Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

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badrijanab
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Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#1

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:16 pm

KEY IS RELIGION. ALL COMMON HUMANS WANT RELIGION. THEY CANNOT DO WITHOUT RELIGION. ENGINEER ASGER IS ENEMY #1 AND KOTHAR IS ENEMY #2 OF DAWOODI BOHRAS.

IF REFORMIST WANT TO WIN AGAINST TYRANNY OF KOTHAR THEN THEY MUST PROMOTE SHARIYAT. THE BIGGEST WEAKNESS OF KOTHAR IS RELIGION - KOTHAR IS NOT ABIDING BY THE TENETS OF FATIMI SHARIYAT.

IDEALLY BOHRA YOUTH / PROGRESSIVES SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT ON SINGLE AGENDA OF SHARIYAT I.E. KOTHAR NOT ABIDING BY FATIMI SHARIYAT - SHOULD THEY HAVE PURSUED PATH OF RELIGION THEN REFORM MOVEMENT (SUDHARWADI ANDOLAN) WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY BIG AND GALA SUCCESS AND ROLE MODEL (CASE STUDY) FOR EVERYONE WHO WANT THEIR RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF THEIR SECT.

BUT DUE TO MISGUIDED POLICIES OF ENGINEER WHO AT HEART IS #1 ENEMY OF BOHRAS HAS DONE THE BIGGEST HARM TO REFORM MOVEMENT AND GREAT FAVOUR TO PARASITE KOTHAR.

SHOULD REFORMIST DESIRE TO SURVIVE AND WIN (I.E. BRING THEIR MOVEMENT TO SOME LOGICAL WINNING END) THEN FIRST THING THEY SHOULD DO IS STOP DIGGING THE HOLE (ANTI SHARIYAT PRACTICES) IN WHICH ENGINEER ASGER HAS PUSHED THEM. THEY MUST PROMOTE SHARIYAT AMONG THEIR MEMBERS.

RELIGION WISE STATE OF AFFAIRS PRESENTLY IN WORLD ARE VERY SAD.

MAY ALLAH BESTOW WORLD BY ZUHUR OF IMAM A ZAMANA... AND THEN HE WILL BRING UNITY AND PEACE IN WORLD. INSHALLAH.

Bohra spring
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#2

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:47 pm

Badrijanab you need to start by going back to basic English the meaning of reformist is based on
Reformism is the belief that gradual changes through and within existing institutions of a society can ultimately change a society's fundamental economic relations, economic system, and political structures. This belief grew out of opposition to revolutionary socialism, which contends that revolutions are necessary for fundamental structural changes to occur.
Hence we are not going back to medieval practises...let us say that if for discussion,PDB does ever change direction and colludes with kothar for the wrong reasons they will also be the target of the resistance and this movement will always exist.

You criticism of mr engineer are based on the issue he is stating the Abdes are confusing the meaning of fardh and Sunnah, they are not the same ! He is at a stage where he does not need your or my endorsement , he is publicly recognised leader. You should rather try challenging him intellectually by proving him wrong . How about we have a debate between him and mansoons!

There are 2 pronged approaches that are needed to topple the kothar reforms and revolution. ....

khudaparast
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#3

Unread post by khudaparast » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:30 am

very good point.....come back to basics of islaam, which includes your looks and life style.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#4

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:25 pm

It seems that Mr.Engineer has touched a raw nerve of Shk Ahmed Ali Raj (badrijanab's mentor) . :mrgreen:

accountability
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#5

Unread post by accountability » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:37 pm

I do not want to reform the religion. so far as i understand, everyone here just reforms in administration. we want religious heirarchy to respect its followers human rights, treat them respectfully, not coerce them into money making zombies. we want an accountable administration, not an accountable dai, dai can decree whatever in religious matter, but he should detach himself from running of administration. we want jamat members elected. we want huge fund collection to benefit ordinary mumin.
First of all there is no fatimi shariyat. it is only islamic shariyat. most of the time it is hears say. According to fatimid theology, lineage transfers from father to son, but at the very begining there is an anamoly, it it were to be from father to son, then hassan's son was to be imam, because he was the first imam, but it deviates 180 degrees, and imamat is transfered to brother, imam hussain. then again at the end, there is anamoly, ,mustaali's eldest son nizar, but we recognize Amir, as the successor.
Also shia ithna ashaari, has same doctorine of lineage, from father to son, but they also deviated in case of hassan, after imam ali, hassan was imam, but then it instead going to hassan's son, it goes to brother imam husssain.
Abu abdullah al mehdi, founded fatimid dynasty. he claimed his lineage from Fatima binte muhammed through a web of intricacies. he claimed there were mastureens (hidden imam) .
Daim ul islam, our religious doctorine is no where to be found in its original shape, as you are well versed in our theology, may i ask you have you ever read daim ul islam in its original form, and the one you studied, did you find its origin. or have you seen an original transcript of daim ul islam any where.

