Qasr Namaz and its rules

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asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Qasr Namaz and its rules

#1

Unread post by asad » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:16 am

Salaam and Ramdan mubarak to all,

Can some one point out the rule of Fiqh for Namaaz and roza while traveling. Both Bohra fiqh and general Islamic fiqh will be welcome. instead of puting URL's please try to answer the specific questions.

1) what is the travel limit
2) Time boundations
3) In today's world many people travel long distance daily for their Job or business, how does the rule apply to them.
4) Qasr Namaz is a gift from Allah to the musafir but if the person travels daily then does this rule applies.
5) A person who is offering qasr namaz due to his travel will not be able to do roza, whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara.
6) For the whole year he will travel, so cant repeat the missed rozas. So is the qaffara only solution.

someone
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:32 pm

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#2

Unread post by someone » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:37 am

asad wrote:Salaam and Ramdan mubarak to all,

Can some one point out the rule of Fiqh for Namaaz and roza while traveling. Both Bohra fiqh and general Islamic fiqh will be welcome. instead of puting URL's please try to answer the specific questions.

1) what is the travel limit
2) Time boundations
3) In today's world many people travel long distance daily for their Job or business, how does the rule apply to them.
4) Qasr Namaz is a gift from Allah to the musafir but if the person travels daily then does this rule applies.
5) A person who is offering qasr namaz due to his travel will not be able to do roza, whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara.
6) For the whole year he will travel, so cant repeat the missed rozas. So is the qaffara only solution.
The following is my understanding only:

1) what is the travel limit
12 miles, city boundary to city boundary. That is once you leave your city, the destination city's border must be within 12 miles. In some cases, you may enter the destination city limit and exit and re-enter (going through highway, etc.). In this case its the distance from where you originally left your city and the final time you enter the destination city limit.
2) Time boundations
Depends on whether you own or rent your place of residence. There are different rules that apply, e.g. leaving after zohr / asr, praying 5 times salat upon return, 10 day niyat, etc.
3) In today's world many people travel long distance daily for their Job or business, how does the rule apply to them.
Though inconvenient, rules are the same.
4) Qasr Namaz is a gift from Allah to the musafir but if the person travels daily then does this rule applies.
If you are a musafir, then yes rule applies.
5) A person who is offering qasr namaz due to his travel will not be able to do roza, whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara.
Again depends on the situation. Do you own or rent. When do you leave the city limit to go to your destination and when do you come back.
6) For the whole year he will travel, so cant repeat the missed rozas. So is the qaffara only solution.
There are days that you don't travel, e.g. weekends or days off. So roza can be made up then or you can do qaffara if roza not possible.

These are the rules to my understanding. Do the best you can.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#3

Unread post by asad » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:55 am

Thanks Someone,
whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara.
More detailed answers from other members are welcome

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#4

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:59 am

When does a journey count as travelling [safar, i.e., a journey which allows the traveller dispensations regarding prayers such as shortening and combining prayers, etc.]?

Praise be to Allaah.

Some of the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) think that travelling is defined by a distance between 81 and 83 km or more. Some think that travelling is defined by ‘urf (local custom), so that whatever is customarily regarded as travelling is travelling, even if it is to a place that is close, and whatever is not regarded as travelling – i.e. it is not called travelling – is not travelling. This was the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him), and it is more correct from the point of view of the evidence (daleel), but it is difficult to apply, because one person may regard a trip as travelling whilst another does not. The definition based on distance is more precise and is clearer to people. If it is agreed that a trip counts as travelling based on both distance and ‘urf, there is no need for debate. If there is a difference between distance and ‘urf, then a person should act in accordance whatever is on the safe side.

I’laam al-Musaafireen bi Ba’d Aadaab wa Ahkaam al-Safar wa maa yakhuss al-Mallaaheen al-Jawwiyyeen by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, p. 5


for more specific answers to above questions visit:
http://islamqa.info/en/cat/438

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#5

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:04 am

A detailed ruling of prayers of a traveller can be found out at.

