violating our culture and traditions

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

violating our culture and traditions

#1

Unread post by think » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:38 pm

on top of the wajebaats extra money around $600 are collected by every mumineen family in the southern u.s. for niaz during all 30 days. niaz everyday at markaz or masjid was not a norm. i remember a time when i went to pray at the masjid and break fast after magrib faraz with tea as was usual in karachi but then came home after namaj and the whole family sat down for food cooked at home. Only during washek nights there was jaman given by some seth and his name was announced and there was some sweet also in the thal for fateha for one of his loved ones who had passed away. this is no longer there. every thing is moula. the mumineen are demanded money for the thirty day niaz and it is announced "moula na taraf si niaz che".
These false statements need to be corrected and let credit go where it is due.
stop charging mumineen for niaz for thirty days. have niaz only on washek nights from the funds collected by way of wajebaats. If some rich person wants to do niaz on washek then do not ask him for money and then announce "niaz is from moula.
I would still like to have my iftari at home with my family instead of having it at markaz.
family traditions should be revived. Moula is not my father or mother. This brainwashing should stop. everything is not moula. Parents are more than moula.

Humsafar
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#2

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:24 pm

I agree with your comment, and what you are saying goes to the root of the problem of what this Burhani cult is doing. Slowly over the years it has been destroying the space where the individual, the personal and the family played a role and had a meaningful, private interaction. Instead everything now is on a mass level, the whole community is involved and events are orchestrated from one central command and all jamats all over the world follow the same template during all major religious and Kothar invented functions. And of course Maula is the central focus while Islam, the Prophet and Ahe Bayt are peripheral, if at all.
The level of uniformity that Bohras have fallen into is incredible. This is typical of a cult - gather people together, make them dress and behave in the same manner to reinforce herd mentality. The more they conform and more often they do so the better it is. Welcome to the McDonaldisatin of Bohras. There's as much spark of individuality left in them as there is nutrition in a Mcdonalds burger.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#3

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:48 pm

All this was started by YN, he preached and taught all Jamea students that Maola is every thing and individual is nothing, this is like a communist thinking where State is everything and individual is nothing. Then the jamea students graduated and spread this kind of thinking all over the world and now Maola overshadows every breath we take. All good things are attributed to him regardless of who pays, also we are not given time to do khatam ul qurans for our dead parents, relatives or children because they ask us to read so many qurans for maola and give hadiyah to him and this is in addition to the 3 days of intensive khatmul quran in the masajids for Maola and the daily quran daor that is dedicated to Maola. People are getting tired of this Maola, Maola business and one of these days somewhere there is going to be a revolt against all this nonsense.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#4

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Kaka Akela wrote:People are getting tired of this Maola, Maola business and one of these days somewhere there is going to be a revolt against all this nonsense.
They are more tired of this MORE-LA, MORE-LA business !

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:59 pm

think wrote:on top of the wajebaats extra money around $600 are collected by every mumineen family in the southern u.s. for niaz during all 30 days.
Bro think,

This doesnt ring a bell as loud as it should (especially for Indian abdes) as long as you dont spell out in Indian terms...... i.e. it should read as "Rs.33,000/- for Ramzan Niyaz collected from every family in southern US". (One dollar = Rs.55 approaximately)

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#6

Unread post by think » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:01 pm

Thank you Mr. Gulam -e- Mohammed. Hoping the wrong will be made right. If some rich person is doing niaz for the community then he deserves the recognition. He is spending the big bucks to feed the jamaat but the announcement is "moula na taraf si niaz che"

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#7

Unread post by pheonix » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:50 pm

think wrote:Thank you Mr. Gulam -e- Mohammed. Hoping the wrong will be made right. If some rich person is doing niaz for the community then he deserves the recognition. He is spending the big bucks to feed the jamaat but the announcement is "moula na taraf si niaz che"
Well all I can say is that you are an idiot. I am sure the progressives will agree

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#8

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:28 pm

Amil will try to get all the receipts for the purchase of food (grocery store). His story is that he wants to make sure all the raw materials were purchased from Halal stores. The real reason behind this is that can show expenses for their ill gotten loot.

