New Zarih for Imam Husain

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zinger
Posts: 2206
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#61

Unread post by zinger » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:57 am

Muslim First wrote:
Zinger
i have mentioned it earlier too that for the progs, the idea is "mera dushman ka dushman mera dost". Which is why, you will often find them addressing Muslim First and Anajmi as bhai, but us, derogatorily as idiots etc.
It is common curtsy that a Muslim calls another Muslim Brother. I am sure neither your culture, Madhab nor religious leaders has taught you.
Learn from Brother progticide. He has learned manners, to hate and abuse since he was in his mothers womb.
Please call anything you want.
Wasalaam

Sir, this mail is not directed to you. See no reason for you to interfere in a mail directed to my fellow Dawoodi Bohras

As for curtousey and culture and manners, lets not compare your culture to ours. The difference is glaringly obvious for the world to see.

zinger
Posts: 2206
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#62

Unread post by zinger » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:07 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote:Forget what us happening to us Brother, but look at yourself.
You are beginning to show signs of drifting away from the Shia Dawoodi Bohra faith and more towards the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabi school of thought.
I would suggest that you follow in the footsteps of Ali Abbas and Anajmi and convert and join Sunni Muslims.
Please understand, i dont mean to insult you, i am just saying that it seems that you feel that they are right and we are wrong, so you should leave us and join them.
seriously, think about it. i write this with no hatred in my heart for you, just best wishes that you be happy, if that is where you think the truth lies
Zinger

Please help me understand the spirituality content of placing antiquities and pieces of mausoleum and zarees for commoners to revere and make it a medium of expression of piety, respect and love.

Commoners look upto priestly leaders for guidance in matters of faith and piety. They follow with confidence and trust teachings imparted by these leaders. One should see how the commoner bohra revere this articles excitingly and express their wishes and desires, piety etc.

Bohras are drifting away from common sense and humanity and surrounding themselves with material articles to express their devotion.

Mindsets of bohra are changing into very inclusive cult, which is becoming dangerous day by day. More of such superficial dependence is making the grip of priestly class on bohra commoner tighter.

Kothar has masterminded emotional control by creating layers and layers of emotional vents to express devotions to keep commoner bohra busy. Fully exploiting human tendency to resort to idol worshipping.

Rights and wrong we can discuss and I m open to debates. I write with common sense, I dnt have references or authentic sources to back up complex exploitative practices. With common sense I m ready to change my opinion. So help me !

If building magnificent Zarees with gold and silver was so important, then why were the zarees and mausoleums not made grand by previous Imams or Dais ?

In my knowledge most of the Mausoleums in India and Yemen or elsewhere were refurbished renovated to grand scale by 51st & 52nd Dai. Personality’s grave on which these tombs stand;
Would their respect in eyes of bohra decrease if they were not made grand ?
Imagine, it would have far more better effect, if those graves were kept simple as an example for people to learn, that we all return to maker simple.
Would it be better to impart the knowledge, message and principles those personalities lived and died for ?

Schemes and Projects of human development can be started in the name of those personalities so much respected and loved. Hopefully not worshipped. Like starting “n” number of scholarships, medical treatments, entrepreneur, housing, clothing, etc.

I prefer to remain human with common sense rather than tag myself with abde sunni wahaabi etc. it doesn’t make a difference what I m called, what matters is how I have spent the wealth I earned. Emotional satisfaction of making something work be it making an electric circuit or help a life is enough to be at peace spiritually.

Although leaders advise in all respect, but human mind has a tendency to focus on easy tasks, they find focusing their devotion much easier to express standing in front of Marbled tile, gold door, silver window, marbled grave to wail and express their wishes, desires and piety to go home content that they have done their part of being righteous bohra Muslim.
\

My friend, i will not say that i know or have answers to what you seek. i never said i will justify what we are doing.

all i am saying is that if you see so much wrong in our practice, then why not just leave and join the Sunni faith. Ali Abbas and Anajmi have made the choice, so its not difficult.

you seem to see wrong in everything that we do, from our practices, to our culture to our ceremonies, to our traditions, so by that logic, you see nothing right in our community at all, so why be a part of us at all

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#63

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:43 am

Anajmi is from the US. It is best if somebody who can trace him. He should be reported to the US authorities. We have a ten year historical evidence of his venom against Shias and our community in particular.
He is always trying to instigate us ad put his beleifs over to us with the help of MF. Can any body from the US help us reporet his activities ?

