Rebel or perish or have we already perished

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#1

Unread post by asad » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:36 am

We have become a cribbing lot, we whimper, we cry but never fight back. I will not go into the details of our meek behavior but different people have different reason. What are the reasons that another Udaipur was not created, how have we lost our individuality and become a herd of sheeps. Again we all are aware of the problems.

Now what is the solution or the way ahead to regain our dignity. Keep in mind the adversary is powerful, extremely rich, very well connected and in total control of the situation. How to fight against them. Solution can be simple if we can implement. What does kothar loves most, its money, our hard earned money. You stop the flow, you stop Kothar. All its power and connection will start vanishing once you stop the flow.

I think Progressives are already doing these but its just a refresher for other like minded.

Few suggestions:
1) people in USA and UK: Contact IRS and inform the channels money is siphoned off.
2) People in Gulf countries: talk to Awkaf and inform how they are collecting money for Zakat. In maximum Gulf countries private organisation cant collect Zakat money, every thing should be either distributed by individuals or hand over to Awkaf, And Awkaf dosent like competion. Inform ministries how people are being compelled to pay. Send some mailers form Jamat translated in English or Arabic to Ministries.
3) People in Pakistan, Lanka and India: Bargain, negotiate as much as you can, make a group of like minded individuals and deny any raise in payment, instead cut it by half every year. In a city if many people tell aamil they cant pay as much as he asks he cant throw every one out.

And foremost before you start your rebellion first convince your Wife, She'll be the one person who will break your resolve before you even step out of your house.

In the end remember Kothar is alive on our fear, The day you stop dancing on their tune you will realize its very easy to manage them.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#2

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:25 am

Way to go.. Asad.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#3

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:08 pm

The below mentioned article appeared on the forum some time back and its probably penned by Mr.Asghar Ali Engineer:-

Some of the components of Corruption, as for as Dawoodi Bohra Community is concerned, are
1) unquestioned authority with absolute power
2) non-accountability
3) no transparency
4) chain of middle men
5) arm-twisting
6) bribery and finally
7) apathy of Bohras

The Dawoodi Bohra religious establishment has made taxes and donation mandatory, even the religious and spiritual head of the community openly ask for donations. We, Bohras are not aware and those who are aware are too scared to stand up for our rights; we would suffer in status quo rather than standing up for our rights, the famous alibi 'Apne shooN karye, badhaj aywa che' …..That is why there is a rampant poverty in a community of filthy rich businessmen who together organize "Burhani Expo" every now and then.

Our religious establishment is only concerned with self-enrichment and wealth accumulation. Because they know that, no crime is too serious or big before money. One can even purchase the law and influence the judgment. Again wealth is not the only motivation for corruption. Power is frequently a great motivator, and the administration pursues power at all cost regardless of who gets hurt. When money is able to buy people's consciences, corruption begins. Money is power. Corruption starts from the establishment because it can be manipulated.

Those who raise their voice against corruption are either sidelined with or forced to leave the community. This accelerates the growth of corruption and corruption breeds corruption. Most of the Bohras waiting to get their children married or bury their dead have taken corruption as part and parcel of the Dawat system. They don't have hatred or ill feeling towards corrupt Jamaat members or Aamils. They think that without it, we cannot survive and sustain in this community. Corruption continues unchecked in our so-called religious administration because the people remain helpless victims or passive observers of the process. "Apne shooN karvoo chhe".

Today the Bohra religious establishment is one among the most corrupt religious establishments, thanks to the ever growing greed of every one from top to bottom in Daiz-Zaman's family and Saifee-Burhani administration. With the introduction and forceful collection of excessive taxes and frequent hi-tech tamashas of Dai's self-glory and most important refusing to account for frequent huge collections.

I am sorry to say, Syedna Saheb himself is responsible for growing corruption in his family and his administration.
In order to become richest men from a pauper and to build his financial empire our late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb deliberately introduced the corruption in the Dawat system. He first became an Absolute Power in himself by claiming Dai-ul-Mutlaq. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” He went to the extent of calling himself "Elahul-Ard" (God on earth) that too in court of law. He altered the text of Misaq (oath of allegiance) to become superior to Allah (even Allah cannot pardon a breaker of misaq unless Dai pardons him and he takes misaq again.)

He claimed that he was not accountable to any one and he was above the laws of land. Those Bohras who dared to ask him account were severely punished. When in 1950 charity laws were made applicable he coined a word "Sole-Trustee". He also claimed that he is religious and temporal head of the community and started taking all decisions regarding the Bohra community's religious as well social and secular affairs and introduced "Raza" (permission) for all acts including burial. He had fixed a fee for "Raza" of every affair.

He then took over all local Jamats and introduced a central governing body "Al-Wazarut-Saifia" and Aamils were put under control of this body thus introducing a chain of middle-men. Now no follower can reach to Dai without going through this chain. This gave way to arm-twisting and bribery. All these components of corruption were thus installed by late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. He was an intelligent and well-read man. He was aware of Fatemid history, necessity of hierarchical system, power and importance of authority, secret working etc. He also knew that people in general and Dawoodi Bohras in particular show very strict adherence to their faith and belief. They are very sensitive towards religion and religious leaders.

