Bohra SMS Duniya

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
zinger
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2491

Unread post by zinger » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:23 am

SBM wrote:
zinger wrote:
Zinger
Disgracing the community, I think that job is very well done by your Master (since you took his Misaq) SMS is doing very well, hugging Baba Ramdev, showing the pictures of him killing Wild animals for pleasure and dancing with Yamanis with sword as well riding A/C horse buggie during the solemn month of Muharrum. - I HAVE BEEN QUITE VOCAL ABOUT MY STAND ON ALL THESE POINTS THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED
Donot you lecture me about the sanctity of this Dai and his followers, we have people like you who are disgrace to the community because of your spineless hypocritical stand against slavery and double talk - IM NOT LECTURING YOU, IM JUST POINTING OUT A FACT TO YOU
I donot need brownie points, it is you who is trying to score brownie from both SMS and SKQ masters - REALLY? LIKE THEY EVEN KNOW WHO I AM!!! :lol:

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2492

Unread post by haqniwaat » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:32 am

I've been doing a lot of thinking and I think the biggest mistake we have made is giving too much importance and respect to shehzadas. The importance and respect factor has to drop considerably if we want any harmony within the community, whether you are a mufaddali or a qutbi.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2493

Unread post by asad » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:39 am

Zombies ready to march. Pics from Dubai Metro Stadium station, nearest Metro to Burhani Masjid where MS is staying.

Image

Image

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2494

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:55 am

haqniwaat wrote:I've been doing a lot of thinking and I think the biggest mistake we have made is giving too much importance and respect to shehzadas. The importance and respect factor has to drop considerably if we want any harmony within the community, whether you are a mufaddali or a qutbi.
My friend haqniwaat, it is more than the shehzadas. The whole setup of the community is rotten, from top to bottom. Bohras are continuously taught not to question anything their so-called superiors say. Does not matter if it is a two-dime Amil or a shehzada. People are taught not to think for themselves, but just obey. That is the biggest problem. This leads to abject dependence on the clergy, which has proven to be a devastating thing for the community. We have lost all the great scholars, writers and thinkers. Now, even the most accomplished scholar and scientist (if there are any) or an elderly person, has to kiss the hand of the 5 years old kid of the local Amil, abject himself in front of him. Why? What has the kid done? Or, for that matter, what has the Amil done to deserve this unconditional respect? This must change, but I know that for majority of the Bohras who are under the yoke of Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saiuddin (DMMS) it won't. In fact, things will get worse.

I suggest everyone to stand up for themselves. Don't let the Amil bully you. Yes, it will be hard, and you may suffer. Surely, though, in the West at least these thugs and thieves can do nothing to you. So don't back down. Raise your voice using any and all means possible. If you are not confident in openly asking questions, do so anonymously. For example, create a email with an alias and flood the local Amil's and jamaat members inboxes with questions. Ask them for transparency. That is the only way you will break free of their clutches.

And, importantly, put these shehzada's in their place. They don't have any right to tell you what to do. Yes, listen to them, but be firm and do what you like. Bring them down a notch and once they realize they can't bully you, they will leave you alone.

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2495

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:00 am

Why every die hard bohra does not realize this? :roll:
What a fool the leader is making out of them :(
May Allah guide us all.Ameen

Aymelek
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2496

Unread post by Aymelek » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:06 am


haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2497

Unread post by haqniwaat » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:11 am

The mufaddalis have once again succeeded in postponing the Mumbai court case and making a mockery of not only the Bohras but of Islam itself. What is Islam now but a violent and backwards religion sworn to cultivate evil around the world while it glamorizes the defeat of women and children and shamelessly mocks morality and logic.