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#64

Unread post by pheonix » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:07 am

mnoorani wrote:Anajmi is from the US. It is best if somebody who can trace him. He should be reported to the US authorities. We have a ten year historical evidence of his venom against Shias and our community in particular.
He is always trying to instigate us ad put his beleifs over to us with the help of MF. Can any body from the US help us reporet his activities ?
No use.He will turn tail and return to the mountains of Tora Bora with his brethren.
Also you must be careful. It is quite easy for them to bomb you and your family into smithereens.
Idol worshippers are wajib-ul-Qatl anyway.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#65

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:37 am

zinger wrote:
Muslim First wrote: It is common curtsy that a Muslim calls another Muslim Brother. I am sure neither your culture, Madhab nor religious leaders has taught you.
Learn from Brother progticide. He has learned manners, to hate and abuse since he was in his mothers womb.
Please call anything you want.
Wasalaam

Sir, this mail is not directed to you. See no reason for you to interfere in a mail directed to my fellow Dawoodi Bohras

As for curtousey and culture and manners, lets not compare your culture to ours. The difference is glaringly obvious for the world to see.
My comment here

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 50#p103450

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#66

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:46 am

porus
While I would not use the inelegant language used by MM Bukhari, I have sympathy with the underlying sentiment that he expresses. Over the past ten years many discussions pertaining to Bohras have been blown off-course by the two Wahhabies.
Br Shaikh porus Saheb, AS
I am sure you must have heard this
" 100 chuhe khakar Billi Hujj Ko chali"
You have taken every opportunity to abuse 2 of us. Including this.
Wasalaam

Do not worry about Bukhari's language. Sticks and stone will not break my bone.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#67

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:18 am

pheonix wrote:
mnoorani wrote:Anajmi is from the US. It is best if somebody who can trace him. He should be reported to the US authorities. We have a ten year historical evidence of his venom against Shias and our community in particular.
He is always trying to instigate us ad put his beleifs over to us with the help of MF. Can any body from the US help us reporet his activities ?
No use.He will turn tail and return to the mountains of Tora Bora with his brethren.
Also you must be careful. It is quite easy for them to bomb you and your family into smithereens.
Idol worshippers are wajib-ul-Qatl anyway.

I think that this will work , Does Anybody from the US know how to report these two people.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#68

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:34 am

I think that this will work , Does Anybody from the US know how to report these two people.
I am very well known in Islamic community. I am sure Islamophobe jewish group and FBI have looked into my activities for my involvement with certain projects.

Please make my day.
Wasalaam

canadian
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#69

Unread post by canadian » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:39 am

mnoorani wrote:
pheonix wrote: No use.He will turn tail and return to the mountains of Tora Bora with his brethren.
Also you must be careful. It is quite easy for them to bomb you and your family into smithereens.
Idol worshippers are wajib-ul-Qatl anyway.

I think that this will work , Does Anybody from the US know how to report these two people.
To report to whom? To report what? That they are writing abuses on this forum? If you do not like what these gentlemen write, then don't read or don't respond and they will then not go further. I personally do not agree with them in any way; therefore I do not respond to their posts. However, I believe in freedom of expression and would defend their right to express their views.

MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#70

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:48 am

mnoorani wrote:Anajmi is from the US. It is best if somebody who can trace him. He should be reported to the US authorities. We have a ten year historical evidence of his venom against Shias and our community in particular.
He is always trying to instigate us ad put his beleifs over to us with the help of MF. Can any body from the US help us reporet his activities ?
do we really need such authorities for these mouse?

