Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#1

Unread post by Doctor » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:03 am

Bismilla'hir Rahman'nir Raheem

(1) Tahir Saifuddin sahab aur Burhanuddin sahab Dai Mutlaq aur Mansoos bar-haq hone ka dawa karte he jabki haqiqat yeh he ki 46th Dai haq Molana Al Muqqaddas Mohammad Badruddin (a.q.) nuss kiye bager intiqaal farma gaye. Aur ulmao ne Syedina Abdul Qadir Najmuddin ko bator "Nazim" (manager) quaim kiya. Authentic Dai Mutlaq ka silsila ceased/khatam ho chuka he aur Najmuddin sahab se lekar mojooda Syedna sahab Mohammad Burhanuddin tak sabhi mahaz Dai Nazim ki hesiyat rakhte he. Is haqiqat ko aawa'munnas se chhupa aur khud ko mansoos bar-haq aur Dai Mutlaq kehna sarasar dhokha aur fareb he.

(2) Mojooda syedna aur sabik syedna Tahir Saifuddin sahab aur unke pehle ke 4 Syedna AAJ TAK APNE AAP KO DAI MUTLAQ SABIT NAHI KAR SAKE.

(3) Sabik Syedna sahab muqadmo me haar jaane ke baavjood jeetne ka elaan kar ke bhole bhale mumineen se Fatah Mubeen ke jashan manwate rahe aur yahi haalat mojooda syedna ki he.

(4) Sabik Syedna ke ahad me Nagpur wale fesle me Imam-uz-zaman salwaatullah'alehi ko (mazallah) khayali hasti bataya gaya aur Syedna ko hi Fatimi Dawat ke mukhtar-kul bataya gaya. Iska matlab yeh hoova ki jab Imam bhi eik khayali hasti he to fir Imam ke naib aur Imam ke Dai ka wajood kese? Yaani khud unhone apni position eik khud-saakhta Syed (sardar) ki si sabit karke unhone khud hi nuss ki ahamiyat aur wajood ko thukra diya. Is hesiyat se wah khud-ba-khud na to "Dai Mutlaq" na "Nazim" balki "Tagooth" ban jaate he.

Kothar kehta he: "Molana Mohammad Badruddin sahab a.q. ne eik martaba nahi kai martaba Syedna Najmuddin sahab per nuss ki"

Hum to tab jane jab Kothar eik martaba hi nuss hona sabit kar de. Bataye to sahi ki kab, kaha aur kin hazrat ke saamne nuss ki thi? Nuss ki ibarat kya he? Nuss hone ki aini shahadat (eye witness) kin logo ke saamne di gai?

Risala "Al Naie Al Batash't Al Kubra" me iska zikr kon se page par kiya gaya? Agar Najmuddin sahab Molana Muqaddas syedna Badruddin sahab ki nuss-jali se Dai hoove the to Tareekh Haqaiq ki roshni me sabit kare? Mahaz kothar ke zabani kehne ya mehaz likh dene se kaam nahi chal sakega. Yaha itna bata dena aur munasib maloom hota he ki Najmuddin se lekar Abdullah Badruddin sahab tak chaaro (all four) naazimo (managers) ne khud ko mansoos hone ka kabhi daawa nahi kiya. Apni tehreero aur taqreero me unhone nizaam (management) ki hifazat ka hi iqrar kiya. Sirf sabik syedna Tahir Saifuddin ne hi khud ko mansoos bar-haq hone ka galat aur be-bunyad dawa kar ke sarasar fareb diya.


Note: Al Batshat Al Kubra naami risala pehle Nazim Najmuddin sahab ke naam se Hijri sun 1256 me shaya hoova. Jo 46th Dai Molana Badruddin q.r. ki wafat ki it'tila tamam mumineen ko dene ki garaz se nikala gaya tha. Us qism ke risale ko 'Risala Annaie' (alif laam noon; noon per tashdeed; ain aur ye) kehte he aur isme Dai ki wafat aur nuss ke mutalliq tamam sare haalat batanasseel bayan kar diye jaate he.

Wa aakhiro dawana anil hamdo lillah he Rabbil aalameen

MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#2

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:12 am

doctor sahab, i really like your efforts and your willingness to show truth to people.

mein baar baar poch chuka hu aur ek baar fir poochtaa hu, agar syedna taher saifuddin aur burhanuddin sahab dai mutlaq nahi hain to fir sahi DAi kon hai?

mein ye maanne ko tayyar nahi ke DAI kaa silsilaa khatam ho chuka hain, kyu ki aisa kehnaa akhri DAI ki tauheen hain, aur unper bohtaan lag saktaa hain ki unhone apni zimmedari nahi nibhaayi.

so please explain who is the real DAI mutlaq?

