Milli Gazette article on Bohras

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S. Insaf
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Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:23 pm

Milli Gazette - Delhi in its issue of 1-15 December issue has published my article "Bohras: An Islamic sect reduced to a cult."

badrijanab
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#2

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:30 pm

S. Insaf wrote:Milli Gazette - Delhi in its issue of 1-15 December issue has published my article "Bohras: An Islamic sect reduced to a cult."
Janab Insaaf sahab, "Bohra sect is NOT reduced to cult", only the misguided followers of Kothar may have become cult. But not the Bohra sect as a whole. Remember u to are supposed to be the Bohra. Are you Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia or not?

Muslim First
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Bohra: an Islamic sect reduced to a cult

#3

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:11 pm

Bohra: an Islamic sect reduced to a cult
http://www.milligazette.com/news/4583-b ... -to-a-cult

Bohra: an Islamic sect reduced to a cult. The Milli Gazette. Published Online: Dec 01, 2012. Print Issue: 1-15 December 2012. By Saifuddin Insaf.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#4

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:49 am

S. Insaf wrote:Milli Gazette - Delhi in its issue of 1-15 December issue has published my article "Bohras: An Islamic sect reduced to a cult."
bhai insaf,

a most hearty welcome back! i hope you are keeping well, may allah shower his benedictions on you.

can you please copy paste the article here or provide a link?

badrijanab,

do you always have to counter everything and be so belligerent? you know very well what bhai s. insaf means when he mentions bohra cult. it is clear to everyone who visits this forum or otherwise, that the term 'dawoodi bohras' in today's context refers to the abde bohras enslaved by the syedna. the udaipuri bohras and others who have officially left the cult and either joined the reformists or remain independent, call themselves simply 'reformist bohras' or 'progressives'.

no aspersions are meant to be cast on those valiant udaipuris or reformists all over the world who refuse to follow the dai's diktats and be exploited and humiliated, when the general term dawoodi bohras is used. so take it easy and calm down for god's sake!

badrijanab
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#5

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:08 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote: you know very well what bhai s. insaf means when he mentions bohra cult. it is clear to everyone who visits this forum or otherwise, that the term 'dawoodi bohras' in today's context refers to the abde bohras enslaved by the syedna. the udaipuri bohras and others who have officially left the cult and either joined the reformists or remain independent, call themselves simply 'reformist bohras' or 'progressives'.

no aspersions are meant to be cast on those valiant udaipuris or reformists all over the world who refuse to follow the dai's diktats and be exploited and humiliated, when the general term dawoodi bohras is used. so take it easy and calm down for god's sake!
Bhai Al Zulfiquar sahab,

1. Should Insaaf sahab or anyone like to refer cult then they must only use words similar to following, "conned followers of misguided Kothar". But to refer 'Bohra' as "Cult" is saying bad words to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. and his progeny of Fatimi Imams a.s. It is expected that a senior like Insaaf sahab ought to know such technical points. Moreover, if Insaaf sahab has meant to refer 'conned followers' then he should use words likewise, by using word "Bohra Cult" he has done sin. Bohra Youth (progressives) disown Insaaf sahab statements.

2. Please be advised there is no official terms like "Progressive" or "Reformist" Bohras. These may the qualities you may associate with its members, though subjective. And Bohra Youth has not left any 'cult', the #1 rule of CBDBC is they recognize (misguided) Kothar in the same fashion as Bohra Shabab does. Only Roshan Khayal Jamat of Malegaon some 80 years back have kicked out Kothar from Dawoodi Bohra fold followed by Bohra Youth Surat (Gujrat) which too kicked Kothar out of Dawoodi Bohra fold even before the bloody episode of Udaipur in 1970's.

First loyalty must be with: Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia (Fatimi Imamat/Dawat). Do not supersede black clouds of 'tyranny of Kothar' over your first loyalty.

badrijanab
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#6

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:24 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
bhai insaf,

a most hearty welcome back! i hope you are keeping well, may allah shower his benedictions on you.
Amin.

