomatically, “Seek a means of approach towards him.”
The means of approach as mentioned by Allah again and again in the Quran is what? Salah, Zakah, fast, Zikr of Allah, Righteousness, Patience, faith and good deeds. These are the means of approach to Allah. Not some fake godmen who charge money for you to approach Allah.
(II) Sura Al Isra (17), Aayat# 57
■Transliteration: Olaika allatheena yadAAoona yabtaghoona ila rabbihimu AL WASEELATA ayyuhum aqrabu wayarjoona rahmatahu wayakhafoona AAathabahu inna AAathaba rabbika kana mahthooran
■Translation (by Abdullah Yusuf Ali): Those whom they call upon do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Wasilah), - even those who are nearest: they hope for His Mercy and fear His Wrath: for the Wrath of thy Lord is something to take heed of.
■Inference: wasilah lo
This ayah is being misinterpreted to promote wasilah when the message being delivered in this passage of the Quran is completely opposite. This happens when people quote ayahs out of context. Look at this ayah along with the previous ayah.

17:56 SAY: "Call upon those [beings] whom you imagine [to be endowed with divine powers] beside Him and [you will find that] they have it not in their power to remove any affliction from you, or to shift it [elsewhere].
17:57 Those [saintly beings] whom they invoke are themselves striving to obtain their Sustainer's favour - [even] those among them who are closest [to Him] - hoping for His grace and dreading His chastisement: for, verily, thy Sustainer's chastisement is something to beware of!

It is quite clear over here that those whom we imagine to be endowed with these wasilah powers do not have any power. This is the beauty of the Quran.

2:255 GOD - there is no deity save Him, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent Fount of All Being. Neither slumber overtakes Him, nor sleep. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth. Who is there that could intercede with Him, unless it be by His leave? He knows all that lies open before men and all that is hidden from them, whereas they cannot attain to aught of His knowledge save that which He wills [them to attain]. His eternal power overspreads the heavens and the earth, and their upholding wearies Him not. And he alone is truly exalted, tremendous.

Allah keeps repeating this over and over again in the Quran. There is no intercession except by his leave. That means we have to assume that there is no intercession. How do we know any particular person that we assume has Allah's leave actually has it and is not conning you? You see the lifestyle of the person. You see the character of the person. Is the Syedna a kind of person that can get Allah's leave to intercede and then charge money for this intercession? Don't we have even an iota of Aql left in our God given brains?
PART 8 - DUA TAQARRUB FOR INVOKING WASILAH

(17) Invoking wasila is normally a form of namaaz or dua to seek nearness to Allah through some means which is primarily a prayer to Allah or asking someone to pray to Allah for us. These someone are generally pious people.
Salaah is the best form of wasilah to Allah. Allah mentions this wasilah dozens of time in the Quran.
Next, if we go to someone who is pious and ask him to pray for us, and he asks us to give him Rs 100 for this wasilah, do you think he is a pious person or a conman?
One example is the Dua Taqarrub recited with raised hands after every Farz namaz. In the begining of the dua, you say “Allahumma inni ataqarrabu ilayka bika” meaning “Allah, I seek nearness to you through you (your wasila). It goes on to say “wa bi mawlana muhammadin nabiiyika” meaning “And through your nabi Muhammad s.a.w.w.”. This dua starts with wasila of Allah. That would be strange for Wahhabis, Salafi and Asnashari Shia to understand. Why do one need to invoke wasila of Allah to be near Allah? Because what follows in the dua are wasa’il created by Allah for his worshippers to invoke, such as Nabi, Wasi and Imams.
Can you post the full dua? I am wondering how you went from Nabi to Nabi, Wasi and Imams!!

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#14

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:09 am

badrijanab wrote:PART 14 - THREE MORE AAYAT VOUCHING WASILAH

Quran 10:3 - Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (Wasilah) (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

Quran 20:109 - On that Day shall no intercession (Wasilah) avail except for those for whompermission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word isacceptable to Him.

Quran 19:87 - None shall have the power of intercession (Wasilah) , but such a oneas has received permission (or promise) from ((Allah)) Most Gracious.

*************************************************************************************************************
The End.

Wa aakhiro dawana anil hamdo lillah he Rabbil aalameen.
Here is the beauty of misinterpretations and misrepresentations. They are easily caught!!

Quran 10:3 - Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (No Wasilah) (can plead with Him) except (only exceptions allowed) after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

Quran 20:109 - On that Day shall no intercession (No Wasilah) avail except (only exceptions allowed) for those for whompermission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word isacceptable to Him.

Quran 19:87 - None shall have the power of intercession (None has the power to do Wasilah) , but such a oneas has received permission (only exceptions allowed) (or promise) from ((Allah)) Most Gracious.

Peace
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#15

Unread post by Peace » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:08 am

when you are born with permenent Wasila glasses then you see Wasila in every Aya of Qur'an.
Its all about perception.