He knew that:
The Ismaili mission was started with a political aim to establish an unbiased and just political rule against the repressive rules of Umayyad and Abbasid regimes. Ismaili Imams did establish what is known as Fatemi Empire in small part of Arab, Iraq and North Africa and that too for a short period (297 to 567 Hijri).

In my very personal opinion the political purpose of Ismaili d'awa, the close-knit organization, the secret functioning of organization, absolute loyalty to Imam all ended with the establishment of Fatemid Empire or at the most with the fall of Fatemid Empire. Fatemid rule ended with its downfall. And two months or six month-old 21st Imam was sent into seclusion. Since last 900 years there is no trace of any Imam from progeny of last seen 21st Imam. Dawoodi Bohras believe that one of the successors of Imam is somewhere secretly guiding the destinies of the faithful and he is in communication with the Dai of the time. But according to late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb's statement in the Burhanpur Dargah Case (1925) Imam's existence is imaginary and it is just a part of Dawoodi Bohra faith.

Now just imagine after such a long and painful struggle when the empire fell suddenly, it must have shaken the faithful. So to pacify them and sustain them with the hope of Imam's return and re-establishing the Fatemid Empire a chain of Dai must have started. (This is not in any way an effort to belittle the highly intellectual pursuit of Ismaili Imams and Ismaili thinkers.)

The d'awa was shifted to India to safeguard it. The Dawat system was devised for the guidance of Mumineen in religious matters, to facilitate rites of burial, marriage, prayers etc. Since it was physically not possible for Mumineen all over to reach the Dai, the system of appointing Amils and Maullims by the local Jamaat was introduced to help local Mumineen in performing their day to day religious rites.

Except in the initial period most of the Bohra Dais had spent their life in protecting the followers and the actual mission of 'd'awat-e-hadiyah of calling or inviting people to Ismaili faith had ended long back. The hope of re-establishing Fatemid Empire had receded gradually, and then forgotten. Hence the posts of Hujjati-Laili, Hujjati-Nahari, Dai al-du'at, Bab al-abwab and Dail-Balag had already become redundant and now the posts of Dail-Mutlaq, Mazoon and Mukasir have also lost their significance.

I am sure the present so-called Bohra religious establishment very well realizes this status and hence it is making use of the followers' blind faith, enforcing it with worldly glory of the Dai and his fake miracles to enhance the Dai's family business. Finally I like to say that first we should acknowledge that there is corruption in our religious establishment and then unless there is an active intervention of the individual Bohras in all cases of corruption the greater purity cannot be introduced in the dawat's administration.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#4

Unread post by Fateh » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:09 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:The below mentioned article appeared on the forum some time back and its probably penned by Mr.Asghar Ali Engineer:-

Some of the components of Corruption, as for as Dawoodi Bohra Community is concerned, are
1) unquestioned authority with absolute power
2) non-accountability
3) no transparency
4) chain of middle men
5) arm-twisting
6) bribery and finally
7) apathy of Bohras

The Dawoodi Bohra religious establishment has made taxes and donation mandatory, even the religious and spiritual head of the community openly ask for donations. We, Bohras are not aware and those who are aware are too scared to stand up for our rights; we would suffer in status quo rather than standing up for our rights, the famous alibi 'Apne shooN karye, badhaj aywa che' …..That is why there is a rampant poverty in a community of filthy rich businessmen who together organize "Burhani Expo" every now and then.

Our religious establishment is only concerned with self-enrichment and wealth accumulation. Because they know that, no crime is too serious or big before money. One can even purchase the law and influence the judgment. Again wealth is not the only motivation for corruption. Power is frequently a great motivator, and the administration pursues power at all cost regardless of who gets hurt. When money is able to buy people's consciences, corruption begins. Money is power. Corruption starts from the establishment because it can be manipulated.

Those who raise their voice against corruption are either sidelined with or forced to leave the community. This accelerates the growth of corruption and corruption breeds corruption. Most of the Bohras waiting to get their children married or bury their dead have taken corruption as part and parcel of the Dawat system. They don't have hatred or ill feeling towards corrupt Jamaat members or Aamils. They think that without it, we cannot survive and sustain in this community. Corruption continues unchecked in our so-called religious administration because the people remain helpless victims or passive observers of the process. "Apne shooN karvoo chhe".

Today the Bohra religious establishment is one among the most corrupt religious establishments, thanks to the ever growing greed of every one from top to bottom in Daiz-Zaman's family and Saifee-Burhani administration. With the introduction and forceful collection of excessive taxes and frequent hi-tech tamashas of Dai's self-glory and most important refusing to account for frequent huge collections.

I am sorry to say, Syedna Saheb himself is responsible for growing corruption in his family and his administration.
In order to become richest men from a pauper and to build his financial empire our late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb deliberately introduced the corruption in the Dawat system. He first became an Absolute Power in himself by claiming Dai-ul-Mutlaq. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” He went to the extent of calling himself "Elahul-Ard" (God on earth) that too in court of law. He altered the text of Misaq (oath of allegiance) to become superior to Allah (even Allah cannot pardon a breaker of misaq unless Dai pardons him and he takes misaq again.)

