A Good read by Asghar Ali Engineer

[accountability]

http://dawn.com/2012/07/06/rigidity-of-ulema/

Today in Dawn karachi, an article by Asghar Ali Engineer is published. It is thought provoking. He rightly ponders on "Ulema's rigidity". Unfortunately ulema of Deoband has adopted and yet adhering to medieval interpretation, which is not only outdated, out of sense but playing havoc with believer's life.
So called ulema though enjoying all the perks that modern life style offers, forbids ordinary follower to live a decent lift. Doesn't Doband has any airconditioner, or fans, or dont they use cars and buses to travel, and use airplane to fly. But these all were non existent in early islam time. so they are not following the uswa e husna advertantly.

[Humsafar]

And we have all seen the rigidity of our own ulemas and haqiqi yoga practitioners on the issue of female circumcision.

[accountability]

rightly so.
Some days ago I was having discussion with our muallim, with my wife about fasting in ramadan. i am a bit stressed out, becuase here day begins around 4: 30 and iftar is at around 9 oclock. I asked him where in quran dictates follower to fast. he said that it is in quran, when i asked him, where, as expected he said he will get back, he does not remember ayah no. I said i could give him the ayah no,, but he flipped and said, tamne soon khabr ehne soon matlab che, asl maana tu haq na saheb jane che, apne tu farman uthava no che. finito

having said that , I have question, in quran surah baqrah verse 2:184 says

(Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew. yusuf ali

now let me post the translation without yusuf ali's addition

for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.
read the translation, god is saying if dont fast , as a ransom feed a person for the day, you may feed more if you wish. here is a real philanthropy if 300 million muslims feed 300 million more then for one month in a year there wont be any hungry muslim.
but again we are stuck with white bearded old ulema, who have read and listened to medieval interpretation without discussing or researching. they are ready to believe what is not in religion, but not ponder on real meaning.
ayah 2:185 says the same thing with a bit elobration

Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful. yusuf ali

now this is the translation without yusuf ali's addition

Ramadhan is the in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear for guidance and judgment . So every one of you who is present during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.
if you read the translation without addition, it is evident that god does not want any hardship, to complete the prescribed period, so in earlier ayah he gives guidance for that.
in no ayah, it says if "you cannot" rather it says "if you dont". so if you dont fast advertantly, you compesate it with feeding a person for the day. bravo simple and clear.
but ................................

[ghulam muhammed]

I asked him where in quran dictates follower to fast. he said that it is in quran, when i asked him, where, as expected he said he will get back, he does not remember ayah no.

You ask him the names of Dai's sons, his grandsons, his great great grandsons, his uncles grandsons, his sisters sons........and he will give you an answer immediately !!

[anajmi]

accty,

for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.

A couple of problems with your interpretation. It is quite clear from the above ayah (2:184) that the exception is for those who are ill or on a journey and not those who just don't want to do it. Second, the feeding of the misqeen is only for those who are ill or on a journey. If they can feed one that is ok but if they can feed more than one then it is better for them. The feeding is only for those who are ill or on a journey and cannot cover up later. Moving on to the next ayah 2:185

Ramadhan is the in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear for guidance and judgment . So every one of you who is present during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

So if you are at home and not sick, then you should spend it in fasting. If you cannot fast from 4:30 to 9:00 and get sick if you do, then stop doing it. But if you stop doing it because you are hungry, then you have failed your test of self restraint as specified in ayah 2:183

2:183 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-

If you choose not to fast, then you will not learn self restraint. Let us not re-interpret the Quran to suit our selves. If you are unable to understand the Quran, go to the sunnah of the prophet (saw) and see if he has allowed any exception for those who are healthy but do not want to fast because the day is long. If you find any evidence, please post it over here.

Lastly, as we have established over a few years, you are not an expert on Quranic interpretation. You should rely on others for the interpretation of the Quran. Your interpretation of the Quran has invalidated everything that has been prescribed by the prophet (saw). Your interpretation doesn't require us to pray or fast or go to Hajj or anything else. I would reject your interpretation of any ayah of the Quran without giving it a second thought.

