A Good read by Asghar Ali Engineer

[Muslim First]

Does any one know how many times Hazarat Ali (s.a.) mentioned in Quran?

According many Shia scholars 300 times!! wherever you find the word ULIL AMRA' in Quran, that ayahs implied to Hazarat Ali (s.a.)

[Muslim First]

Ahl e Bayt n Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ's mother Mary was also known as our Lady of Fatima,he called his Holy Father ELLI and he was crucified.
Similarly Imam Hussien mother was Bibi Fatima,his father was Moula ALI and he was Martyed.

You get it
Jesus's Holy father was ELLI (God Muslims call him Allah)
Imam Hassan and Hussein's father is Hz Ali ( Allah by logic)

[Muslim First]

Ahle Bayt n lord Ram
Lord ram was denied kingship for 14 years because of his stepmother influencing king dasrath in favour of his son Bharat,Ram wife name was sita and had 2 sons luv n khush.
similary.Moula ALI was kept away as Khalifa for 24 years because bibi fatima stepmother Ayesha role n influence in making her Father Abu baker as first Khalifa.moula ALI had two sons Hasan n hussien.

[Muslim First]

Did you know that Hazarat Ali (s.a.) mentioned in Shikh's Gurbani? Hazarat Ali (s.a.) mentioned in Gurbani as follows:-

"ਮੁਰਤਜ਼ਾ ਅਲੀ ਸ਼ੇਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਈ, ਖਾਲਿਕ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਦੀ ਅਤਾਈ"
"Murtaza Ali Shere Khudai, Khalik Ta Ko Di Ataai".

The Above words are Guru Nanak Saheb, meaning
"Murtaza Ali is a TIGER of Allah (SHER-E-KHUDA), and this prestige/dignity has given him by Allah"'

[Muslim First]

“Our teaching is difficult, particularly arduous, exasperating, distressing.  Offer it to people in small quantities.  To those who acknowledge it, tell more, but avoid telling more to him who denies it.”
- Imam ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, (Muhammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, The Spirituality of Shi‘i Islam, 294,

“Nine tenths of the Religion consists of taqīyyah; whoever does not practice this has no Religion; Taqīyyah is part of my Religion and that of my ancestors; whoever does not keep taqīyyah is devoid of Faith.”
- Imam Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq, (Muhammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, The Divine Guide in Early Shi‘ism, 129,

From:


(  http://ismailignosis.com/2012/07/23/saw ... f-fasting/ )

123

[Hanif]

As for Hanif's statements, he is responsible for what he writes. You better ask him rather than tickling my funny bone.

dear brother,

I do not read what this man posts because he just barks and barks. Somebody in this forum compared him to a dog. So no use talking to this guy.

Neither it is worth arguing with the Liar and a slanderer, who calls himself mirchi.

I have better things do in this holy month than fight with a dog, or a slanderer and a liar.


Now, enjoy this clip. This is where the dogs and mirchies come from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWq6QATT ... ta_player/

As for why there is no mention of Ali's name in the Qur'an, ask the compilers of the Qur'an, who rejected the ayats in possession of Hazarat Ali and Hazarat Ayesha.
In the Sura quoted by brther Salim, Allah SWT asks "reveal that which has been revealed to you..." That was the message: Reveal Ali's Imamat but these people removed that so the last line has become confusing for these Jahaliyas. And they have no guts to admit that Ali was declared Mola of the faithful although the asahabas did bayah of Hazarat Ali AS. It is all in their books. But they are busy digging dirt and getting their hands and mouth dirty. Let them dig till Qiyama. They will be getting nowhere. Look at their pathetic condition around the world. .

Instead they are saying that Prophet was asked to reveal the Qur'an. This was the end of the Naboowat and did Allah SWT just realised that the Prophet had not revealed the Qur'an? So what was the prophet doing since he was declared a Prophet? Does that make sense?

These Asahabas, left the Prophet's body and ran to to make an election. Who buried the Prophet? Hazarat Ali AS. And who is Ali AS? The leader of the Shias. Shias are on the right path because they followed Allah's message regarding "Ali's Imamat. Naboowat was ending and Imamat was beginning.. Now let the dogs start barking and let the mirchi eats his own mirchi.

I am glad I am the follower of Hazarat Ali AS and his progeny.