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=2513 ... 8&pid=2250

asad
Posts: 777
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#6

Unread post by asad » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:29 am

Sistani says pray full
The seventh condition is that travelling should not be his profession, that is, one who has no other work but travelling; or that travelling is the means of his subsistence, like the camel riders, drivers, herdsmen and sailors. Such people will pray full, even if they travel for their personal work, like transporting their own household effects, or transporting their families. Those who live at one place and work at another, commuting every day, or every other day, like students or businessmen etc., fall in this category.
and IslamQA says he has to pray qasr

What does Bohra fiqh says??

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#7

Unread post by porus » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:01 pm

Qasar namaaz rules for Bohras according to Saheefatus Salaat:

1. If you are travelling so that the return distance from your home exceeds 24 miles, qasar namaaz applies.

2. If you intend to stay at your destination (exceeding 12 miles from home) more than 10 days, you must offer complete namaaz.

3. If you stay with your 'mohramdaar' at your destination longer than the duration requiring you to offer five faraz namaaz, and they offer complete namaaz, you must also offer complete namaaz. [This means that only if you are going to be with them for less than a day, then you must offer qasar namaaz].

4. If you go to a habitual place of work or a place of 'you own' which is beyond 12 miles, you must offer complete namaaz.

asad
Posts: 777
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#8

Unread post by asad » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:51 am

porus wrote: 4. If you go to a habitual place of work or a place of 'you own' which is beyond 12 miles, you must offer complete namaaz.
Thanks Porus,

What happens when a person goes to work beyond 12 miles and he dosent own the place he is traveling to. I have talked to few aamils and they were all unanimous on that person should offer qasr namaaz. My point is that its very normal for a person to travel beyond 12 miles out of city in today's fast paced transports available so how far this rule is feasible and practical of offering qasr namaz and not doing roza.

One more thing which i have asked earlier

A person who is offering qasr namaz due to his travel beyond 12 miles because of job will not be able to do roza, whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara. And For the whole year he will travel, so he cant repeat the missed rozas. So is the qaffara only solution.

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#9

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:26 am

Again, among Bohras it is customary to offer Qasr Namaz if you travel beyond certain distance what I do not understand that we are ready to skimp
on our FARD namaz for Allah but then we do 2 Rakat for Syedna. if the hardship is there should not that 2 Rakat for Syedna should be skipped and not the FARD for Allah.
Many DB have found a good excuse of not fasting by saying there Salah is Qasr and just pay Kuffara which is so miniscule, $ 1.00 for McDonald or Rs 25 for a burger which is a meal a good deal to play with Islam and Allah's flexibility on his Ummah for hardship :cry:

porus
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#10

Unread post by porus » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:43 am

asad wrote:
porus wrote: 4. If you go to a habitual place of work or a place of 'you own' which is beyond 12 miles, you must offer complete namaaz.
Thanks Porus,

What happens when a person goes to work beyond 12 miles and he dosent own the place he is traveling to. I have talked to few aamils and they were all unanimous on that person should offer qasr namaaz. My point is that its very normal for a person to travel beyond 12 miles out of city in today's fast paced transports available so how far this rule is feasible and practical of offering qasr namaz and not doing roza.

One more thing which i have asked earlier

A person who is offering qasr namaz due to his travel beyond 12 miles because of job will not be able to do roza, whats the ruling for ramzan, he will do roza and pay qaffara or will not do any roza and pay qaffara. And For the whole year he will travel, so he cant repeat the missed rozas. So is the qaffara only solution.
The rule is very clear. If a return trip to your habitual place of work, even the one you do not own, exceeds 24 miles, you are required to offer complete namaaz. And you must keep your roza too. That takes care of modern transport question.

However, I do not understand the reason for qasr namaaz. I have heard 3 explanations:

1. It is a Sunnah.
2. It is a gift from God.
3. It is to to lessen the time in times of travel. It is a dispensation from God.

As far as 3 is concerned, we are talking about fard only. If a person travels, he may not offer sunnah or nafl because of lack of time and may shorten fard. However, I have seen Bohras sitting out the last 2 rakaats during Imamat namaaz and offer all other prayers too. This just does not make any sense as no time is saved in this practice.

