A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

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SBM
Posts: 6466
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#1

Unread post by SBM » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:34 am

There is an increase traffic on this website from both side of spectrum. From the posting it seems there are many from the younger generation who visit the Markaz just to follow their parents without learning anything
It has been my observation that unless you go to Sabak you do not learn anything about Salats specially non obligatory like Nisf-Lail---Shifa-Vitar and Juloos as well as Tahajjud and other
MY REQUEST AND SUGGESTION IS, CAN SOME ONE FROM EITHER OR BOTH SIDE OF SPECTRUM POST THE NIYYAT-DUAS AND EXACT WAY TO PERFORM THESE SALATS.
I have found differences in the Duas printed in earlier Shaifa (printed by Sharafali) and the current, some of the Ayahs from the original has been deleted e.g. the Qunut Dua for Fajar Salat does not have starting Ayah of Allah Humma Salle Allah in the current one it starts only with Allahumma Inna Nahmaduka while the old started with Salwat
THIS THREAD CAN BE MOVED TO OTHER AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NO UNWARRANTED DISCUSSION FROM NON PRACTICING BOHRAS OR FROM PRISTINE BOHRAS, THIS IS JUST FOR EDUCATIONAL AND VIRTUAL TEACHING PURPOSES
I think this will provide a very valuable services to our new readers on this forum
Last edited by SBM on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#2

Unread post by bohraji » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:47 am

An excellent suggestion by SBM. We do need this urgently. Please let the non bohras away from this thread.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#3

Unread post by asad » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:51 am

Found this on the net, its not according to the exact requirement of SBM but nevertheless its a comprehensive one.
http://dawoodi-bohra-namaz.blogspot.com ... glish.html
LEARN DAWOODI BOHRA NAMAZ IN ENGLISH
Dawoodi Bohra Namaz
And Translation in
English
Edited By: ZEN S. DOHADWALA
August 13, 2010
Last edited by asad on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

SBM
Posts: 6466
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#4

Unread post by SBM » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:53 am

Br Asad
Thank you but I requested about NON OBLIGATORY Salats, The Obligatory are available and majority of DB know about it but it is NON OBLIGATORY which are not been discussed anywhere

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#5

Unread post by asad » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:22 am

this link contains almost all you need to know

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22180002/8 ... imized.pdf

level_headed
Posts: 162
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#6

Unread post by level_headed » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:36 pm

Look at the dushmani. One of the 4 laeens of Jaame - Sajjad - his son has removed the dua for Allahumma inna haaza daiee. Sajjad must have himself prayed(dhong) this while at the Jaamea but has now removed it from this book.
In final conclusion, this book is not in line with what faithful Bohras pray

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#7

Unread post by Adam » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:21 pm

I noticed the same....
Takes everything from us, but doesn't follow it completely. Distorting the truth.

From the book, it "seems" that "they" follow until the 21st Imam.
What/Who next?

Aymelek
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:14 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#8

Unread post by Aymelek » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:33 am

Br. SBM,

This is from this very website itself....hope this helps all the readers...

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/pdfs/NamazDua%20part-1.pdf
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/pdfs/NamazDua%20part-2.pdf

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#9

Unread post by Adam » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:53 pm

I glanced briefly through these books
Interesting to note:
- The Duas & Munajaat/Qasidas are written by Fatimi Imams and Du'at (the same Imams and Du'ats the proggies don't accept when they are named). And the compilation of these Dua's with the related Namaaz & niyyat was actually systematically compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA or a few Duats before him. (The same Du'ats these Proggies insult on a daily basis). Strange don't you think?
- I just happened to see on V2 page 154 relating to Ghadeer e Khum where it talks about "Hazrat Ali" and "Hazrat Umar" in the same breadth.
Aren't these Proggy guys supposed to follow the Fatimid Da'wat & Moulana Ali? Strange.

Maybe a more detailed look into this book will reveal how utterly confused and two faced these Proggies really are.


Bohra spring
Posts: 1354
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#10

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:41 pm

actually systematically compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA or a few Duats before him. (The same Du'ats these Proggies insult on a daily basis). Strange don't you think?
So just because STS says it is from imams literature without independent verification we have to accept it it is authentic

With STS track record systemically is a well known term ! :cry:

And why the fuss whether we say haza Diai or not , when the prayer is to originally to be in praise of Allah and not humans who are here to serve him, as if the honorable sincere imams or prophets care if you include them or not...and praising the rest is optional and not material to the ritual of faith.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#11

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:45 pm

Adam wrote:
how utterly confused and two faced these Proggies really are.
do single celled and brainless amoebas suffer from confusion?
do robots suffer from confusion?
do machines and automatons suffer from confusion?
do the inmates of a mental asylum suffer from confusion?
do the shaheed lions of africa put to death by syedna and his family suffer from confusion?
did the mother of syedna burhanuddin suffer from confusion?