Momin Mukhlis
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#3

Unread post by Momin Mukhlis » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:55 am

You idiot Doctor...
Tu Syedna aur unke Mansoos par ungli utha raha hai...
Tarikh ke varq palat ke dekh. Kya hashr hua jo Dai-al-Haq ki tauheen karta hai. Allah unhe khud saza deta hai jo Dai ki tauheen karta hai.


Khayal rahe tumahari neeyat me khot hai adawat hai. Tumhari zindagi pe afsos hota hai.

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#4

Unread post by SBM » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:46 am

Tarikh ke varq palat ke dekh. Kya hashr hua jo Dai-al-Haq ki tauheen karta hai
You are right, should ask Syedna Burhanuddin what happened to his mother when she revolted against her husband Syedna Taher Saifuddin :evil:

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#5

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:53 am

Momin Mukhlis wrote:

Allah unhe khud saza deta hai jo Dai ki tauheen karta hai.
absolutely correct! allah dare not admit any bohra in heaven who does not have dai's ruku chithhi. allah also cannot forgive any bohra who has violated his misaq, even if that bohra does a thousand tawaf of kaaba in repentance.

what does this prove? that allah is abde of dai!!

su eni niraali shaan che!!!!

Casio
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#6

Unread post by Casio » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:27 pm

Ya websiter per sagla alag-alag firqa na manaso eik beesra si jhagro kare che ki ame khara che ane tame khota cho. Aa jhagra karte-karte kai baar nadan logo Mola ni anap-shanap baki de to ghanu dukh thaye che dil ma, magar Mola ni mohabbat itli jambavi didi chu dil ma ki koi divas aana sagla ni bakwas ti me heran nahi thayo.

Me eik mamooli manas chu. Mare koi deenyat/ilm nathi awadtu. Apni thodi si aqal mutabik nanu-motu samzi lao. Parantu, Doctor sahib tamari aaj yeh post vanchi ni maru dil ane dimag ghana heran pareshan che! Koi mumin mard ya baira Doctor sahib ni waat no jawab aapi sakta hoye to; me tamare Mola no vasto aapu, ehsan ane karam kari ni jawab aapi lo, please.

MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#7

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Casio wrote:Ya websiter per sagla alag-alag firqa na manaso eik beesra si jhagro kare che ki ame khara che ane tame khota cho. Aa jhagra karte-karte kai baar nadan logo Mola ni anap-shanap baki de to ghanu dukh thaye che dil ma, magar Mola ni mohabbat itli jambavi didi chu dil ma ki koi divas aana sagla ni bakwas ti me heran nahi thayo.

Me eik mamooli manas chu. Mare koi deenyat/ilm nathi awadtu. Apni thodi si aqal mutabik nanu-motu samzi lao. Parantu, Doctor sahib tamari aaj yeh post vanchi ni maru dil ane dimag ghana heran pareshan che! Koi mumin mard ya baira Doctor sahib ni waat no jawab aapi sakta hoye to; me tamare Mola no vasto aapu, ehsan ane karam kari ni jawab aapi lo, please.
then u shud look for knowledge of deen....thats wajib on you start from buying a copy of translation of quraan, and I promise that will change your life.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#8

Unread post by think » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:58 pm

Hypocrisy is apparent every day. for example every time it is announced "moula na taraf thi niaz che". this is a blatant lie. the jamaat compels mumineen to give money for niaz. It is the mumineen's money that does the niaz. again the question of Daiship, afterall what is Dai, what is the meaning of the word "Dai" and if the meaning is "deen ka rakhwala" then ask your self the question, are you following the deen of Mohammed Rasulillah. Is the Dai following the footsteps of moula Ali. It is very easy for the ignorant to call him "aqa Moula"but delve into the meaning and ask yourself , is he really your Aqa i.e. master is he really your moula. Look at his words and actions. Would you want such a person who goes around in big cars and enjoys the ultimate luxuries in life while you and your chldren are struggling to carve a living,be your aqa and moula?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#9

