Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

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Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#31

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:27 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:Prove first that your dai is haq na saheb

That is irrelevant, so don't divert the question. Plus, You are asking the wrong question.
It goes according to the individual.

First you must accept the practice that There Should be a Haq na Saheb, and only HE can collect the Zakat. If you don't agree with this, then there's no point going further. (The other sects don't follow this) (THIS is the Fatimi Belief in accordance to the Quran). This is mentioned in the books the Proggies claim to follow.

Syedna is OUR Haq Na Saheb, and will give Zakaat to him. The "others" must have a Haq na Saheb, whoever it may be, and give it to him. The Question is: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

P.S - You're not a Proggy, so this question isn't for you. Don't worry about it.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#32

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:41 am

But proggys believe him to be Nahaq na saheb

MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#33

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:11 am

ALERT ALERT ALERT
TOPIC DIVERSION TOPIC DIVERSION


ALERT ALERT ALERT
CAUTION A VIRUS (FITNATI) HAS BEEN DETECTED IN A TOPIC

anajmi
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#34

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:16 am

The Quran and FATIMI DAWOODI BOHRA TEXTS (which the Proggies claim to follow), doesn't allow this. There must be a Leader (Haq na Saheb) who collects the Zakaat, just like the Prophet and Imams did.
Can you please quote the ayah where the Quran has prohibited the distribution of the zakat to the needy?

Thanks in advance for not being able to do that.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:16 am

Good. Since there was no response, I can assume that our abde brother wasn't able to find the ayah that he said existed in the Quran.

Now, let me post another ayah of the Quran which makes the books of the Fatimid Daawat inconsequential, redundant, not required, not needed, can be discarded.

2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance;
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come! -

AH HA!!! Those who have taqwa are the ones who believe in that which has been bestowed upon the prophet (saw) as well as in that which was bestowed before the time of the prophet (saw). Anything that comes after the time of the prophet (saw), like the Fatimid Daawat Books, are of no relevance to Islam!!

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Anajmi

#36

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:31 pm

Anajmi has a an amazing talent of being an egotistic, psychopathic imbecile :)
Some of his famous traits are, derailing topics, talking when not spoken to & total stupidity.
I create this thread dedicated to him, so that when he derails OTHER topics, he maybe answered here, thus protecting other topics from diverting. Keeping the other topics more mature, and for "humans" & intellectuals ;)
I hope this will come to use, has MANY people including Abdes, Proggies, Shias, Sunnis, Porus(s) are aware of his tactics and are tired of it.
Last edited by Adam on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#37

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:33 pm

Anajmi, once again you try to divert the topic, and in the process have proved you are an idiot to the core.
Please visit the thread which I have dedicated to you, I will answer you there:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 933#p99933

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#38

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:36 pm

Aliabbas - You aren't a Proggy you wouldn't have the slightest idea what they believe and don't believe.

P.S: No, they do not accept Syedna as their Haq na Saheb (they insult him).
No, they do not give Zakat to Syedna.

Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Anajmi

#39

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:47 pm

From: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 934#p99934
@Anajmi
Can you please quote the ayah where the Quran has prohibited the distribution of the zakat to the needy?

You've said it wrong.
The Quran doesn't "prohibited the distribution of the zakat to the needy".
Allah orders the Prophet to take the Zakat from the people. The people must give the Zakat to their leader (who ever it maybe).
[9:103]
"Take alms (Zakat) of their wealth, wherewith thou mayst purify them and mayst make them grow,"

This in order will be distributed by the Prophet (leader) to the 8 Categories mentioned in 9:60.

Thus, according to the Quran and in its light, Fatimi texts (which the Proggies claim to follow), you cannot distribute the Zakat on your own:
1. There must be a leader
2. You must only give Zakat to him
3. He will distribute it
4. You cannot give it to the poor on your own.


@Anajmi
AH HA!!! Those who have taqwa are the ones who believe in that which has been bestowed upon the prophet (saw) as well as in that which was bestowed before the time of the prophet (saw). Anything that comes after the time of the prophet (saw), like the Fatimid Daawat Books, are of no relevance to Islam!!


What an idiotic statement.
You've just included all and/or 99.99% of the books ever written by Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Wahabi (you're friends) on Islam.