I had quoted this before and am re-quoting again: As Reynold A. Nicholson puts it:

God indeed remains the creator of the world, but He is no longer in any direct sense its ruler. He is absolutely transcendent, and since the moving of the heavenly spheres would be incompatible with His unity, that function is assigned to One by whose command the spheres are moved, i.e. to the muta. The muta is not identical with God: he must therefore be a created being...{He} represents the archetypal Spirit of Muhammad, the Heqavenly Man created in the image of God and regarded as a Cosmic Power on whom depends the order and preservation of the Universe.

When the Prophet SAW departed this world, Allah SWT nominated Hazarat Ali AS to continue that "Cosmic Power", and that is why all Shias believe Imamat would have to be present without which this world would end.

Unfortunately the Jahaliyat part of Islam is still asking where it is in Qur'an, Sunnah and ahadith, which they have not and are not following and do not even know what they are otherwise they would not be doing what they are doing on this forum.

[anajmi]

As for why there is no mention of Ali's name in the Qur'an, ask the compilers of the Qur'an, who rejected the ayats in possession of Hazarat Ali and Hazarat Ayesha.

Oh Oh. This guys is digging a deeper hole for the shia. As per him the shia believe that the Quran we have is not the complete Quran. Well, well, well!! I think the less he reads my post, the more we learn about the true shia faith. Keep it up my 12-hour-fast brother.

In the Sura quoted by brther Salim, Allah SWT asks "reveal that which has been revealed to you..."

This is the best translation of that ayah "reveal that which has been revealed to you...". WOW!! Two reveals in one sentence. I guess I have to go back to the beginning of arabic school!!

Instead they are saying that Prophet was asked to reveal the Qur'an.

No, you idol worshipping moron. The prophet (saw) wasn't asked to reveal the Quran. The prophet (saw) was asked to announce what was revealed to him. You should shut your hole before you bury the shia!!

all Shias believe Imamat would have to be present without which this world would end.

Yeah, Imamat is present, only the Imam has dissappeared.

Only yesteday this guys said that all shia believe that Ali is Allah. And now he says Allah SWT nominated Hazarat Ali AS to continue that "Cosmic Power". Do you guys get your knowledge from Marvel and DC Comics?

With followers like you, Ali and his progeny do not need enemies!!

[anajmi]

Allah SWT nominated Hazarat Ali AS to continue that "Cosmic Power",

And where is this in the Quran? Oh wait, it is not in the Quran. It is so because Jack Nicholson said it!! And who is Jack Nicholson? He is the God Particle that got separated because of Cosmic Power generated from the Particle Collider and hence has the supreme knowledge of the heavenly being of the creator with knowledge of the creation of the supernova in the 7th heaven. This is further proof that Ali is Allah.

This is precisely what shia talk sounds like!!

[anajmi]

References to Hazrat Ali(A.S.) in the Holy Qur'an
http://www.imamhussain.net/Prophet0/Pro ... Quran.html

3:61
Does not demonstrate that Ali is the shia Allah. It just demonstrates the truth of the message of Allah for which the prophet (saw) was ready to put his own family at stake.

5:55
It refers to more than 2 people. The pronouns and the pointers used are of the plural form. So it is not referring to Ali specifically but it obviously proves that are were more than 2 people who satisifed the condition of this ayah.

7:181
Same case as 5:55. It is referring to more than 2 people. So it is not referring to Ali specifically but it obviously proves that are were more than 2 people who satisifed the condition of this ayah.

I think this should suffice for now.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Hanif,

I have been following your posts which initially made me feel that you are of an unbiased mindset and hate slander and I respected you for that but recently I find you to be more biased towards shiaism and in the bargain you choose to slander the sunnis. First you chose to slander the khalifas and sahabas (which is the primary pillar of faith for shias) and now you cross the limit by questioning the very authenticity of Quran inspite of knowing that Allah (swt) has Himself promised to maintain it in its entirety in a Quranic verse.

You speak of taqwa and claim to have a high moral ground but your slander in the earlier exhaustive and lengthy post proves otherwise. I thought you to be an ardent believer of Mola Ali (a.s.) who doesnt need the support of various fictitous and distorted versions of Islamic history in order to justify your belief but sadly you turned out to be just one more run of the mill shia. The issue of khilafat has been discussed umpteen number of times on this forum hence I would not like to play the same record again and again. It seems that you have never understood the concept of khilafat as in the worldly and spiritual terms. There are a number of SHIA ahadiths which establishes the strong bond of friendship between Mola Ali (a.s.) and the other 3 khalifas and also the marriage of his daughter, Umme Kulthum (r.a.) to one of the khalifas but you choose to harp on the alleged enimity between them which is highly questionable and debateble. In this way you seem to be no better then certain fundamentalist sunnis who pick and choose ahadiths in order to prove their point.