As far as jaman from Moula, I will believe it when I see him work an honest days labor. He should earn like every Tom,Dick and Harry. It goes for all Chamchas and Zada's. Its Haram nu Jaman. The moneies was collected for the poor and destitute.

Haram ni kamaie produces stupid kids. Dont believe me , just talk to their children.

Safiuddin
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:01 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#9

Unread post by Safiuddin » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:14 pm

I would still like to have my iftari at home with my family instead of having it at markaz.
family traditions should be revived. Moula is not my father or mother. This brainwashing should stop. everything is not moula. Parents are more than moula.
If that's the case, why not just do so? WHY drag yourself to
the Bohri masjid where you commit shirk and pray salaat to Burhanuddin?
WHY give your hard earned money to shameless and badtameez liars?
Is it so hard for people to stay away from this cult?
I walked away from these naapak people many years ago.
In the US you have the luxury of freedom of behavior - and freedom from religion.
Why not take advantage of it?

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#10

Unread post by mnoorani » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:09 am

Even during Muharram ,only the last three days were observed and people did their work and business regularly.
There was no jaman everyday.Now it is not a tamasha but a 10 day picnic!

Humsafar
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#11

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:53 am

mnoorani wrote:Even during Muharram ,only the last three days were observed and people did their work and business regularly.
There was no jaman everyday.Now it is not a tamasha but a 10 day picnic!
Also, each city had their own majlises which had their unique character and local flavour. Now Maula's vaez is relayed via satellite, and everyone worships the TV screen. The medium indeed is the message - McLuhan would be pleased to know that his theorization after all has found such concrete expression.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#12

Unread post by think » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:08 am

go to markaz or masjid and participate. It is your birth right as a bohri. But if you see a wrong being done, stand up and fight for your rights. do not be meek and helpless. this gives them more power. If you stand up for what is right things can happen. you do not have to be under the knife of the kothar gestapo.
It is your culture and traditions and religion is islam. so fight if you have to. Ask for accountability of your money. they may not reply but ask anyway. It brings them shame.
fifty two dai's have been leaders of the bohri community , some good and some bad and there have been branching out like the avi bohras with their own syedna. When I was growing up we referred to the religious leader, the dai as bawasaheb or bare mullasaheb. and that is exactly what it is. He is no where near your "aka moula" He is niether your aka nor your moula. Look up the meanings of these words and it will throw light on your ignorance.stop treating a religious leader as your worldly king.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#13

Unread post by Hanif » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:11 pm

think wrote:Thank you Mr. Gulam -e- Mohammed. Hoping the wrong will be made right. If some rich person is doing niaz for the community then he deserves the recognition. He is spending the big bucks to feed the jamaat but the announcement is "moula na taraf si niaz che"
LOL. They lie to the Mumins too???? Are you sure they mean Mola and not Mulla as in dollars? This is hillarious. As long as there are people like accountability, Ozmujaad, etc. this funfare is here to stay. Bohoras know nothing about religion and are dependent on these leaders and follow the religion blindly.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#14

Unread post by think » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:25 pm

yes the kothari is scared and controls with an iron fist and to that end lying to mumeneen is just a very small part at the lengths the kothar would go to break you.
If you wanted to build a mosque or a school in remembrance of your mother or father that is a big no no. you can build it with your own money in remembrance of your loved one but no where in the mosque would be the name of your mother or loved one. it would be moula ne masjid and he will have to wakaf it. so much so is the hatred for any one's name to be recognized other than moula that the whole hyderi built by valika in remembrance of their mother for the poor bohris had a small marble plate in her recognition. the whole marble plate was torn down.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#15

Unread post by juzerali » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:44 am

I remember on the day of eid when I used to have dinner at home, how desolate it felt. After sharing dinner with friends for 30 days, this sudden loss of social contact does have an emotional impact. Therefore Bohras look forward for Ramadan, more for social matters than religious ones. This kind of creates an emotional dependency on such congregations and feasts. That is one of the things that gives Jamaat/Dai/Kothar etc so much power. A mumin cannot fathom the idea of living without attending majalises and jamans. His complete identity will be lost. They will go to any extent to preserve this.