He claimed that he was not accountable to any one and he was above the laws of land. Those Bohras who dared to ask him account were severely punished. When in 1950 charity laws were made applicable he coined a word "Sole-Trustee". He also claimed that he is religious and temporal head of the community and started taking all decisions regarding the Bohra community's religious as well social and secular affairs and introduced "Raza" (permission) for all acts including burial. He had fixed a fee for "Raza" of every affair.

He then took over all local Jamats and introduced a central governing body "Al-Wazarut-Saifia" and Aamils were put under control of this body thus introducing a chain of middle-men. Now no follower can reach to Dai without going through this chain. This gave way to arm-twisting and bribery. All these components of corruption were thus installed by late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. He was an intelligent and well-read man. He was aware of Fatemid history, necessity of hierarchical system, power and importance of authority, secret working etc. He also knew that people in general and Dawoodi Bohras in particular show very strict adherence to their faith and belief. They are very sensitive towards religion and religious leaders.

He knew that:
The Ismaili mission was started with a political aim to establish an unbiased and just political rule against the repressive rules of Umayyad and Abbasid regimes. Ismaili Imams did establish what is known as Fatemi Empire in small part of Arab, Iraq and North Africa and that too for a short period (297 to 567 Hijri).

In my very personal opinion the political purpose of Ismaili d'awa, the close-knit organization, the secret functioning of organization, absolute loyalty to Imam all ended with the establishment of Fatemid Empire or at the most with the fall of Fatemid Empire. Fatemid rule ended with its downfall. And two months or six month-old 21st Imam was sent into seclusion. Since last 900 years there is no trace of any Imam from progeny of last seen 21st Imam. Dawoodi Bohras believe that one of the successors of Imam is somewhere secretly guiding the destinies of the faithful and he is in communication with the Dai of the time. But according to late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb's statement in the Burhanpur Dargah Case (1925) Imam's existence is imaginary and it is just a part of Dawoodi Bohra faith.

Now just imagine after such a long and painful struggle when the empire fell suddenly, it must have shaken the faithful. So to pacify them and sustain them with the hope of Imam's return and re-establishing the Fatemid Empire a chain of Dai must have started. (This is not in any way an effort to belittle the highly intellectual pursuit of Ismaili Imams and Ismaili thinkers.)

The d'awa was shifted to India to safeguard it. The Dawat system was devised for the guidance of Mumineen in religious matters, to facilitate rites of burial, marriage, prayers etc. Since it was physically not possible for Mumineen all over to reach the Dai, the system of appointing Amils and Maullims by the local Jamaat was introduced to help local Mumineen in performing their day to day religious rites.

Except in the initial period most of the Bohra Dais had spent their life in protecting the followers and the actual mission of 'd'awat-e-hadiyah of calling or inviting people to Ismaili faith had ended long back. The hope of re-establishing Fatemid Empire had receded gradually, and then forgotten. Hence the posts of Hujjati-Laili, Hujjati-Nahari, Dai al-du'at, Bab al-abwab and Dail-Balag had already become redundant and now the posts of Dail-Mutlaq, Mazoon and Mukasir have also lost their significance.

I am sure the present so-called Bohra religious establishment very well realizes this status and hence it is making use of the followers' blind faith, enforcing it with worldly glory of the Dai and his fake miracles to enhance the Dai's family business. Finally I like to say that first we should acknowledge that there is corruption in our religious establishment and then unless there is an active intervention of the individual Bohras in all cases of corruption the greater purity cannot be introduced in the dawat's administration.
That is why i am dam sure that our db sect is not on haq & Imam is not with us.Imam is not in seclusion ,no reason to be in hide ,he must be with the true sect of Islam & guiding their followers any where in the world .Its our duty to find that true sect & join them. He may also know our position but due to lake of our burning desire for him he is not helping us.So its my personal opinion that we should produce a burning desire for him in our heart for him definitely before our death he will appear in front of us.May Allah give us opportunity to see our true Imam in our life.

olum
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:44 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#5

Unread post by olum » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:16 am

good luck, and find some true sect, and by the way if u really fail to iginate burning desire in ur heart, last assort will be set ur self on fire. :mrgreen:

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#6

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:09 am

Asad my concern before you get optimistic

Many will talk the talk but not walk the walk...if you lead the charge you will notice only a few will participate ther rest will let you down and join the abdes, you will be surprised they will deceive you be the ones shouting lanat on you.

You will be against the years of brainwashing and Misaq so why do you think they will rebel.

Have you noticed the abdes fall ver each other in queues to pay their master so they look good in public.

Now before you report to the authorities let me advise you as I am part time enforcement , not a watchman as some abdes might respond!

You will need to prove they are committing a crime has tax evasion occurred, is there a suspicion of money laundering
The money is being forcefully demanded
Even if it forcefully demanded what if you refuse to pay are you in danger or your human rights will be denied in other words you will need to prove discrimation, defamation or persecution.

