Reverting help needed!!!

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#31

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:23 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:Assalamalikum

Br murtuza

If you are in mumbai then you can go to IRF (Islamic research foundation ) Dongri, They deal with such issues almost on a daily basis , they also provide protection, fight cases etc for new converts if at all the local hindu organizations protest.
Apart from bohra reverts there you would inshallh find many reverted sisters who can help your "to be" wife to enter in the fold of Islam with true intentions and belief. If you are really interested then you can mail me and we can arrange a meeting for you with some former bohras who actually deal with such issues and have good experience with it.
Brother Murtuza,

Please note that IRF is a Wahhabi organization. Their leader Zakir Naik says 'radiallahu anhu' for Yazid (l.a), the killer of Prophet's grandson and family. Would you seek help from such an organization, which is devoid of love for Hussain (a.s), the apple of the Prophet's eye?

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#32

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:36 pm

What sfu has said is complete LIE , dr zakir never said Radiallahu anhu which is a praise ,rather he asked mercy for yazid and that too when a non muslim was asking questions about shia sunni conflict and to pacify the matter. The munafiqs want to just use the yazid issue to slander dr zakir naik in extreme jealousy. Dr Zakir naik has also clearly said in public that he loves ahle bayt and it is an article of faith. What these Ayatulas , and shia mullas of mumbai doing? they just know how to give fiery emotional speeches as they have no respect for Islam nor they do dawah of ISlam to non muslims. JUST GO , dOWN the streets of mumbai, dongri, bhendi bazar, and Iran(i have many student friends from Iran) and see the character, dealings, and adherence to islam of these "self proclaimed lovers of ahle bayt"(shia)

According to Islam they are the biggest enimies of ahle bayt as they have introduced many new things in Islam and have even stooped to the lowest level of IDOL WORSHIP.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#33

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:32 am

Aa rather than try to assume what Zakir naik really thinks I would rather ask does IRF propagate anti Shia ideology?

Does irf care whether Shias love their Ahlul a lot or not? Why bother criticising shias unless they are diminishing the respect of Allah or Rasullullah.

I admire that you came on board to offer an alternative, which was a dilemma for the young chap but when you started attacking Shias and have bigoted views and stated in a discriminative way you lost credibility.

I have Dissapointment that the murtuza is worried about petty rituals and cannot stand up for his love and by now not know that Fgm is not fardh and just ignore it.

I personally have a lot of respect of some of wahhabi and sunni beliefs and in some case prefer it over shai beliefs but Muslims generally spend so much time arguing on things that are different between them then the common things, as if they have to outsmart the next muslim guy!

The issue around kothar oppression is different in that they are as intolerant as some of the extremists.

Why not discuss the things that we all agree on like 1 Allah, , our last prophet , and that that are different are minor rituals that has not fundamental issue and carry on with life.

It is tragic that we kill each other because we can't tolerate that our neighbor should be able practise his non critical ritual.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#34

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:06 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:i have kept quiet on this long enough but i think you deserve a taste of your own medicine now.

What about "likes of you" who went on rampage in Mumbai?
it has been proved now, that they, the likes of you, came their with the express intention of creating trouble

What about the "likes of you" who killed people in a number of people in a party in Afghanistan, the day before yesterday, just because their was music going on?

What about the "likes of you" who stopped a bus in Iraq, specifically targetted Shia Muslims and murdered them in cold blood?

JUST GO , dOWN the streets of mumbai, dongri, bhendi bazar, and see the character, dealings, and adherence to islam of these "self proclaimed followers of Sunnah"(Sunni Muslims).