[Fatwa Banker]

You should rely on others for the interpretation of the Quran.

Isn't that what you are doing, or have you become an Arabic scholar in the last few months ?

[anajmi]

Actually, I have become much better at Arabic in the last few months. Now stop farting and go back to sleep.

[Rabeha Solar]

actually Ali asger is not as dumb as I thought he is, finally he has realized his mistake and taken him self away from the bull shiit movement of udaipuriyas.

[Rabeha Solar]

Actually, I have become much better at Arabic in the last few months. Now stop farting and go back to sleep.

what does Alif laam mim means in quraan?

[accountability]

i did not interprate, i just posted the actual translation without yusuf ali's addition, because addition was distorting the message. how did yusuf ali know to add those things. Actually it is the problem. God is asking you to fast, but he is also saying if you dont do then do this. so he is giving you alternative, the sum of both is equal. but yusuf ali and others trangressing add something which god did not mean. why wouldn't god say, you have to fast or else face the consequences. which on numerous occassion he did. Again 2:184 says to fast if you are home and comfortable, then in the same ayah give an alternate. so why dont we take god's message as whole, and not alter and add on some one else's whim.

all these added translations and intrepretations are author's own imagination, which they try to portray as god's message, which it is not. show me in ayah 2:184, where he says if "you Cant" . he says if you dont, or feel hardship means if you are not comfortable then there is an alternative. so why the alternative as commanded by god is not as good as action itself.

[accountability]

no, feeding the poor is not for sick or travelling persons, they can make up for lost days in other days, ayah 2:185 clearly says that and reitrate ayah 2:184.
I am not at all interpreting quran, i am just using the common sense to understand it. and i want to understant it as it was sent, not with addition of yusuf ali. sunnah cannot supercede quranic commands, there are lot of sunnah which we do not practice, do you miswak your teeth or brush it. do you ride horse to travel, or use a car. do you exactly eat what prophet used to eat, or eat contemperory food. sunnah should also be practiced with understanding underlying meaning, and not just follow abdul wahab's sunnah.

[accountability]

feeding poor is option for those who dont fast and find it hard to fast, they have alternative.

[anajmi]

accty,

As I said, it is very easy to reject your interpretation of the Quran. Can you bring any evidence of your conclusion from the sunnah of the prophet (saw)? No one is interested in following the Sunnah of accountability.

Now, read the ayah again. I clarified it in what you yourself had posted. As far as "can't" and "don't" is concerned, let me re-post the ayahs. And this is exactly what you have posted

2:184

for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.

Where is your "don't"???

2:185

Ramadhan is the in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear for guidance and judgment . So every one of you who is present during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

Where is your "don't"???

I don't see a "don't" with or without Yusuf Ali's additions!!

This is what is referred to as an interpretation where you see "don't" because you want to see "don't"!!! However, you ignore the exceptions mentioned twice in the ayah. Exception is sick or travelling. Infact in both 2:184 and 2:185, the condition is to make it up later. The feeding of the hungry is just additional compensation you have to pay for not fasting in ramadan. I do not see the word "alternative" anywhere in those ayahs.

[anajmi]

no, feeding the poor is not for sick or travelling persons, they can make up for lost days in other days, ayah 2:185 clearly says that and reitrate ayah 2:184.

So you are saying that sick and travelling persons have to make up for lost days but you have been born with special privileges? You are worst than a sick and a travelling person! You should be ashamed of yourself. You do not deserve any charity from Allah!!

[anajmi]

Actually, I have become much better at Arabic in the last few months. Now stop farting and go back to sleep.

what does Alif laam mim means in quraan?

Any sabak fed moron is incapable of understanding what Alif Laam Meem means in the Quran.

[Rabeha Solar]

what does Alif laam mim means in quraan?

Any sabak fed moron is incapable of understanding what Alif Laam Meem means in the Quran.

so why dont u tell us what Alif laam mim means? these are the first 3 alphabets of Al Quraan yet billion miya bhai cant make out what exactly it is.