Your best option is refuse to pay and disobey and wait for consequences and then report to the authorities if you are a victim of the consequences

Since the jamaat is a corporation they have the right of admission.

You may be able to contact your elected representative and seek an. investigation into potential breach of public order, foreigners ie Indian amils insighting discrimination, division and extremism , you may be able to raise the risk of money laundering and seek their visa be revoked

Once you do the above you are prepared to come forward as a witness and be sure that you are not counter sued. Being anonymous will weaken the case.

The reason I am discussing this is someone can find a way to revolt with all these constraints.

SBM
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#7

Unread post by SBM » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:16 am

You will need to prove they are committing a crime has tax evasion occurred, is there a suspicion of money laundering
When Shezaadas go to different Bilads for Ziyafaats they only collect CASH and not CHECKS and I am sure when they fly thru airport their CHAMCHAS are carrying cash on them one of these days they would be searched by Customs Agent and finding anything more than $ 10,000 will initiate the inquiry. Remember Diamond laundering from Uganda and since then Syedna or his Shezaadas have not visited Uganda despite many Abde Bohras still reside there

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#8

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:48 pm

The days of carrying cash through customs and across borders or carrying diamonds in their pagdis are long gone. Now these goons have become very sophisticated. what they have done is in every country, they have opened an account in the name of Dawat e hadiya which is registered as charitable and income tax free. So now, everything in cash they collect is deposited in that account and then when needed is electronically or via check is transferred to wherever it is needed, how clever. So when they go through the customs their hands are clean and pagdis empty. same thing is done with gold and diamonds received, local dawat e hadiya account converts them into cash and deposits in to this thieving account which is a facade for charity. The only charity done is very nominal to show and advertise rest is all loot for the ever expanding Saifee Mahal brood.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:32 pm

Here are the addresses to E-mail your fraud request--------Us consul in Mumbai------------ mumbaiNIV@state.gov,webmastermumbai@state.gov, mumbaif@state.gov


I fully support and second your views about such provocative and disgusting ritualistic ethnicities that destroys ones ultimate goals for salvation. The leaders and the kothars of Bohra communities around the world are leading their own people astray, out of GOD's path and into the darkness. The following sites might help promote your cause:

1. http://www.fbi.gov/

2. http://foia.fbi.gov/

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=2045

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#10

Unread post by Fateh » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:57 pm

olum wrote:good luck, and find some true sect, and by the way if u really fail to iginate burning desire in ur heart, last assort will be set ur self on fire. :mrgreen:
Thanks bro, for wish me good luck.may Allah give you hidayat to see the right path of Islam.I also thankful to you for your good suggestion about set my self into fire.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#11

Unread post by Hanif » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:46 pm

And foremost before you start your rebellion first convince your Wife, She'll be the one person who will break your resolve before you even step out of your house.


I know a few women who are stronger in their convictions about the corruptness of the leaders than their husbands. I am talking about educated people. It is their up-bringing. Some men have been conditioned to believe to give in. On the other hand, professional women, who come from poor families know how they got where they have reached with hard work and sacrifice and they refuse to give in and force their husbands not to give in either.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:09 pm

One of the many reasons for bohras succumbing to kothar pressure is that they are basically petty traders and shopkeepers mostly engaged in the business of hardware, plywood, glass etc wherein they have to deal with co-bohras who many a times happen to be fanatics and with whom they cannot afford to lose business. Hence they sing the same tune as it pleases their business associates. Moreover there is an acute scarcity of the true Islamic teachings as they are not allowed to mingle with mainstream muslims due to which they dont have any knowledge with regard to comparative study of religion.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#13

Unread post by Hanif » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:24 pm

Moreover there is an acute scarcity of the true Islamic teachings as they are not allowed to mingle with mainstream muslims due to which they dont have any knowledge with regard to comparative study of religion.
That is not a good excuse. Who I want to mingle with and not mingle with is my prerogative. Bohoras are a class of ignoramuses (only about true Islam) and they have been conditioned to believe that they are the only true Muslims.

Only bohoras can believe that the Dai talks to Imam like children believe Santa Claus comes from North Pole. Only bohoras can accept the fact that an Amil and his thugs at the behest of the Dai and his family can force them to cough up wajebats beyond their means. These are educated bohoras we are talking about. They make me sick.

When you try talking to them why they are so submissive, they say, "have su karsu, kiya jasu?" Their minds have been so conditioned, that they are willing to accept slavery. They do not want to hear about right and wrong. They are beyond reach.

You see them in this forum too. They have excuses, excuses, excuses about why they are enslaved.

They complain about the leaders and then tell us, they do this or that to please their elders. So they blame their elders for their own sinful lives.

Very pathetic indeed.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#14

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:35 pm

H you criticize the individual but do not criticize the masses who did not support the few who rose when in the 70s rose in India and Africa . The few were humiliated and persecuted so a lesson was made. I do not see any difference if again people rose , they would be deserted.

Over time the zadas have amassed wealth and power through the politicians to suppress any budding revolt, it is like a mini north Korea.