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#6

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:09 pm

accountability wrote: First of all there is no fatimi shariyat. it is only islamic shariyat. most of the time it is hears say.
Prove it? Do not forge false allegations over 'Fatimi Dawat' without proof.
accountability wrote: According to fatimid theology, lineage transfers from father to son, but at the very begining there is an anamoly, it it were to be from father to son, then hassan's son was to be imam, because he was the first imam, but it deviates 180 degrees, and imamat is transfered to brother, imam hussain. then again at the end, there is anamoly, ,mustaali's eldest son nizar, but we recognize Amir, as the successor.
Son after father succession runs without break in case of only 'Mustakar Imam'. Molana Hasan a.s. is Mustoda and not Mustakar Imam. Mola Ali a.s. appointed his son Hussain a.s. as Mustakar Imam and his son Hasan a.s. as Mustoda same like Prophet Ibrahim a.s. appointed Ismail a.s. as Mustakar and Ishaq as Mustoda.
accountability wrote: Also shia ithna ashaari, has same doctorine of lineage, from father to son, but they also deviated in case of hassan, after imam ali, hassan was imam, but then it instead going to hassan's son, it goes to brother imam husssain.
Osool-a-Kafi, Ithna Asheri only book to be vetted by their any Imam (though this claim is proven false nevertheless) clearly says that after Hasan & Hussain Imamat will never be held by two brothers/sibling. All of Ithna Asheri scholars agree Imamat passed from Imam Sadik to Imam Isamil but then they got misguided to claim that from Ismail it passed to Musa Kazim!!!
accountability wrote: Abu abdullah al mehdi, founded fatimid dynasty. he claimed his lineage from Fatima binte muhammed through a web of intricacies. he claimed there were mastureens (hidden imam) .
Web of intricacies lies in your head not in reality. There were Mastooreens, how does that affect their linege?
accountability wrote: Daim ul islam, our religious doctorine is no where to be found in its original shape, as you are well versed in our theology, may i ask you have you ever read daim ul islam in its original form, and the one you studied, did you find its origin. or have you seen an original transcript of daim ul islam any where.
Should you next visit India PM me I can take you to Indore and show you not one but multiple original hand written Daimul Islam book.

accountability
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#7

Unread post by accountability » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:36 pm

let me make it clear, I am not arguing with you, whatever i know i know through reading, some research in my free time. i was very keen to know our history, so i dug into it.
you asked me to prove that there is "no fatimi sharia". Vice versa can you prove there is one, and based on what. you know the history I assume of fatimid heirarchy. Imam jaffer as sadiq had five sons, Abdullah and ismail from fatima, grand daughter of hassan, among them abdullah was elder. you were right, even ithna ashari acknowledged that first nass was on ismail, but imam jaffer revoked the nass and assigned it to musa al kadim. again, isnt this negation of shia doctorine, that imams are masoom, and cannot make mistake, in this case they are hell bent on proving that imam jaffer did make a mistake, so where did infalibility go. in our case ismail was not the eldest, but abdullah was elder of two, so imam deviated from the doctorine.
according to most historians, ismail predeceased imam jaffer.
when i said, abdullah al mahdi founded fatimi dynasty, i meant between him and ismail, there is not trace or any historical evidence of the existence from mohammed ibne ismail to hussain ibne ahmed, from 7th imam mohammed ibne ismail to 10th imam, hussain ibne ahmad. that is why they are called mastooreen, or hidden, so after 150 years, abdullah al mahdi 11th imam apprears on the horizon of afriquia, in algeria, and claims that he has lineage from fatima binte mohammed. but he does not reveal his father's whereabout, nor does he provide any evidence regarding mastooreen.
again i am not arguing, either correct me if above history is wrong.
the same thing played again in case nizari ismailis, prine karim' great grand father suddenly claimed in iran that he has lineage from nizar ibne mustaali. and came up with names from nizar to him. but never provided any historical evidence regarding those imams, or their dawa activity. if there is an imam in samarqand or bukhara, wouldnt he be doing any activity, so that could be appended in history.