Someone please put a leash around him ;)


سلاما

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Anajmi

#40

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:52 pm

No one has objected to Br anajmi, , he is mature enough to counter your completely partisan and egoistic posts.His posts are really out of the box and have a wisdom behind it which shows his sharp intelligence.
You can check out the likes list on top , here Anajmi ranks second with number of likes mouting to 451 among 2000+members.
So people like his posts and you are the one who comes up with very trivial posts.
e.g your zakat post is very trivial , the reply has been given yet you bother to strech the issue just to show you presence.
Fear ALLAH swt for writing such abusing remarks for anajmi who has chosen true pure Islam going against the luxurious bohra religion.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#41

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:13 pm

Adam, it is you who is an idiot. I answered your question but you still keep repeating it. I know you and the other Kothar's useful idiots are fresh from your Haqiqi Yoga boot camp, and are all gung-ho from sujood practice and thigh-kissing marathon, but please take a hold of yourself. By raising a non-issue (like the other one, how will you recongise your Imam) you think you bent-over-backwards abdes will undermine the reform movement. It is really funny, and pathetic at the same time, that you Kothar's useful idiots do not want to understand what reform movement is all about: Here we're talking about transparency and accountability, and there, like some deranged lunatics you want to know why we don't we give our zakat to the same people from whom we are demanding transparency and accountability. This situation is analogues to the mafia hit-men asking robbed and frightened people why don't they give their money to the Boss?
All your "Haq na saheb" routine is not going to fool anyone. You can quote all the authentic Fatimid books you want, the fact remains that in all of Fatimid history there has never been a Dai and his nizam which as corrupt, immoral, profligate, evil, ruthless and degenerate as that of your current masters. And like all the lakeer-ke-fakeer pig-headed idiots you insist on following the letter of the doctrine and not the spirit. For you giving the zakat to haq na saheb is more important than what actually zakat is meant for and who should ultimately benefit from it. Reformists follow the spirit and principle of that prescription and not it's modality. Because we are aware that when the true Imam, the Prophet and Allah ask us, "how did you spend your zakat", and we'll say we gave it to the people who were deserving of it. And when they ask you abdes about it, you will say "we gave it to our haq na saheb", and when they ask you "what did he do with it", and you will say "we don't know"? On hearing this they will kick your collective abde butt and banish you to hell for not using your moronic pathetic little heads.
So you abde idiots are welcome to give your zakat to theives, we will give it to the poor and needy, thank you. For us "Haq na Saheb" is actually "Shaq na Saheb".

MurtazaVds
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:59 am

Re: Anajmi

#42

Unread post by MurtazaVds » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:21 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:No one has objected to Br anajmi, , he is mature enough to counter your completely partisan and egoistic posts
Chor Chor mausere bhai :mrgreen:
aliabbas_aa wrote: You can check out the likes list on top , here Anajmi ranks second with number of likes mouting to 451 among 2000+members.
So people like his posts.
likes my foot.... Ok you mean to say anajmi has 451 likes so we all going to praise him
aliabbas_aa wrote: e.g your zakat post is very trivial.
Your mentality/thinking is trivial Mr. Fitnati
aliabbas_aa wrote: Fear ALLAH swt for writing such abusing remarks for anajmi who has chosen true pure Islam going against the luxurious bohra religion.
Wait untill the day of judgement until then lick the likes of anajmi

anajmi
Posts: 13402
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#43

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:34 pm

Now look at the contradiction in Adam's posts. Here is what he said before
The Quran and FATIMI DAWOODI BOHRA TEXTS (which the Proggies claim to follow), doesn't allow this.
It is pretty clear that Adam is saying here that the Quran doesn't allow giving of zakat to the needy.

Then he says elsewhere
The Quran doesn't "prohibited the distribution of the zakat to the needy".
Oh Oh!! Adam BS (the smelly BS and not the corrupt BS) has put his foot in his mouth. He couldn't find any ayah of the Quran that "doesn't allow this".
What an idiotic statement.
You've just included all and/or 99.99% of the books ever written by Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Wahabi (you're friends) on Islam.
Actually, that is not my statement, it is an ayah of the Quran. Now you are calling ayahs of the Quran idiotic. Such a shame!!