Atleast you wont see any decent Bohra youth revving and zooming around on their bikes in the arrow gully's or leching at women. And you live there, so im sure you wont disagree with me :evil:
Those who did that in mumbai rampage werent from us , they were called by Raza Academy which is a sunni BARELVI organization(hope you know the clear distinction between a barelvi and salafi\ahle hadith) who also happen to virulently oppose Dr Zakir naik, infact 2 years back a mob of sunni barelvis stoned IRF too. and few years back a mob of sunni barelvi vandalized the dawah center at andheri. These sunni barelvi people are the ones who i have always hated since they bring a very bad name to Islam , they are the majority in bhendi bazar and have made it the worst place to live in also they have made things difficult for the peace loving bohras by setting a very bad "Miya bhai" example. Allah swt has given the true muslims the great responsibility of inviting to truth encouraging good and forbidding evil. But what happens when these sunni barelvi people themselves go diametrically opposite teachings?. Infact bohras are still bohras, non muslims still non muslims only because of them they alongwith shias have set a very bad example in the indian subcontinent , the wahhabis(as you call them) are a tiny minority everywhere in these pagan lands and they are always at odds with these "miyabhais". Inspite of being in the minority they are the ones who have made peaceful contributions to the Islamic intelectual circles , a case in point is IRF and numerous dawah centers in mumbai alone where, many non muslims embrace Islam on a daily basis. Even i myself did not change by just reading some books on Islam and Islamic history, their (Salafi)example was a major influence on me. What else coud be a motivation to leave all luxuries of being a bori? I still curse those days as i lived and still live among the sunni barelvi+shia+bori area of miya bhais which never allowed a truth seeking person to seek pure Islam. These barelvi people even harm the poor boris many times which set a very bad example in the minds of Boris regarding the muslims. So one of my other bori friend in the mohallah who also changed independently faced lot of criticism and challenges from the bohra people and relatives with comments like "you should have become a christian\hindu\" why the hell you want to become musalmaan? Alhamdulillah he managed to tolerate these harsh criticisms but not all are strong enough to do that . I heard some bohra who also changed went back to bohra fold as money, housing etc was given to him by the bori amils to come back, and he went back.
infact the shias + barelvi sunni +bohri graveworshippers have formed an alliance in bhendi bazar . You see this shia+barelvi cable tv nexus here have banned peace tv here but all other evil channels like even fashion tv, sai baba, god tv , win tv, qtv are being aired . Islam loving "wahhabis" have removed TV from their houses or installed private satallite dishes just for peace tv. The true muslims have always lived in presecution by these biddatis and grave worshippers except only when help has come directly from ALLah SWT himself as was the case of the so called "wahhabi revolution" before that such holy places were also made places of business like ajmer dargah and by the direct help of ALLAH swt these shrines were demolished inspite of a huge international pressure to not do so, various barelvi delegations went in person to stop this but were defated by ALLAH swt, biting their nails in disgust.

And regarding suicide bombings , etc they are also opposed and condemmed srongly by salafis\wahhabis, the taliban, sipah e sahabah are the organizations which indulge in these evil activities and hence they are kicked out of saudi arabia, these organizations(taliban,al qaeeda,sipah sahaba) follow the qutubist or deobandi ideology which salafis condemn. Only because they share certain beliefs(like grave demolishing,tawheed) with us, that does not mean that they are us or salafis.

You may be sad by reading this about so many different sects, but this is the decree of Allah swt, and this is the reality that we have been split into various sects, but dont take it in a negative way, you see there are only two groups one bad and one evil, the evil group is populated with all misguided sects like barelvi,shia etc and the and only one is correct and there is no compromize either you are in the right group or the evil group.

Two major features characterize all these evil groups
1)Hatred and ridicule for prophetic traditions(hadith and quran)
when Allah swt himself said in Quran that he has sent down the "Zikr" and he will safeguard the "Zikr", its naive to assume Zikr only to be Quran,rather "Zikr" encompasses all the prophetic sayings . ALLAH has preserved all the sayings of the final prophet pbuh for the sheer reason of he being the final divinely appointed leader to mankind pbuh.
2)Indulging in personality idol worship negating tawheed
All these groups like barelvi , dawoodi bohra , shia etc have a personality figure whom they rever and love the way in which only Allah alone can be loved.
As Quran says:
And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allah as rivals (to Allah). They love them as they love Allah. But those who believe, love Allah more (than anything else). If only, those who do wrong could see, when they will see the torment, that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.)

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#35

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:55 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:What sfu has said is complete LIE , dr zakir never said Radiallahu anhu which is a praise ,rather he asked mercy for yazid and that too when a non muslim was asking questions about shia sunni conflict and to pacify the matter. The munafiqs want to just use the yazid issue to slander dr zakir naik in extreme jealousy. Dr Zakir naik has also clearly said in public that he loves ahle bayt and it is an article of faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXyJvBhqg4o

Here, he clearly says 'May Allah be pleased with him' after Yazid's name. That is the English translation for 'radiallahu anhu'. So, I am not a liar. Apologize to me, or I will summon you up on Judgment day for falsely calling me a liar.

If Zakir Naik says that he loves Ahlul Bayt, why does he want Allah to be pleased with Imam Hussain's (a.s) killer? Isn't this clear hypocrisy? Moreover, he had issued a long justification for calling Yazid 'radiallu anhu'. He never apologized or retracted his words. This clearly shows he is a nasibi.