Adam
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#12

Unread post by Adam » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:08 pm

So just because STS says it is from imams literature without independent verification we have to accept it it is authentic

So why follow the book compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin (the same person you insult).
Surely your own leaders/scholars must have some better books for you'll.
Why steal/copy/follow someone elses books and practices?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1354
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#13

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:37 am

Adam I do not follow STS authored books

I do not need to steal borrow or beg

Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#14

Unread post by progticide » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:27 am

Bohra spring wrote: And why the fuss whether we say haza Diai or not , when the prayer is to originally to be in praise of Allah and not humans who are here to serve him, as if the honorable sincere imams or prophets care if you include them or not...and praising the rest is optional and not material to the ritual of faith.
Ham Spring Roll,

If you feel what you have written above is the truth and you would stick to it, then maybe for once you should visit your maulvi and ask him the meaning of the following which is the integral part of the prayers and you probably have been reciting in the Tashaahud all your life before turning your head either side for salaam:

Assalaamo alaika ayyuhan nabiyo wa rahmetullah he wa barakato
Assalaamo alaina wala ibadillahis saliheen


Maybe some Arabic scholar on this site itself can do a favour and translate this for you on this thread. Adam, if you could please.

And ask your maulvi if you are allowed to recite the tashaahud without reciting the above lines and complete the salaam?

BS, If you then feel ashamed at what you have written above without sufficient knowledge on the subject than repent and seek forgiveness for your deeds and renew your oath of allegiance and never visit this site again.
Last edited by progticide on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

surti
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:49 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#15

Unread post by surti » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:31 am

Bohra spring wrote:Adam I do not follow STS authored books

I do not need to steal borrow or beg

Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.
ringa ringa ring
this is bohraa spring
steals books from our king
but doesnt follow the king
he just reviews books of our king
im not begging
im not slealing
jealous of syedna saifuddin :|
ding ding ding
bohra spring

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#16

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:07 am

As-Salaah 'alaa an-Nabiyy(Sending Prayers on the Prophet) - Its Place & Manner
http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/13.html#RTFToC1

He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) used to send prayers on himself in the first tashahhud as well as the other.212 He also established it for his ummah, ordering them to send prayers on him after sending peace on him213, and he taught them several ways of doing so:

O Allaah! send prayers on Muhammad214, and on his household, and on his wives and progeny, as you sent prayers on the family of Ibraaheem; You are indeed Worthy of Praise, Full of Glory. And send blessings on Muhammad215, and his household, and his wives and progeny, as you sent blessings on the family of Ibraaheem; You are indeed Worthy of Praise, Full of Glory.

This supplication he would use himself.216

From
The Prophet's Prayer (saws)

From The beginning To The End As Though You See It

By: Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani
Translated by: Usama ibn Suhaib Hasan

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/prayerprophet.htm

porus
Posts: 3594
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#17

Unread post by porus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:38 am

Bohra spring wrote: And why the fuss whether we say haza Diai or not , when the prayer is to originally to be in praise of Allah and not humans who are here to serve him, as if the honorable sincere imams or prophets care if you include them or not...and praising the rest is optional and not material to the ritual of faith.
I agree. Farz Namaaz starts with niyyat and ends when salaam is recited facing right and left. All the rest are optional.

Assalaamo alaika ayyuhan nabiyo wa rahmetullah he wa barakato
Assalaamo alaina wala ibadillahis saliheen


Translation:

"Peace be upon you, O Prophet and may Allah's mercy and blessings (be upon you).
Peace be upon us, and upon righteous servants (worshipers) of Allah."

The first sentence above is in accordance with Allah's command to invoke blessings on Muhammad. The second is prayer for us all.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:35 am

surti wrote: ringa ringa ring
this is bohraa spring
steals books from our king
but doesnt follow the king
ding ding ding...
surti,

you have established 2 things:
1. that for brainless moron abdes like you, a dai who is supposed to invite people to faith has been transformed into a 'king'. this proves that you have sold your soul to the devil, that you are a kafir.
2. that you have the mental makeup of a 6 year old, seeing how conversant you are with nursery rhymes. perhaps you should stick to subjects more suited to your age?

considering how everything is so 'upside down' inside your head, perhaps you should adopt the name 'surti undhiyu'.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1354
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#19

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:17 pm

And ask your maulvi if you are allowed to recite the tashaahud without reciting the above lines and complete the salaam?
By not praising Ahlul Bayt in the prayer does not invalidate the namaaz, by praising them is sawaaab but exaggerating to the extent of shirk invalidates it.