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:26 pm

If you are a Dawoodi Bohra, please recall all the conditions of Misaq that you said "na'am" to. in one of the conditions you gave you life, body and soul and all your belongings and wealth to the Dai. so if the jaman is from the donations from the monenin then still technically it can be from the Dai, have you ever given Misaq??
I believe in this Dai and all previous Dai(s) upto the 52 and will believe in the mansoos when he becomes the 53rd. My problem is with the corruption and greed in the dawat (qasr w aali & Kothar) and constant money collections on every occasion and this has spread like cancer to all aamils and they all have become very heavy handed in dealing with adna momins, other than that I don't question any religious dogma or order from the dai. If I were a Dai I would have an independent office like an Inspector General (IG) reporting directly to me, to hear the complaints from adna momins and address them efficiently and effectively, right now we have no where to go to complain, this has emboldened every one in kothar and all the way down the line to aamils and jamaat biggies. The bug of greed has bitten all the functionaries of dawat at all levels, now they are into laundering this money by buying real estate everywhere in the world, In USA alone I have heard the Dawat has over 100 properties all rented out and making money.
Please don't pay attention to the words like haqiqi kaaba, khalo ni jooti etc. these are euphemerisms, just like you telling your wife or girl friend," tara jivo koi nathi akkhi duniya ma" you also know that is a lie or over-exageration but it is allowed in love.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#10

Unread post by think » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:36 pm

find me two people exactly the same in this world. not possible.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#11

Unread post by think » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:42 pm

misaak , an oath given to the dai is taken at a time when the child is only 14 or 15 years old and has no clue what is going on.. It is the parents that are really trying to get it done more as a custom or tradition.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#12

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:58 pm

there is a school of thought, predominantly prevalent among the 48'rs but also among many disillusioned dawoodi bohras, that the dawat has been usurped from the 47th onwards and that it explains the sudden transformation of the dawat from spiritualism and piety to one linked to materialism, extreme greed and worldly ambitions.

i had once hosted a prominent 48'r at my house many years ago. his knowledege of the quran, of arabic and our deen was most impressive, to say the least. any questions that i or the others attending asked him, he simply opened the quran, looked for the appropriate page, para and line and gave us our reply! this gentleman maintained that the dynasty which took over after the 46th, is the handiwork of iblis and the last 6 dai's are his chosen agents. he also made a prediction that the oppression, greed, tyranny and evil of this family will continue to increase (as we watch it unfold before our own eyes) to such an extent that a point will come when even the cowardly, impotent and gullible bohras will eventually be unable to bear it anymore and will rise up in revolt. that's when the rebellion of udaipur will seem puny in comparison. he also mentioned that they have found the hidden imam after great efforts, having studied many of our scriptures where secret hints are given. they are protecting this imam and his family and have verified his credentials after exhaustive sessions with him. in fact, he mentioned that the imam gave his own proofs and his brilliance, devotion to islam and his piousness are so godlike that they have no further doubts about him. he also claimed that this imam is in mortal danger from the dai and will reveal himself only when the bohras rise in revolt and overthrow the present dynasty and all its members and administration. this imam, he said, lives a very simple, but honest hardworking life from his own meagre income, refuses all handouts or trappings of position and status.

i was dumbfounded by these revelations, they sounded too far fetched and incredulous, but when this gentleman made a comparison with the fairy tales that the last 2 syednas esp. have woven, of being in direct communication with the imam, of throwing the purdah across the qibla after namaaz while the dai is directly talking with the imam, collecting salaams in his name, of getting ilhams from him etc, etc. then these claims didnt seem so crazy after all. he even invited me to visit him next in mumbai and if i was genuinely convinced and willing to study many books and scriptures to open my mind, then maybe he would take me to this true imam.

i leave the readers to judge and reach their own conclusions, esp. after seeing the actions of the past 3 dai's incl the mansoos.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#13

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:24 pm

Bro Al Zulfiqar :

48r's is a new term to me . never heard of it before and didn't know they existed. I have heard of surtalisiya's (47r's) who parted after the 46th hence their name is surtalisiyas and they are pretty much in Nagpur and got subdivided a few times since their seperation from dawoodis.
Where is the big congregation 48r's and how big they are in numbers? and why have that name, what happened after the 47 th dai for these people to split away? Please enlighten.

