Please enlighten me about the whole story

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Yemeni
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 am

Please enlighten me about the whole story

#1

Unread post by Yemeni » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:43 am

I have gained a lot of information since my registering in this forum , Thanks to all progressives in this forum .. I have still some missing parts about the true story when did the current situation of dictatorship has happened and what gives the dai all this power . I need to go somehow to the past when this doctrine was moved to India and when the NASS was the real factor for deciding the next Dai ..

Please enlighten me or give me some links that can help . I need this information because we do know anything about this in Yemen at least the progressives know what happened exactly around 1840 if am not wrong .. I expecting some information from the progressives..


note : I am sorry but I did not understand some words like ..KOTHAR , because my mother tongue is Arabic ...

Thank you all progressives ..
Yemeni



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#2

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:18 am

Brother Yemeni

Welcome we need your help to also know what a mess we Indians have created from what was handed over by your ancestors.

What is your source of knowledge, do you have access to history and practises independent of the Indian bohra scholars?

I also want to know how do you just accept the Diai when you have no cultural or geographic connection, especially when you are surrounded by larger Shia and Sunni tribes in Yemen.

Do you have access to literature that was authored in Yemen before the faith arrived in India , it will help identify how the impurities crept in.

What do you think about imamuzaman , is he likely to be an Arab or do you think he is now Indian ?

In your madrasa do you rely on scholars from Surat or you have your own source.

Do you still have pure bred Yemeni traditions

Eg do you use coconut , practise the superstition , dress in Indian style hijab and topi, Kurta

Do you feel discriminated in decision making, are you well represented in the leadership

Are Yemeni bohras living well, educating their children, professionals, have their needs covered and have good lifestyles ?

How do you say 1840, why do you think this is when the mess started , and not much earlier? The bohra faith must have started drifting and absorbing strange practices as soon as it started assimilating within Hindu neighbors 100s of years ago



Yemeni
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 am

#3

Unread post by Yemeni » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:02 pm

Brother Bohra spring,

All the mess started here in Yemen when the current or the previous Dai started to impose the rules that has nothing to do with Ismaili doctrine ( I am sorry but we never call ourselves Bohra because we do not know the meaning of this word ) , for example wearing a special uniform, making women go to the mosques and forcing them to wear special uniform .. this uniform for example is not suitable here in Yemen because it will lead to discrimination activities to us from the other Muslems, because we are in total Muslim community .Although that there are many Ismaili people here in Yemen is following this rules but most of them according to my Knowles is doing this because of their ignorance of what is their doctrine is about .. They have nothing of true information about their doctrine , they did not have a source of knowledge to the true Ismaili literature.

I believe that this doctrine has developed into many stages and I think this stage is the worst stage .. I believe that if we return back to the true Ismaili literature we can develop new ideas and we can make this doctrine alive again .. I believe that the current situation of the Ismaili doctrine is a result of bad understanding of the true message of this doctrine. If you are able to read the books of the old Dais like Alsagestanj ,Alkermani ,Alnoman , Alhamedi you can get the true Idea about this doctrine ... It is a doctrine that is trying to interpret everything in the world using reasonable and logical approach within Islam. Although the idea of Imam seems unlogical it has its advantages if you see it from a different perspective .. It is not about whether Imam is Indian or Arabic it is about what is the true function of the Imam ..



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#4

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:35 pm

Thank you bro Yemeni

What do you as a Yemeni understand by the meaning of imamzaman and his today existent ?

The Diai you mention how do we get access to their translated literature not influenced by Indian bohra scholars ?

If you are just Ismaili s how do you differentiate or recognize the various Dias eg dawoodi, alavi, Suleimani , who do you follow , because from your side allegedly only one can be right even though they try to convince everyone else the other 2 are wrong ?