The Faatimid Daawat books can be discarded because they are against the Quran as I have proven above. Any book that goes against the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) can be thrown away. And that would include a lot of books written by Sunni, Shia, Sufi's and Wahhabis!!

As far as 9:103 is concerned, as has been clarified earlier that Allah specified 8 categories of people that can receive your zakat. One of those is the category to which the prophet (saw) belongs. Infact, if you look at those 9:103 you will see what the prophet (saw) is required to do with the zakat. This means that the Quran actually prohibits (by not including them in the categories) the giving of zakat to those who eat your zakat themselves and live a life of luxury for themselves and their families. It would be haraam to give zakat to the Dai as per the Quran.

Thank you very much.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#44

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:04 pm

This in order will be distributed by the Prophet (leader) to the 8 Categories mentioned in 9:60.
One of the categories included in the 8 categories is those who collect zakat which includes the prophet (saw) himself. Does it make any sense for the prophet (saw) to distribute the zakat to himself? Of course, this makes perfect sense for the Dai. He distributes the zakat that abde idiots give him only to one category out of those 8. Care to take a guess which one??

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#45

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:10 pm

Adam wrote:This in order will be distributed by the Prophet (leader) to the 8 Categories mentioned in 9:60.
Bro Adam,

Although it is mentioned that ONLY the "Prophet (s.a.w.)" can distribute zakat but you have added "Leader" in brackets out of your own will but then too is it permissible to give it to the leader even if he fails to distribute it to the 8 Categories as mentioned in 9:60 ?

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#46

Unread post by Adam » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 pm

I made a special post for Anajmi, so that he doesn't divert the topics. The thread was named "Anajmi". I answered there
Admin has been at it again (or Admin=Anajmi). And deleted that thread, and posted it here. Reasons are to divert the topic because Proggies just can't answer!!
P.S, I even gave a nice example of Anajmi in that, Admin didn't have the decency to copy my ENTIRE message.

Someones very scared I believe :)

Here let me do it again
I will answer here:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=7491

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#47

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:23 pm

You can answer there, but I will be responding over here. It is like that song - kahin pe nigahen kahin pe nishana.

That is pretty much how the world of abde idiots turns!!

bohri
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Adam the follower

#48

Unread post by bohri » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:25 pm

Adam wrote:From: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 934#p99934
......

Thus, according to the Quran and in its light, Fatimi texts (which the Proggies claim to follow), you cannot distribute the Zakat on your own:
1. There must be a leader
2. You must only give Zakat to him
3. He will distribute it
4. You cannot give it to the poor on your own.



سلاما
Adam - Stop wasting time here! Please return to the kothari daycare centre, form a circle with your fellow Abdes and continue reciting your rhymes - here's a suggestion:

If you're a follower and you know it
Bend backwards, X2
If you're a follower and you know it and you really want to show it,
IF you're a follower and you know it
Bend backwards,

If you're a follower and you know it,
Kiss his feet X2
If you're a follower and you know it and you really want to show it,
IF you're a follower and you know it
Kiss his feet.

If you're a follower and you know it,
Give Fat Salaams X2
If you're a follower and you know it and you really want to show it,
IF you're a follower and you know it
Give Fat Salaams

If you're a follower and you know it,
Take some slaps X2
If you're a follower and you know it and you really want to show it,
If you're a follower and you know it
Take some slaps

If you're a follower and you know it,
say "THANK YOU!" X2
If you're a follower and you know it and you really want to show it,
If you're a follower and you know it
say "THANK YOU!"

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#49

Unread post by porus » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:52 pm

anajmi wrote:Good. Since there was no response, I can assume that our abde brother wasn't able to find the ayah that he said existed in the Quran.

Now, let me post another ayah of the Quran which makes the books of the Fatimid Daawat inconsequential, redundant, not required, not needed, can be discarded.

2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance;
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come! -

AH HA!!! Those who have taqwa are the ones who believe in that which has been bestowed upon the prophet (saw) as well as in that which was bestowed before the time of the prophet (saw). Anything that comes after the time of the prophet (saw), like the Fatimid Daawat Books, are of no relevance to Islam!!
Daim ul Islam is not a revelation. It outlines specific interpretation of the Quran by Qadi Noman, who supposedly wrote the Daim with the approval of Fatimid Imams. Adam claims that Dawoodi Bohras follow it to the letter. I am not so sure about it.