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#20

Unread post by mnoorani » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:23 am

surti wrote:
Bohra spring wrote:Adam I do not follow STS authored books

I do not need to steal borrow or beg

Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.
ringa ringa ring
this is bohraa spring
steals books from our king
but doesnt follow the king
he just reviews books of our king
im not begging
im not slealing
jealous of syedna saifuddin :|
ding ding ding
bohra spring

It is The Sayedna Taher Saifuddin who went on a stealing spree by acquiring huge trust properties around the world under the threath of baraat, These kings that you have mentioned attend grand ziayafats at a price instead of feeding their subjects. It takes a humble mumin like bohraji to do such kind of work in Ahmedabad.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1354
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#21

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:43 am

Surti thank you for making poetry for me , I know abdes are good ...

I am jealous of STS's wealth , if only I could get my hands on them!

Let me know if it is stealing, my parents gave STS wajebat, SMB printed books from the dawaat collection which he inherited, I paid shilling 51 for a copy, I throw it in the shelf...it is my property . If we are name calling he has falsely stolen the credit.

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#22

Unread post by Adam » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:10 am

@Bohra Spring
Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.

The Behori hafti in question was compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.
The Niyyats for each type of Namaz was made by him. In accordance to each niyyat, he compiled a set of Duas of Imams and Duats, some of his own.
So these Duas, are scattered in different books, collected and compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin to aid a "Dawoodi Bohra" in his namaaz. This Dawoodi Bohra "system/tradition" of reciting these Namaaz s at Nisf ul Layl/Behori is only found in "Dawoodi Bohra" books.
The other sects of Islam do not follow in the same way, they have their own niyyats and duas (Sunni s pray Taraweeh instead).

Question being : Why are YOU following the compilation/niyyats/system of Behori by Syedna Taher Saifuddin if you hate him so much?
Don't have an answer?
I do : Because you have no where else better to run to.


SBM
Posts: 6466
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#23

Unread post by SBM » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:12 pm

Adam wrote:@Bohra Spring
Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.

The Behori hafti in question was compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.
The Niyyats for each type of Namaz was made by him. In accordance to each niyyat, he compiled a set of Duas of Imams and Duats, some of his own.
So these Duas, are scattered in different books, collected and compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin to aid a "Dawoodi Bohra" in his namaaz. This Dawoodi Bohra "system/tradition" of reciting these Namaaz s at Nisf ul Layl/Behori is only found in "Dawoodi Bohra" books.
The other sects of Islam do not follow in the same way, they have their own niyyats and duas (Sunni s pray Taraweeh instead).

Question being : Why are YOU following the compilation/niyyats/system of Behori by Syedna Taher Saifuddin if you hate him so much?
Don't have an answer?
I do : Because you have no where else better to run to.

Adam
Only problem is Alavi broke away before 51 Dai and they also have the same compilation of Niyyat and Duas too

Adam
Posts: 1261
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Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#24

Unread post by Adam » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:57 pm

@SBM
Adam
Only problem is Alavi broke away before 51 Dai and they also have the same compilation of Niyyat and Duas too

True. I am not an expert in the Alavi sect, but there maybe two reasons for that:
1. Like I mentioned earlier, this or some of the compilation of Niyyats and Duas may have been done by Du'ats before the 51st. In which case, at least they believe in the Du'aats. Where as you guys don't even believe in the Du'ats in the first place!
2. The Alavi Bohras, (maybe due to a lacking in their own system/administration), have just copied Dawoodi Bohra practices, the same way they wear the same Topi and Rida as the Dawoodi Bohras. Until a few years back, they used to do Haj under/with the Dawoodi Bohras.
Even monthly books published by Dawoodi Bohras like the Naseem e Sehr are used by them to understand their own faith.
Due to this, it is not surprising that they would have been able to get their hands on the books published by The Dawoodi Bohras during the time of Syedna Taher Saifuddin (the Behori hafti is easily available), and ommitted or changed a few things.
I am more of the second opinion, because my sources tell me that these books were in fact compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.

So why would Alavis use Syedna Taher Saifuddins books? - Maybe because they themselves were confused, or didn't have anything for themselves.

Now, why do YOU continue to use "this" certain book, when you know it was compiled by your enemy, the person you insult on a daily basis?

Seems like someone is lost or confused?

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#25

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:06 pm

We follow this book because it does not go against the core values of Islam. We are not against 51st and 52nd in fundamental religious matters - so long as they do not distort them for their own selfish interests.

Bori85
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#26

Unread post by Bori85 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:32 pm

Adam wrote:@Bohra Spring
Yes but when he reproduces Islamic literature he has not copyright to it so do not get offended if we review it.

The Behori hafti in question was compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.
The Niyyats for each type of Namaz was made by him. In accordance to each niyyat, he compiled a set of Duas of Imams and Duats, some of his own.
So these Duas, are scattered in different books, collected and compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin to aid a "Dawoodi Bohra" in his namaaz. This Dawoodi Bohra "system/tradition" of reciting these Namaaz s at Nisf ul Layl/Behori is only found in "Dawoodi Bohra" books.
The other sects of Islam do not follow in the same way, they have their own niyyats and duas (Sunni s pray Taraweeh instead).