you said you have hand written transcripts of daim ul islam, hand written by whom, if they are not hand written transcipts by qadi noman, then how would you prove the authenticity of the same, remember when fatimids chose to take refuge in yemen after mustaali, and amir, it was bad time for them. they actually had to flee, they were scattered.

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#8

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:11 pm

accountability wrote:let me make it clear, I am not arguing with you, whatever i know i know through reading, some research in my free time. i was very keen to know our history, so i dug into it.
you asked me to prove that there is "no fatimi sharia". Vice versa can you prove there is one, and based on what. you know the history I assume of fatimid heirarchy. Imam jaffer as sadiq had five sons, Abdullah and ismail from fatima, grand daughter of hassan, among them abdullah was elder. you were right, even ithna ashari acknowledged that first nass was on ismail, but imam jaffer revoked the nass and assigned it to musa al kadim. again, isnt this negation of shia doctorine, that imams are masoom, and cannot make mistake, in this case they are hell bent on proving that imam jaffer did make a mistake, so where did infalibility go. in our case ismail was not the eldest, but abdullah was elder of two, so imam deviated from the doctorine.
according to most historians, ismail predeceased imam jaffer.
when i said, abdullah al mahdi founded fatimi dynasty, i meant between him and ismail, there is not trace or any historical evidence of the existence from mohammed ibne ismail to hussain ibne ahmed, from 7th imam mohammed ibne ismail to 10th imam, hussain ibne ahmad. that is why they are called mastooreen, or hidden, so after 150 years, abdullah al mahdi 11th imam apprears on the horizon of afriquia, in algeria, and claims that he has lineage from fatima binte mohammed. but he does not reveal his father's whereabout, nor does he provide any evidence regarding mastooreen.
again i am not arguing, either correct me if above history is wrong.
the same thing played again in case nizari ismailis, prine karim' great grand father suddenly claimed in iran that he has lineage from nizar ibne mustaali. and came up with names from nizar to him. but never provided any historical evidence regarding those imams, or their dawa activity. if there is an imam in samarqand or bukhara, wouldnt he be doing any activity, so that could be appended in history.

you said you have hand written transcripts of daim ul islam, hand written by whom, if they are not hand written transcipts by qadi noman, then how would you prove the authenticity of the same, remember when fatimids chose to take refuge in yemen after mustaali, and amir, it was bad time for them. they actually had to flee, they were scattered.
How will you determine what you read is the correct reprsentation of historical facts?

The sensible logic that you gave about Ithna Asheri is rationally appealing factually correct i.e. Ithna Asheri contends Imams are masoom thus Imam Sadik cannot make error hence Imam Molana Ismail is the only true Imam and successor of Imam Sadik a.s. thus claim of Ithna Asheri is null and void.

Shariyat is rules and regulations, Quran do not directly answers even basic questions like how to offer Salat, one has to refer to Prophet, there are matters which Prophet have not answered then someone similar to Prophet will answer and his answer will be as if Prophet has answered in indeed - that person is called Wali... the chain goes on in every era: summation of their all rules and regulations is called 'Fatimi Shariyat'.

Only one fact is good enough to prove the Imam Mehdi with his predecessors: during first 'satr' when Abbasid infected the world of Muslims with less accurate Greek philosophy, to protect Muslim in general - the then rightful Imam Molana Imam Ahmed Al Mastoor a.s. has wrote WORLD FIRST ENCYCLOPEDIA titled as "Ikhwan us safa".