Fateh
Posts: 303
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#7

Unread post by Fateh » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 am

Yes i am also agree with bhai Badarijanab ,as i also believe that we all are first Muslims following shia ismaili mustaali tayyabi dawoodi bohara faith.We all wants reform in our financial system lead by kothar,do not want reform in our religious roots of Islam.Kothar divert our original principles of Islam for their evil intention to earn money like muavia & pheroh of Egypt.


S. Insaf
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#9

Unread post by S. Insaf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:06 pm

Bohra: an Islamic sect reduced to a cult
The Milli Gazette
Published Online: Dec 01, 2012
Print Issue: 1-15 December 2012
By Saifuddin Insaf

The Milli Gazette is a magazine widely read in the Muslim World. In its recent issue of 16-31 October, 2012 it has published an article “The Wizard of Gujarat” by Mr. Yunus Chitalwala. In this article the writer has said that “Bohras do not represent the mainstream Muslim community”. In other words, Dawoodi Bohras have separated themselves from the mainstream Islam.
Mr. A. G. Noorani, an advocate in the Supreme Court of India and a leading constitutional expert, after going through the Justice Nathwani Commission report in 1980, had commented on the un-Islamic practices of the Dawoodi Bohra priestly class saying, “The practices which the Commission report has exposed are totally opposed to Islam and it would be suicidal of Muslims to show any sympathy for the Dawoodi Bohra priesthood.”

Many Muslims, like Farooq Abdul Gaffar Bawani (Rajkot Gujarat), are raising questions as to what is wrong with Dawoodi Bohra community? Why have Dawoodi Bohras separated themselves from the rest of the Muslims? Who is the think tank of Dawoodi Bohras? What is the role of the religious head H. H. Dr. Syedna Saheb in this state of affairs? What may be the hidden agenda of H. H. Dr. Syedna Saheb and his followers for adopting such an approach?

Before the Justice Nathwani Commission report, Muslim leaders, ulama and community members were not aware of the un-Islamic practices and sins of idolatry (Shirk, i.e., associating Syedna with Allah) practiced by the Bohra Syedna and his family members within the four walls of the Bohra community.

That is why Dawoodi Bohra priesthood did not want their un-Islamic practices and atrocities to come into public. Therefore, as soon as the appointment of an Enquiry Commission was announced, the Bohra priesthood’s entire machinery was geared up to raise a worldwide hue and cry against the commission. Slogans of “Islam in danger” and “Interference in Islamic Shariah” were shouted everywhere demanding a ban on the commission. The Dawoodi Bohra priestly class tried to enlist the support of the Muslim Personal Law Board, Central Hajj Committee, Shahi Imam of Delhi, Mufti Ateequr Rehman Usmani etc. In spite of violent opposition and all odds, members of the Commission, which included two Islamic scholars Dr. Alam Khundmiri and Dr. Moin Shakir, remained firm and completed their inquiry and made its report public. The authenticity of this report is evident from the fact that the filthy rich Bohra priesthood, who has a troop of best legal experts, could not dare to challenge this report till today.

The Dawoodi Bohra priesthood has always used Muslims to safeguard its interests and power. But it has not joined and helped Muslims in any welfare activity and humanitarian work, victims of riots and violence, participating in events like Miladun Nabi, peace committees, Babri Masjid agitation etc.

Two inquiry commissions have been appointed to look into the malpractices and violation of human rights of Dawoodi Bohras. The first commission was appointed under the chairmanship of Justice Nathawani by the Citizens for Democracy and the second one was appointed under the chairmanship of Justice Tevatia by Indian Peoples’ Human Rights Commission. After the eye-opening exposure by these two Commissions’ reports, Muslims started distancing themselves from the tyrant and idolater Bohra priesthood and started forming an opinion like the one expressed by Mr Yunus Chitalwala. Loss of Muslim support compelled the Bohra priestly class to seek support of Hindus and hardcore Hidutwa leaders like Narendra Modi, LK Advani, Bal Thackeray etc.