The golden age of Burhanuddin Mola RA is now just a memory in the hearts of the faithful and forever etched in jewels in the Book of Knowledge held in the hand of God almighty himself.

hsnhussain
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 7:36 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2498

Unread post by hsnhussain » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:12 am

Received on Whatsapp

"Maloon dawedaar yeh aaje imam Hussain thi dushmani batawi deedi. Ehna logo yeh jai ne Malaysia maa govt authorities ne inform karee deedu Ki dawoodi bohras Shia chhey, ane chehlum par imam Hussain no Maatam karse. Malaysia is d only country to ban Shias. 250,000 Shias chhey Malaysia maa, 600 mumineen ni families chhey. 3 masjid chhey- Penang, klang ane KUala lumpur maa. Kuala Lumpur wali masjid nu iftitaah nathi thayu.
Until jan 2014, we never faced any issues but fr d past one yr, dis Laeen dawedaar has caused a lot of probs. even d Amil Saab der does not get permanent visas now and has to shuttle in n out of Malaysia every 2-3 months.
Look at d true nature of dis shaitaan. He has finally revealed that he was and is a kaafir. Aaje chehlum ni raat maa dua kariye Ki aa imam Hussain na dushman ne khuda halaak karjo. Moula TUS ni shaan Malaysia jevaa countries maa bhi baland karjo. Ameen!"

Point to note-Msg doesn't mention which dawedaar and which moula. :roll:

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2499

Unread post by haqniwaat » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:18 am

Keep on fighting and Malaysia and the rest of the world will no longer be allowed to spiral minarets and will succumb to the cross of Christ.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2500

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:13 pm

haqniwaat wrote:The golden age of Burhanuddin Mola RA is now just a memory in the hearts of the faithful and forever etched in jewels in the Book of Knowledge held in the hand of God almighty himself.
Golden age? I'm hoping you did not have your tongue firmly planted in your cheek when you said that. If not then pray tell us what was so golden about that age. And golden on it own merit, not in comparison with Mufaddal Saifuddin's era.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2501

Unread post by alam » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:01 pm

haqniwaat wrote:I've been doing a lot of thinking and I think the biggest mistake we have made is giving too much importance and respect to shehzadas. The importance and respect factor has to drop considerably if we want any harmony within the community, whether you are a mufaddali or a qutbi.
To add to Biradar's comments, which I also agree with - there is the WIIFM factor, when citizens of a nation (UK) or followers of the Dawoodi Bohra faith and tradition support the institution of royalty. The commoners get the sense of "AWE" in the presence of royalty.

In fact research on this topic has fascinating applications - I will take this discussion to another thread.

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2502

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:13 pm

haqniwaat wrote:The mufaddalis have once again succeeded in postponing the Mumbai court case and making a mockery of not only the Bohras but of Islam itself. What is Islam now but a violent and backwards religion sworn to cultivate evil around the world while it glamorizes the defeat of women and children and shamelessly mocks morality and logic.

The golden age of Burhanuddin Mola RA is now just a memory in the hearts of the faithful and forever etched in jewels in the Book of Knowledge held in the hand of God almighty himself.
My friend haqniwaat, you seem depressed. Cheer up a little bit. These things take to resolve, and, at the end of the day, a court can't decide these matters in any case. The case being postponed does not say anything about Islam. Come on, be real! Islam has been around for 1400 years, so had the dawaat. How can a few months or a couple of years make any difference? At this point the schism is complete, and, to use your own metaphor, the glacier had split into two icebergs.

I personally feel we may be entering a golden age, one in which at least a few thinking people have woken up from their slumber, rudely, I should add, and realized that not all is well with the dawaat higher-ups, even including the da'i himself. Obviously, SMB (RA) was unable to stop his children and bothers from using the dawaat as their own personal purse, to fund their lifestyles of decadence.

SMB (RA) also was unable to handle the situation which developed with the progressive movement. One part of it, the part which denied any da'i al-mutlaq after 46th, was obviously beyond the pale, but the other half simply demanded accountability, freedom of conscience in secular matters, lack of coercion in religious matters, and local governance of jamaat matters. What did SMB (RA) do? He tried to put down the movement using brutal tactics. He further centralized the administration, with faceless Kothari mullahs running the show in far away towns and cities. Now, on the whims of some Kathari goon, long serving and dedicated members of the jamaat could be replaced with yes-men. Why did SMB (RA) not stop this? Or did he try and fail?