Throwing tantrums will not help there are dozens of silent rebels who are quietly trying to erode the foundation , yes they may not be visible or making gains against the dinosaur , it is a by any means a personal jihad in the true sense. The aim should be to weaken the establishment so that personal freedoms and integrity are restored. This will solve many issues. Bohras are so controlled they have abdicated their rights to the establishment. They are victims of pschological child abuse through the madressa system.

Regarding Islam , bohra ism is so deviant there is no hope of improving it, if you look at it from an mainstream muslim perspective converting an abde bohra to Islam is like converting a pagan. Bohras are almost regarded as Ahmadiya , Aliwi, khojas .

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#15

Unread post by asad » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:36 am

It seems going to authorities is too tough for people as to who will bell the cat. So last and only option remaining is cut your payments, dont cave in to emotional money collection schemes of zaris, rubats at maqamat muqaddasa, Masjids etc. And foremost dont give any money for any kind of najwa, ziyafats, qadam, maqdam. No individual darees at home. If you have to pay, then pay as minimum as possible, haggle, bargain, lie, cry whatever you have to do to save money.

I am not against charity. Pay a significant amount, not just 2.5%. pay more. Pay atleast 5 % of your salary to a cause. but just make sure you pay directly to the needy.

PS: If you cant go to authorities. send the info to admin of this website. they will be in a better position to fight or report.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#16

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:48 am

Hanif wrote:
That is not a good excuse. Who I want to mingle with and not mingle with is my prerogative. Bohoras are a class of ignoramuses (only abou true Islam) and they have been conditioned to believe that they are the only true Muslims.
And what is true Islam as per you?

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#17

Unread post by asad » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:58 am

Br. MF,

I have pointed out this earlier also, and i am sorry to repeat it once again. You have a knack of diverting topics to a single track of where every thing shia is wrong. I can understand that but it really hampers any productive dialogue or solution we might have through this Forum. Every one over here understands your belief and your undying efforts to propagate your brand of Islam, but if you will excuse few topics to be discussed for what they were started then it will be a big help to all of us.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:30 pm

A text message which is being circulated amongst Mumbai suburban bohras by jamat :-

"Salam, Aavti kaal ni waaz nu ghanu takeed si kehvama aave che ke
dukan, service, jobs, college, tutions ane bisri koi bhi engagements muki ne hazir thavu".


This is to ensure a packed audience for Mansoos vayez on the day of shahadat of Mola Ali (a.s.).

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#19

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:55 pm

Copied from an Islamic website :-

The Messenger of Allah (saws) said, "No child is born but has the Islamic Faith, but its parents turn it into a Jew or a Christian.”

Allah Subhanah has bestowed two things to man (and Jinn), which he has not bestowed on any amongst His innumerable creations:

Intelligence or the Power of Reasoning
A Free Will to choose the path he wishes to follow

And therein lies the test of Allah Subhanah! The one who uses his intelligence and power of reasoning and chooses to strive to seek and obey the Truth, has been promised the Mercy and Forgiveness of the Merciful Lord.

The one who refuses to use his faculty of intelligence, and chooses to deny the importance of the Truth revealed by the All Mighty Creator, will deserve the Wrath and Anger of the All Mighty Lord!

If your heart is not absolutely content and satisfied with the religion of your forefathers, where man is subjugated by man, where man invokes and worships human beings, where man bows down in ‘sajdah’ to another man, where man is recognized as ‘abde-syedna’ (slave of syedna); if your conscience screams from your heart that something is wrong in the path chosen by your forefathers, then it would not be wisdom to keep following falsehood! It is obligatory on every human being, who has been bestowed with wisdom, intelligence, and power of reasoning from his Lord, that he strive to seek and obey only the Truth from his Lord!

Following a ‘deen’ or way of life, just because one’s forefathers followed it, will not be accepted as an excuse in the Just Court of Allah Subhanah! That is exactly what every people said to the Prophets of Allah who came to them with the Truth!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 170-171: When it is said to them, “Follow the Commands that Allah has sent down”, they reply, “We will follow only what we found our forefathers practising.” Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the Right Way! The mental condition of those who rejected the way of Allah may be likened to that of the cattle whom the shepherd calls but they hear nothing except the sound of shouts and cries. They are deaf, they are dumb, they are blind; therefore they do not understand anything.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 31 Surah Luqman verse 21: And when it is said to them, “Follow what Allah has sent down”, they say, “We shall only follow that upon which we found our forefathers.” What! Will they still be following them even if Shaitaan had been calling them to the raging Fire?

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 34 Surah Saba verse 43: When Our clear Revelations are recited to these people, they say, “This person only wants to turn you away from those deities whom your forefathers have been worshipping.”