The Dawoodi Bohra priesthood’s conscious gameplan to safeguard its vested interests can be justified but the question is: why Dawoodi Bohras separated themselves from the Muslim mainstream?

I am a Dawoodi Bohra myself. I am sure that till recently we, Dawoodi Bohras, used to believe that we are Muslims first and Shia-Ismaili-Must’alian-Tayyebi second. Islam is our fundamental faith. All our Shia-Ismaili-Must’alian-Tayyebi doctrines are based on Islamic teachings and Qur’anic injunctions and whatever is against Islam and Qur’an cannot be a part of our faith. We, undoubtedly believe in the Qur’an, which is the source of our law, and the Prophet of Islam (pbuh) who is our true guide. We were strict followers of Islamic practices.

While the worshipers of Syedna still claim to be Muslim, they have gradually deviated fundamentally from the teachings and practices of Islam ever since their 51st Da’i, Syedna Taher Saifuddin, occupied the seat of Dawat in 1915. Dawoodi Bohra Da’is, till 50th Da’I, were poor and indebted. Whereas the 51st Da’i, Syedna Taher Saifuddin was full of worldly ambitions, wealth, luxury and fame. He wanted to live as a monarch and thus he moved unabashedly to build his financial empire destroying the spirit and norms of Islam and Isma’ilism giving it an absolute authoritarian character. This caused, and is still causing, many problems in this peace-loving community. There is no priesthood in Islam as religious functions can be performed by any ordinary Muslim. The priesthood is absent in all other Islamic sects. The same was the case in Dawoodi Bohra community till the emergence of the 50th Da’i.

To establish his absolute authoritarian control over the Bohra community, Syedna Taher Saifuddin went to the extent of claiming that he is “Elahul-Ard” (God on this earth) (na’udhu billah) and that he has powers equal to that of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and that he is accountable to no one and that he is master of the soul, mind, body and properties of his followers. He made it compulsory that every Bohra should call him/herself as “Slave of Sayedna” (Abd-e Sayedna / Amat-e Syedna) and perform “Sajda-e ‘Ubudiyat” in front of him. He also claimed that he is “Qur’an-e Natiq (speaking Qur'an) (na’udhu billah) and that the Quran in the present book form is a dead book (na’udhu billah).

Taher Saifuddin called himself “Da’i-ul-Mutlaq” (Absolute Da’i) and Sultan of the Bohras. He introduced an oath (Misaq) which is compulsory for every Bohra to offer to the Da’i. The harsh conditions in Misaq made it an instrument of punishment. He started a practice of “Jama’at kharij” (excommunication), thus enslaving the entire community.

He also introduced a system of seeking his Raza (permission) for all religious as well as secular matters. Namaz, Hajj, Zakat etc., which are obligatory according to Islam and Quran for every Muslim, were declared unacceptable to Allah if done without the prior permission (Raza) of Syedna.

Very systematically, the class of Bohra ulama (learned persons) was eliminated by awarding the titles of Mullas and Shaikhs to undeserving and ignorant persons who could offer huge sums of cash to the Da’i.

By consolidating his absolute authority and becoming from Da’i-ul-Mutlaq to Qaderul-Mutlaq (Absolute in might), he took hold of all the trusts, properties and wealth of community and adopted a luxurious life of living in palaces, high-flying and big-spending.

His son and 52nd Da’i, Mohammad Burhanuddin, not only followed his father but deviated further and used this centralized structure to his advantage making it more and more authoritarian by introducing a particular dress code for Dawoodi Bohra males, females and children, E-Jamaat cards which is a deadly weapon of Jamaat kharij - called “Baraat” - in its latest version. Thus, the Ismaili mission which played a very important role by attempting a creative intellectual synthesis of philosophy and the teachings of Islam has now been reduced to a cult.