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#36

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:43 am

I do have a doubt whether he said RAH or RA but it seems he did say RA , so if the video is correct i do apologise for that. What my intention was that you are trying to project dr zakir as nasibi \ hater of ahle bayt which is slander by trying to use the yazid issue . So the 'liar' was for that intention of you potraying dr as nasibi. There are many Ahle hadith scholars(wahiduz zaman, sanaullah amritsari) who dont put RA after yazid or his father simply because they were not of the muhajir as revealed in 9.100 and i personally take that stance . Regarding dr zaakir, he is a human and fallible like all so he too can commit mistake or what we might see as mistake might be his wisdom in handling the situation in front of non muslims to pacify the matter. I disagree on the face viel issue too of Dr zakir , i am of the view of full face viel like majority salafi scholars(Except Albani). The point is not to follow blindly anyone!

aliabbas_aa
Posts: 320
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Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#37

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:14 am

you should also know how ignorant kufr speeches are made by shias(isna asharis) . Such speeches are regular in mughal masjid, mehfil khurasan near dongri and even ignorant boris, barelvis also end up coming in their fold as i myself have attended them . This is the reason why the amils also are strictly against this idol worshipping practices and have banned the zainaabiya shrine in mohallah. Here is an excerpt of speeches made by these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eywP29G ... re=related

aflatoon
Posts: 60
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Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#38

Unread post by aflatoon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:19 pm

deleted

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#39

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:42 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:you should also know how ignorant kufr speeches are made by shias(isna asharis) . Such speeches are regular in mughal masjid, mehfil khurasan near dongri and even ignorant boris, barelvis also end up coming in their fold as i myself have attended them . This is the reason why the amils also are strictly against this idol worshipping practices and have banned the zainaabiya shrine in mohallah. Here is an excerpt of speeches made by these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eywP29G ... re=related
You have a knack of picking up only on certain things which suit your open agenda of Shia-bashing. Your bigotry does not allow you to see the whole picture. Out of thousands of Shia Maulanas, you picked on this one only!

Just for your information, the following hadith appears in Bukhari:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (praying or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection (Refuge), I will protect him; (i.e. give him My Refuge) and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him." (Book #76, Hadith #509) [Bukhari]

Now, if you apply your general Wahhabi rule of literalism here, Abu Hurayra will be seen as 'speaking kufr' in this hadith. Every pious worshiper will become 'Allah'. But you will choose to apply symbolic reasoning to this hadith. But when it comes to Shia-bashing, you will apply selective reasoning which suits your agenda of portraying Shii'tes as idol-worshipers. There, lies your hypocrisy.

anajmi
Posts: 13506
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#40

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:53 pm

Out of thousands of Shia Maulanas, you picked on this one only!
A disease which affects all and sundry. Out of thousands of Sunni Maulanas, isn't Zakir Naik a shia favourite? And he is not even a Maulana.

You should apply wahhabi rule of literalism as your interpretation of this hadith as well, just like you do with the other one about Allah's leg in hell. You can't have it both ways.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#41

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:25 pm

anajmi wrote:
Out of thousands of Shia Maulanas, you picked on this one only!
A disease which affects all and sundry. Out of thousands of Sunni Maulanas, isn't Zakir Naik a shia favourite? And he is not even a Maulana.

You should apply wahhabi rule of literalism as your interpretation of this hadith as well, just like you do with the other one about Allah's leg in hell. You can't have it both ways.
Zakir Naik looms large on peace tv all the time. He occupies excessive footage time compared to most other Wahhabi preachers, so it is but natural he will be picked on, especially when he openly calls Yazid 'radiallahu anhu' among other things.

As for 'leg in hell', I consider that to be fabrication simply because no matter how much I try to metaphorize it, it fails to make any symbolic sense to me. As far as this hadith qudsi is
concerned, it makes symbolic sense. One cannot take this hadith 'literally' anyway, as it would squarely go against Surah Tauheed.

anajmi
Posts: 13506
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Reverting help needed!!!

#42

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:50 pm

it fails to make any symbolic sense to me.
Ever consider that it might be your own fault?
Zakir Naik looms large on peace tv all the time. He occupies excessive footage time compared to most other Wahhabi preachers, so it is but natural he will be picked on, especially when he openly calls Yazid 'radiallahu anhu' among other things.
So you have your justification and he has his!!