Dawoodi Bohra Forum

zinger wrote:
There is a difference between an official sanction and an over-zealous aamil saying it.
This will never be made officially because even they know the wrath that can fall on them
SMSes and whatsapp messages and emails referring to Dai as Kaaba and all is fine because these are circulated internally but let them declare it officially and see what will happen then

zinger wrote: This is an outright and blatant lie. the pics can be in the halls or other areas that are outside/above/besides/under the main Masjid area but not in it. like the hall for instance.

zinger wrote: also, i have often seen people saying how the masjid has pictures of the Dai.This is an outright and blatant lie. the pics can be in the halls or other areas that are outside/above/besides/under the main Masjid area but not in it. like the hall for instance.

humanbeing wrote:

zinger wrote:There is a difference between an official sanction and an over-zealous aamil saying it.
This will never be made officially because even they know the wrath that can fall on them.

Which world you are in bro ! Kothari Amils and mullahs have time and again preached that Dai is the haqiqi kaba and kissing his photo has similar sawaab to that of kissing hajr-e-aswad. How more official can it get !

And an over zealous amil cannot utter such blasphemy without his master’s instructions. The haqiqi kaba theory is an official message spread by present Kothari clergy. Apart from regular bayaans, there was a special sabak session wherein the amil exclusively explained this haqiqi kaba theory. The explanation is fantastically blasphemous !

WiththenameofAllah wrote:

zinger wrote:
There is a difference between an official sanction and an over-zealous aamil saying it.
This will never be made officially because even they know the wrath that can fall on them
SMSes and whatsapp messages and emails referring to Dai as Kaaba and all is fine because these are circulated internally but let them declare it officially and see what will happen then

Ok So if it is not official it is right and SMS the guider to the truth is not even willing to stop this shirk ? Take example of Mola Ali (A.S) what was his role to guide people to Allah to develop taqwa. If you say these sms and messages as they are not official but still correct then the people sending these should be outcast.

Yes, i agree it is completely wrong and even more unfortunate that no one is doing a damn about it...

zinger wrote: This is an outright and blatant lie. the pics can be in the halls or other areas that are outside/above/besides/under the main Masjid area but not in it. like the hall for instance.

Ok no pics of SMS i agree too in masjids but what about videos of SMS . I have spent some time in a masjid in Pakistan where SMS video was on projectors and people will pray nicely in front of it.

humanbeing wrote:

zinger wrote: also, i have often seen people saying how the masjid has pictures of the Dai.This is an outright and blatant lie. the pics can be in the halls or other areas that are outside/above/besides/under the main Masjid area but not in it. like the hall for instance.

Correct, masjids cannot have anyone’s pictures. Also there are several other rules that kothar violates :

Masjids have a video projection screen mounted before Qiblaah, so when A/V are relayed, people are sitting on masala or otherwise facing the Qiblah and going all emotionally spiritual raising their Namaste palms in devotion, respect, love or worship whatever you want to call it.

Particularly in Kuwait Markaz, there are many video projections screens, where they have kept SMS photo as a screen saver, you get the drift, photo frames are replaced with digital projections.

Disagree. before the namaz, atleast in our jamat, the screen is rolled up so that one is looking only at the kibla nothing else. and if the screen cannot be rolled up, then the projector goes blank so nothing is telecast. sometimes, the immamat prayer of whichever masjid the AV was about is kept on. nothing wrong in that im sure


Any place where namaaz is offered regularly is similar as masjid. Therefore it must not hold any particular pictures.

Agree. but no one prays in the halls, the passages etc. so... understand what im saying.


Many markaz, serves meals at the place where namaaz is performed, in my information, this is also not allowed as per Islamic understanding. Common sense also says, food and drink shall not be served, we have seen many fist fights and disappointments over spilled “chai” on white masalllahs and bhaari ridaas ! people are also ill mannered and leave the rubbish and left overs at the same place where they are praying such as date seeds, tea cups, wrappers, water bottles.

that is possible because a markaz does not have enough space. if it had a large enough space then a masjid could be built there.
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Sorry for diversion of topic here :
What I wish to convey is ; All these bravado and sense of superiority of being better muslims than others is a farce. Kothar does not prioritize instilling etiquettes as similar to that of collecting funds or force submission (kadambosi). Few years back there was a militant style enforcement of beard and topi by Kothari amils, mullahs and sheikhs. Ridiculing people in public and creating ruckus in nikaahs, misaaq, nisbat and even fatihaa.

agreed. it is a sad state of affair. learn to be a better human being, then a muslim, then a shia, then a fatimid shia and then a dawoodi bohra

Under guidances of present Kothari mullahs, bohras are becoming dangerously hypocrites inwardly and outwardly, there is lack of compassion for own brethren as well as for outsiders. Like masters like followers, bohras have become abdes. Sadaka, nazar mukaam, kaffarat all acts of individual charity is now channeled to kothar. Bohras are deprived of the psychological benefits of helping someone , this deprivation is making bohras into insensitive, self+ kothar centered zombies.

There is a immense lack of basic etiquettes and compassion towards our very own in markaz and masjids and jamatkhanas.
Men and women are refused seating in ganged up thaals of friends and relatives.
Stealing footwears is an extreme inconvenience
Littering in masjids and markaz
Above are common misbehaviours of people, but the kothar that claims the superiority breeding, can take strict efforts to instill a sense of etiquettes similar to the takwa and aqeeda they have planted for donating monies to their coffers.