Bori85
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#14

Unread post by Bori85 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:40 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:there is a school of thought, predominantly prevalent among the 48'rs but also among many disillusioned dawoodi bohras, that the dawat has been usurped from the 47th onwards and that it explains the sudden transformation of the dawat from spiritualism and piety to one linked to materialism, extreme greed and worldly ambitions.

i had once hosted a prominent 48'r at my house many years ago. his knowledege of the quran, of arabic and our deen was most impressive, to say the least. any questions that i or the others attending asked him, he simply opened the quran, looked for the appropriate page, para and line and gave us our reply! this gentleman maintained that the dynasty which took over after the 46th, is the handiwork of iblis and the last 6 dai's are his chosen agents. he also made a prediction that the oppression, greed, tyranny and evil of this family will continue to increase (as we watch it unfold before our own eyes) to such an extent that a point will come when even the cowardly, impotent and gullible bohras will eventually be unable to bear it anymore and will rise up in revolt. that's when the rebellion of udaipur will seem puny in comparison. he also mentioned that they have found the hidden imam after great efforts, having studied many of our scriptures where secret hints are given. they are protecting this imam and his family and have verified his credentials after exhaustive sessions with him. in fact, he mentioned that the imam gave his own proofs and his brilliance, devotion to islam and his piousness are so godlike that they have no further doubts about him. he also claimed that this imam is in mortal danger from the dai and will reveal himself only when the bohras rise in revolt and overthrow the present dynasty and all its members and administration. this imam, he said, lives a very simple, but honest hardworking life from his own meagre income, refuses all handouts or trappings of position and status.

i was dumbfounded by these revelations, they sounded too far fetched and incredulous, but when this gentleman made a comparison with the fairy tales that the last 2 syednas esp. have woven, of being in direct communication with the imam, of throwing the purdah across the qibla after namaaz while the dai is directly talking with the imam, collecting salaams in his name, of getting ilhams from him etc, etc. then these claims didnt seem so crazy after all. he even invited me to visit him next in mumbai and if i was genuinely convinced and willing to study many books and scriptures to open my mind, then maybe he would take me to this true imam.

i leave the readers to judge and reach their own conclusions, esp. after seeing the actions of the past 3 dai's incl the mansoos.
Mr.Zulfiqar,

I do agree with the points about the present Dai and his family and Kothar looting the community and the tyranny and evilness of this family and the farce about this talking to Imam in privacy and all. But cannot digest this guy 48er's leaders story either. As the biggest question here is that the Imam is so helpless and so coward that he is afraid of this Dai and his family. This is not a quality of true Imam, if ever there is an Imam.

MM Bukhari
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#15

Unread post by MM Bukhari » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:16 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:there is a school of thought, predominantly prevalent among the 48'rs but also among many disillusioned dawoodi bohras, that the dawat has been usurped from the 47th onwards and that it explains the sudden transformation of the dawat from spiritualism and piety to one linked to materialism, extreme greed and worldly ambitions.

i had once hosted a prominent 48'r at my house many years ago. his knowledege of the quran, of arabic and our deen was most impressive, to say the least. any questions that i or the others attending asked him, he simply opened the quran, looked for the appropriate page, para and line and gave us our reply! this gentleman maintained that the dynasty which took over after the 46th, is the handiwork of iblis and the last 6 dai's are his chosen agents. he also made a prediction that the oppression, greed, tyranny and evil of this family will continue to increase (as we watch it unfold before our own eyes) to such an extent that a point will come when even the cowardly, impotent and gullible bohras will eventually be unable to bear it anymore and will rise up in revolt. that's when the rebellion of udaipur will seem puny in comparison. he also mentioned that they have found the hidden imam after great efforts, having studied many of our scriptures where secret hints are given. they are protecting this imam and his family and have verified his credentials after exhaustive sessions with him. in fact, he mentioned that the imam gave his own proofs and his brilliance, devotion to islam and his piousness are so godlike that they have no further doubts about him. he also claimed that this imam is in mortal danger from the dai and will reveal himself only when the bohras rise in revolt and overthrow the present dynasty and all its members and administration. this imam, he said, lives a very simple, but honest hardworking life from his own meagre income, refuses all handouts or trappings of position and status.

i was dumbfounded by these revelations, they sounded too far fetched and incredulous, but when this gentleman made a comparison with the fairy tales that the last 2 syednas esp. have woven, of being in direct communication with the imam, of throwing the purdah across the qibla after namaaz while the dai is directly talking with the imam, collecting salaams in his name, of getting ilhams from him etc, etc. then these claims didnt seem so crazy after all. he even invited me to visit him next in mumbai and if i was genuinely convinced and willing to study many books and scriptures to open my mind, then maybe he would take me to this true imam.

i leave the readers to judge and reach their own conclusions, esp. after seeing the actions of the past 3 dai's incl the mansoos.
oh come on for god sake please dont spread ur own made stories....Imam uz zamaan is afraid of present DAI and his family? while he has GOD like personality?

oh come on, even a true believer of IMAM isnt affraid of any thing other then ALLAH, then how come IMAM is affraid of such stupid bunch of people?

any ways hiding of IMAM is for some other reason, and one of the best reason is that he wants people to realize the truth and stand out for own self, and then IMAM will come back and guide the chosen one Inshallah o taalaa.....