Adam
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

#5

Unread post by Adam » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:54 pm

@Yemeni
سؤالك عن علو مرتبة الدعاة المطلقين؟
يكفيك قصائد الداعي الاجل سيدنا علي بن المولى محمد بن الوليد - و هو داعي من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

و النص؟
يكفيك كتاب دعائم الاسلام - لسيدنا نعمان
و تاج العقائد لسيدنا علي
و كتب سيدنا ادريس - و هما داعيان من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

تزعم ان تعرف المعارف للفرقة الاسماعيلية؟..... عرفت شيئا و غابت عنك اشياء



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#6

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:06 pm

so now adam is following the time tested theories of sugar coating his bitter pill of indoctrination, using the doubter's lingo and appearing to be bearing expensive gifts when in reality they are nothing but poisonous fruit. he is also trying hard to disguise his sinister machinations by using a language which he thinks is not understood by the majority on this forum and cow them into silence.

these are the tactics which iblis uses every second of every minute to lure the virtous into hell..



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

#7

Unread post by accountability » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:08 pm

Brother yemeni, please tell us about yemeni aspect of this religion. As you said that the doctorine is changed. Can you enlighten us about arabic version of bohra religion. Are yemeni islmailis also called bohra?



Bori85
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

#8

Unread post by Bori85 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:21 pm

Yemeni wrote:I have gained a lot of information since my registering in this forum , Thanks to all progressives in this forum .. I have still some missing parts about the true story when did the current situation of dictatorship has happened and what gives the dai all this power . I need to go somehow to the past when this doctrine was moved to India and when the NASS was the real factor for deciding the next Dai ..

Please enlighten me or give me some links that can help . I need this information because we do know anything about this in Yemen at least the progressives know what happened exactly around 1840 if am not wrong .. I expecting some information from the progressives..


note : I am sorry but I did not understand some words like ..KOTHAR , because my mother tongue is Arabic ...

Thank you all progressives ..
Yemeni
Mr.Yamani

You are talking about 1840, and how all this Bohra community started, I would suggest , let's keep it current, if you believe in the Dawoodi Bohra community, then at present what is important to know is that the tyranni of the community Leader's has started from the time of Syedna Taher Saifuddin and then followed by his son Burhanudin and now will be continued by his son Muffadal , you want to go so deep into this religion, even if you find out stuff of past, what is the use ? what are you going to do? At present the Kothar (meaning of Kothar is the family of Burhanuddin who is ruling the Dawoodi Bohra community and looting the community's money) is so strong with the power of their looted money and also the blind faith of Dawoodi Bohras that it is difficult to fight against them, and also difficult to make the DB's realise that, they are following a corrupt leader, it doesn't matter even if he is been given Nas as a Dai, what ever he did (well now he is so old and helpless that he has become a puppet in the hands of his sons) and whatever his sons are doing , they all are not even fit to be called Dawoodi Bohra, but the irony is that they are the Leaders of this community. So it is better to concentrated on the current situation, then to dig into 100 years back history.



Bori85
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

#9

Unread post by Bori85 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:27 pm

Adam wrote:@Yemeni
سؤالك عن علو مرتبة الدعاة المطلقين؟
يكفيك قصائد الداعي الاجل سيدنا علي بن المولى محمد بن الوليد - و هو داعي من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

و النص؟
يكفيك كتاب دعائم الاسلام - لسيدنا نعمان
و تاج العقائد لسيدنا علي
و كتب سيدنا ادريس - و هما داعيان من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

تزعم ان تعرف المعارف للفرقة الاسماعيلية؟..... عرفت شيئا و غابت عنك اشياء
@ Mr. Adam
Usually you type in English, but this time you did it in Arabic so that only Mr Yamani can understand. It seems you don't want other Progressives to know what you are saying to Mr.Yamani, if you are not hiding any thing then type in English

@ Mr Yamani
Will you do a favor to us and translate the above words in English for all of us. - thanks



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#10

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:18 am

Adam wrote:@Yemeni
سؤالك عن علو مرتبة الدعاة المطلقين؟
يكفيك قصائد الداعي الاجل سيدنا علي بن المولى محمد بن الوليد - و هو داعي من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