As far as 1 and 2 are concerned, I simply do not know and I am a bit skeptical about them.

Aymelek
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#11

Unread post by Aymelek » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:08 am

My 2 cents...

I believe Qasr namaz and skipping of fasts for travellers is an exemption granted by Allah. So if a person chooses to not take the exemption it is completely ok and hence his fast and prayers would still be valid even if he is travelling.

Take for example, 2:184 & 2:185 states that an ill person or travelling person is exempted for fasting. Now if I am ill (say have a fever) and out of love for Allah, I choose to fast, my fast will be considered valid therefore the same goes for a traveller.

aqs
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#12

Unread post by aqs » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:48 am

porus wrote:
The rule is very clear. If a return trip to your habitual place of work, even the one you do not own, exceeds 24 miles, you are required to offer complete namaaz. And you must keep your roza too. That takes care of modern transport question.
Porus,

Please ignore my naivete and explain it a bit more.

Because If a perosn travels every day more than 24 Km then he will offer qasr namaz as per the rule of Bohra fiqh.

aqs
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#13

Unread post by aqs » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:50 am

Aymelek wrote:My 2 cents...

I believe Qasr namaz and skipping of fasts for travellers is an exemption granted by Allah. So if a person chooses to not take the exemption it is completely ok and hence his fast and prayers would still be valid even if he is travelling.

Take for example, 2:184 & 2:185 states that an ill person or travelling person is exempted for fasting. Now if I am ill (say have a fever) and out of love for Allah, I choose to fast, my fast will be considered valid therefore the same goes for a traveller.

Aymelek,

as per bohras Qasr namaz is a gift from Allah to traveler, and if he offers full prayer then its deemed that he rejected the gift so he is suppose to offer full namaz again. Therefore the rule for sick and traveler cant be clubbed together.

porus
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#14

Unread post by porus » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:55 am

aqs,

Like I said, I do not know the reason for qasr namaaz. However, I will accept your explanation that 'it is a gift from God'. In that case, it cannot be explained as a dispensation in order to save time.

I re-read the Saheefa and this is what it states.

Qasr applies only to fard of Zuhr, Asr and Ishaa.
porus wrote: 4. If you go to a habitual place of work or a place of 'you own' which is beyond 12 miles, you must offer complete namaaz.
Rule 4 above is as stated in the Saheefa
porus wrote: If a return trip to your habitual place of work, even the one you do not own, exceeds 24 miles, you are required to offer complete namaaz. And you must keep your roza too. That takes care of modern transport question.
This last quote is incorrect. Only if you 'own the place of work', you must offer complete namaaz. Otherwise, you are required to offer qasr namaaz. The phrase in red above must be removed.

And, as you state, if you offer complete namaaz in error in these circumstances, you must re-offer qasr namaaz.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#15

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:21 am

Br porus
How was 12 miles limit obtained? Are there Ahadith supporting this?
Was 12 mile travel by horse or camel?

I can travel 12 miles to another suburb in 15 minutes to friends house, in that case should I offer kadar

I found this interesting.

Islam the Glorious religion
ABOUT THE PRAYER OF TRAVELLER
http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Books/GLIS/pot.htm

Of course it is sunni interpretation. Please drop it if it evolves in Sunni Bohra debate.
Wasalaam

porus
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#16

Unread post by porus » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:57 am

Muslim First wrote:Br porus
How was 12 miles limit obtained? Are there Ahadith supporting this?
Was 12 mile travel by horse or camel?

I can travel 12 miles to another suburb in 15 minutes to friends house, in that case should I offer kadar
I have no idea how the limit of 12 miles was obtained. It does not matter how fast you can cover the 12 miles. Even if a Bohra traveled at warp speed and covered the 12 miles in 1 millionth of a second, qasr namaaz would apply.

The rules are those that Bohras follow. The issue is not sufficiently important for us to spend further time on it.

Muslim First
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Re: Qasr Namaz and its rules

#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:45 pm

porus Posts: 3246
The rules are those that Bohras follow. The issue is not sufficiently important for us to spend further time on it.
Agreed
JAK