By casting aspersions on the character of the Prophet's wives, son-in-law and father-in-law you have questioned the WISDOM of Prophet (s.a.w.) and at the same time claim to profess an unquestioning belief in him by reciting the kalima.

Before you jump the bandwagon and hurl abuses on me let me tell you that Iam a STAUNCH believer of Mola Ali (a.s.) and in my personal opinion he is the greatest personality in Islamic history after Prophet (s.a.w.) but I dont need to take shelter in distorted, fabricated and malicious literature (which is the handiwork of both sects) in order to justify my beliefs. Iam also no fan of the extremist sunni sects which distorts the true Islamic teachings for ulterior purposes. One doesnt need to identify oneself as a sunni/shia/bohra/wahabi/salafi/khoja in order to justify ones belief as our rehbars like Prophet (s.a.w.), Mola Ali (a.s.), Panjatan Pak (a.s.) NEVER claimed to be one of them.

[Hanif]

Brother Ghulam M., Your point is well taken.

I have repeatedly said that We all have to move on and not dwell on the past.

See for yourself, how people on this forum have been criticising Shia beliefs. Any belief that is presented here is said that it has a Shia spin and Shias have manufactured this and that. The famous line is "Where is it in the Qur'an, or Sunnah or ahadith"? Can't we debate intelligently? But they continue to poke fun at the Dai, Imam Jafar-as-Sadiq AS, Mola Ali, Panjatan Pak etc. They keep saying Ahle Bayt includes Prophet's wives. I can prove to them from the Qur'an it doesn't but I have kept quiet.

This is a Progressive DB forum, why do these people quote al-islam.org, or ismaili.net, or some Rajni guy, or some other Shia beliefs.

Progressives are talking about the unfairness of their establishment. So why are the topics derailed into contempt of Shia beliefs. Why don't these people go on those forums and fight them. This is the only forum they have prevailed in, the others have kicked them out for their stupidity and lack of knowledge. They are just empty heads and when cornered, they derail the subject. Their knowledge comes from Wikipedia and google. This tells me they can't read intelligent stuff.

Bohoras are very timid, and they cannot fight off these goons. They also lack knowledge and these people take advantage of this.

I tried very hard to avoid any confrontation with these people, but in the end I decided to give them the taste of their own medicine.

How come you are not asking them to stop mocking at our beliefs? Why can't we learn to respect each others belief?

They have made fun of our belief in Panjatan Pak and Mola Ali AS.

The material I presented here was not because I wanted to but I wanted to give them the taste of their own medicine. That was only the tip of iceberg. They had to be told that Asahabas were not super humans or above Mola Ali. They were humans and prone to make mistakes. They humiliated Hazarat Bibi Fatema AS. What sane person would do that to the Prophet's daughter?

As regards that Allah SWT said He would protect his Book. Was Allah SWT referring to the Book??? That is debatable too, but not with these people who have zero IQ.

You mean to say what Mola Ali had in his possession was not supposed to be in His book? Is the book complete without what Mola Ali had in his possession? And was Mowla Ali not declared Imam at Ghadir-E-Khoum? I have Sunis sources too to prove this, but these guys will go in circles. I have kept quiet.

It has become obvious that they lie, slander and create fitnah hoping we would disappear.

Enough is enough. The only way to stop them is confront them. These rascals don't know anything about Qur'an, Sunnah or ahadith. They just pick and choose what suits their agenda.

Just because you do not like the Dai, doesn't mean you should defend these fools. If you are going to reprimand me, you should do the same to them. But they would push you down.

Mike Ghouse of Dallas PPakistanis is a true Sunni Muslim. Compare him to the three stooges in this forum. If they opened their mouths on his forum they would disappear in an instant.

These people represent some kind of cult and not Sunni Islam.

[anajmi]

I can prove to them from the Qur'an it doesn't but I have kept quiet.