One must acknowledge several good things which SMB (RA) achieved, among which was a revival of construction of new masjids in various places, strengthening of madrassa, renovation of historic sites, etc. Yes, that may be counted as a "Golden Age". However, these brick-and-mortar things count for little when the soul of the Bohras was being degraded, enslaved and put into pathetic bondage of the clergy. In this SMB (RA) failed to check the naked ambition of his brothers and his children, who ran rough shod over him. A telling sign of this was that he was unable, in 50 long years, to openly announce his successor, leaving us this mess to clean up.

Islam is a religion which frees people from human bondage, and encourages us to help needy and poor. I mean, which other religion explicitly asks its adherents to put aside a small amount of their earnings to charity? Of course, Islam also has its violent and dark side, however, these can be understood in context of the early persecution which the Prophet and his successors suffered.

So don't feel depressed! Things will work out in the end, inshallah!

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2503

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:29 pm

Biradar
Very well put.

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2504

Unread post by james » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Biradar wrote: I mean, which other religion explicitly asks its adherents to put aside a small amount of their earnings to charity?
Oh,Are we playing "My God is bigger than your God"? How puerile!

Tzedakah in Judaism.

Tithe in Christianity.

Try not to make a fool of yourself next time.

Ciao.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2505

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:46 pm

Biradar wrote: I personally feel we may be entering a golden age, one in which at least a few thinking people have woken up from their slumber, rudely, I should add, and realized that not all is well with the dawaat higher-ups, even including the da'i himself. Obviously, SMB (RA) was unable to stop his children and bothers from using the dawaat as their own personal purse, to fund their lifestyles of decadence.
Sorry Birader, I cannot bring myself to share your optimism about the golden age. Yes, Khuzema Qutbuddin is in a different league altogether from the semi-literate Mufaddal Saifuddin, but he is still deeply entrenched in the traditions and orthodoxy of the Sayedna Burhanuddin's era. It will take some work to shake him free of the layers of power and glory that has become attached to the seat of the Dai. One reason he is continuing with it could be, I'm guessing, is because he does not want to abruptly break with the SMB's era for fear of losing Bohras who revered him. But this is a long shot. My view is that he is very much invested in the "mutlaq" aspect of the Dai and all the baggage that comes with it. In the administrative and accountability side of things he promises to be fair and open, and that would be a huge improvement, no doubt.

The other thing is that a few thinking Bohras do not a golden age make. The majority of Bohras are still meek, blind and unthinking and we have to thank Sayedna Burahnuddin for that. He allowed Bohras to be robbed of their dignity, brains and of course their money. Mufaddal is finishing off what his father and grandfather started. And he is doing with the style and decadence that Yazeed (as you are wont to say) would be proud of. In the long run, my reading is, that the KQ team will disappear into obscurity and the MS cult will conquer new heights of mindless extravagance and human worship until it crashes under the weight of its own decadence. Don't expect Bohras to do anything. Well-fed slaves do not revolt.

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2506

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:08 pm

james wrote:
Biradar wrote: I mean, which other religion explicitly asks its adherents to put aside a small amount of their earnings to charity?
Oh,Are we playing "My God is bigger than your God"? How puerile!

Tzedakah in Judaism.

Tithe in Christianity.

Try not to make a fool of yourself next time.

Ciao.
:shock: Really, Mr. james, you live up to your reputation for being a senseless troll. What is the meaning of this post of yours? Which god do you follow? Wait, don't say it, we know it already: [DELETED] these days also known as Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin. I know that for you, giving him and his family money counts as charity. Good, feed the golden calf, but it will surely take you to hell. Enjoy!

bohra_manus
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2507

Unread post by bohra_manus » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:07 pm

Humsafar wrote:
Biradar wrote: I personally feel we may be entering a golden age, one in which at least a few thinking people have woken up from their slumber, rudely, I should add, and realized that not all is well with the dawaat higher-ups, even including the da'i himself. Obviously, SMB (RA) was unable to stop his children and bothers from using the dawaat as their own personal purse, to fund their lifestyles of decadence.
Sorry Birader, I cannot bring myself to share your optimism about the golden age. Yes, Khuzema Qutbuddin is in a different league altogether from the semi-literate Mufaddal Saifuddin, but he is still deeply entrenched in the traditions and orthodoxy of the Sayedna Burhanuddin's era. It will take some work to shake him free of the layers of power and glory that has become attached to the seat of the Dai. One reason he is continuing with it could be, I'm guessing, is because he does not want to abruptly break with the SMB's era for fear of losing Bohras who revered him. But this is a long shot. My view is that he is very much invested in the "mutlaq" aspect of the Dai and all the baggage that comes with it. In the administrative and accountability side of things he promises to be fair and open, and that would be a huge improvement, no doubt.