I think lets just open a separate thread sign the petition to ban these guys, and hand over it to admin to decide what they want to do further. thats it.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#71

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:06 am

Good idea.
Let us open a new thread asking to ban Anajmi MF. If that works then Ok otherwise they should be reported in the country that they live. I hear so much about USA's Anti hate speech laws and what not.

MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#72

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:11 am

mnoorani wrote:Good idea.
Let us open a new thread asking to ban Anajmi MF. If that works then Ok otherwise they should be reported in the country that they live. I hear so much about USA's Anti hate speech laws and what not.
please open it i will be first to sign it.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#73

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:24 am

Either anajmi's sting has gotten sharper over the years or people these days are extremely thin skinned.

When asswipes like you haven't been able to do anything about the real criminals in your community, you seriously think you can do anything about one anajmi who hasn't done anything other than speak the truth?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#74

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:09 am

zinger wrote:My friend, i will not say that i know or have answers to what you seek. i never said i will justify what we are doing.

all i am saying is that if you see so much wrong in our practice, then why not just leave and join the Sunni faith. Ali Abbas and Anajmi have made the choice, so its not difficult.

you seem to see wrong in everything that we do, from our practices, to our culture to our ceremonies, to our traditions, so by that logic, you see nothing right in our community at all, so why be a part of us at all
Zinger

Why are you on this forum ? if nothing is wrong with our community. What does it matter to you ! ignore the posts ! Enjoy the practices, culture, tradition, ceremonies !

I don’t really have to go anywhere or join anyone else. I very much live freely and with everyone. I don’t believe to be tagged as bohra sunni shia or wahabi.

I belong to bohra community by virtue of birth and upbringing. And will continue to remain so. Kothar is just a corrupt tax collector ! not the owner of my life and death !

Morever I m here to explore, if our previous dai followed same practices which are under discussion here. And to my and your surprise, below listed practices which are so called considered as bohra culture and tradition are not even recommended by Muallims I met in sabak.

Mama Mushaalo, kaathi peetvo, haldf peethi, maamero, tervo, etc.

If they were part of bohra cultural ceremonies, are they included in the Rasme-saifee Nikaah ceremonies ??

Did previous Dai, build grand Tombs ? Did previous Imam build grand tombs of Imam hussain or themselves. Did previous imams who lived like a king, where are their palaces ? in Egypt - yemen - Tunisia – Syria or elsewhere ?

Why don’t we have pictures of previous Dais available ? why are their pictures not presented / displayed anywhere in our Kothari jamaat properties ?

Why is maraaz museoum only dedicated to 52nd dai ? why not glorious history, culture, tradition of entire bohra - faitmi – ismaili – daawodi faith antiquities on display for present and future generation to learn (not worship) about bohras.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#75

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Muslim First wrote:
I think that this will work , Does Anybody from the US know how to report these two people.
I am very well known in Islamic community. I am sure Islamophobe jewish group and FBI have looked into my activities for my involvement with certain projects.

Please make my day.
Wasalaam
If thats so then give me your name ,I will forward it.

SBM
Posts: 6508
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#76

Unread post by SBM » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:14 pm

mnoorani wrote:
Muslim First wrote: I am very well known in Islamic community. I am sure Islamophobe jewish group and FBI have looked into my activities for my involvement with certain projects.

Please make my day.
Wasalaam
If thats so then give me your name ,I will forward it.
Br Noraani
I think this thing is getting too far. First of all neither Anajmi or MF has broken any US laws, as a matter of fact they are more tampered as compared to what is said in our Markaz in USA. MF is very active in Muslim Community in Boston and has worked along with Shia and Dawoodi Bohras in Boston area, Being a part of New England Islamic Society and with CAIR I am sure he has been vetted out by US authorities and I am sure he is under watch all the time, I know it because I regularly meet with US Attorney and FBI SAC in my area and I know I am being watched
Asking Admin to ban Anajmi and MF is futile since if Admin start doing it then some one will ask to ban me or AZ or GM because they did not like it
The best advice to please cool down, the reason there is so much blood shed in Muslim Ummah is that we lack tolerance
I would request MF and Anajmi to please be careful with their words, It does not serve any purpose if topic deviates in Shia-Sunni on every thread.
May Allah give us all tawfiq to respect each other.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#77