I am still to come across a shia who can prove everything and actually chooses to speak up. Every shia scholar I come across is exactly the same as this moron. They can prove it, but choose to keep quiet!! Well, it's a pity, cause they pretend to follow someone who spoke up and died for it. And these cowards choose to keep quiet on an anonymous forum!!

[anajmi]

As regards that Allah SWT said He would protect his Book. Was Allah SWT referring to the Book??? That is debatable too, but not with these people who have zero IQ.

Now we know why a 12-hour-fast shia will never be able to prove anything from the Quran. It is because he is not talking about the Quran that we have amongst our midst. Next time he says such and such exists in the Quran, we have to assume it is definitely not in our Quran!!

[salim]

How much more clear do you want this to be.

Allah said -
O Messenger (Muhammad [S.A.W.W]((P.B.U.H) )! Proclaim which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from People. Verily, Allah guides not the people who disbelieve.

Let's analyze the bold sentence in above ayat wihtout wearing Shia, Sunni or even a Muslim hat. This can only mean so many things

1. Allah forgot that Muhammad has already convey his message, and Allah got angry on Muhammad..Nauzbillah

2. Muhammad never received anything from Allah and he was just making it up, so he assumed that he would be revealing quran to people for many more years.. Nauzbillah

3. Muhammad did not conveyed something that Allah have asked him and Allah warned that if he is not conveying this message, it will be as if he is not the message of Allah. Very strong words for prophet of all prophets.

4. Someone edited this ayat and real ayat was something else.

Now let's analyze this part of the ayat - Allah will protect you from People.

When this ayat came to Muhammad, Muhammad was the most powerful person in entire Arabia. To this powerful person, Allah is asking him to convey a message and along with a warning Allah is also assuring him a protection against some people who may get angry.

What was that message that Allah wanted Muhammad to convey. Quran was complete. There has to be something that is very important. Soon after this ayat - Muhammad declared Ali as Imam. Some sahabas were upset and as soon as Muhammad died, they reject Ali's Imamat.

Do you it is still not clear? Muhammad was afraid of some sahabes, that they will destroy Islam, if he appoints Ali as Imam. But Allah knew that Muhammad's time to enter the heaven was coming close and Allah warned Muhammad and also assured him of protection. Because if Muhammad would have delayed this for few more months, Islam would have never been completed.

I think this is very clear. If this is not clear tell me what is another option.

[anajmi]

What was that message that Allah wanted Muhammad to convey. Quran was complete.

If Quran was complete, then this couldn' be an ayah of the Quran could it? The revelation of the Quran to the prophet (saw) was complete. But was the delivery of the message by the prophet (saw) to the Ummah complete? The wouldn't be possible at all. The prophet (saw) had to keep delivering the message of the Quran till the day he died. Simple!!

Muhammad was afraid of some sahabes, that they will destroy Islam, if he appoints Ali as Imam.

And yet, the prophet (saw) never appointed Ali as Imam. All he did was say Ali is the Maula of whomever I am the Maula. Did he say after me Ali is the Imam? No!! That is a shia interpretation of something that never happened!!

By the way, the last ayah of the Quran is 5:3 and not 5:67.

[truebohra]

What was that message that Allah wanted Muhammad to convey. Quran was complete.

If Quran was complete, then this couldn' be an ayah of the Quran could it? The revelation of the Quran to the prophet (saw) was complete. But was the delivery of the message by the prophet (saw) to the Ummah complete? The wouldn't be possible at all. The prophet (saw) had to keep delivering the message of the Quran till the day he died. Simple!!

Muhammad was afraid of some sahabes, that they will destroy Islam, if he appoints Ali as Imam.

And yet, the prophet (saw) never appointed Ali as Imam. All he did was say Ali is the Maula of whomever I am the Maula. Did he say after me Ali is the Imam? No!! That is a shia interpretation of something that never happened!!

By the way, the last ayah of the Quran is 5:3 and not 5:67.

Thanks atleast you agree that Prophet said ' Ali is maula of whoever i am maula'
What is the meaning of word Maula?
isn't maula = leader?

[anajmi]

Actually Mawla, as used by Allah in the Quran to describe himself means protector. In the arabic language, Mawla has many different meanings like master, supporter, helper, friend etc.

By the way, I am still trying to figure out how this statement became a statement of succession that after me Ali is the Imam??