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 43 Surah Zukhruf verse 22-25: Nay! But they say, “We found our forefathers on a way and we are only walking in their footsteps.” Even so, whenever before you We sent a warner to a habitation, its people of means said, “We have found our forefathers on a way and we are only following in their footsteps.” Every Prophet asked them, “Will you still go on following the same old way even if I guide you to a more right way than that you found your forefathers following?” They replied, “We disbelieve the religion with which you have been sent.” Consequently, We took vengeance on them. Just consider what was the end of those who denied.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#20

Unread post by Hanif » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:00 pm

Muslim First wrote:
Hanif wrote:
That is not a good excuse. Who I want to mingle with and not mingle with is my prerogative. Bohoras are a class of ignoramuses (only abou true Islam) and they have been conditioned to believe that they are the only true Muslims.
And what is true Islam as per you?

MF True Islam is one you are ignorant of. You don't even know what Islam means. It means Peace, but do you have any? So true Islam cannot be explained to a Jahaliya who does not practice Islam. Wasalaam.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#21

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:30 pm

MF True Islam is one you are ignorant of. You don't even know what Islam means. It means Peace, but do you have any? So true Islam cannot be explained to a Jahaliya who does not practice Islam. Wasalaam.
I am willing to be educated. If you wish we can open "Tru Islam" in Islam section.

Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#22

Unread post by Hanif » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:42 pm

Muslim First wrote:
MF True Islam is one you are ignorant of. You don't even know what Islam means. It means Peace, but do you have any? So true Islam cannot be explained to a Jahaliya who does not practice Islam. Wasalaam.
I am willing to be educated. If you wish we can open "Tru Islam" in Islam section.

Go ahead, make my day. Will meet you there.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#23

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 pm

Everything that happens, happens for the good........ This is an old saying which not only has a philosophical meaning but even a spiritual one as we are told that all the calamities that befall us are for our betterment, a fact which one realises over a period of time. Everything that happens is only by the will of Allah (swt) and the believers take all the negativities in a positive manner and as a boon rather then a mere calamity.

This relates to the recent incidents in surat, udaipur and various other jamats wherein the poor and helpless bohras were harrassed and beaten up by the dawat hierarchy, the only reason being disobedience and non payment of haftas. Although we have deep sympathy with the victims but their plight has shaken and to an extent awakened the average bohras. Contrary to what the kothari agents potray over here, the ground reality is completely different. There is a constant buzz and a sense of disillusion and anger within the average bohras. They are no longer willing to pay hefty haftas like before because the economic condition accross globe is extremely bad which has effected the bohra businessmen, workers etc equally. Everything is highly expensive and things which were easy to procure are now beyond the reach of many bohras.

Slowly but steadily better sense has started prevailing amongst them and they have now become more practical thanks to the high tech world. Bohras now worry more about their children's future, their marriage expenses, education expenses including other post graduate courses which are prohibitively expensive. In short they have now started feeling the pinch. Their silence is not a sign of willfully accepting the divine orders from the zaadas but a feeling of helplessness due to social and family pressures, a factor which is bound to erode over a passage of time and which in all likelihood seems to be very near. The aura of the 52nd dai which was cast over them due to the excellent marketing skills of kothar is slowly dying down as the dai himself is not in a position to communicate with them thru vayez, bayans, public appearences like before. The excessive ziafats/mafsusiyats/hadiyats which were once seen as a matter of pride are now looked down upon as bohras have realised that this is nothing but a money making racket to milk the rich bohras.

The internal cold war inside saifee mahal is also brewing up as the mazun and other qasre alis and baiti zainis who were once in a dominant position are no longer that powerful as there is a sinister plan by the dai's sons and some other close relatives to make them defunct and transfer the entire power to this selected group of zaadas. With power comes money and vice versa and no person especially the ones who were part of the money making racket will like to lose power. This may in all likelihood convert into a revolution as these present powerless ones are aware that the silent majority of disgruntled and disillusioned bohras are with them. All of this could take place anytime and looking at the present state of affairs it seems that it may happen in the very near future. During the days of Moosa (a.s.), no one had thought that the mighty army of Firaun would vanish in a matter of minutes but it did happen. Allah (swt) has His own ways.

This also reminds me of a famous legend of Noah (a.s.) narrated long time back :-
It so happened that when Allah (swt) instructed Noah (a.s.) to build an ark, Noah (a.s.) faced many difficulties and was harrased and ridiculed by the enemies in many ways. One such way was that they answered nature's call in the very ark that Noah (a.s.) was building. Everyday herds of people came and dirtied the ark. Noah (a.s.) prayed to Allah (swt) and requested Him to bring an end to this as it was becoming difficult for him to build the ark in such a filthy environment. Allah (swt) told him to continue with his work and He (Allah) will continue with His work. Allah (swt) said that He will make sure that the ones who dirtied the ark will be the ones who will clean it up. On hearing this Noah (a.s.) was baffled and didnt understand Allah's plans.

After a few days a highly contagious skin disease started spreading amongst the enemies and for which they couldnt find any cure. Even then they didnt stop harrasing Noah (a.s.) and continued with their daily chore of shitting in the ark. Once it so happened that a man accidentally slipped and fell on the pile of shit. He got up and disgustedly shrugged off and started wiping the shit from his body. To his surprise he found that on doing so his skin disease got cured. He then ran to his fellowmen and told them that he had found out the cure of their disease. On hearing this, everyone came and collected the pile of shit in buckets and thereby cleaned the ark spick and span ! Thereafter Allah (swt) said : "Jo meri duniya mein gandagi phelata hain, mein usi se woh gandagi saaf karvata hoon".