The other thing is that a few thinking Bohras do not a golden age make. The majority of Bohras are still meek, blind and unthinking and we have to thank Sayedna Burahnuddin for that. He allowed Bohras to be robbed of their dignity, brains and of course their money. Mufaddal is finishing off what his father and grandfather started. And he is doing with the style and decadence that Yazeed (as you are wont to say) would be proud of. In the long run, my reading is, that the KQ team will disappear into obscurity and the MS cult will conquer new heights of mindless extravagance and human worship until it crashes under the weight of its own decadence. Don't expect Bohras to do anything. Well-fed slaves do not revolt.
Well said Br. Humsafar

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2508

Unread post by Biradar » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:40 am

Humsafar wrote:
Biradar wrote: I personally feel we may be entering a golden age, one in which at least a few thinking people have woken up from their slumber, rudely, I should add, and realized that not all is well with the dawaat higher-ups, even including the da'i himself. Obviously, SMB (RA) was unable to stop his children and bothers from using the dawaat as their own personal purse, to fund their lifestyles of decadence.
Sorry Birader, I cannot bring myself to share your optimism about the golden age.
...
The other thing is that a few thinking Bohras do not a golden age make.
...
Bolding mine. Humsafar: Yes, I partially agree with you. Perhaps it is too optimistic to expect a major change to occur in large number of people. However, change usually starts small. In the last one year we have seen mayor changes, with a schism, clear distinction between the two parties and increasing fanaticism from DMMS camp. I also see that at present the schism has achieved, in a short span, what the progressive movement could not achieve in several decades. That is: the clear and unambiguous proof, for common Bohras, that not all is well among the Kotharis, and has not been for a long time. Even though the progressives tried to make this case, the impact on the general Bohra population was not high. The schism has been a traumatic event for many, and even many who follow DMMS, now have personal doubts about the system. I have already elaborated on this before, so no need to repeat.

Second point: if you look at the history of the progressive movement, at least the intellectual aspects of it, only a small number of people made major and lasting contributions. In particular, the single most intellectual influence has been from Dr. Engineer. This is also true for other intellectual movements: only a few people make contributions. So it can be with what is happening now. It is possible that everything will evaporate one day, but that day is not here yet. Hence, I remain optimistic.

Of course, I accept that I may be wrong, and at the end of the day it may be all vaporware. DMMS will certainly become a worse tyrant as time goes on, and his followers will have to feed SEDs every three or four months, and his pomp and decadence will increase, and bloat to hideous levels. That is a likely outcome, but meanwhile lets remain positive and keep the struggle going, in whatever small way we can.

alivasan
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2509

Unread post by alivasan » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:45 am

asad wrote:Vice Chancellor of AMU visited SMS and offered Chancellorship to him like his father and Grand Father. God knows how much bohras had to pay to purchase the ceremonial post to quench the ego of SMS.
Quite True. Its all been paid from peoples money.This are sahi sail who come to beg dressed in white robe in ultra luxurious cars and jets

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2510

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:42 am

Today had the lucky chance of going to Chelum waaz of Imam Hussain A.S.
Waaz started 10 am in Dubai and ended at 2:00 pm. Friday prayers were two minute thing. I even did it incorrect as there was no place to stand to do proper sujood. I really do not understand what kind of wali of Allah dai is who is careless of prayers of thousands of mumineen.i was present there and stating what I saw ! Even when u leave home at 9 am and namaz is done at 2:00 pm it is natural that most of the people are not it wazu. but we prayed !
Aunties fought like anything.
All the drama revolves around SMB urus and Imam Hussain A.S and mention of dushman as ibless was also done.At one hand SMS said that Momin bhai ne takleef na pohchawo and on the other dushman is ibless.
I am confused now when a person has dawoodi bohra roots and they want to leave it where do they go? They become shia that has again quite wrong practices or they become sunni ? But love of Ahyle bait is v imp and for that u need to listen to majdlis. So where do we stand ?