According to Daim, zakaat must be paid to the Imam who alone has the God-given wisdom and capability to distribute it to those who fall into the eight categories mentioned in the Quran. Since the Dai represents the Imam, then it follows that the zakaat should be paid to the Dai.

Are there circumstances in which Zakaat can be withheld from the Dai? Let us consider these:

1. Dai is not the Imam and Dai does not have the God-given wisdom of the Imam despite the revised claims to the contrary of the Bohra Orthodoxy.

2. Traditionally, Zakaat has been calculated in accordance with the Shariat which has been established over a long period of time. Amounts of zakaat due can be calculated with precision with the rules which are also specified in Daimul Islam. In the experience of all Bohras that I know, zakaat is lumped under Waajibaat, which includes only two Quranic obligations, zakaat and zakaat al-fitr. A third component is 'sila' for Imam which is specific to Bohras. The rest of the wajibaats are not obligations but considered as such. These are gifts for the Dai and his Mansoos and contributions for various community schemes.

3.Bohras generally do not know how much zakaat is being taken. They negotiate a lump sum. Thus, there is no record of how much zakaat is collected.

4. Daim makes a specific point that no portion of zakaat can be distributed to the Imam or any member of his family. One of the reasons that Daim gives for this is that Imam then becomes above suspicion of having misappropriated the Zakkat funds for his own purpose. One specific condition is that Imam cannot appoint any member of his family to be the collector of Zakaat. Many Aamils are from the family of the Dai and despite the injunction of the Daim they are charged for collecting it.

5. Daim quotes an instance when Ali ibn Abi Talib sent gold (offered as zakaat) to the Prophet and, quite transparently, Prophet distributed it among those he considered deserving of it. We know it was transparent because some objected to Prophet saying that they were more deserving of the Zakaat funds. Prophet put their minds to rest by a convincing argument.

If the Dai wants to emulate the Imam, then he should make sure that every Bohra makes a proper calculation of Zakaat so that zakaat can be known by all and just as Prophet transparently distributed it, the Dai should do the same. This means Zakaat should not be lumped with Waajibaat as an unknown quantity. He should also appoint zakaat collectors in places where Aamils are from his family avoiding Zakaat collection by these Aamils.

Thus, proper calculation and transparency in distribution of Zakaat is a requirement of the Quran and has so been interpreted by the Daimul Islam. Dai should be above suspicion in this matter. Secrecy invites suspicion. Why is there a secrecy when it has all been specified by Allah and His messenger?

If Zakaat collection and distribution is not done transparently in accordance with Islam and Daimul Islam, a good case can be made for withholding Zakaat from the Dai. In absence any other authority, everybody can find at least oneof eight categories (according to the Quran) of those who deserve your Zakaat. That category is that of those who are poor and needy and of those who have been afflicted by natural disasters and may need to get back on their feet again.

Humsafar has given appropriate answer to Adam who is simply resurrecting a variation of his hackneyed question, "Who is your leader?", "What are your beliefs?" etc.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:15 pm

Daim ul Islam is not a revelation. It outlines specific interpretation of the Quran by Qadi Noman, who supposedly wrote the Daim with the approval of Fatimid Imams. Adam claims that Dawoodi Bohras follow it to the letter. I am not so sure about it.
Can I choose to reject Qadi Noman's interpretation of the Quran and still be a muslim/mumim/muhsin? Can a bohra reject it and still be a bohra/muslim/mumin/muhsin? This is a rhetorical question. As per the ayahs of the Quran that I have quoted, I can choose to reject any interpretation of the Quran in favor of another interpretation of the Quran and still be a muslim/mumin/muhsin. However, a bohra cannot reject the Daim ul Islam and remain a bohra/muslim/mumin/muhsin. This is where the ayahs that I have quoted apply.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#51

Unread post by Hanif » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:29 pm

humanbeing wrote:few more queries.