[Muslim First]

Shaikh Raheba Solar Bhai Saheb wrote
so why dont u tell us what Alif laam mim means? these are the first 3 alphabets of Al Quraan yet billion miya bhai cant make out what exactly it is.

Shaikh Saheb
AS

I am one of Billion Miyabhais. Br anajmi is recent convert to Miyabhaism. He was a Phony Bohra Mumin Muslim before.
I humbly request you to give me authentic meaning of "alif Lam Mim".
May Allah,Hiding Imam And Maulana-Mansoos bless you. And give you" dadam ane kela in Jannah"
Wasalaam

[Rabeha Solar]

when you forefathers awwal saani saalis failed to undersrtand quraan, how an illegitimate child of them (you) can understand it?

[Muslim First]

when you forefathers awwal saani saalis failed to undersrtand quraan, how an illegitimate child of them (you) can understand it?

Shaikh Saheb
AS
Unfortunately your Taghuts have taught you wrong and I do not think you will ever change. Awwal saani saalis were and are not forefathers of 1 Billion Mainstream Muslims. My forefathers were Indian Hindus or Persian immigrants who migrated to India with Moguls.

Unfortunately like your Bhagwan, you are also incapable of having intelligent conversation. And like your Bhagwan you are coward who is only capable of hurling insults.

Wasalaam

[anajmi]

The understanding of Alif Laam and Meem has nothing to do with the understanding of the Arabic Language. The fact that the abde idiot asked me this question when I spoke about my understanding of the Arabic Language displays the ignorance of these sabak fed morons.

[sixfeetunder]

[Shakir 2:184] For a certain number of days; but whoever among you is sick or on a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; and those who are not able to do it may effect a redemption by feeding a poor man; so whoever does good spontaneously it is better for him; and that you fast is better for you if you know.

[Pickthal 2:184] (Fast) a certain number of days; and (for) him who is sick among you, or on a journey, (the same) number of other days; and for those who can afford it there is a ransom: the feeding of a man in need - but whoso doeth good of his own accord, it is better for him: and that ye fast is better for you if ye did but know -

[Yusufali 2:184] (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.


[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:184]

Fasting is prescribed "for a certain number of days" - and as per the next verse they are the days of the month of Ramadan. The deeper benefits of fasting are gained when one is in good health. However, both in sickness and travel, these benefits are unlikely to be realised, therefore, exemption from fasting is provided, but a number of other days should be selected to fast in lieu of the obligatory fasts that have not been observed due to sickness or travel, and also a redemption (fidyah) should be effected by feeding a poor man for every missed fast. Aged people, nursing mothers and other cases in which the health is sure to be harmed by fasting can forego fasting altogether, but feed the poor instead, giving away the equivalent of one man's food daily for each fast missed.

It is better to fast as well as feed the poor to obtain a greater return from Allah. The fidyah is a concession allowed to the sick and the old but if they know the deeper benefits of fasting they must fast instead of availing the concession. The Holy Prophet and the holy Imams used to give away whatever they had in the way of Allah but in the month of Ramadan, they were more liberal and open-handed, because the month of Ramadan is the month of Allah.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Yutiquna means the ability to do something with great difficulty. The old and the sick come in this category. It is unreasonable to say that "so whoever witness this month (Ramadan) shall fast in it" (see next verse) cancels this passage. According to the holy Ahl ul Bayt this passage has not been abrogated. Tawaqa means ability with hardship, and tawa-a means ability with ease. This subtle difference was pointed out by Imam Jafar bin Muhammad al Sadiq. This passage applies to those who are able to fast but due to some weakness it is very difficult for them to do so.


[Shakir 2:185] The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.

[sixfeetunder]

Persons Exempted From Sawm:

The following persons are exempted from Sawm (fasting):

1. & 2. Old man and woman, when owing to their old age and weakness
(a) it is not possible for them to keep fast, or
(b) it is very difficult to fast.