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:59 pm

This 'Zarih' issue is being taken too far. Willful donations by followers of Imam Hussain (a.s.) should not be looked with suspicion as it is being given out of sheer love, belief and reverance although it is a highly debatable issue when it comes to the teachings of the same revered souls. The irony is that the ones who are in favour of such grandeur and extravaganza are fully aware that these revered souls had always shunned materialistic pleasures all through their lives although they could have lived a pompous life if at all they wished for it. Hence by a simple observation of their worldly lives one can conclude that they would have never approved of such a materialistic show after their demise.

In the view of some followers this is a way of showing the greatness of these souls to this world. By presuming so, they are on the contrary undermining their greatness as their teachings, their lives and their piety are enough proof of their greatness. The mazar of fatema-tus-zehra (a.s.) is made of normal bricks and stones without even a shade over it, does this in any manner undermine her greatness ? Does a gold and precious stones studded zarih elevate the position of Imam Hussain (a.s.) to that of Khatun-e-Jannat, Janabe Fatema-tus-zehra (a.s.) ? Great people are remembered by their deeds, their contribution to humanity, their status in the eyes of Allah (swt), their sacrifices in the path of Allah (swt) and their teachings which should take precedence over materialistic show in their afterlife.

The expensive zarih making exercise is a big business for religious leaders which the followers of Ahle-bayt fail to realise. It is very sad that inspite of kothar accumulating tonnes of gold in the name of these holy souls by emotionally manipulating their beliefs and love for Ahle-bayt, the bohras still propagate such acts and keep on filling their coffers. The glaring example of the tonnes of gold collected in the name of Fatema-tus-Zehra's zarih, which is nowhere near sight has also not opened the eyes of devoted bohras. Their leaders delibarately stress on gold zarihs for the torchbearers of Islam which is a ploy to justify the grandeur and extravaganza of their own dais, more importantly the raudat tahera which is an exhibition of pomp and show.

It is also wrong to equate the mazars of Ahle-bayt with idols and label the followers as idol worshippers because although these mazars are revered and respected immensely but the prayers are always directed towards Allah (swt) as He alone is the most Supreme and above everything.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#78

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:24 pm

It is also wrong to equate the mazars of Ahle-bayt with idols and label the followers as idol worshippers because although these mazars are revered and respected immensely but the prayers are always directed towards Allah (swt) as He alone is the most Supreme and above everything.
Bro GM,

This is the exact same thing that the pagans told to the prophet Mohammad (saw) about their own idols 14 centuries ago and Allah recorded it in his book.

"If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth, "they would say, "The almighty, the omniscient. "
Chapter AI Zukhruf 43:9

Al-Muizz
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#79

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Muslim First wrote:
I think that this will work , Does Anybody from the US know how to report these two people.
I am very well known in Islamic community. I am sure Islamophobe jewish group and FBI have looked into my activities for my involvement with certain projects.

Please make my day.
Wasalaam
Another arrogant man...I'm well known. I'm in the US, and yet I've never heard of you? How, pray tell, is it possible? More hot air from your rear end, old man. Go get some medication for that, it really stinks!

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#80

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:31 am

Muslim first or Anajmi for whatever their views may be should NOT be censored.

The progressive movement can only benefit from tolerance and diversity.

We have to be careful that certain abdes do not hijack this forum and Impose their practices like barat.

I do not think anything anajmi or mf has said crosses the line.

People who regularly blog can self regulate and overtime find how to work within the boundary of freedom of expression and respect.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#81

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:04 am

Bohra spring wrote:Muslim first or Anajmi for whatever their views may be should NOT be censored.

The progressive movement can only benefit from tolerance and diversity.

We have to be careful that certain abdes do not hijack this forum and Impose their practices like barat.