My own example will be pertinent on this matter. This year, in our city, people didn't show much enthusiasm to sponsor niaz. It seemed like we cannot have niaz for 30 days. Jamaat went to the extent of visiting, along with Aamil Sahab, seemingly `rich` bohras and persuading them to do niaz. If someone said that they cannot afford it, they heard this plead for Aamil Sahab, "Moula nu jaman chhe, ema thodi qurbani aapwi pade. Aap niyat karo, saglu thai jaase". They even assure people for giving Qardan-Hasana in lieu of sponsoring niyaz. This is a form of indirect interest (byaaj). Much of dawoodi-bohra faith is much dependent upon blind-faith and superstition than reality. An abde doesn't have much choice when he hears such arguments. If he still says no, he will risk being considered as one who doesn't have faith in Moula.

In a desperate attempt to make an impact, Syedi Ali Qadar bhai Sahab, the heir to da'i's throne has launched another publicity stunt. In many cities now evening food is sent at every mumin's house by local Jamaat. An amount is collected by every family and still it is referred to as "Moula nu jaman". Not to mention that the food is as unhealthy as served in "Jamaat Khana". This is breach of an individual's privacy at highest level. He cannot even make a choice about what he wants to eat for dinner (Abdes who are gonna attack me on this saying that you can always opt out- there is a stigma associated with it, not to mention guilt for a pious abde). Now a mumin cannot even pass a day without consciously or sub-consciously realizing that his life is so much affected (read to him as dependent) on aqa moula.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#16

Unread post by think » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:29 pm

you see juzerali, the dai or bawasaheb is not your aka nor is he your moula.he is maybe your religious leader but in no way controls your soul or your body. and neither he is your king of this world.
such is the brainwashing of these kothari goons.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#17

Unread post by pheonix » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:17 am

Hanif wrote:
think wrote:Thank you Mr. Gulam -e- Mohammed. Hoping the wrong will be made right. If some rich person is doing niaz for the community then he deserves the recognition. He is spending the big bucks to feed the jamaat but the announcement is "moula na taraf si niaz che"
LOL. They lie to the Mumins too???? Are you sure they mean Mola and not Mulla as in dollars? This is hillarious. As long as there are people like accountability, Ozmujaad, etc. this funfare is here to stay. Bohoras know nothing about religion and are dependent on these leaders and follow the religion blindly.
Hmm, and the Aga khanis are the most knowledgeable community in religious matters.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:35 pm

An earlier post which was probably by Mr.Insaf :-

Declining I.Q. of Dawoodi Bohras

The Dawoodi Bohras were once proud of their intellectual heritage. In every city and town there were Dawoodi Bohra literary igneous, writers, poets and journalists writing in Gujarati, Urdu and English languages. Even Bohra women were not left behind. They used to compose gazals, poems, nohas, marsiyas, salams and quasidas and recite in mehfils. In 19th and begining of 20th century several dailies and monthlies like Bauge-Momin (Khan bhai Amiji), Gulzare-Hakimi (Hasan Ali Gulzar), Gulistane-Daudi (Ali Akbar Alamdar), Munsif (Abbas Aurangabadi), Aage-Kadam (Ahmed Ali Adamji Jivaji), Salahkar (Yusuf Surti), Vohra Hirdey (Abdul Qadar), Duatul-Akrameen (seth Ismailji, Vohra Samachar (Nooruddin Kapadia), Manzil (Hatim Chirag), Vatan (Saif Palanpuri), Tamanna (Qutub Azad), Dawoodi Bohra Bulletin (Husaini Sanchawala), Gulshane-Dawoodi (Jileesgar) etc. had become popular and a Bohra household item. Names of Badri Kanchwala, Shamsheer Godhervi and Ameen Azad's papers are not in my memory. This community had produced a Gujarati poet like Abdul Husain Mareez who was honoured by a title of “Gujarat-no-Galib” and internationally famous painter like “Tayyeb Mehta”.