Remember when there is difference in ours and Ithna Asheri concept of Imam in seclusion - they considers their Imam where about is not known to anyone. Our concept is Imam is only concealed from his enemies but is accessible to his missionaries. 19th rigtful Dai has given names of 21 Imam after Imam Tayyeb a.s. i.e. we have names of total 42 Imams with us. Now u will ask reason to trust 19th Dai or Mukasir Khan Ji ibn Pheer Ji who too has reported the same (refer the book 'Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail' in the library section of this website) - answer is their character that is trustworthy of speaking truth. Have we seen hell or heaven or hidden angel Gibraeel or Qayamat, etc? No. But do we believe in them? Yes. Why? Because Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. has said so. Why we trust Prophet? Because he was man of character and trustworthy of speaking truth.

The question that you are asking - how about extending it to Quran? Do you have audio clip of conversation between Angel Gibraeel and Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.? So, we can tally the original audio clip with the documented text in Quran to verify its correctness?

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:49 pm

Our concept is Imam is only concealed from his enemies but is accessible to his missionaries.
That is not a concept. It is an excuse used by those that have no way out. I have a hidden Imam in my backyard who is hiding from the world but is accessible only to me. Can you prove that he is not there? What are you guys smoking?

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#10

Unread post by badrijanab » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:57 pm

anajmi wrote:
Our concept is Imam is only concealed from his enemies but is accessible to his missionaries.
That is not a concept. It is an excuse used by those that have no way out. I have a hidden Imam in my backyard who is hiding from the world but is accessible only to me. Can you prove that he is not there? What are you guys smoking?
The person that is hiding in your backyard ask him meaning of few exotic words from Oxford or webster dictionary should he be able to answer all then we will come to next test. Should he fails in test above then consider his Imamat claim to be false or him akin to your 1,2, & 3.

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:46 pm

Think about the completely idiotic test that you have cooked up for the so called Imam. The Imam in my backyard has access to all the dictionaries in the world on his computer. He can tell me the meaning of any exotic word. Think about a word, the meaning of which even Oxford and Webster do not know and then come and talk to me.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:05 pm

badrijanab wrote: Now u will ask reason to trust 19th Dai or Mukasir Khan Ji ibn Pheer Ji who too has reported the same (refer the book 'Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail' in the library section of this website) - answer is their character that is trustworthy of speaking truth. Have we seen hell or heaven or hidden angel Gibraeel or Qayamat, etc? No. But do we believe in them? Yes. Why? Because Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. has said so. Why we trust Prophet? Because he was man of character and trustworthy of speaking truth.

The question that you are asking - how about extending it to Quran? Do you have audio clip of conversation between Angel Gibraeel and Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.? So, we can tally the original audio clip with the documented text in Quran to verify its correctness?
As anajmi rightly pointed, it is an idiotic statement. Badrijanab wants to compare Quran which was revealed by Allah (swt) to some obscure book written by someone. The proof of the authenticity of Quran lies in the Quran itself wherein Allah (swt) has said :-"Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (the Qur'an), and indeed it is Us who shall preserve it" (Surah Al-Hijr 15:9).

The preservation of Quran is guaranteed by Allah Himself but the authenticity of bohra books needs verifications from some people of which the vast majority is hardly even aware of !!

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#13

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:07 am

anajmi wrote:Think about the completely idiotic test that you have cooked up for the so called Imam. The Imam in my backyard has access to all the dictionaries in the world on his computer. He can tell me the meaning of any exotic word. Think about a word, the meaning of which even Oxford and Webster do not know and then come and talk to me.
The moment u will become intellectually honest that moment u will convert to Fatimi Dawat. Inshallah.

conduct that test on claimant without him having access to any gadgets/books/resources.

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#14

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:21 am

ghulam muhammed wrote: As anajmi rightly pointed, it is an idiotic statement. Badrijanab wants to compare Quran which was revealed by Allah (swt) to some obscure book written by someone. The proof of the authenticity of Quran lies in the Quran itself wherein Allah (swt) has said :-"Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (the Qur'an), and indeed it is Us who shall preserve it" (Surah Al-Hijr 15:9).

The preservation of Quran is guaranteed by Allah Himself but the authenticity of bohra books needs verifications from some people of which the vast majority is hardly even aware of !!
Does the vast majority have even just one proof to verify text of 15:9 in particular and whole Quran in general - if precisely same was conveyed by Allah (SWT) to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.?

humanbeing
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#15

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 am

badrijanab wrote:The person that is hiding in your backyard ask him meaning of few exotic words from Oxford or webster dictionary should he be able to answer all then we will come to next test. Should he fails in test above then consider his Imamat claim to be false or him akin to your 1,2, & 3.
What are the exotic words you would like to test the Imam with ??
If he fails or passes, what is the next step ! I don’t want to run my imagination, can you help !