The present 52nd Da’i has further taken the community away from Islam by declaring himself as the sole-owner of Bohra mosques and the sole-trustee of the community’s charitable properties. Under his ownership, Bohra mosques have become a playground for organizing birthday functions, cutting cakes, serving jamans [community dinner], arranging vadhavnis [Aarti of Syedna saheb], qadambosi, najwa [private meeting] and salam functions, mass marriages, meetings of politicians, putting cinema screen, video shooting, fund collection and lottery draws. Now even musalla spaces are priced and reserved, thus killing the very spirit of namaz.

To hide these un-Islamic practices from other Muslims, the doors of Dawoodi Bohra masjids are permanently closed for non-Dawoodi Bohras. Further, to plug any loophole in the system, a particular dress code and Jamaat identity cards are made compulsory. Even in Mecca, during Hajj, Dawoodi Bohras are ordered not to join other Muslims either in Tawaf or Namaz.

Deliberate rifts are created between Dawoodi Bohras and other Muslims in order to keep them separate from each other. In 1988, Syedna Burhanuddin cursed Muslim caliphs (R.A.) and Hazrat Aisha Siddiqah (R.A.) openly during Moharram, causing a riot in Mumbai, in which five innocent Muslims lost their lives and properties worth lakhs of rupees were destroyed.

Dawoodi Bohra Da’i has given up the principle of accountability which is so central in Islam and which was followed by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his Ahl-e bait most vigorously. Now-a-days he and Bohras worshipping him are often seen in the company of anti-Muslim Hindu leaders like LK Advani, Narendra Modi, Bal Thakarey etc.

The earlier ‘Islamic sect’ is now reduced to a ‘cult’ with all the components of a cult, namely the Dawoodi Bohras are intensely devoted to the cult-head and they worship him. They follow a system of beliefs and rituals which are bogus though they claim that their system is most authentic and superior to that of other Muslims.

A large majority of cultic Bohras and their supporter Muslims are fully aware of the extent to which Bohras have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. Their social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioural patterns are commonly found in cultic environments. The present Dawoodi Bohra Da’i dictates, in great detail, how members should think, act and feel, how they must get permission to observe prayers, Hajj, change jobs, marry, what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so on and so forth. Dawoodi Bohras feel there can be no life outside the walls of their community. These are visible components of a cult which are against Islam.

Should Dawoodi Bohra priesthood headed by Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin be treated as Muslims or not and whether they should be expelled from the pale of Islam or not? This is a question for the Muslim ulama to think seriously.
The writer is Editor, Bohra Chronicle, Mumbai
This article appeared in The Milli Gazette print issue of 1-15 December 2012 on page no. 2

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#10

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:35 pm

insaf saheb,

if i could, i would give 10 'likes' to this article, which very succinctly outlines all that ails our community. that too in a very systematic and concise manner, couched in factual and polite language and approach.

kudos to you for having written this article, and bravo also to milli gazette for having the guts and moral righteousness to publish it verbatim, without getting influenced or scared by kothar's money power and evil influence.

may you live long insaf bhai. just one of your posts does more damage to the authoritarian kothar than a hundred posts of the rest of us combined.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#11

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:50 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:insaf saheb,

if i could, i would give 10 'likes' to this article, which very succinctly outlines all that ails our community. that too in a very systematic and concise manner, couched in factual and polite language and approach.

kudos to you for having written this article, and bravo also to milli gazette for having the guts and moral righteousness to publish it verbatim, without getting influenced or scared by kothar's money power and evil influence.

may you live long insaf bhai. just one of your posts does more damage to the authoritarian kothar than a hundred posts of the rest of us combined.
And what is the readership of this rag?