و النص؟
يكفيك كتاب دعائم الاسلام - لسيدنا نعمان
و تاج العقائد لسيدنا علي
و كتب سيدنا ادريس - و هما داعيان من اليمن
و ليس هو اختراع هندي بل هو مذهب الفاطميين

تزعم ان تعرف المعارف للفرقة الاسماعيلية؟..... عرفت شيئا و غابت عنك اشياء
Mulla Google MKD translation

@ Yemeni Asked for altitude arranged da'is? Enough poems calling for term prophet Ali bin al-Mawla Muhammad ibn al-Walid - and is unnecessary from Yemen And is not an Indian invention, but is the doctrine of the Fatimids And text? Sufficient pillars of Islam book



progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

#11

Unread post by progticide » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:56 am

Adam wrote:@Yemeni
..... عرفت شيئا و غابت عنك اشياء
Another regular proggy. :lol:



Yemeni
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 am

#12

Unread post by Yemeni » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:09 am

Bohra spring wrote:Thank you bro Yemeni

What do you as a Yemeni understand by the meaning of imamzaman and his today existent ?

The Diai you mention how do we get access to their translated literature not influenced by Indian bohra scholars ?

If you are just Ismaili s how do you differentiate or recognize the various Dias eg dawoodi, alavi, Suleimani , who do you follow , because from your side allegedly only one can be right even though they try to convince everyone else the other 2 are wrong ?
The idea of Imam is the center of this doctrine and it is all about politics . I admit is very hard to convince believers about this and it is very hard to discuss this thing right now ..

The point of how do you get to the translated literature is very important .Please enlighten me about this . Are you able to get access to the books of the old Dais like Sijestani , Kermani.. etc in original language that they wrote these books or no ?


I beleive that there are there stages of this doctrine
1- The Old stage ( Jaafare ALsadeq stage ) -The Interpretation of the Quarn according to Special approach but no Politics at all .
2- The Egyptian Stage - ( This is the Golden Era - They take over the political power and they create Philosophy and Ideology )
3- The Yemeni Stage ( Philosophy and interpretation of the Quran but a little bit Politics
4- The Indian Stage ( preserving the old Ismaili literature and creating nothing but ignorance and forbidding followers from reading their cultural heritage ..


Accountability

Regarding the theologies it is the same but in Yemen we do not wear a special uniform like Bohra do and we do not call ourselves Bohra . Off course, There are many people are doing the same like Indian Bohras and they call themselves Bohra because but they are a minority because all the Yemeni Ismailis does not know what is going on in the center of this doctrine . Only some people who went to India knows what the current leader of this doctrine is doing to his followers but they keep silent .. That's why I am following this forum ...




Mr. Bori85

Thank you for your reply .. You are totaly Right . but I do not have the intention to fight them I just want some information about what this family is doing to their followers in India because here in Yemen also we have blind followers but they know nothing about what he is doing in India and when I talk to some of their blind Yemeni followers they do not believe what I am saying .


I have gained access to the most of Ismaili literature during the diffrenet stages of this doctirne and I am trying to enlighten the people about their true Ismaili culture without the corrupted ideas of the current royal family .



Adam


My post was in English because I am trying to communicate with the progressive people here. I do not know why you replied in Arabic and I really did not understand what you trying to say . I am trying to communicate with the people here with language that they can understand .. This is basic communication and I do not have anything to hide .

By the way, this is one of the biggest problems for the Ismaili doctrine now .. It is about the language. All the books of the Ismaili literature are in Arabic and most of the followers do not know this language and I think this is a big factor that helps the royal family keeps their followers blind followers .


If you want to communicate with me in Arabic please send your messages using private messages . Although I do no have the intention to argue with straight followers.



zinger
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#13

Unread post by zinger » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:22 am

Mr. Yemeni,

One small question.

Do you belong to the same sub-sect of Islam that we Dawoodi Bohra's are?