Intellect Ehh !!!

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#16

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:10 am

humanbeing wrote:
badrijanab wrote:The person that is hiding in your backyard ask him meaning of few exotic words from Oxford or webster dictionary should he be able to answer all then we will come to next test. Should he fails in test above then consider his Imamat claim to be false or him akin to your 1,2, & 3.
What are the exotic words you would like to test the Imam with ??
If he fails or passes, what is the next step ! I don’t want to run my imagination, can you help !

Intellect Ehh !!!
Does in your backyard u too have a claimant of Imamat like Anajmi does?

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:17 pm

I asked him about all the exotic words from Oxford and Webster and he was able to answer all of them. What should I ask him next? The names of the vampires in the The Twilight Saga? or the witches and wizards in Harry Potter?

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#18

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:44 pm

anajmi wrote:I asked him about all the exotic words from Oxford and Webster and he was able to answer all of them. What should I ask him next? The names of the vampires in the The Twilight Saga? or the witches and wizards in Harry Potter?
If you lied, the punishment per Quran for liers is 'Curse' on you from Allah!

About post above, u may do so or u may check name of Cameramen and makeup men? :)

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:52 pm

I am not lying, there is an Imam in my backyard who knows all exotic words from Oxford and Webster. Now, you have to accept him as your Imam. If you do not, then the curse of Allah will be on you and the curse of all the previous Imams as well will be on you.

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#20

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:12 pm

anajmi wrote:I am not lying, there is an Imam in my backyard who knows all exotic words from Oxford and Webster. Now, you have to accept him as your Imam. If you do not, then the curse of Allah will be on you and the curse of all the previous Imams as well will be on you.
U have the first hand information about Imam, and as you have checked he is so knowledgeable that he knows everything in Oxford and Webster dictionary - so, u must be now convinced about his authenticity so, y don't u pronounce: faith boycott (Baraat) against 1,2, & 3?

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:20 pm

Actually, my Imam has given his bayyah to 1, 2 and 3. Now, if you refuse to accept my Imam as the ultimate authority and swear allegiance to 1, 2 and 3, you will be cursed forever and ever. And remember, my Imam is the true Imam because he knows Oxford and Webster dictionaries.

badrijanab
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#22

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:27 pm

anajmi wrote:Actually, my Imam has given his bayyah to 1, 2 and 3. Now, if you refuse to accept my Imam as the ultimate authority and swear allegiance to 1, 2 and 3, you will be cursed forever and ever. And remember, my Imam is the true Imam because he knows Oxford and Webster dictionaries.
Aaha! then that is not Imam but Satan who came in backyard of his sibling!

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:36 pm

But Satan cannot know the exotic words in Oxford and Webster, can he? If he can, then you are screwed too. :wink:

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#24

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:41 pm

badrijanab wrote:
y don't u pronounce: faith boycott (Baraat) against 1,2, & 3?
Bro anajmi,

The above post was refered to you so why dont you announce "Baraat" of "3 in 1" (1,2, & 3)............ i.e. 1)Mubarak, 2)Doctor and 3)Badrijanab. :mrgreen:

accountability
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#25

Unread post by accountability » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:31 pm

Ikhwan as safa is not encyclopedia, ikhwan as safa was a secret society in 10th century A.D. in basra. they wrote risail ikhwan safa, epistle of brethern of purity. have you read risail, they are available in arabic, and are translated in english. they are amazingly ingenious. if the date of their origin is correct, then they were amazingly wise and inteligent people. epistles deal with astronomy, astrology, chemistry, physics, earth's rotation.
their philosophical teachings are esoteric. if you read risail, porus may have read it, i read it too, i found they were not religious, it actually based socratic philosophy of god and prophets, they called prophets king, but they included socrates, jesus and mohammed as kings. porus if you ever get chance, and if you read it, can you eloberate on first epistle and 10th epistle, i could not understand it fully,
you may be right, risail may be first encylopedia, dealing from creation of universe to the end of time.
but their definition of best man do not suite description of imam ahmed, their definition of perfect man is, persian in origin, of arabic faith, of iraqi babylonian, a disciple of christ in conduct, pious as syrian monk, greek intelectual, indian in mystic.
ikhwan as safa risail are amazing, seems to me an extraterrestial work. it is so amazing, that till now, no body could find out who they were, where they came from, and where they went.