But because of clergy's domination on social and intellectual lives of Bohras since Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb's time, there is taking place a sharp and dangerous decline in 'intelligence quotient of Dawoodi Bohras.

In last 100 years every aspect of Dawoodi Bohra Community has changed, moral, values, belief, behavior, family and Jamat life, relationship, appearance, dress, communication.

The coming generations of Dawoodi Bohras would not even know how bright and intelligent this community once was. As the trend continues, they would see only dull, timid, terrorized, selfish, bootlicking and show off baboon Bohras around them. Like brainless puppets they would be dancing to the tunes of their selfish masters. They would say and do what their masters would like them to say and do.

As history books are seized and destroyed they would not know that their Dais prior to 51st Dai, Syedna Taher Saifuddin, lived a simple and exemplary life. They lived like Hazrat Ali ibne Abi Talib. They remained poor and indebted. They were quite benevolent towards the Community and generally did not extort any money from the community and whatever voluntary contributions were offered to them they spent on the welfare of the community. Earlier Dais restricted their authority to the religious affairs only and never interfered with the worldly secular affairs of the Bohras. Their time was mostly spent in worship of Allah, imparting religious knowledge to their followers and writing books for the guidance of future generations.

Though Intelligence is inborn and gifted, but it can be increased by problem-solving, discovering, creativity techniques, deep thinking, learning from past experience, practice, improve memory, attention, concentration, reasoning, social skills, decision making and planning.

Then there are men with Super-brain who can perform/ process complicated tasks in a relatively faster speed.

High Intelligence Society usually refers to a community where people with higher I.Q/ geniuses meet and exchange their ideas for the benefit of humanity and encourage the uses of intelligence.

History shows that the Dawoodi Bohras in 18th and 19th centuries were quite educated, (there was a class of ulemas, learned persons), honest, fearless, intelligent, hardworking, enterprising, benevolent and of independent thinking.

So were their Dais who lived a simple and exemplary life, like Hazrat Ali, who remained poor and indebted and quite benevolent and caring towards the Community. Dawoodi Bohras too centered around them as they were their guide, protector and well-wisher, mostly spending their time in worship of Allah and imparting religious knowledge to their followers.

However in the beginning of 20th century in 1915 Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb became Dai who was very intelligent, ambitious and materialistic. He very cleverly terrorized and enslaved the community and started dominating it. Right from the beginning he started building his Financial Empire by all means without caring whether they were legal or illegal, moral or immoral. He started certain practices in the community which were unheard in Islam and in Dawoodi Bohra history. 'Salam-bandh, Jamat Kharij, Abde-Syedna, Sajda to Dai, Tasleemat, NKD, MKD, Huzure-Aala, Sultan, Shahzada, Shahzadi, Darbar, Raza, Mafi (apology) etc. The list is very long. Thus he changed the whole character of the Dawate-Hadiyah and of the community and turned the Dawat in to Sultanate making it his own family's domination, controlling all religious, social and private lives of Bohras.

The Dawoodi Bohras were excluded from any decision making process. They were banned from asking any question regarding community and Jamat affairs. The ulema-class was eliminated replacing them by often ignorant black-marketeers by making them Mullas and Shaikhs depending on how much lakhs or crores of rupees they could offer.

Ever since Dawoodi Bohras are kept busy in arranging welcome parties for Sultan and his shahzadas and Amils, the birthday celebrations, Moharram sermons in far away places with hi tech recordings and relays, meetings with politicians and corporate kings, in Burhani Expos, Band-competitions, Rasme-Saifee, kadambosi, Jamans, matam, Ziyarat tours etc.

Any philanthropy, like establishing school/college, hospital, scholarship trust, building mosque, musafirkhana if a Dawoodi Bohra wishes to do he/she has to do it in Syedna's name and control.

Today a Dawoodi Bohra is not allowed to think, do any creative writings, ask accounts and plan his life independently.