Changing the people’s misbehavior to compassionate etiquettes would be a real test of their walayat and not throwing cash bags. But does kothar want that ? they encourage hooligan behavior themselves. Shamefully they take pride in showing the madness as walwala, further encouraging such hooliganism.

zinger wrote: by official, i mean a written farman from kothar/badri mahal/saifee mahal/vazarat etc or whatever is the official office

humanbeing wrote: . However this haqiqi kaba theory is official from Dai’s office.

alam wrote: Be it known that misaals from Dawat-e-Hadiya to jamaats worldwide were conceived, written, edited and mulled over by miscreants working under guise of khidmat under Burhanuddin Maula's reign. . . rarely did Aqa Maula himself mull over and dictate text of misaal sharifa.

when you say something is Official from Dai's Office - be aware that Dai's office was hijacked by self-interest from a small group of bullys and big wigs in the likes of Kalimuddin sahib, Hakimuddin Saheb and BJ Mudreka, etc etc., starting 20-30 years ago. USed to be they couldn't and wouldn't manipulate Abbasbhai sahib and Shabbirbhai sahib until after wafaat. Now they are under siege, like the rest of Saifee mahal and badri mahal who are fearful of their lives and families if they dare to question SMS. If you think the regular mumin is under pressure from kothar,, you are clueless about the reality. Even the word "Kothar" these days is meaningless, because there really is no "one" color in Kothar... there are many colors and hues.

level_headed wrote:deleted

alam wrote:In the name of Kothar, everyone gets lumped into one category from the POV of the ills that face the dawoodi bohra community. It is time for people to openly stay in touch with the ground reality in today's changing world and go beyond what is immediately perceptible, to connecting the dots, becoming a keener observer of human behavior surrounding them, and to question and not take things at face value. There is simply no way that in today's ground reality there is ONE "Kothar" - there is way too much complexity and turmoil in the "home of Kothar" itself. There is unease and tension and turmoil within, and people within the inner echelons are trying to figure out how to destroy the evil empire they find themselves in. They realize that they can sell their skills, their loyalty but at the end of the day, they can't sell their soul to something their conscience can't agree with. There are a more than a handful of KOTHARIs who are looking at their khidmat (aka employment) in a completely different light.
I am simply asking forum writers to become sensitized to the issue that there are many in Kothar who don't see eye to eye with SMS policy, philosophy and tactics, and that there are many different facets to Kothar than is readily comprehensible to the innocent bystander. when in doubt or in trouble, they invoke the power and authority of al-vazaarat, but at the end of the day, they find themselves grappling with the same soul-searching of distinguishing between right from wrong, truth vs falsehood, greed vs compassion.
There is no need to rejoice either, because as I said before, their hands are tied in chains that are far tighter and firmer in its clasp than on the ordinary citizens of this nation of Bohrahood.

level_headed wrote:deleted

zinger wrote: No body prays in front of the screen. maybe one or 2 people might be completing some namaz but that does not mean that they are praying namaz. if the entire jamat does it, then tell me. but maybe they are completing sunnat namaz, who knows. best not to cast stones unless you are completely blameless. remember what Christ said


It happens in developing countries but not in Dubai as here rules are very strict and there is a shurta in the masjid keeping an eye on all the activities.Other things like the books of duas that have pictures of mola on the cover page are also in front of women when they are praying , is not mola considered a na mehram to women? How about praising Mola in the masjids and haath jor k kaharay hojana.. These are some v basic things that we all see each day in the masjid the change can only happen if we start noticing these things how much they are against the principles of Tawheed.

bohrabhai wrote:

IMG-20140927-WA0012.jpg

LEGAL NOTICE

humanbeing wrote: Sorry for diversion of topic here :
What I wish to convey is ; All these bravado and sense of superiority of being better muslims than others is a farce. Kothar does not prioritize instilling etiquettes as similar to that of collecting funds or force submission (kadambosi). Few years back there was a militant style enforcement of beard and topi by Kothari amils, mullahs and sheikhs. Ridiculing people in public and creating ruckus in nikaahs, misaaq, nisbat and even fatihaa.

Under guidances of present Kothari mullahs, bohras are becoming dangerously hypocrites inwardly and outwardly, there is lack of compassion for own brethren as well as for outsiders. Like masters like followers, bohras have become abdes. Sadaka, nazar mukaam, kaffarat all acts of individual charity is now channeled to kothar. Bohras are deprived of the psychological benefits of helping someone , this deprivation is making bohras into insensitive, self+ kothar centered zombies.

There is a immense lack of basic etiquettes and compassion towards our very own in markaz and masjids and jamatkhanas.
Men and women are refused seating in ganged up thaals of friends and relatives.
Stealing footwears is an extreme inconvenience
Littering in masjids and markaz
Above are common misbehaviours of people, but the kothar that claims the superiority breeding, can take strict efforts to instill a sense of etiquettes similar to the takwa and aqeeda they have planted for donating monies to their coffers.

Changing the people’s misbehavior to compassionate etiquettes would be a real test of their walayat and not throwing cash bags. But does kothar want that ? they encourage hooligan behavior themselves. Shamefully they take pride in showing the madness as walwala, further encouraging such hooliganism.

chocoman wrote:Bro GM, I hope you're doing well, I just want to know from where did you get this message, induced by Ali Hussain uncle. I know him very well although he doesn't know me at all, since I live in a different country.