Question being : Why are YOU following the compilation/niyyats/system of Behori by Syedna Taher Saifuddin if you hate him so much?
Don't have an answer?
I do : Because you have no where else better to run to.

Yes, he STS did compile a book for niyyats for Behori, so what? He had to do something to show to DB's that he is the" Dai", he started looting the community's wealth and making his family immensely rich. In his free time ( well he had lot's of it, as was living a luxurious life with our money) he sat and wrote this book, what big deal?

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#27

Unread post by pheonix » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:43 am

Bori85 wrote:
Adam wrote:@Bohra Spring

The Behori hafti in question was compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.
The Niyyats for each type of Namaz was made by him. In accordance to each niyyat, he compiled a set of Duas of Imams and Duats, some of his own.
So these Duas, are scattered in different books, collected and compiled by Syedna Taher Saifuddin to aid a "Dawoodi Bohra" in his namaaz. This Dawoodi Bohra "system/tradition" of reciting these Namaaz s at Nisf ul Layl/Behori is only found in "Dawoodi Bohra" books.
The other sects of Islam do not follow in the same way, they have their own niyyats and duas (Sunni s pray Taraweeh instead).

Question being : Why are YOU following the compilation/niyyats/system of Behori by Syedna Taher Saifuddin if you hate him so much?
Don't have an answer?
I do : Because you have no where else better to run to.

Yes, he STS did compile a book for niyyats for Behori, so what? He had to do something to show to DB's that he is the" Dai", he started looting the community's wealth and making his family immensely rich. In his free time ( well he had lot's of it, as was living a luxurious life with our money) he sat and wrote this book, what big deal?
Again stresses my point. Proggies in general do not know any thing about the Duats and their history. Hence they donot even know what they are talking about,

SBM
Posts: 6466
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#28

Unread post by SBM » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:30 am

Again stresses my point. Proggies in general do not know any thing about the Duats and their history. Hence they donot even know what they are talking about,
Phoneix
OK SO PROGGIES IN GENERAL DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DUATS AND THEIR HISTORY BUT YOU THE DIE HARD ABDES KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY SO PLEASE TELL US HOW DID QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED LIVED HIS LIFE AND COMPARE THAT WITH 51 AND 52 AND 53. WHY DID QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED STOOD UP AGAINST THE TYRANNY AND GAVE HIS LIFE WHILE THE 52 DECIDED TO HONOR NARENDRA MODI AND BAL THACKREY TO SAVE THEIR HIDES SO DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

surti
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:49 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#29

Unread post by surti » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:53 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
surti wrote: ringa ringa ring
this is bohraa spring
steals books from our king
but doesnt follow the king
ding ding ding...
surti,

you have established 2 things:
1. that for brainless moron abdes like you, a dai who is supposed to invite people to faith has been transformed into a 'king'. this proves that you have sold your soul to the devil, that you are a kafir.
2. that you have the mental makeup of a 6 year old, seeing how conversant you are with nursery rhymes. perhaps you should stick to subjects more suited to your age?

considering how everything is so 'upside down' inside your head, perhaps you should adopt the name 'surti undhiyu'.
ghela zulfiqar....tu che kuffaar
daai to che kaum na sardar
mane kevi padhe che ryhme
kem ke 6 waras nu bachu bhi waat ne samje che
mara paase nathi time
jitli lambi bhankaso tu lakhe che
itle mane kevi padhe che ryhme
tu kai behtar kaam kar na waste kar taro time

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: A REQUEST---A SUGGESTION

#30

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:13 pm

surti wrote:
surti,

you have established 2 things:
1. that for brainless moron abdes like you, a dai who is supposed to invite people to faith has been transformed into a 'king'. this proves that you have sold your soul to the devil, that you are a kafir.
2. that you have the mental makeup of a 6 year old, seeing how conversant you are with nursery rhymes. perhaps you should stick to subjects more suited to your age?

considering how everything is so 'upside down' inside your head, perhaps you should adopt the name 'surti undhiyu'.
ghela zulfiqar....tu che kuffaar
daai to che kaum na sardar
je sardaar tv par kare che galti no Ikraar?
jena lidhe murder thai che abde hazaar??

mane kevi padhe che ryhme
kem ke 6 waras nu bachu bhi waat ne samje che
mara paase nathi time
pan surti undhiyu banavane chhe time?
jitli lambi bhankaso tu lakhe che
itle mane kevi padhe che ryhme
tu kai behtar kaam kar na waste kar taro time
taro time barbaad thai ena karta su behtar kaam? :D
[/quote]