[ghulam muhammed]

I found the below mentioned excerpt on a website, cant say how far it can be authenticated :-

This word is so rich in its meaning that it uses even oposites, at one end it means Master and at the other end it used for Servant, emphasizing this word only for master is not right ,Prophet (saw) used this word for other sahaba too.no body took it as a caliph

The meaning of ( Mawla ):
According to dictionary
rabb = Lord
malik = owner
mun`im = benefactor
mu'tiq = liberator
naser = helper
muheb = lover
haleef = ally
aabd = slave (for example: Zaid ibn haretha was the mawla of the prophet (
peace be upon him ))

The arabs would use the word mawlah to mean all of the above. But what did the prophet ( peace be upon him ) mean by his word? First the hadeeth has no evidences for the imamah (leadership) because if the prophet ( peace be upon him ) wanted to mean khilafah or imamah, he wouldn't have used a word that can have all these meanings. He would have
said something like: Ali is your khalifa (or imam) after me, or when I die, listen and obey to Ali ibn Abi Talib. But the prophet didn't use any of these clear words. He said: "man kuntu ...". Imam Shafi'i says that this is the walaa of Al-islam because Allah(swt) says in the Quran (Surat Muhammad,verse 11:

That is because Allah is the Protector (mawala) of those who believe, and because the unbelievers shall have no protector for them (47:11)

In the Quran (Surat Al-hadid (The Iron), verse 15), Allah (swt) says:

So today ransom shall not be accepted from you nor from those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your friend (mawlakum) and evil is the resort.

He called the hell fire "mawla" for the extreme closeness to it by the kuffar. Note also that the word mawlah is different than the word waly. The waly comes from walayah which is the leadership. Whereas mawlah comes from wilayah which is love and nusrah (help and aid). Allah (swt) says in the Quran (Surat At-tahrim ,verse 4)
So u cant find this word meaning IMAM....So it explain the HADITH...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 833AAsmkrL

[salim]

Dear Bro Ghulam Muhammad,

I agree that Mawla can mean a lot of things and many time Quran/Hadiths is not very clear. This is the reason there are so many different translations and so many different sects. If Allah wanted he would have made clear that there should have been no sects

Now one thing is for sure that since muhammad not was slave or hell, ali can't be that. As Muhammad said - Whoever accepts me as master, Ali is his master to. People excepts Muhammad as master not as slave.

[salim]

For me and most of the Shia, Mawla means Lord and Master and this ayat means, Allah asking Muhammad to appoint Ali as Imam.

O Messenger (Muhammad [S.A.W.W]((P.B.U.H) )! Proclaim which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from People. Verily, Allah guides not the people who disbelieve.

Then there is another Ayat - Sure Yasin - 12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6iIOVT-iyQ

I have my point of views on every explanation bro Anajami gave, but I am tied to limited time I have to post. Inshallah we will discus latter. I envoy those who get so much time to increase their knowledge.

[porus]

In what sense did Muhammad use the word Mawla to refer to himself in the sentence "man kuntu mawla-hu..."? The most significant meaning is that of being "defender of faith" par excellence. Why did he raise Ali's hand along with his, and not Abu Bakr's or Umar's who were both present at Ghadeer?

Why is Ahl-e-bayt, which includes Ali, described in the Quran as having been purified? Why did the Prophet say, as stated in the hadith of Thaqalayn, that he is leaving Ahl-e-bayt behind which includes Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain? Who defended Islam by sacrificing his entire family for the cause of Islam?

The answer is clear. Muhammad designated Ali the Mawla of Muslims in the same way that Muhammad was the Mawla of Muslims. Ali inherited Prophet's station and is the rightful Khalifa after the Prophet. He is the Imam in the same sense that Muhammad is the Imam, first among believers.

This happened long before the Shia concept of Imamat fully developed after the events of Karbala.

[anajmi]

Why is Ahl-e-bayt, which includes Ali, described in the Quran as purified?

Ahl-e-bayt as referred to in the Quran did not include Ali. It included only the wives of the prophet (saw) and the prophet (saw) himself. Ali was included into the ahl-e-bayt later by the prophet (saw) including his family.

This happened long before the Shia concept of Imamat fully developed after the events of Karbala.

And if karbala hadn't happened, the concept of Imamat would never have developed. The religion of Islam was completed long before the happening of Karbala.

[porus]

And if karbala hadn't happened, the concept of Imamat would never have developed. The religion of Islam was completed long before the happening of Karbala.