progticide
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#26

Unread post by progticide » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:57 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
badrijanab wrote:
y don't u pronounce: faith boycott (Baraat) against 1,2, & 3?
Bro anajmi,

The above post was refered to you so why dont you announce "Baraat" of "3 in 1" (1,2, & 3)............ i.e. 1)Mubarak, 2)Doctor and 3)Badrijanab. :mrgreen:
Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab

Here's a couplet befitting your current position in the reformist club:


Hume to apno ne luta
Gairon mein kahan dum tha
Meri kishti hi dubi wahan
jahan paani kum thaa


The treatment and responses that you have been receiving from your reformist brothers exhibits the despise and disgust and disrespect they harbour for you and your late master.

The confusion, disunity, mistrust, incoherence of agenda, infighting, abuse and sheer loss of religious direction have become the characteristic features of the reformist movement. And one does not need to visit your jamaats to notice these. These features are all visible on this forum itself.

Read Holy Quran, Surah Al Maidah, Ayat 12 [ Holy Quran 5:12]

anajmi
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:19 pm

After reading 5:12 the conclusion is that the bohras are from the yahudis.

SBM
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Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#28

Unread post by SBM » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:19 pm

Progticide
As for your couplet addressed to Badrijanab it also reflects the feelings of Mazoon as well Shakir of Zahir Batin relatives of current Goons of Saifee mahal, so before pointing one finger remember the other three (in literal sense)points towards you

Humsafar
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#29

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:21 pm

badrijanab,
Yes, Kothar's weakness is religion and that's what the reform movement has been focusing on right from the beginning. The mafia clergy rules by distorting religion and there is ample literature and documented evidence to prove that. Reformists have highlighted these issues all the time, so it is incorrect to say that reformists "officially" are not interested in shariyat.
However, the shariyat you're interested in have to do with FGM and Iddat and such. In the larger context of corruption and usurpation of the community by the mafia clergy, these are minor issues. Reformists do not directly concern themselves with these, and leave to local jamat and even individuals to deal with them. Reformist movement aims to pin and expose the Kothar on major issues of shariyat. Please do not confuse the two. If you've problems with reformists not following the minor arkaans of shariyat then your point might be valid but please do not use your pet peeve to launch an attack on the whole movement and badmouth its leaders.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Weakness of Kothar is "Religion"

#30

Unread post by progticide » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:01 am

Humsafar wrote:badrijanab,
If you've problems with reformists not following the minor arkaans of shariyat then your point might be valid but please do not use your pet peeve to launch an attack on the whole movement and badmouth its leaders.
Humsafar,

Thank you very much for endorsing the fact that the reform/progressive movement has its INDEPENDENT LEADERSHIP and therefore it has nothing whatsoever to do with the matters and affairs of DAWOODI BOHRA COMMUNITY.

Truly appreciate a senior reformist/progressive member like you to have publicly acknowledged and endorsed the fact that reformist/progressive movement operates under an independent leadership and hence this reformist/progressive website does not represent the views and ideas of the DAWOODI BOHRAS and this website is no way associated with DAWOODI BOHRA community.

There is only one DAWOODI BOHRA community under the Headship of Dai-al-Mutlaq Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS), who is the 52nd Dai-al-Mutlaq appointed to this office through an unbroken chain of succession of Dais starting with the First Dai-al-Mutlaq Syedna Zoeb bin Musa, and there is one single administration for managing the affairs of the Dawoodi Bohras under the Headship of the Dai-al-Mutlaq.

Since you have acknowledged that the reform/progressive movement has its seperate leaders, you have voluntarily distanced and disassociated yourselves from the DAWOODI BOHRA COMMUNITY.


Any person or body or website functioning outside the auspices of the office of the Dai-al-Mutlaq of Dawoodi Bohras should therefore not be mistaken to be associated with Dawoodi Bohra community by default.

Thank you once again for this clarification and removing the confusion about this website in particular, and the reform/progressive movement in general, being wrongly associated with Dawoodi Bohra affairs.