3. A person who has got a disease in which he remains ever thirsty and
(a) it is not possible, or
(b) is very difficult, for him to keep fast.

4. The expecting-mother who is afraid
(a) about her own health or
(b) the health of the unborn child.

5. The woman who breast-feeds a child (her own or another woman's) and is afraid that the fast
(a) would endanger her health or
(b) the health of the child.

http://www.al-islam.org/fast-Rizvi/7.htm

[ghulam muhammed]

actually Ali asger is not as dumb as I thought he is, finally he has realized his mistake and taken him self away from the bull shiit movement of udaipuriyas.

So according to you, Asghar Ali has realised his mistake...Wow..... But when will your aged Dai take himself away from the greedy zaadas who force upon him numerous palkhi rounds and ziafats and use him as a marketing tool to milk the abdes high and dry thereby effecting his already fragile health ???

[accountability]

where is You cant. it says "For those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew

it says, for those who can do it is a ransom , the feeding one that is indigent. but he that will give more, of his own free will, it is better for him.

first, for those who can do it and "dont" there is a ransom, that is feeding one person for the day, in addition god is encouraging to feed more, and he says it is better if you fast.

from the above ayah, there is one simple meaning and that is keeping fast is better to thing to do, not keeping fast warrants ransom, that is feeding a person.

now this ayah cannot mean, that for those who does fast, there is a ransom for fasting. kaffara is for rozas that are missed according to every school of thought in islam. but muslim ulema are stuck with an interpretation, that is not there in quran. they dont have courage and wisdom to get out of gheto mentality.

[anajmi]

accty,

Here is what you said earlier

it says if "you cannot" rather it says "if you dont"

I asked you to show me where it says "if you don't" in the Yusuf Ali translation and you have failed to show me that. Hence what you are showing me is your interpretation and your interpretations can be easily rejected based upon your history on this forum as I have explained before.

Let me explain to you what the ayah is saying and this is in line with the interpretation of all Ulema except you and you are not an Alim and it is also the same interpretation as that of the prophet (saw).

It says, fasting is prescribed for you in the month of ramadan like it was for those before you, BUT if you are ill or on a journery during the month of ramadan then you should cover up with a similar number of days later on and also feed one hungry person per fast missed, but if you can feed more than 1 then that is better.

The ransom of feeding one hungry person is not for those who fast but those who miss their fast because they are sick or on a journey. For those that are like you and miss a fast because the day is long, there is no ransom. Only punishment, if you do not repent!!

Now, this is in agreement with all scholars. And I do not consider you to be a scholar of the Quran. So bring a scholar who can attest to your interpretation and we can discuss further.

Now here is something that will give you a heart attack. For those who miss their fasts on purpose (you are neither sick nor are you travelling), the kaffara is not one made up fast or 1 hungry person but 60 consecutive fasts or feeding of 60 persons for every fast skipped.

now this ayah cannot mean, that for those who does fast, there is a ransom for fasting. kaffara is for rozas that are missed according to every school of thought in islam. but muslim ulema are stuck with an interpretation, that is not there in quran. they dont have courage and wisdom to get out of gheto mentality.

So you consider yourself courageous for finding novel ways of skipping fasts? Let me tell you again, you are not qualified to tell us what is there in the Quran and what is not. The best you can do is made changes to other peoples interpretation and devise your own. You twisted Yusuf Alis translation to try and wiggle yourself out of the commitment of fasting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

from the above ayah, there is one simple meaning and that is keeping fast is better to thing to do, not keeping fast warrants ransom, that is feeding a person.

Allah doesn't make pointless suggestions in the Quran. If not keeping fasts, without any reason, warranted a ransom, then what was the point of mentioning those who are sick and are travelling? Do you think that a person who simply pays a warrant is better than those who are genuinely unable to fast because of sickness and travel? They have to cover their missed fasts, but a lazy person like you is allowed to get away with a ransom?

[anajmi]

Here is further explanation of 2:183 - 2:185. This will inshaallah make it clear for all those who have doubts and those who are bent on making mischief.