If yes, then what do you call yourself? For sure, you would not be a Bohra right? Because that is what we in India are, from the Indian word Vyahwar, meaning traders

thanks



porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

#14

Unread post by porus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:19 am

Yemeni wrote: I beleive that there are there stages of this doctrine
1- The Old stage ( Jaafare ALsadeq stage ) -The Interpretation of the Quarn according to Special approach but no Politics at all .
2- The Egyptian Stage - ( This is the Golden Era - They take over the political power and they create Philosophy and Ideology )
3- The Yemeni Stage ( Philosophy and interpretation of the Quran but a little bit Politics
4- The Indian Stage ( preserving the old Ismaili literature and creating nothing but ignorance and forbidding followers from reading their cultural heritage ..
That is an excellent method of dividing the epochs. However, I think the Yemeni stage could be characterized as a sudden decline of the Egyptian epoch, which was characterized by a great deal of scholarship resulting from infusion of Greek philosophical thought into Ismailism following the period of Imam al-Sadiq. Yemeni stage reorganized the structure of Daawat and was concerned with preserving the continuity of Ismaili heritage but minus the scholarly input from philosophers of the stature of al-Sijistani.

The Indian Stage, as you rightly state, is the age of Ignorance, true Jahiliya, resulting in human worship. Knowledge, in the form of books, cannot be preserved by locking it up in a cupboard. It can be preserved only by widespread dissemination and discussion so that it progresses.

Yemeni wrote:
Adam

My post was in English because I am trying to communicate with the progressive people here. I do not know why you replied in Arabic and I really did not understand what you trying to say . I am trying to communicate with the people here with language that they can understand .. This is basic communication and I do not have anything to hide .
I think Adam's intention was to be helpful by providing references to old books but his claim that there is no innovation since Dawat transferred to India is a bit hollow.


لمن يعرف اللغة العربية

بالنسبة الكتب، نهى الله عز و جل في كتابه بالسجود للبشر

و لكن هذا مقبول للداي في الهند

و هذا واحد فقط من الأمثلة إختراعات هناك



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#15

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:43 am

porus,
Indeed it is an interesting way of looking at the development of Ismaili thought through these neat historical epochs. I agree that the Fatimid era saw the flowering of knowledge and scholarship, but I think this aspect has received much too attention and emphasis at expense of politics and power that underpinned the larger reality of that era. Fatimid Imams were also emperors, and as such were motivated by the demands of power. They sought to expand and preserve the frontiers of their empire as much as those of Ismaili faith, and both interests - in commitment and emphasis - did not coincide at all times. That era of great scholarship was also marked by the struggle for power and succession, intrigues, treachery and betrayal which lead to further schism. These realities are hardly ever discussed. We tend to see Imams purely in the theological light, infallible and all, but gloss over the human and vulnerable aspects of their character and behaviour. For it stands to reason that infallibility would result in an ideal and flawless process of succession and continuity. But clearly this has not been the case. So this puts paid to the theory of infallibility, for one, and shows that splits were caused by power and greed, for another.



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

#16

Unread post by accountability » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:16 pm

further to that, if we take into account Imam Hakim's era, His period was at best could be illustrated as escentric. he tried to impose fatimid doctorine on main stream egyptians, who were sunni, and also desecrating jewish and christian churches in egypt, who were a sizeable minority then.
Aslo Hakim desecrated the church of holy sepulchr, which was the site of resurrection of Jesus. Pope Urban II has called upon all christian kings to defend the holy site. According to encyclopedia britanica "Another cause was the destruction of many Christian sacred sites and the persecution of Christians under the Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim."
Which ultimately resutled in demise of fatimid empire at the hands of salahdin ayubi. Hakim was killed (died) misteriously. One account puts, he was killed by his sister, as he has come to know of her affair with one of his vazir.
I may agree with porus, that quran has refrences regarding infallibility of Panjtan, i.e. Mohammed, Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain. it is also a historical fact that Hassan had married numerous times, sometime keeping a wife for only months.
At the end of fatimid empire, there were succession dispute, that's when, nizaris and mustaalis came into being.