Was Prophet Muhammad (saw) accountable to its people for monies collected in Zakat ?
Was Imam Ali (saw) accountable to its people for monies collected in Zakaat ?
No, No. to both your questions. The reason is simple. When the Prophet SAW and Hazarat Ali AS collected Zakah money, people saw how the money was spent on the 8 categories of people. So there were no questions raised. Prophet SAW and Hazarat Ali AS worked hard and ate very simple food. We have repeatedly heard in the bayans that Mola Ali ate Juwar ni roti which he dipped in water to soften it. Prophet's household did not have enough food during Ramadhan. Hazarat Ayesh RA said sometimes they ate Khajur and drank water and went to bed during the month of Ramadhan, unless somebody brought them food. Both the Prophet SAW and Mola Ali AS were poor people.

In one of the ahadith it was stated that when Mola Ali went to collect the Zakah, he stood outside the city gate (so as to not humilate the people) and asked his people to collect the zakah but not force people. Just to collect whatever people could give. Some people did not have the money so they gave cattle, grain, etc. There was no force.

In the absence of the Prophet, it is the right of Ahle Bayt to collect the zakah, i.e. the Imam of the time. If the Imam is in seclusion then it is debatable.


The bohora argue that the Ulil Amr has the right to collect the zakah and the Ulil Amr is the Dai. I would not have a problem with that provided the Dai and his family worked hard the way the Prophet and his progeny worked hard. Because the zakah is being collected by them to spend the way Allah SWT has designated and not on themselves.

Show me where the zakah money is spent, and I will have no problem paying up. In the Prophet's time and Hazarat Ali AS time people saw where the money was being spent. Even during Fatimid Imams time people saw where the money was being spent, so nobody questioned.

Then I would like to give what I think should be my zakah. No Sheikh or Amil has the right to tell me what I should pay. Even Mola Ali AS did not do so. Neither did the Fatimid Imams.. I set aside money for the zakah as soon as I get paid and send it to my favorite charity which provides to me full accountability at my request.. I do not wait until Ramadhan. I have been so doing since I started working.

Zakah is not only 2.5%. There are different percentages for different assets.

In Ihya Ulum-id-din, Al Ghazzali specifies: Crops: On 20 mounds of crops zakat of one-tenth of the crop is compulsory.

Zakat on silver is one-fortieth

Then there is zakat on merchandise, zakat on mines and buried treasures and finally the zakat of Idul Fitr.

I think all Muslims pay along the above lines.

Zakah should be given while you are alive because nobody is going to pay on your behalf if you die between the two Ramadhans!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#52

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:05 pm

Actually, if you paid your zakat the last ramadan and if you die before the next ramadan, your account is clear.

SBM
Posts: 6243
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#53

Unread post by SBM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:00 pm

Adam wrote:Aliabbas - You aren't a Proggy you wouldn't have the slightest idea what they believe and don't believe.

P.S: No, they do not accept Syedna as their Haq na Saheb (they insult him).
No, they do not give Zakat to Syedna.

Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?
Bawa Adam
Why do you care who progressive or for that matter any sensible Muslim give their Zakats to?
For Non Abdes it is very clear ,they give their Zakat to poor Muslims
For Abdes they have to give their Zakat to Syedna

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#54

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:05 am

porus wrote:
anajmi wrote:Good. Since there was no response, I can assume that our abde brother wasn't able to find the ayah that he said existed in the Quran.

Now, let me post another ayah of the Quran which makes the books of the Fatimid Daawat inconsequential, redundant, not required, not needed, can be discarded.

2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance;
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come! -

AH HA!!! Those who have taqwa are the ones who believe in that which has been bestowed upon the prophet (saw) as well as in that which was bestowed before the time of the prophet (saw). Anything that comes after the time of the prophet (saw), like the Fatimid Daawat Books, are of no relevance to Islam!!
Daim ul Islam is not a revelation. It outlines specific interpretation of the Quran by Qadi Noman, who supposedly wrote the Daim with the approval of Fatimid Imams. Adam claims that Dawoodi Bohras follow it to the letter. I am not so sure about it.

According to Daim, zakaat must be paid to the Imam who alone has the God-given wisdom and capability to distribute it to those who fall into the eight categories mentioned in the Quran. Since the Dai represents the Imam, then it follows that the zakaat should be paid to the Dai.