I do not think anything anajmi or mf has said crosses the line.

People who regularly blog can self regulate and overtime find how to work within the boundary of freedom of expression and respect.
JAK brother
I will not post comments in this forum Bohras and reform
My comments will appear in other forums like this
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 02#p103502

Br anajmi is ex Bohra and he may do whatever he wishes.

Wasalaam

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#82

Unread post by mnoorani » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:49 am

Muslim First wrote:
Bohra spring wrote:Muslim first or Anajmi for whatever their views may be should NOT be censored.

The progressive movement can only benefit from tolerance and diversity.

We have to be careful that certain abdes do not hijack this forum and Impose their practices like barat.

I do not think anything anajmi or mf has said crosses the line.

People who regularly blog can self regulate and overtime find how to work within the boundary of freedom of expression and respect.
JAK brother
I will not post comments in this forum Bohras and reform
My comments will appear in other forums like this
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 02#p103502

Br anajmi is ex Bohra and he may do whatever he wishes.

Wasalaam
MF's recent post on the same forum ,within 24 hours of this commnet ,shows his unbearable hatred towards Shias and he portrays himslf as something else. As Long as these people will not allow others to practice their faith without intrference, there will be more and more volunteers for Taliban and the likes. It is either their interpretation of Islam or death ! PLUS HE BOASTS TO BE WELL KNOWN IN THE US,YET MAKES SUCH COMMENT UNDER SECRECY.

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#83

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:12 pm

Seems more like Ahlebait bashing than Shia bashing. Dai bashing is due to their closeness with Bhoras i.e friends , family or inter faith marriage.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#84

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:55 pm

MF's recent post on the same forum ,within 24 hours of this commnet ,shows his unbearable hatred towards Shias and he portrays himslf as something else. As Long as these people will not allow others to practice their faith without intrference, there will be more and more volunteers for Taliban and the likes. It is either their interpretation of Islam or death ! PLUS HE BOASTS TO BE WELL KNOWN IN THE US,YET MAKES SUCH COMMENT UNDER SECRECY
Do you understand "go fly kite"?

Wasalaam

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#85

Unread post by mnoorani » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:51 am

A MF
"JAK brother

I will not post comments in this forum Bohras and reform

My comments will appear in other forums like this

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7733&p=103502#p103502"


Forget what I understand, It shows here that you don't understand your own promises. Hatred towards Ahle bAit and their bashing,will lead you no where.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#86

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:00 pm

Muslim First wrote:
MF's recent post on the same forum ,within 24 hours of this commnet ,shows his unbearable hatred towards Shias and he portrays himslf as something else. As Long as these people will not allow others to practice their faith without intrference, there will be more and more volunteers for Taliban and the likes. It is either their interpretation of Islam or death ! PLUS HE BOASTS TO BE WELL KNOWN IN THE US,YET MAKES SUCH COMMENT UNDER SECRECY
My post had nothing to do with Shia hate. My post has to do with Islam. If a post by anybody uses half Ayas, half Ahadith then you will find my post in any forums.

Now "go fly kite".

Wasalaam

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#87

Unread post by mnoorani » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:27 pm

Muslim First wrote:
Muslim First wrote:
My post had nothing to do with Shia hate. My post has to do with Islam. If a post by anybody uses half Ayas, half Ahadith then you will find my post in any forums.

Now "go fly kite".

Take your hatefull wahhabi rants to Talibans, it will be more appreciated there.

Wasalaam

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#88

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:40 pm

Mnoorani

Who cares what you say. I do not.

Again "Go fly kite" for the last time

Peace and Wasalaam

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#89

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:38 pm

Bigger they are harder they fall.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: New Zarih for Imam Husain

#90

Unread post by mnoorani » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:37 am

Muslim First wrote:Mnoorani

Who cares what you say. I do not.

Again "Go fly kite" for the last time

Peace and Wasalaam
You have lied on the forum time and again. Yet you will not be able to conceal your disgust at shias and the Ahle Bait.