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

#17

Unread post by accountability » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:54 pm

Brother Yemeni, I would like to know your take on it. What i have quoted is general history, how do yemeni ismaili doctorine percieve it. How do you see the infallability. I still am baffled this whole infallibility issue. I just cant imagine that a human cannot err. All these imams were human.
In the present scenario, syedna saheb do not have full sense. He is almost mentally invalid. Now according to our doctorine, he is infallible. but he is not able to take decisions or as a summoner, to summon people to the faith. or guide his followers. one more thing his condition proves, is that he is as human as any other of his follower.

Imam mustansir, he was bethroned at the age of six, his mother was the defacto ruler, he was the longest serving ruler in then islamic history. he ruled for 60 years. His father Ali al zahir died of plague. under al zahir, egypt went through worst famine, in his period, Hakim's sister sitt ul mulk was the defacto ruler.

from al mustansir, there was division, Nizar the eldest son and mustaali. but mustaali with internal support got hold of caliphate, and nizar was exiled. Hassan al sabah did not recognize mustaali as caliph, and sided with nizar, Hassan al sabah is also the founder of Hashhashin (assassins) , ver brutal and trained killers.


The above history sounds very fallible and human to me.



Bori85
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

#18

Unread post by Bori85 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:02 pm

Mr. Yemeni,
After reading different post on this Forum, by now you have understood the DB ruling family and their different methods of looting the community. So now you can show this Forum to your people, i.e. Yemeni Bohra's who are blind followers of Syedna. The Yemeni Bohras ( or whatever Arabic name you have there) blindly believe him because the Kothar is giving them money (first time in Kothar history, other wise they just believe in taking money) , they are giving money to them so that they have blind followers. You see the Dawoodi Bohras of India, Pakistan , SriLanka and Africa are already following them, now they are catching Yemeni people, and once they will have a huge follower then they (kothar) will start collecting double money than what they have given them. So if you have chance and are willing to do, go save your people from this Kothar.



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#19

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:48 am

Bori85 good suggestion

Admin can you Please kindly see if your technical team can install and link the forum with auto translator modules so the forum can be accessible to people of other languages

http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tions/6516

Brother Yemeni your elaborate explanation and contribution is so valuable and welcome.
Especially your commentary on the evolution on Ismaili ideology between the various era.

What is the Yemeni Ismailis ownership of religious artifacts and property like masjids, land , tombs in Yemen , are they still in your control

Can you seek government support to regain ownership if lost to the Indian bohras ?

How can I or us help you fight for your rights and respect as indigenous Ismailis ?

Do you have the numbers and any scholars who are more learned than the Indian Jamia scholars , we can ask them to regain Diai ship and leadership ?

Can you make copies and send them to the PdB admin or send a scanned copy for historical protection. For any reason do not send to the orthodox as they could be interred with



Adam
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

#20

Unread post by Adam » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:08 am

I didn't expect such shallow comments from a group that's supposed to be literate. :)
Talking in Arabic isn't a sin, there are so many comments in Urdu, and no one makes a deal about it, so why now? Just because "Adam" did it?
Yemeni knows Arabic, thus it was appropriate for him. (Porus wrote in Arabic, and no one jumps at him. Two faced cowards)

Pathetic.
FYI
What I wrote to Yemeni was the following:

1. You want to know about the Rutba of Duat Muthlaqeen?
Read the literature of Syedna Ali al Waleed - (he's a YEMENI Dai)
So these are not "Hindi" innovations.

2. You want to know about Nass?
Read the Daim al Islam - Syedna Noman
Taj al Adqaid - Syeda Ali al Waleed
Uyoon al Akhbar - Syedna Idris
(The last two are YEMENI Dais, so this is not a "Hindi" innovation.

I ended with a famous quote "You claim you learned something, but you missed out on much more".