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#12

Unread post by progticide » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:22 am

S. Insaf wrote: There is no priesthood in Islam as religious functions can be performed by any ordinary Muslim. The priesthood is absent in all other Islamic sects. The same was the case in Dawoodi Bohra community till the emergence of the 50th Da’i.
Jaahil,
First educate yourself on Islam properly before teaching others about what is present and absent in Islam.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#13

Unread post by progticide » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:32 am

progticide wrote:
S. Insaf wrote: There is no priesthood in Islam as religious functions can be performed by any ordinary Muslim. The priesthood is absent in all other Islamic sects. The same was the case in Dawoodi Bohra community till the emergence of the 50th Da’i.
Jaahil,
First educate yourself on Islam properly before teaching others about what is present and absent in Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi

Leadership structure

In contrast to the Bektashi tariqa, which like other Sufi orders is based on a silsila "initiatory chain or lineage" of teachers and their students, Alevi leaders succeed to their role on the basis of family descent. Perhaps ten percent of Alevis belong to a religious elite called ocak "hearth", indicating descent from ʻAlī and/or various other saints and heroes. Ocak members are called ocakzades or "sons of the hearth". This system apparently originated with Safavid Persia.

Alevi leaders are variously called murshid, pir, rehber or dede. Groups that conceive of these as ranks of a hierarchy (as in the Bektashi tariqa) disagree as to the order. The last of these, dede "grandfather", is the term preferred by the scholarly literature. Ocakzades may attain to the position of dede on the basis of selection (by a father from among several sons), character, and learning. In contrast to Alevi rhetoric on the equality of the sexes, it is generally assumed that only males may fill such leadership roles.

Traditionally dedes did not merely lead rituals, but led their communities, often in conjunction with local notables such as the ağas (large landowners) of the Dersim Region. They also acted as judges or arbiters, presiding over village courts called Düşkünlük Meydanı.

Ordinary Alevi would owe allegiance to a particular dede lineage (but not others) on the basis of pre-existing family or village relations. Some fall instead under the authority of Bektashi dargah (lodges).

khudaparast
Posts: 103
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#14

Unread post by khudaparast » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:26 am

^ one thing is sure, u are a true abde, why?

coz u are as shameless as your leader mb and mufaddal....how on earth can u defend some body who is openly violating ISLAMIC values in society? and till now I was wondering how come some people praise yazeed, but after reading your shameless comments, I am sure yazeed did manage to gather some IDIOTS same like you.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#15

Unread post by progticide » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:23 am

S. Insaf wrote: Muslim caliphs (R.A.) and Hazrat Aisha Siddiqah (R.A.)
This shows what is your real hidden agenda under the banner of reforms.....niyat kuch aur, nishaana kuch aur...

Afsos, Teri asli tamannaye aur fitrat kya he iska andaaza tere saath chalnewaalo ko nahi he. :(

Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a. Badrijanab.....ab Ameen nahi kahoge.....

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#16

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:35 am

Prog, bardijanab, Phoenix , whoever your comments are not required and your views are noise.

Some of my progs enjoy teasing you and you react with your outbursts typically...can you find something better to do this is a polite way to let you know you are unwelcome. Your theories do not make any difference in our resolve

Are you really here to prevent Abdes getting converted and trying to herd them back ? Or you want to throw punches because your masters have told you to brawl to look like your are defending your moulas Shan ?

Which ever role you are playing here your are game.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#17

Unread post by progticide » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:30 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Prog, bardijanab, Phoenix , whoever your comments are not required and your views are noise.
Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab,
After Humsafar, Biradar & AZ, even this hobbit has now given you a BOOT on your backside. Your following is dwindling like Autumn leaves.

Look at you; Aapki halat toh dhobi ke kutte se bhi kharaab ho gayee he....Na ghar ka na ghaat ka.....hahahaha... :lol:
ozmujaheed wrote:Which ever role you are playing here your are pest!
Mr. M,
What are you? Only a VIRUS, that devours the host that it lives in.

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#18

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:35 am

Progticide
Once again can you tell us from Moula Ali and Imam Hussain's writings or saying if they support the current life style of Syedna and Kothari Goons
I asked you and your Master Adam about this but you never replied.

anajmi
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:43 am

Please be advised there is no official terms like "Progressive" or "Reformist" Bohras.
Janab badrijanab sahib.

Yeh kehte hue aapko sharm nahin aayi? Jis tarah bohrion mein "Progressive" aur "Reformist" official term nahin hai usi tarah se Islam mein "Dawoodi Bohra" official term nahin hai!!