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2511

Unread post by Biradar » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:09 am

WiththenameofAllah wrote:Today had the lucky chance of going to Chelum waaz of Imam Hussain A.S. Friday prayers were two minute thing. I even did it incorrect as there was no place to stand to do proper sujood. I really do not understand what kind of wali of Allah dai is who is careless of prayers of thousands of mumineen
Lucky? :shock: How do you define "lucky"? Making a mockery of namaaz?
WiththenameofAllah wrote: All the drama revolves around SMB urus and Imam Hussain A.S and mention of dushman as ibless was also done.At one hand SMS said that Momin bhai ne takleef na pohchawo and on the other dushman is ibless.
I am confused now when a person has dawoodi bohra roots and they want to leave it where do they go? They become shia that has again quite wrong practices or they become sunni ? But love of Ahyle bait is v imp and for that u need to listen to majdlis. So where do we stand ?
DMMS will do anything which he find increases his power and wealth. That is it. That is where he stands. So, if it increases the fanaticism among his followers, he will curse and yell, doing lanaat. It does not matter if he says two contradictory things in the same breath, as for him the bottom like is power and wealth, pomp and glory.

My suggestion to you is not to avail of such "lucky chances" any more, and be a good human being, not fund the decadent lifestyle of DMMS and do what your heart tells you to.

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2512

Unread post by ponga bhori » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:24 am

WiththenameofAllah wrote:"
"."................... But love of Ahyle bait is v imp and for that u need to listen to majdlis. So where do we stand ?

From where did you get that , please let me know.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2513

Unread post by SBM » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:25 am

Lucky? :shock: How do you define "lucky"? Making a mockery of namaaz?
Please go easy on her she was SARCASTIC

WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2514

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:23 pm

SBM wrote:
Lucky? :shock: How do you define "lucky"? Making a mockery of namaaz?
Please go easy on her she was SARCASTIC
Yes brother, it was sarcasm ! Namaz is second pillar and first thing we will be questioned of is NAMAZ. I did improper namaz today :( and that also of Jumaa. Bohras have gone crazy ! If I really get a chance to run i will In Sha Allah.

Brother ponga bohri ? I mean that u need to know abt life of Ahyle bait. I like listening to bayan of Ahyle baits, a kind of majdlis setting. You can also sit home and read abt then but in this busy world we get v little time. So a kind of place where we follow islam and our muslims following Quran and Sunnah and are attached to Ahyle bait excluding all the game of wealth and power.

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2515

Unread post by ponga bhori » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:45 pm

WiththenameofAllah wrote:...................I am confused now when a person has dawoodi bohra roots and they want to leave it where do they go? They become shia that has again quite wrong practices or they become sunni ? But love of Ahyle bait is v imp and for that u need to listen to majdlis. So where do we stand ?
I went through the same thought process " want to leave where to go" . I went Sunni. So did many others on this forum.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2516

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:52 pm

Be with Malik-e-yomiddeen. Shia, Sunny and Bhoras are all corporations.

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohri SMS Duniya

#2517

Unread post by ponga bhori » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:24 pm

seeker110 wrote:Be with Malik-e-yomiddeen. Shia, Sunny and Bhoras are all corporations.
True. Allah, The Quran, Mohamed SAW, The Sunnats.
Everything else I say is history.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

bad accident of kuwait amil.

#2518

Unread post by think » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:33 pm

a few weeks back , I so a clip of the kuwait amil in a major car accident. Can any one from kuwait share information.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: bad accident of kuwait amil.

#2519

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:41 pm

That was Syed ul Kher, the saala of Muffy who met with an accident in Kuwait.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: bad accident of kuwait amil.

#2520

Unread post by think » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:09 pm

shukran mr. Ghulam-e- Mohammed. Was he badly injured? Was it an inside plot. [DELETED]