---------------
@PORUS
يا هذا
السجود
لقد امر الله الملائكة بالسجود للبشر مثل ادم و يوسف ع م - اليس هما من البشر؟

و ان كتب الفاطميين يامر اتباعهم بالسجود اللامام و الداعي في زمن الستر
مثل كتاب الهمة
و قصائد سيدنا علي حيث يقول
"مملوك رقك للتراب يقبل"
و قصائد سيدنا محمد بن طاهر حيث يقول في مدح سيدنا حاتم
و اسجد اجلالا لوجهك خالصا

و هما من الدعاة اليمنيين
و ليس هو اختراع هندي كما زعمت بضعف عقلك

و ا قول لك متمثلا مثل ما قال مولاتنا فاطمة ع م
أما ، لقد قلت ما قلت على علم مني بالخذلان الذي خامر قلوبكم و استفز صدوركم و لكن قلت الذي قلت لبثة الصدر و بعثة الغيظ و معذرة إليكم و حجة عليكم و إن تكفروا أنتم و من في الارض جميعا فإن الله لغني حميد .فدونكموها ، فاحتقبوها دابرة الظهر باقية العار موسومة بشنار الابد موصولة بنار الله الموقدة التي تطلع على الافئدة .فبعين الله ما تفعلون ، و سيعلم الذين ظلموا أي منقلب ينقلبون .



Yemeni
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 am

#21

Unread post by Yemeni » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:43 am

Brothers Bori85 , Bohra Spring, accountability,porus, Humsafar

Let me give you a glance of what is the situation here in Yemen , We have refused the Burhanaddin's ( that's how we call him here ) rules since a long time . They do not have control over anyone of us because they control the ignorant people who does know anything about Islam and the message of Ismaili doctrine . We are living in a Muslim country and there is no problem at all for making religious rituals for us in any mosque or in the houses . We do not believe in his religious leadership for this doctrine anymore because anyone has a small amount of knowledge about Islam and Ismaili doctrine will know that this man and his family is violating basic Islamic rules not to mention the Ismaili rules for Dais postion.. Bohra have many worship places here in Yemen but they are worried from the government and the from other Muslim community because everyone here in Yemen know them by their uniform and the other Muslims here insults them every where they find them because the they think that Bohra are worshiping Burhanaddin .
We are living here as Ismailis since centuries and we do not have any problems regarding tombs or mosques we are using the same mosques and tombs like other Muslims .
We have a scholars against the corrupted family here but in my opinion the the doctrine itself needs refinement . Many people do not believe in developing and adding or omitting new ideas .. They became like Salafis and Wahabis .. They believe only in the old and ready frozen ideas . The is the main problem .. Imama conflict was all about politics.

Do not worry about us here because they are minority in Yemen and their actions and is against Islam so in any proper chance the Muslim community here will eradicate them violently because the Yemeni mentality is aggressive if it comes to religion .

Thank you for you all for information and support .. I will be happy if I can help you by any mean



MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

#22

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:18 am

Yemeni wrote:Brothers Bori85 , Bohra Spring, accountability,porus, Humsafar

Let me give you a glance of what is the situation here in Yemen , We have refused the Burhanaddin's ( that's how we call him here ) rules since a long time . They do not have control over anyone of us because they control the ignorant people who does know anything about Islam and the message of Ismaili doctrine . We are living in a Muslim country and there is no problem at all for making religious rituals for us in any mosque or in the houses . We do not believe in his religious leadership for this doctrine anymore because anyone has a small amount of knowledge about Islam and Ismaili doctrine will know that this man and his family is violating basic Islamic rules not to mention the Ismaili rules for Dais postion.. Bohra have many worship places here in Yemen but they are worried from the government and the from other Muslim community because everyone here in Yemen know them by their uniform and the other Muslims here insults them every where they find them because the they think that Bohra are worshiping Burhanaddin .
We are living here as Ismailis since centuries and we do not have any problems regarding tombs or mosques we are using the same mosques and tombs like other Muslims .
We have a scholars against the corrupted family here but in my opinion the the doctrine itself needs refinement . Many people do not believe in developing and adding or omitting new ideas .. They became like Salafis and Wahabis .. They believe only in the old and ready frozen ideas . The is the main problem .. Imama conflict was all about politics.