Bohra men and women were famous for their cooking. Food plays an integral part of Bohra's daily life. Apart from the detectable and distinctive cooking style, there are certain traditional ways in which food is prepared and served. Bohra women’s creativity can be seen in variety of Bohra dishes like Sodanna, Malida,lacchka, Kalamro,kheema khichdi, Laganya seekh, mutton kari chawal, Sarki, Dal Chawal Palidu, Kefti dal, Patwalya, Hariso, halem, dabba gosht etc. Now even that creative talent has been eliminated by providing mass-manufactured meals to Bohra houses from common Jamat kitchens. Bohras meals were so tastee that even late Syedna Taher Saifuddin tried to monopolise it by spreading a concept that Bohra foods are so tastee and unique as they are cooked by Raza of Sayedna.

Thus because of clergy's domination on social and intellectual lives of Bohras there is a sharp and dangerous decline in 'intelligence quotient of Dawoodi Bohras.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#19

Unread post by Hanif » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:08 pm

pheonix wrote:
Hanif wrote: LOL. They lie to the Mumins too???? Are you sure they mean Mola and not Mulla as in dollars? This is hillarious. As long as there are people like accountability, Ozmujaad, etc. this funfare is here to stay. Bohoras know nothing about religion and are dependent on these leaders and follow the religion blindly.
Hmm, and the Aga khanis are the most knowledgeable community in religious matters.

Aga Khanis are no better than the bohoras either. Stick to the topic. Aga Khanis are not here to defend themselves. If you want to challenge them, go to their site and get their address from MF.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#20

Unread post by pheonix » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:27 am

Hanif wrote:
pheonix wrote: Hmm, and the Aga khanis are the most knowledgeable community in religious matters.

Aga Khanis are no better than the bohoras either. Stick to the topic. Aga Khanis are not here to defend themselves. If you want to challenge them, go to their site and get their address from MF.
Really, I thought you were one of them.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#21

Unread post by Hanif » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm

Phoenix says:
Really, I thought you were one of them.
I have been called a bahai, nuseri, twelver, Aga Khani and even an Abde. The most insulting of them all was being called an Abde.

At least the Aga Khanis are making an effort to educate their people by opening an Institue of Ismaili Studies, promoting Ismaili studies in Harvard, (whether Aga Khanis learn or not) where a lot of bohora students go to learn about Ismailism too. I am told Abbas Hamdani was a Professor at IIS.

Likes of Poonawalla, Zahid Ali, etc. have contributed to the studies too. Hamdani, Poonawalla and Zahid Ali have contributed their manuscripts for research to IIS so they can show the world the Bohora heritage.

What has Syedna done? He tried to get all these manuscripts so he can sit on them and keep the community ignorant of their faith and enslave them.

Currently IIS is working on translating the work of Dai Imad Al-din which is in five volumes and I cannot wait to see it. Another work that came out recently and is not yet available is the work of the fifth Yemeni Dai, who confronted Ghazzali about Ismaili doctrines.

Now did you know this all?

I read a lot of Paul E. Walker's stuff. Why? Because most of his translations come from the former Bohoras and of course the Dai's two nieces.

So now, ask the Saifee Mahal to stop the harrassment of the Bohoras and educate them about the Bohora faith by opening an institute with all the money they collect during Ramadan, Ziyafats , at birth, death, weddings, etc. before the community dwindles to nothingness.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: violating our culture and traditions

#22

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
think wrote:on top of the wajebaats extra money around $600 are collected by every mumineen family in the southern u.s. for niaz during all 30 days.
Bro think,

This doesnt ring a bell as loud as it should (especially for Indian abdes) as long as you dont spell out in Indian terms...... i.e. it should read as "Rs.33,000/- for Ramzan Niyaz collected from every family in southern US". (One dollar = Rs.55 approaximately)

Same here in oz every family must do a niaz in a year otherwise their wajebat and sabeel is not accepted. The rate here per niaz is $1400 per day , and extra for salaam and raza and only during ramazan they allow 2 families to join. Au$1=Rs57 so one can look at Rs80,000 or minimum rs 40000