Bori85
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#16

Unread post by Bori85 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:13 am

MM Bukhari wrote:
Al Zulfiqar wrote:there is a school of thought, predominantly prevalent among the 48'rs but also among many disillusioned dawoodi bohras, that the dawat has been usurped from the 47th onwards and that it explains the sudden transformation of the dawat from spiritualism and piety to one linked to materialism, extreme greed and worldly ambitions.

i had once hosted a prominent 48'r at my house many years ago. his knowledege of the quran, of arabic and our deen was most impressive, to say the least. any questions that i or the others attending asked him, he simply opened the quran, looked for the appropriate page, para and line and gave us our reply! this gentleman maintained that the dynasty which took over after the 46th, is the handiwork of iblis and the last 6 dai's are his chosen agents. he also made a prediction that the oppression, greed, tyranny and evil of this family will continue to increase (as we watch it unfold before our own eyes) to such an extent that a point will come when even the cowardly, impotent and gullible bohras will eventually be unable to bear it anymore and will rise up in revolt. that's when the rebellion of udaipur will seem puny in comparison. he also mentioned that they have found the hidden imam after great efforts, having studied many of our scriptures where secret hints are given. they are protecting this imam and his family and have verified his credentials after exhaustive sessions with him. in fact, he mentioned that the imam gave his own proofs and his brilliance, devotion to islam and his piousness are so godlike that they have no further doubts about him. he also claimed that this imam is in mortal danger from the dai and will reveal himself only when the bohras rise in revolt and overthrow the present dynasty and all its members and administration. this imam, he said, lives a very simple, but honest hardworking life from his own meagre income, refuses all handouts or trappings of position and status.

i was dumbfounded by these revelations, they sounded too far fetched and incredulous, but when this gentleman made a comparison with the fairy tales that the last 2 syednas esp. have woven, of being in direct communication with the imam, of throwing the purdah across the qibla after namaaz while the dai is directly talking with the imam, collecting salaams in his name, of getting ilhams from him etc, etc. then these claims didnt seem so crazy after all. he even invited me to visit him next in mumbai and if i was genuinely convinced and willing to study many books and scriptures to open my mind, then maybe he would take me to this true imam.

i leave the readers to judge and reach their own conclusions, esp. after seeing the actions of the past 3 dai's incl the mansoos.
oh come on for god sake please dont spread ur own made stories....Imam uz zamaan is afraid of present DAI and his family? while he has GOD like personality?

oh come on, even a true believer of IMAM isnt affraid of any thing other then ALLAH, then how come IMAM is affraid of such stupid bunch of people?

any ways hiding of IMAM is for some other reason, and one of the best reason is that he wants people to realize the truth and stand out for own self, and then IMAM will come back and guide the chosen one Inshallah o taalaa.....
Oh you are still waiting for this Imam, Good Luck to you. I really wish Imam (if he really exists) is reading this post and seriously thinks about appearing now, if not now then when?

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#17

Unread post by Adam » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:47 am

Doctor has a habit of posting and then vanishing.

I second your question MMBukhari. If you don't accept the current Syedna, then
mein baar baar poch chuka hu aur ek baar fir poochtaa hu, agar syedna taher saifuddin aur burhanuddin sahab dai mutlaq nahi hain to fir sahi DAi kon hai?


To answer the question:

- Syedna Mohammed Badruddin did Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin twice in public.
Pune Waaz in Moharram 1254H & Surat Moharram Waaz in 1256H
- Records of the hand written letter by Syedna Mohammed Badruddin himself proclaiming Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin "Risalah Takbeer Sakina Fateh" Page 275 - 277
- There are several letters written to Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from his Hudood including Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin and Miya Saheb Wali bhai using the words "المنصوص عليه مرار" - (He who had the proclamation of Nass done on him multiple times) "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 181-3 & "Risala Rawdate Firdaws Page 165
- 49th Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a witness to the Nass, and he has recorded it in his "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 169

These are some examples, there are much more.

Now, DOCTOR.
You believe there were 46 Dais, and then the ball just stopped there? No leader after that? Did the Imam come and tell you'll everything stops right now? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or (Ahmeq) of Udaipur?
If you believe in the concept of "Nazim", you have also openly insulted the 52nd Dai from your above post, so you've not even accepted him as a Nazim, so you don't even have a Nazim right now.
So who handles your affairs now?

Leave it.
You'll don't care about Dais or Nazims. It's just hatred that makes you blind.
Sad story.


Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#18

Unread post by Doctor » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:24 pm

MM Bukhari wrote: mein baar baar poch chuka hu aur ek baar fir poochtaa hu, agar syedna taher saifuddin aur burhanuddin sahab dai mutlaq nahi hain to fir sahi DAi kon hai?
Koi bhi nahi.

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#19

Unread post by Doctor » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Adam wrote: - Syedna Mohammed Badruddin did Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin twice in public.
Pune Waaz in Moharram 1254H & Surat Moharram Waaz in 1256H
Adam, saying and writing that Nass was done - will not work. Risala "Al Naie Al Batash't Al Kubra" me iska zikr kon se page par kiya gaya? Hum to tab jane jab Kothar eik martaba hi nuss hona sabit kar de. Bataye to sahi ki kab, kaha aur kin hazrat ke saamne nuss ki thi? Nuss ki ibarat kya he? Nuss hone ki aini shahadat (eye witness) kin logo ke saamne di gai? YA HAQIQI TAREEKH KI KIS KITAAB ME LIKHA HE KI SYYEDNA BADRUDDIN A.Q. NE NUSS-A-JALI KI THI?
Adam wrote: - Records of the hand written letter by Syedna Mohammed Badruddin himself proclaiming Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin "Risalah Takbeer Sakina Fateh" Page 275 - 277
- There are several letters written to Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from his Hudood including Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin and Miya Saheb Wali bhai using the words "المنصوص عليه مرار" - (He who had the proclamation of Nass done on him multiple times) "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 181-3 & "Risala Rawdate Firdaws Page 165
- 49th Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a witness to the Nass, and he has recorded it in his "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 169
(1) Takbeer sakeena fath e mubeen risalat ur ramzaniya and (2) Tazkara e labeeb risalat ur ramzaniya - both books are written by "Gasibs" thus cannot be trusted and further in these two books no where it is categorically mentioned that "Nuss-a-Jali" was done on Najmuddin sahab. I have sent the relevant pages to Admin for publishing here for everyone perusal.

What I have written in these posts are some examples, there are toooo much more.

Adam wrote: Now, DOCTOR.
You believe there were 46 Dais, and then the ball just stopped there? No leader after that? Did the Imam come and tell you'll everything stops right now? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or (Ahmeq) of Udaipur?
I am a common mumin, Imam may or may not tell me directly however, for every common mumineen Imam a.s. and Dawat has done proper bandobast = Risala "Al Naie Al Batash't Al Kubra".
Al Batshat Al Kubra naami risala pehle Nazim Najmuddin sahab ke naam se Hijri sun 1256 me shaya hoova. Jo 46th Dai Molana Badruddin q.r. ki wafat ki it'tila tamam mumineen ko dene ki garaz se nikala gaya tha. Us qism ke risale ko 'Risala Annaie' (alif laam noon; noon per tashdeed; ain aur ye) kehte he aur isme Dai ki wafat aur nuss ke mutalliq tamam sare haalat batanasseel bayan kar diye jaate he. In this Risala Najmuddin sahab has no where mentioned "Nuss-a-Jali" over him done by Syyedna Mohammed Badruddin a.q.!!!

Did the Imam come and tell you'll that the chain of Dai cannot stop? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or all Ahmeq's (= Kothar)?

Adam wrote:So who handles your affairs now?
Namaz to padhni he, pani nahi mile to taiyamum karo. Pani mile na mile paak mitti to har jagah mil hi jaati he. Taiyamum me paak mitti per haath rakho, fir dono haatho ko takrao taki haath per chipki mitti khar (nikal) jaye - gusul bhi ho gaya aur wuzu bhi - ab namaz padh sakte ho. Imam ya Dai (misal a paani) mile na mile magar nek mumin to har jagah mil hi jaate he, haath ko khankherna (takrana taki mitti nikal jaye) - us nek mumin ke paas is niyyat se jana ki yeh koi designation ka malik nahi he (sare rutbe khanker diye he, koi designation wala nahi he) magar paak mumin he. Us mumin se apna sawal karo, woh mumin shariyat ki kitaab me aapko jawab dega. Shariyat ki sahi kitaab se jawab lena goya khud Nabi, Wasi, Imam ya dai se jawab lene jesa he. Agar jawab nahi milta to 'shaq' nahi karna, dil me yaqeen rakhna ki abhi nahi to ainda jawab mil jayega, Inshallah. Aur jab niyat saaf hoti he to jawab mil hi jata he.