The concept of Imamat is already in the Quran. While the Quran was completely revealed during the lifetime of the Prophet, its elucidation continues till the present day. In that sense Islam renews itself continually.

Full elucidation of Imamat owes almost entirely to the sacrifice of Imam Husayn in Karbala. It is as if Karbala was divinely ordained just for that purpose.

[anajmi]

The concept of Imamat is already in the Quran.

I am not able to find it. Please point it out.

While the Quran was completely revealed during the lifetime of the Prophet, its elucidation continues till the present day.

That is actually contradictory to your claim that the prophet (saw) proclaimed Ali as the rightful Khalifa, because we know that he did not become the khalifa after the prophet (saw). Maybe Ali wasn't supposed to be the Imam. Maybe Imamat was supposed to be discovered only after the incident at karbala. We can continue this dance till the day of judgement.

Full elucidation of Imamat owes almost entirely to the sacrifice of Imam Husayn in Karbala. It is as if Karbala was divinely ordained just for that purpose.

That is right out of a shia vaez. Everything is divinely ordained. Shia Imamat is a by product of a fight against oppression from the minds of a few zealous followers.

[anajmi]

Imamat in the Quran. I did this search on google and found the ayahs that have been used to justify Imamat in the Quran. These interpretations have been debunked many times on this forum.

The most quoted ayah is about prophet Ibrahim.

2:124 And [remember this:] when his Sustainer tried Abraham by [His] commandments and the latter fulfilled them, He said: "Behold, I shall make thee a leader of men. "Abraham asked: "And [wilt Thou make leaders] of my offspring as well? "[God] answered: "My covenant does not embrace the evildoers."

The Imams referred to over here are the prophets that came from the progeny of Ibrahim (as). Allah clarifies elsewhere in the Quran that the prophets will be from the progeny of Ibrahim.

29:27 And [as for Abraham,] We bestowed upon him Isaac and [Isaac’s son] Jacob, and caused pro­phethood and revelation to continue among his offspring. And We vouchsafed him his reward in this world; and, verily, in the life to come [too] he shall find himself among the righteous.

This has nothing to do with the shia concept of Imamat. This ayah talks about nabis and kitabs only and not about Imams as the shia understand today.

If there is nothing more to the shia Imamat then 2:124, then I have to say that there is no concept of it in the Quran.

[Muslim First]

In what sense did Muhammad use the word Mawla to refer to himself in the sentence "man kuntu mawla-hu..."? The most significant meaning is that of being "defender of faith" par excellence. Why did he raise Ali's hand along with his, and not Abu Bakr's or Umar's who were both present at Ghadeer?

Why Prophet did not proclaim Hz Ali "defender of faith" par excellence at Macca during last Hajj in front of all the Muslims gathered there from all parts of Arebia? Why at Gadhir where only Muslims returning to Madena were present? Was there other reason for this announcement?
Mainstream Muslims (Sunni) have different take on this.
Read this
Ghadir Khumm
http://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2010/ ... dir-khumm/

If Ali and Ibn Abbas and people surroundig Prophet on his death bed knew that Ali was successor then why this conversation took place between Ali and Al Abbas? and I quote

Sirat_Ibn_Hisham Page 286
Last paragraph

Abdullah Ibn Abbas Said that on the same day Ali Ibn Talib went out to people after being with the Prophet SAW, so they asked him how the Prophet SAW was doing. “Thanks to Allah, he has recovered” he replied. Al-Abbas took him by the hand saying, “O Ali, I swear by Allah that I can tell it is death in the Prophet SAW‘s face, as I used to see in the faces of the sons of Abdul-Muttalib. So let us go to the Prophet SAW. In case that authority is to be within us, we will know it, and in case it is to be with others we will ask him to enjoin the people to treat us well,” Ali said, “By Allah, I will not do so. If it is refrained from us, the Prophet SAW none after him will give it to us.” The Prophet SAW died when the noon heat of that day increased.

[porus]

Why Prophet did not proclaim Hz Ali "defender of faith" par excellence at Macca during last Hajj in front of all the Muslims gathered there from all parts of Arebia?

He did. That is what 'Mawla' means. I just explained that.