Moral of the story:- The zaadas will be stripped, beaten and thrown out of saifee mahal by their co-relatives and bohras only and not by any outsiders !!

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#24

Unread post by asad » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:54 am

GM,

That was a brilliant post, excellent summary of thoughts of many of us.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#25

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:02 pm

Thanks bro asad. :)

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:08 pm

An email which is being circulated amongst bohras :-

In Ramadan 1430, the Momineen of Mississauga have witnessed a new level of arrogance from their Amil, Sheikh Ali Akber Attar.

During his Bayan on Sunday September 6th, 2009,the Amil told the Momineen of Mississauga that if they do not attend the Majlison Ramadan 19th (Imam Ali's Shahadat) and did not even come for the niyaz on that day, then he would question if they were "Momin or not".Emotional blackmail at its very best!

On Laylat-ul-Qadar, he publicly and shamelessly told off a Momin bhai for reciting Dua in an audible voice (and presumably stealing his own thunder). The next day, within the clear hearing of several Momineen waiting outside the Jamat office, he engaged in a very loud and emotional argument with the same Momin bhai. The next day, that Momin bhai suffered a mild stroke - a sheer coincidence or the direct result of the Amil's high-handed ways?

Shk. Ali Akber Attar has made no secret of the fact that he spies on Momineen using the security cameras which have been installed in the Markaz. Apart from the question as to why security cameras are needed inside the Markaz, has anybody given thought to the fact that:

While on the one hand, our ladies are always required to be seated behind the purdah, they too are clearly visible from the security cameras. Who watches these security camera recordings?
Several young mothers freely nurse their babies in the ladies section. Who else is watching them?
Many Bohra behno, feeling "safe" behind the purdah, remove their ridahs and wear namaazi jodis on Fazil raats such as Laylat-ul-Qadar.

Shk. Ali Akber Attar has made it compulsory for all Momineen households in Mississauga Jamat (apart from those who had volunteered to do Niyaz in Ramadan) to contribute $252.00 so that all Momineen can partake in the "barakaat of doing Niyaz". Unless the payment of $252.00 was made, clearance could not be obtained and Wajebat was not accepted.The Amil forgets that Wajebat is, by its very basis, wajib on all Momineen,whereas the Niyaz contribution was just that - a voluntary contribution. Also,no explanation was given as to what this money was to be used for given that individual Momineen had already volunteered to do Niyaz for every day in Ramadan.

Skh. Ali Akber Attar has also decreed that henceforth Raza will not be given to any family for any function unless all daughters over the age of 18 and all sons over the age of 21 are registered with the ITNC. Several Momineen that I personally know of are facing problems at home with their teenage children refusing to attend Markaz because of the pressure to register with ITNC. Instead of encouraging Momineen children to attend Markaz and participate in Jamat activities, the Amil is turning them away.

The most dastardly thing done this Ramadan, and quite possibly the lowest level that any Jamat anywhere has ever stooped to,was the public announcement of the names of the Momineen who had not paid wajebaat. This was a clear attempt to "name and shame". If his intention was to humiliate these Momineen into submission to his demands, his action may have completely backfired on him. For the first time that I can recall, a petition was circulated among Momineen the next day condemning the public announcement of the names. And several Momineen freely and openly signed the petition.

In one of his banyans, the Amil inadvertently revealed that the decision on how much Wajebat a Momin is asked to pay is based on the car that the Momin drives! As he put it, "Look at the car, and you will know what that Momin's capabilities are".

Now that Ramadan is nearly over, Shk. Ali Akber Attar will be going full steam ahead with the new masjid project. As he said,even if one takes a cautious number of 100 Momineen who own homes in Mississauga, and each home has a value of at least $250,000.00, the Momineen of Mississauga Jamat are "sitting on $25,000,000.00". I guess those 100 Momineen had better sell their homes and pay up the sale proceeds to Shk. Ali AkberAttar.

It is high time this arrogant Amil, who has been sent here to SERVE Momineen, is stopped. We always complain, yet we do nothing. Momineen of Mississauga, enough is enough. either stand up and refuse to let a bully walk all over you or else follow his personal Farman and stop complaining behind his back.

If any of you have the contact of any Shahzada Saheb or Bhaisaheb, please pass on this information to them.

What rebellion?

Before you know the flag bearers of this rebellion will realise that there is no one following behind them if they look behind and they will be the sacrificial lambs. I have been there. All of these guys who say "Lets do it" will be the first ones doing Mafi under duress and fear of the Kothar - no mishaq, no wedding no burial.

So be very sure who your friends are. We adults are slaves but our children will change us. I am so glad that I live in North America and my children have shown me what a hypocrite I have been all these years. They show me the light not Moula. Islam is a simple religion and there is no compulsion. If you want to stay in the cult you will have to lick arse because your fears are internal. Understand you do not need these guys.