Haqiqat me 'Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia'/shariyat ko sahi tareeqe se sirf non-Kothar wale hi follow karte he. Non-Kothar hi sirf true flag bearer he Fatimi Dawat ka. Alhamdolillah.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#20

Unread post by porus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:36 pm

From http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 76#p103076

"Both Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and Sayedna Muhammad Burhanuddin have several times named the witnesses present when the 46th Dai had pronounced Nass on the 47th Dai. So there is no question of Daawat ever agreeing to the phrase (Dai-e-Nazim). However, because of sudden "illness" of the 46th Dai, he did not leave behind any written document for the appointment. Since the Nass was pronounced in the presence of respected elders, Nass was considered valid."

The names of the two people who witnessed nass on the 47th Dai are:

Sayyidi Abdullah Kalimee

Sayyedi Abdulali Waliyullah

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#21

Unread post by Adam » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:13 pm

Nuss ki ibarat kya he? Nuss hone ki aini shahadat (eye witness) kin logo ke saamne di gai? YA HAQIQI TAREEKH KI KIS KITAAB ME LIKHA HE KI SYYEDNA BADRUDDIN A.Q. NE NUSS-A-JALI KI THI?


Answers given above.
The text of the Nass & and it was done in public.
One of the eye witnesses was the 49th Dai Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. He has related this instance.

Above are written and eye witnesses appointing the 47th as the Dai Muthlaq.
Now you provide evidence about the word "Nazim" or No Nass.

I am a common mumin, Imam may or may not tell me directly however, for every common mumineen Imam a.s. and Dawat has done proper bandobast

What is the "bandobast" according to you?
Appoint a Nazim, and then the Nazim goes bad according to you? So No Dai and No Nazim today. What happens then? You Udaipuris under Ahmeq believe in the system and necessity of Prophets, Imams and 46 Duats, and suddenly don't need anyone?

You never answered my quote:
After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you, or Ahmed Ali (aka Ahmeq) of Udaipur?

I have heard your twisted belief of Tayammum of you can't get water.
There IS water, the Dai Muthlaq is present. Your "tayammum" is not accepted.
And this concept is for those who KNOWS the Imam/Dai and his whereabouts, but cannot reach him in time, or do not have the means to reach him.
*P.S - Who is a Mumin? Who defines a Mumin? A Dawoodi Bohra Mumin is one who believes in the Leader of his time.
So if you are thinking you are doing Tayammum with "paak mithi", then think again, because you have been doing it all this time with a pile of "garbage".

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#22

Unread post by Adam » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:15 pm

@PORUS
The names of the two people who witnessed nass on the 47th Dai are:
Sayyidi Abdullah Kalimee
Sayyedi Abdulali Waliyullah


I will check this and re confirm

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#23

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:57 pm

I have heard two names of Masahaik who were witness to the nass e jali from 46 to 47th Dai and they are:

Syedi Abdullah Kalimee
syedi Vali Mohammed

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#24

Unread post by Doctor » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:27 pm

Kaka Akela wrote:I have heard two names of Masahaik who were witness to the nass e jali from 46 to 47th Dai and they are:

Syedi Abdullah Kalimee
syedi Vali Mohammed
Dear Kaka Akela, do not accept hearsays, they cannot replace evidence, can they? For your contention above do you have backing of any authentic Dawat book?

Doctor
Posts: 235
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Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#25

Unread post by Doctor » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:36 pm

Janab Adam bhaisahab,

Re-read my 2nd last post, addressing you. Your false contentions, as you always habitually pitch lies were negated in it and the facts its exhibit - you were unable to answer them!

Be intellectually honest; do not go anti to Allah/the rightful Fatimi Dawat for sake of materialistic awards.

Imam Jaffer Sadik a.s. has made prophecy about such situation, and gave solution: to be associated with last one till the next comes. So, we are associated with Molana syyedna Dai Mutlaq aaka Mohammed Badruddin a.q.

"Dai Nazim" has no legal/religious position. There is no such title/designation in Dawat. The then intellectuals to keep mumineen in fold have consented to make a caretaker, "Nazim". Though the rightful Mazoon and Mukasir were present but they do not want to step in as "Nazim"; Najmuddin was ready to step in the shoes as caretaker so, he was elected by the then intellectuals to take care of Nizam = management.