If Ali and Ibn Abbas and people surroundig Prophet on his death bed knew that Ali was successor then why this conversation took place between Ali and Al Abbas? and I quote

Sirat_Ibn_Hisham Page 286
Last paragraph

Abdullah Ibn Abbas Said that on the same day Ali Ibn Talib went out to people after being with the Prophet SAW, so they asked him how the Prophet SAW was doing. “Thanks to Allah, he has recovered” he replied. Al-Abbas took him by the hand saying, “O Ali, I swear by Allah that I can tell it is death in the Prophet SAW‘s face, as I used to see in the faces of the sons of Abdul-Muttalib. So let us go to the Prophet SAW. In case that authority is to be within us, we will know it, and in case it is to be with others we will ask him to enjoin the people to treat us well,” Ali said, “By Allah, I will not do so. If it is refrained from us, the Prophet SAW none after him will give it to us.” The Prophet SAW died when the noon heat of that day increased.

Authority was already passed to Ali at Ghadeer al-Khum. Maybe Abdullah ibn Abbas was not there or he was not aware of it.

Ali already knew that he was the chosen authority after the Prophet. He was not about to cast doubt on Prophet's word by asking him to confirm it. Ali was well aware of the machinations of Quraysh to deprive him of the authority despite Prophet's designation. What Ali was alluding to ibn Abbas was that Abu Bakr, Umar etc would disobey Prophet after the latter's death. Ali was proven right.

[anajmi]

Actually, it couldn't be just Abu Bakr, Umar etc. They couldn't become khalifa on their own. A majority of the muslim ummah would have to disobey the prophet (saw). Besides, Ali himself disobeyed the prophet (saw) by supporting their khilafat.

[Muslim First]

by porus on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:52 pm
Muslim First wrote:Why Prophet did not proclaim Hz Ali "defender of faith" par excellence at Macca during last Hajj in front of all the Muslims gathered there from all parts of Arebia?
He did. That is what 'Mawla' means. I just explained that.

Question was why not in Mecca during farewell hajj and at Gadhir after few days.

Why It Just Doesn’t Make Sense

The Shia claim that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) completed his last Hajj, said his Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat in Mecca, and then afterwards appointed Ali (رضّى الله عنه) at Ghadir Khumm. Let us analyze this claim: Ghadir Khumm is located between Mecca and Medinah, near the city of Al-Juhfah, as mentioned by the Al-Islam.org website. It is a watering hole in the middle of the desert. The coup de grâceto the Shia argument is the fact that Ghadir Khumm is located approximately 250 km away from Mecca. This simple fact is enough to shatter the entire premise of Shi’ism.

As we all know, the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) delivered his Farewell Sermon in Mecca during his last Hajj. This was in front of the great majority of the Muslims, who had come from all of the various cities to do Hajj. If the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) wanted to appoint Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as his successor, then there is absolutely no cognizable explanation why the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not do this during his Farewell Sermon to all of the Muslims. The entire Muslim Ummah was gathered there to hear his parting words, so surely this would be the most appropriate time and opportunity to appoint a successor.

The Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) and the Muslims completed their Hajj after which everyone went back to their respective home cities. The people of Medinah went back to Medinah, the people of Taif went back to Taif, the people of Yemen went back to Yemen, the people of Kufa went back to Kufa, the people of Syria went back to Syria, and the people of Mecca stayed put in Mecca.

It was only the group that lived in cities in the North of the Arabian Peninsula that passed by Ghadir Khumm. This would consist of only those who were heading towards Medinah and the minority of Muslims that lived in places such as Syria. Therefore, when the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) stopped at Ghadir Khumm and the supposed incident happened, a great number of the Muslims were not present including those living in Mecca, Taif, Yemen, etc. After the Hajj, the Meccans stayed behind in Mecca, the people of Taif went back to Taif, the people of Kufa went back to Kufa, the people of Yemen went back to Yemen, etc. Only the group going to Medinah (or passing through/near it) accompanied the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) to Ghadir Khumm.

Therefore, contrary to the claims of the Shia, the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not appoint Ali (رضّى الله عنه) in front of all the Muslims, but rather what happened at Ghadir Khumm happened in front of just the handful of Muslims who were heading back to Medinah (or passing through/near it). Let us look at what one Shia website claims:

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Actually, it couldn't be just Abu Bakr, Umar etc. They couldn't become khalifa on their own. A majority of the muslim ummah would have to disobey the prophet (saw). Besides, Ali himself disobeyed the prophet (saw) by supporting their khilafat.

Correct. Majority disobeyed the Prophet. Ali did not support Khilafat. He tolerated it.