Do not worry about us here because they are minority in Yemen and their actions and is against Islam so in any proper chance the Muslim community here will eradicate them violently because the Yemeni mentality is aggressive if it comes to religion .

Thank you for you all for information and support .. I will be happy if I can help you by any mean
kindly check your pm and reply suitably

shukran jazakallah



Adam
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

#23

Unread post by Adam » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:02 am

@Yemeni
We are living here as Ismailis since centuries

Define an Ismaili?
You accept the path that you've taken? Or are you not satisfied with that either?



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#24

Unread post by Humsafar » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:12 am

Yemeni,
You and like-minded people like can help us progressive a lot. You can expose the corrupt Dawat of India to Yemenis and other Arab societies.



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#25

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Brother Yemeni

Please answer this question do you need our help ?

How can we invite more of your like minded community members to this discussion ?



Yemeni
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:00 am

#26

Unread post by Yemeni » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:01 am

Bohra spring wrote:Brother Yemeni

Please answer this question do you need our help ?

How can we invite more of your like minded community members to this discussion ?
Off course, I need your help That's my original post question .. I need information about what the dictator and his family are doing .. There are many people here in Yemen need that kind of information and they keep asking me about them because not all of them know English so I am taking this information from this forum and translating all information to them .

Thanks



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

#27

Unread post by accountability » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:21 am

Yemeni do you guys have a leader, you said the doctorine is the same, so in satr there should be an appointee (DAI), DO you in yemen take syedna saheb as your dai, if you could apprise us how ismailis over in yemen are practicising tayebi faith. because in india, tayebis split after syedna dawood bin qutub shah, therefore we are called dawoodi bohras. dawoodis are the biggest sect, others who call themselves bohras, are very less in no.
we are very much interested in knowing how yemeni ismailis are practicing. it is also important because dawat originated from yemen. after 8th dai, there was a so called transfer to al hind. i have seen some books in jamia, but whatever jamia has, is hotch potch version of theology. the most talked about book by qadi noman, is daim ul islam. i asked one jamia teacher, if they have the original book, he told me that it was compiled by some dai, that too they do not have, all they have are notes and mostly books written by syedna tahir saifuddin.
so our theology here totally base on what current dai wants it to be. Take misaq for example, till early period of syedna tahir saifuddin, it was an oath given to imam ul asr. but now it includes imam and imam's dai. misaq is the basic allegiance agreement between imam and follower. but it was conviniently changed.
there are severe implications, as now we are swearing to give dai, indefinite powers over our life, if you go through misaq it is an instrument , that gives dai, total control over followers life. but it was done without any theological basis, it was never explained that did they come by this version, if this one is true, then till 50th dai, followers were taking wrong misaq, thus making them non believers. all the dais before syedna tahir saifuddin, they took misaq on the basis of old version. so were they among the follower. if they were not then the whole institute crumbles down, and if this misaq is wrong and baseless, then todays bohras are non believer. i would like to know yemeni point of view on misaq. or is there any such thing.



Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

#28

Unread post by Hanif » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:09 pm

Brother Yemeni,

Can you please answer two questions for me?

1. Do you practice Khatna, i.e. FGM? How about other Muslims in your country? Do they also practice this?

2. Do you have any information on the Zaidi Imams who are supposed to be in Yemen and how many Zaidis are there?

Thanks.



Bohra spring
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

#29

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:13 pm

Yameni brother,

Do you have a Diai ? Or who do your people regard as their religious leader ?

How did you decide on the leader ?

Have you any link of connection with Diai Sheikh Makrami of Najran Saudi Arabia ?

Can you revolt and kick the Indian Bohra clergys out of Yemen ? Have you tried ,

When i said help i meant I know someone who is a regular on this site, if you agree I will PM him, who is an expert to guide you in setting up a plan and executing it?



asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

#30

Unread post by asad » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:27 am

Bohra spring wrote:I know someone who is a regular on this site, if you agree I will PM him, who is an expert to guide you in setting up a plan and executing it?
Can you ask the same guy to help all of us, as whatever we have been doing till now is not working.