Point to be noted in the verses of wasila/intercession that no one's name is disclosed. Only Allah's permission will decide that who will intercede.

Another point is that there are many people who ask help or do prayer without wasila then why their prayers are answered? And it is also not the case that only Dawoodi Bohras prayers are answered.

I am not against the wasila but in my opinion Allah hears or answers prayer whom he wishes, with or without the condition of wasila.


May Allah show us Siraat-e-Mustaqeem and increase our level on Imaan. Ameen.
Last edited by Peace on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Peace
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#16

Unread post by Peace » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:08 am

deleted.

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:57 am

Prayers are to and Allah SWT only

Read
THE ESSAY- On praying to anybody except Allah SWT
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

You may ask your family, your brothers and sisters, elders, religious leaders etc. to pray for you.
It is only for Allah to grant your prayers or not.

profastian
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#18

Unread post by profastian » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:34 am

anajmi wrote:
badrijanab wrote:PART 14 - THREE MORE AAYAT VOUCHING WASILAH

Quran 10:3 - Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (Wasilah) (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

Quran 20:109 - On that Day shall no intercession (Wasilah) avail except for those for whompermission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word isacceptable to Him.

Quran 19:87 - None shall have the power of intercession (Wasilah) , but such a oneas has received permission (or promise) from ((Allah)) Most Gracious.

*************************************************************************************************************
The End.

Wa aakhiro dawana anil hamdo lillah he Rabbil aalameen.
Here is the beauty of misinterpretations and misrepresentations. They are easily caught!!

Quran 10:3 - Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (No Wasilah) (can plead with Him) except (only exceptions allowed) after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

Quran 20:109 - On that Day shall no intercession (No Wasilah) avail except (only exceptions allowed) for those for whompermission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word isacceptable to Him.

Quran 19:87 - None shall have the power of intercession (None has the power to do Wasilah) , but such a oneas has received permission (only exceptions allowed) (or promise) from ((Allah)) Most Gracious.
He conveniently forgets to highlight the "excepts" and the "buts". And he talks of quoting and highlighting out of context.
Any sane person(except for the insane wahabis) can interpret the above Ayats in only one way."Wasila is allowed, but only of selected people"

humanbeing
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#19

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:03 am

profastian wrote:"Wasila is allowed, but only of selected people"
Is wasila a must ? can someone seek favours from allah directly and through wasilah both !! why is such a fanatic requirement of a wasilah in middle, why its not a liberal concept ? Is allah so inaccessible that he must be reached through various wasaails only and that too different sect has their own set of intercessors ridiculing other wasaails

For the macro muslims; Quran, Prophet Muhammad and his teachings through family & friends are a source to learn way to Allah, more or less it remains same for all muslims. But what we see in reality, all sects of muslims are ridiculing each other and thumping down their own set of leaders in current time to be pristine and pious to reach Allah creating a long chain of intercessors and sub intercessors.

Such is the state that, now intercessors of allah has their own intercessors . I understand we need organization for better management. But mixing administrative and moral responsibilities with divinity and larger than life image to create monopolistic power fiefdoms is an obvious corruption there to see.

Many muslims goes to dargaahs to take wasila of the good men resting in graves and they require a whole set of money oriented ritual ! in bohra culture, such wasilaah rituals have reached superstitious levels and people are showering money in various ways mixing prayers and belief in worshipping rituals.

Allah neither his wasaail require chaadar or silver gold zari or marbled musloems, royal chandeliers, faals or gullaks to proportionate their importance or weightage of prayer / wish / desire to be fulfilled.

Allah’s court is not a government office that heavier the payout sooner/better will be the result ! Allah gives or takes as he wishes be it to anyone, even non muslims.

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#20

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:07 am

He conveniently forgets to highlight the "excepts" and the "buts". And he talks of quoting and highlighting out of context.
Any sane person(except for the insane wahabis) can interpret the above Ayats in only one way."Wasila is allowed, but only of selected people"
The reason excepts and buts are not highlighted is because these are exceptions required only in case of extreme morons like yourself who are so dumb that they have no chance of entering jannah unless some righteous person (not the Dai who can be bribed) intercedes on their behalf.

porus
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#21

Unread post by porus » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:13 am

Why is 'intercession' by humans on the Day of Judgement being considered even a possibility? What could an interceder plead on behalf of a sinner that Allah is not aware of? Allah is omniscient. Is He not?

I prefer Asad's interpretation of 'intercession'. Sinners who have repented and are granted redemption will, by Allah's grace, be presented to Prophet as a 'pat on the back' to show how successful the Prophet has been in delivering the message. It is Allah returning His favor to His most beloved human. To be sure, Prophet may not even be aware of the reformed sinner until he is presented to him.

We can be sure that there is no support in the Quran for 'intercession' by saints as popularly believed.

Wasilah is asking someone you consider closer to Allah other than yourself to pray for you. That is now. Not on the day of judgement.