Are there circumstances in which Zakaat can be withheld from the Dai? Let us consider these:

1. Dai is not the Imam and Dai does not have the God-given wisdom of the Imam despite the revised claims to the contrary of the Bohra Orthodoxy.

2. Traditionally, Zakaat has been calculated in accordance with the Shariat which has been established over a long period of time. Amounts of zakaat due can be calculated with precision with the rules which are also specified in Daimul Islam. In the experience of all Bohras that I know, zakaat is lumped under Waajibaat, which includes only two Quranic obligations, zakaat and zakaat al-fitr. A third component is 'sila' for Imam which is specific to Bohras. The rest of the wajibaats are not obligations but considered as such. These are gifts for the Dai and his Mansoos and contributions for various community schemes.

3.Bohras generally do not know how much zakaat is being taken. They negotiate a lump sum. Thus, there is no record of how much zakaat is collected.

4. Daim makes a specific point that no portion of zakaat can be distributed to the Imam or any member of his family. One of the reasons that Daim gives for this is that Imam then becomes above suspicion of having misappropriated the Zakkat funds for his own purpose. One specific condition is that Imam cannot appoint any member of his family to be the collector of Zakaat. Many Aamils are from the family of the Dai and despite the injunction of the Daim they are charged for collecting it.

5. Daim quotes an instance when Ali ibn Abi Talib sent gold (offered as zakaat) to the Prophet and, quite transparently, Prophet distributed it among those he considered deserving of it. We know it was transparent because some objected to Prophet saying that they were more deserving of the Zakaat funds. Prophet put their minds to rest by a convincing argument.

If the Dai wants to emulate the Imam, then he should make sure that every Bohra makes a proper calculation of Zakaat so that zakaat can be known by all and just as Prophet transparently distributed it, the Dai should do the same. This means Zakaat should not be lumped with Waajibaat as an unknown quantity. He should also appoint zakaat collectors in places where Aamils are from his family avoiding Zakaat collection by these Aamils.

Thus, proper calculation and transparency in distribution of Zakaat is a requirement of the Quran and has so been interpreted by the Daimul Islam. Dai should be above suspicion in this matter. Secrecy invites suspicion. Why is there a secrecy when it has all been specified by Allah and His messenger?

If Zakaat collection and distribution is not done transparently in accordance with Islam and Daimul Islam, a good case can be made for withholding Zakaat from the Dai. In absence any other authority, everybody can find at least oneof eight categories (according to the Quran) of those who deserve your Zakaat. That category is that of those who are poor and needy and of those who have been afflicted by natural disasters and may need to get back on their feet again.

Humsafar has given appropriate answer to Adam who is simply resurrecting a variation of his hackneyed question, "Who is your leader?", "What are your beliefs?" etc.
Thanks porus bhai ,I have two query regarding zakat.Today our vaezin told us about khumus that you should pay khumus 20% of your profit.Means if you get 1000rs. daily profit you should pay 200rs. as khumus..Is it true as per daim?
Second they are collecting zakat from student of madrasa & msb not less then 52rs. per student from lower kg to 10std. .When i asked to mullasaheb how a student not earn anything valid for zakat then he answered me that they should pay zakat as zakatul ilm.Is there any sentence in daim that zakat should pay for have a ilm?Please clarify

anajmi
Posts: 13402
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#55

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:35 am

Pretty soon abde idiots who get some ilm on this board will have to pay zakat ul ilmil progressivi.

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#56

Unread post by Maqbool » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:43 am

Zakat!! There is no such word in Dawoodi Bohra belief.

I am a ecard holder dawoodi bohra and about 15-20 years before I use to pay Zakat to Sayedna or his representative. Now in new testament in bohra belief it is vajebat. This word is not mentioned any were in Quran or Daim. (The change of word I see purely a guilty conscious)

As per new testament of Dawoodi Bohra I am paying vajebat to Sayedna or his rep. (keeping minimum by bargaining). I pay zakat to the poor as described by Quran.

In my opinion the progressives are paying their zakats as per Quran as mentioned by Humsafar. And they are not paying vajebat, since the core rule of dawoodi Bohra is changed and not goes with quran teaching. the progressive are not believing in this new testament.

One of my friend is paying vajebat more then 50 lacks in a year. This all money he offers in cash that is in black. Dear Adam can you share your opinion on this.