Read your Koran, say your prayers at home, mind your own business, and enjoy the wider community around you. They have a lot to offer and can teach you a great deal about what human values are. But if you want to go there and be with them and eat the "good food" you are a prisoner. Take off your chains and lynch these extortionists. Above all educate your children especially your daughters and create intellectual space in your house rather than reciting the same all crap.

Good luck.

hypocritebohra
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#27

Unread post by hypocritebohra » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Interesting Topic Brother GM but it is not worth it ,no one is going to stand up with you to fight and rebel, neither will they perish, they will just squrim and claw each other like crabs in a basket pulling down any one who dares to raise his head up .
I would intsead prefer to walk away from this dawat much as Guru Dutt did in a scene form an old movie Pyaasa with a song on his lips,
"Yeh Mahalon , Yeh Takhto Yeh Tajo ki Dawaat
Yeh Momin Ke Dushman Jamaato ki Dawat
Yeh Daulat Ke Bhooke Zaadao Ki Dawaat
Yahan Hadiyat agar mil be jaye to kyaa hein
Yahan Hadiyat agar mil be jaye to kyaa hein "

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#28

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:19 pm

hypocritebohra wrote: I would intsead prefer to walk away from this dawat much as Guru Dutt did in a scene form an old movie Pyaasa with a song on his lips,
"Yeh Mahalon , Yeh Takhto Yeh Tajo ki Dawaat
Yeh Momin Ke Dushman Jamaato ki Dawat
Yeh Daulat Ke Bhooke Zaadao Ki Dawaat
Yahan Hadiyat agar mil be jaye to kyaa hein
Yahan Hadiyat agar mil be jaye to kyaa hein "
Some original lyrics of the song too fit in very well :-

"Har ek jism ghayal,
Har ek ruh pyaasi,
Nigaho me uljhan,
Dil-o-mein udaasi,

Yeh Dawat hain
Ya Aalam-e-badhawasi,
Yeh dawat agar mil bhi jaaye to kya hain

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#29

Unread post by Jamali » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:09 am

The true fact of the matter is that the Dawoodi Bohras dont have the ability to rebel. There are various reasons for that namely family issues, social issues, religious issues etc. However whatever the reasons; because of their actions they bring the whole community down and make the royal family all the more powerful. Today truth be told, the royal family is at a position that it is able to "buy" anyone or do anything in their favour and whatever form of rebellion you do will be squashed. Fair enough you complain to the relevant authorities, dont dance to their tunes, refuse to meet their demands...etc in essence you will only hurt yourself and not them. We have reformists but have they made a difference...Maybe a bit yes but the royal family is one step ahead. We may have lost a hundred, thousand, lakh of followers but they are preparing a million more to follow them in terms of brain washing the children of the current followers..They are smart in their ways that they keep the people who can make a difference in their fold by giving them titles and until you have a mass rebellion, you have nothing substantial against the royal family. I think to bring change now we need to change the way we rebel.

I have always said that to bring mass rebellion you need to give them ideas to extract more and more. A rebellion is only powerful if you have the numbers and the only way to get numbers is to ensure that more demands are made by the royal family. I know it sounds cruel for the people already suffering but lets face the truth...despite them suffering they are still in the community...Do you really need to be in the community to be a good dawoodi bohra???

This is my way to make a rebellion more effective:
1. The right hand men....expose their wealth to the amils and the zaadas...Lets face it the royal family loves money and will not spare anyone.These people are loaded and they hide by being chamchas...expose them and their wealth and see how they change their chamchagiri then.
2. People within the community to be taxed more...I feel that the community is not paying what they should be paying in terms of their dues. The 'smart' bohras always find ways to reduce their wajebats and dues by claiming not having enough income and this happens alot in the first world countries. Rightfully wajebat and Zakat should be based on individual incomes...Push for wajebats and other dues to be based on individual incomes. For that, push for jamaat to ask for income taxe returns based on last year for fixing the amounts. This has two benefits: The people who truly are suffering can be spared and those who lie are forced to dish out more. This works great in first world countries Like US, Canada, UK etc.
3. In countries in Africa, well the people closest to you know what you have and what not. Those people should blow the whistle and let the jamaat know. If someone in Africa owns his own home, most likely its paid up as very very few people work on morgages so expose this to the local jamaat. Let the jamaat know how many branches a bohra company has...expose the revenues and let the jamaat decide...then see how people wake up to the cause..

Please note i am not trying to encourage ill will or vindictiveness in the community but the way the royal family has become and the way the community is, this is the only way you will be able to bring change...

Dbc1
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Rebel or perish or have we already perished

#30

Unread post by Dbc1 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:49 am

For a rebellion to happen, there needs to be a mass revolution , and mass revolution can be caused by mass suffering. I believe the majority of the bohras rather find subdued Importance and enjoy a societal status within the clan.. More than what they lose, they believe or rather are made to believe in how much they gain in this abde life..

Without a mass revolution it's nothing but a waste..

A huge and strong Egyptian revolution toppled Mubarak but the new president Morsey is showing similar colors with authoritarian rule.. Just to show how the strongest of the masses can be controlled with people in power..