It is better to ask the Dai directly to pray for you than to offer 2 rakaats of tawassul of the Dai. The latter seems to be a meaningless exercise.

Better way is to pray to Allah to assist you in being on the path shown by the Dai. Just like the Dua taqarrub, which is a prayer to Allah to assist you in following the path of those whom you consider are closer to Allah, Prophet and Imams.
Last edited by porus on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:18 am

There is a surah in the Quran which does the exact same thing and we repeat it in every rakah of salah.

badrijanab
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#23

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:54 am

anajmi wrote:
He conveniently forgets to highlight the "excepts" and the "buts". And he talks of quoting and highlighting out of context.
Any sane person(except for the insane wahabis) can interpret the above Ayats in only one way."Wasila is allowed, but only of selected people"
The reason excepts and buts are not highlighted is because these are exceptions required only in case of extreme morons like yourself who are so dumb that they have no chance of entering jannah unless some righteous person (not the Dai who can be bribed) intercedes on their behalf.
It is Quran tendency to present the point by 'rejecting all' and then giving exceptions. Example: La Ilaha Illallah = There is no god except Allah.

Thus, those Quranic aayat proves the legitimacy of Wasilah as per Bohras doctrine, and reject the outright rejection by some extremist sects of Islam.

badrijanab
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#24

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:58 am

anajmi wrote:There is a surah in the Quran which does the exact same thing and we repeat it in every rakah of salah.
Does that Surah stops anyone to bring recommendations (wasilah) to seek Allah's help?

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:04 am

badrijanab wrote:
anajmi wrote: The reason excepts and buts are not highlighted is because these are exceptions required only in case of extreme morons like yourself who are so dumb that they have no chance of entering jannah unless some righteous person (not the Dai who can be bribed) intercedes on their behalf.
It is Quran tendency to present the point by 'rejecting all' and then giving exceptions. Example: La Ilaha Illallah = There is no god except Allah.

Thus, those Quranic aayat proves the legitimacy of Wasilah as per Bohras doctrine, and reject the outright rejection by some extremist sects of Islam.
Correct. So you should believe in no God but Allah and believe in No Wasilah except that given by Allah.

anajmi
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:45 am

The reason I refer to the bohras as mushriks is exactly this. They believe that they cannot enter jannah without the intercession of a human. They need a human just as much as they need Allah. Hence they have associated partners with Allah and hence they are mushriks. Any muslim who believes that he cannot enter jannah without the intercession of his personal godman is a mushrik.

progticide
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#27

Unread post by progticide » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:26 am

badrijanab wrote: It is Quran tendency to present the point by 'rejecting all' and then giving exceptions. Example: La Ilaha Illallah = There is no god except Allah.
Badrijanab,

Interesting article. However, need one clarification from you since it was difficult to understand your personal belief from the information you have given above on wasilah.


Do you believe in all the Panjatan Pak, Aimmat Tahereen & all 52 Duat Mutlaqeen of Dawoodi Bohras as the only true and rightful Wasilah?

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#28

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:15 am

progticide wrote:
Do you believe in all the Panjatan Pak, Aimmat Tahereen & all 52 Duat Mutlaqeen of Dawoodi Bohras as the only true and rightful Wasilah?
Amazing belief

Porgie;
Can you post Aya of Quran appointing this group except Prophet saw in charge of "wasila" hot line?

Spend little time reading this

Read
THE ESSAY- On praying to anybody except Allah SWT
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

sixfeetunder
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#29

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:54 am

A good article on Intercession (Shafa'ah):

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/9.htm#_ftn109

Allah is omniscient and ever-hearing. Everyone knows that. If Allah wanted everyone to ask him directly only, why did he include the below two verses in The Qur'an?:

(The brothers of Yusuf) said, “O our father! Ask forgiveness from Allah for our sins. Indeed, we have been sinners.” He said, “I will ask my Lord for forgiveness for you.” Verily, He, and only He, is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Qur'an - 012.097-98

One can ask Allah directly or through an intermediary. However, one should not think the intermediary is the 'end'. It is simply a means to an end. The permission for intercession has also been given by Allah only.

The extremist approach is asking everything through intercession, as if Allah won't listen without an intermediary!! Also, intercession is not like a key to paradise, that one can commit as many sins he/she wants and think that the Prophet or Ahle Bayt or some saint will rescue him/her.

There is a famous saying from Imam Jafar as Sadiq:

“Our intercession is not for those who consider the Prayers unimportant."
(Bihār al-Anwār vol.3)

Muslim First
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Re: Wasilah /Intercession- Quran i.e. Dawoodi Bohras perspec

#30

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:57 am

“Our intercession is not for those who consider the Prayers unimportant."
(Bihār al-Anwār vol.3)
No 1
We believe Imam Jafar RA is not in position to intercede since he is dead.
No 2
Show me one Muslim wether he is 5 time Namazi or not will say
Namaaz is unimportant (except Agakhanis who do not pray Namaaz)