Imam has made limits for Dai's in 'zazia', Hind/Sindh/Yemen - Dai Mutlaq cannot leave his zaaira, so a person after becoming Dai cannot go to Haj, as Saudi Arabia is in different Zazira. NO DAI FROM 1ST TILL 46TH WENT TO HAJ AFTER BECOMING DAI. Intellectuals were clever, to make sure Najmuddin fake status is reveled to all in time ahead, they asked him to visit Mecca and search for Imam. After becoming Dai (Nazim), Najmuddin went to Mecca in search for Imam - it is one of the many proof that Najmuddin sahab was not rightful Dai Mutlaq.
Last edited by Doctor on Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#26

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:49 pm

Doctor Saheb:
My guess is that Adam is paid low-life lackey, jamea educated stuffed shirt (or kurta) who after 11 years of jamea thinks that he has the same knowledge as Dai & Imam (Nauzobillah). Knowing Arabic is not equal to having knowledge (by 4th grade in Jamea they have to answer their papers in Arabic), he has access to few books and flaunts them by quoting randomly, safe in the knowledge that no one else on this forum has access to them to catch him in his lies.
He has been given explicit raza to come here to confuse and befuddle everyone here, so we can be thwarted in our efforts to point finger at their greed and corruption. My advice to all on this forum is to ignore him and not give any responses to him, this way he will know that he is exposed.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1309
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Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#27

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:22 pm

Imam has made limits for Dai's in 'zazia', Hind/Sindh/Yemen - Dai Mutlaq cannot leave his zaaira, so a person after becoming Dai cannot go to Haj, as Saudi Arabia is in different Zazira. NO DAI FROM 1ST TILL 46TH WENT TO HAJ AFTER BECOMING DAI. Intellectuals were clever, to make sure Najmuddin fake status is reveled to all in time ahead, they asked him to visit Mecca and search for Imam. After becoming Dai (Nazim), Najmuddin went to Mecca in search for Imam - it is one of the many proof that Najmuddin sahab was not rightful Dai Mutlaq.
What is the reason that an Islamic imam would prevent a Muslim from performing a fundamental mandatory obligation of Hajj

How relevant are the 3 zazira in a global context ?

Doctor
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#28

Unread post by Doctor » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Bohra spring wrote:
Imam has made limits for Dai's in 'zazia', Hind/Sindh/Yemen - Dai Mutlaq cannot leave his zaaira, so a person after becoming Dai cannot go to Haj, as Saudi Arabia is in different Zazira. NO DAI FROM 1ST TILL 46TH WENT TO HAJ AFTER BECOMING DAI. Intellectuals were clever, to make sure Najmuddin fake status is reveled to all in time ahead, they asked him to visit Mecca and search for Imam. After becoming Dai (Nazim), Najmuddin went to Mecca in search for Imam - it is one of the many proof that Najmuddin sahab was not rightful Dai Mutlaq.
What is the reason that an Islamic imam would prevent a Muslim from performing a fundamental mandatory obligation of Hajj

How relevant are the 3 zazira in a global context ?
Dai does haj before becoming Dai so he does fullfill the obligation.

Haj is subjective, it becomes mandatory only when many conditions are fullfilled like - for common person some of those conditions are: zero debt status, health is okya, peace on way to Haj, satisfactory livlihood for dependents, etc. For Dai, among others one condition is: he cannot leave his zazira after becoming Dai i.e. in effective means till he is Dai he cannot go to haj.

This condition is imposed by Imam who is our Mola our lord, he knows better, if he has imposed this condition then it is akin to Prophet s.a.w.w. imposing this condition and they do not do thing which are not relevant.

At this moment, I do not know reason why Imam has imposed above condition, but will try to research. Inshallah.

Nevertheless, the matter of fact is, no rightful Dai from 1st till 46th, no one ever went to Haj after becoming Dai Mutlaq, though they did Haj before becoming Dai. So, anyone doing Haj after becoming Dai is one of the evidence that that person is not Dai Mutlaq.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#29

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:44 pm

doctor
This condition is imposed by Imam who is our Mola our lord, he knows better, if he has imposed this condition then it is akin to Prophet s.a.w.w. imposing this condition and they do not do thing which are not relevant.
Aren't Bohras most perfect Muslims, Doctor Saheb?
Where in Quran it says Imam is our lord beside Allah SWT?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Nuss aur Mansoos ki sahi haqiqat

#30

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:54 pm

Docotr Saheb:

The definition of zazira is a body of land surrounded by water all around, Hind, Sindh and Yemen are not zaziras because the have water on only 3 sides and at best can called peninsulas.

What proof do you have that Imam said you can not go for Haj after you become Dai??? why would Imam stop a believer from performing something that is part of the shariat?"

Now the dai(s) travel all over the world to Europe, America, Australia etc etc propagating their dawat, is that legitimate according to the Imam's orders? or they are in defiance of it??