In 2:183 Allah says that fasting has been written (kutiba) for those who believe (Ya Ayyuhal Ladhina Aamanu) as it was written for those before you so that you may gain Taqwa (God consciousness, righteousness etc (la-allakum tattaqun)

That is the end of this ayah. This ayah makes it clear that fasting is for all those who believe so that you may gain taqwa. No exceptions are listed in this ayah or alternatives to fasting have been mentioned.

Now let us go to 2:184
The beginning of this ayah says that fasting is for a certain number of days or fixed number of days. (These days are later specified in the next ayah as the days in the month of Ramadan).

The next portion says "faman kana minkum", which means "So whoever from amongst you". From amongst whom? From amongst those who were referred to in the previous ayahs. Those who believe - and for whom fasting has been written. So whoever from amongst you is sick or travelling on other days. The first portion of the ayah specified a certain number of days and then for those who are sick or travelling during these days then fasting needs to happen on other days.

Hopefully, accty agrees till this portion of this ayah.

Then comes the next portion. It says Wa allal ladhina yutikunahu. Wa means "and". The "and" over here is for what the sick or the travelling need to do additionally and not for a third category of people. So whoever is sick or travelling needs to fast on other days AND those who can afford it should feed the hungry. Doesn't matter how hard one tries, you cannot make it to mean, "so whoever is sick or travelling should fast on other days and for those who don't want to fast and can afford it should feed one hungry person!!!!!

Fasting is prescribed during ramadan. If you cannot fast during ramadan, then you need to fast on other days and also pay a kaffara. Just fasting on other days doesn't cover the fasting of ramadan because fasting is written for you in ramadan.

[profastian]

Let me explain to you what the ayah is saying and this is in line with the interpretation of all Ulema except you and you are not an Alim and it is also the same interpretation as that of the prophet (saw).

Which Ulema? So wahabis do have some religious leaders whom they follow. who?

[mnoorani]

Prodastian.You have sinned.
You know Anajmi is not paak Bohra,If you reply to him than you will face Mola's wrath. If you have forgotten What happened in Udaipur then see the link for your self,How dare you go against our Mola.
Many thanks to Rabeha ,he has pasted a link and on that link there are many such videos such as the following.
This should be a warning to all those who are against Mola.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmgV4JiX ... re=related

[anajmi]

Don't know about wahhabis but I have come across many knowledgeable people who have more knowledge about the Quran than your Syedna and his entire mob combined!! Heck, some people on this very board have more knowledge than your Syedna, excluding all abde idiots like yourself.

[accountability]

During last week, I did some research, I talk to 4 ulemas of different mosques all sunni one. Imams ofIMO, a very big mosque in toronto, Juma congregation exceeds 2000, Afghani mosque, islamic society of north america mosque, and Shiekh Dr. Saeed, he is principal of islamic school, also a Phd in islamic history from al azhar. they all agreed with me, that for any reason you "dont" fast, you have to feed one person for a day (they said 2 times). Even in sunnah and hadith there is no compulsion for fasting. I asked Sh: Saeed if there is any hadith regarding compulsory fasting, all hadiths are suggestive in nature.
Morever according to quran and hadith it is not punishable sin, but it is better to fast or in lieu feed one person. I talked in detail about 2:184 and 2:185, which says that if you are sick and travelling, you "can" (not should) make up for the lost days in next year. but if you dont then Jazia (they called it jazia) for lost roza is wajib.

I also talked to one jamia teacher, he also agreed. and he is right, because before every ramadan, there is a handout to pay jazia of lost days before ramadan. I just got an email, and i sent them the cheque for last years lost days.

Yet I dont understand, why are ulema silent and remain conspicous about elobrating it. why muslims are not given due options, according to quran. I think it is cultural delimna and taboos, i have read this ayah many times, but i never truly tried to understand it, but i was doing research, i came to know the options. God very clearly says, think, acquire knowledge and on that basis admit into iman.

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