According to my friend's belief if he gives vajebat in return he gets 70 times. The friend is paying same amount since last 2 to 3 years. Why it has not been increased by 70 times? My friend has no answer to this. Adam do you have?

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#57

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:05 am

Dear Readers.
Do not be misled by the posts of Porus or others. Remember We are Dawoodi BOHRAS.We do not believe in ZakaT! We only believe in Mola and his MAnsoos. Mola does not mention zakaat. He mentions wajebaat.Because Zakaat is for poor and wajebaat is for mola. Our Mola is a rich mola. His childern are called shahzaadas and shaahzaadis. This is our own royal family. All our money is for this Mola alone so we have to pay wajebaat and all the huubs that the jammat asks us for. We should not be bothered about the Poor bohras of Mumbra or Dharavi or Ahmedabad. This is Molas wish. He will give to only a few select people .All dawoodi Bohras do not qualify to receive help from Mola.
We do not beleive in Daim. We should consider the Daim an outdated book just like we have considered the Quraan. Our Mola is Bolta Quraan and Haqiqi Kaaba. So everything is just falsehood. So let the poor get more poorer oherwise we will have little to give to our Mola. Remember ,we have to pay for the upkeep of saify Mahal and the gold taps, the once a week business class travel to and from USA / India for his shaahzaada (check Malumaat). Remember only pay to MOla as he has 1000 dependants with him at Saify Mahal.
Mola is our Bolta Quran and we believe in him,not in the book that Allah sent us. And Mola is the Haqiqi Kaaba not the one in Makka where we turn for namaaz. Vey soon we will pray namaaz in the direction of Mola because he is Haqiqi Kaaba.
Last edited by mnoorani on Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#58

Unread post by Adam » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:23 am

Thank you Porus for writing a long essay and not answering the simple question that the thread asks. Everyone has their own opinion.
If you didn't know the answer, all you could have said is: I don't know/don't care (because i'm not a Proggy).

@Humsafar:
Reformists are free to give their zakat according to their free will as the Quran prescribes. Some in Udaipur choose to give it to the Jamat which then distributes it to the poor and needy.

This shows that there is confusion between the Proggies when it comes to Zakat. They don't follow a united path, and BOTH these chosen ways are against Fatimi/DB texts and practices.

Summarising Fatimi/DB practice of Zakat. (Which they claim to follow).
1. There must be a leader to collect the Zakat in every age.
2. Only He can take the Zakat.
3. He will distribute it amoungst the 8 categories
4. Zakat given directly to anyone by not giving it to the leader is NOT acceptable, and is considered not giving Zakat.
(Sources - Daim ul Islam & Kitab al Himmah)

Concluding:
Proggies don't give their Zakat in accordance to Fatimi/DB beliefs.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#59

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:36 am

You ADAM!
Why are you bothered about something that we do not beleive in. Remember Mola does not use the word Zakaat, For us it is only WAJEBAAT. We do not beleive in Zakaat because Mola is our Bolta Quran and he says wajebaat.
Our Wajebaat is for the upkeep of our MOLA. IT IS NOT FOR THE UPKEEP OF THE FOLLOWERS OF MOLA.
Remember we gain more sawaab if our money is used for the purchase of a luxury car by the shahzaada of Saify Mahal then to buy a meal for a poor Dawoodi Bohra.
FATEMI DAI ZINDABAD
GHAREEB VOHRA MURDABAD!

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#60

Unread post by Adam » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:51 am

@mnoorani
Why are you bothered about something that we do not beleive in.


You may not believe in Zakat, but the Dawoodi Bohras do.
And the Proggies claim to follow Dawoodi Bohra texts, but it's very obvious that they do not practice it.

Summarising Fatimi/DB practice of Zakat. (Which they claim to follow).
1. There must be a leader to collect the Zakat in every age.
2. Only He can take the Zakat.
3. He will distribute it amoungst the 8 categories
4. Zakat given directly to anyone by not giving it to the leader is NOT acceptable, and is considered not giving Zakat.
(Sources - Daim ul Islam & Kitab al Himmah)

Concluding:
Proggies don't give their Zakat in accordance to Fatimi/DB beliefs.