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#20

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 am

anajmi wrote:
Please be advised there is no official terms like "Progressive" or "Reformist" Bohras.
Janab badrijanab sahib.

Yeh kehte hue aapko sharm nahin aayi? Jis tarah bohrion mein "Progressive" aur "Reformist" official term nahin hai usi tarah se Islam mein "Dawoodi Bohra" official term nahin hai!!
Naam sirf pehchaan ke liye hota hai. Aaj Islam me senkro (hundreds) sects he is me kisi ko aboriginal Islam dekhna he to usko "Dawoodi Bohra" keh kar pehchana jata he.

Aapke 2nd ne Tarawi ki "achchi biddati" namaz Islam me invent ki! Magar khud kabhi nahi padhai kyonki usko padhane ke liye Quran poora yaad hona chahiye. Aapki Bukhar, Muslim, Sunnan Abu Dawood me kahi bhi eik rivayat nahi he ki aapke 2nd and 3rd ne eik baar bhi Dharawi ki namaz padhai ho. Jab aapke Sunni and alike sects ke beginning of beginning yaani 1/2/3 ko Quran hi yaad nahi he to aap in teeno ko Quran laane wale Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. ka waaris batate ho - aisa kehne me aapko sharam nahi aati?

anajmi
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Naam sirf pehchaan ke liye hota hai. Aaj Islam me senkro (hundreds) sects he is me kisi ko aboriginal Islam dekhna he to usko "Dawoodi Bohra" keh kar pehchana jata he.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: Dawoodi Bohra kaha jaana Islam ki pehchaan nahin, Syedna pujari hone ki pehchaan hai. Bewaqufi ki baatein karna bandh karo. Dawoodi Bohra ko to Islam ke dushman bhi nahin pahechante. Asli musalmaan ko pehchaan na ho to Islam ke dushmanon se pucho. Dawoodi Bohra kisi ginti mein nahin aata.
Naam sirf pehchaan ke liye hota hai.
To phir "reformist" aur "progressive" se aap ko kyon naa pasandi hai? Gadhon ko Dawoodi kaho yaa Alavi kaho wo rahenge to gadhe hee.

badrijanab
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#22

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:31 pm

anajmi wrote: Dawoodi Bohra ko to Islam ke dushman bhi nahin pahechante. Asli musalmaan ko pehchaan na ho to Islam ke dushmanon se pucho. Dawoodi Bohra kisi ginti mein nahin aata.
Kisi bhi sect ki ginti kam ya jayada hone se unke sahi ya galat hone ka pata nahi chalta. Muslims to Christians se kam he to kya latter sahi aur former galat ho gaye?! Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said only follower of one sect will go to paradise, and followers of rest all 71 sects will end in hell. So, only 1.37% (1/73) will go to paradise: itna chhota amount (1.37%) kisi ginti me hi nahi aata!

anajmi wrote:Gadhon ko Dawoodi kaho yaa Alavi kaho wo rahenge to gadhe hee.
Aap DB ko ghadha ya koi bhi gaaliyan dijiye, mooh aapka hi kharab hoga, aur aapke gadha bolne se DB ki shaan me kami nahi aati theek waise hi jese log Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. ko gaaliyan bolte, yaha tak ki aapko 'jaadugar' aur 'paagal' bhi bola (mazallah) - in gaaliyon se koi Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. ki shaan kam nahi hoti.

Now stop beating around bush and be aware: aapke 1/2/3 ko Quran to yaad nahi aur aap unko Quran laane waale ka waris maan rahe ho! Hanste he Islam ke dushman aapki is bewkoofi se saare aalam-a-Islam per!

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#23

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:40 pm

pheonix wrote: And what is the readership of this rag?
talk of khattey angoor! if this gazette had written an article on syedna (if it could be bribed), then you would be praising it to the skies and jumping in glee like a naked derwish, but because it dares to publish true facts, it now becomes a rag?

slave bohra, with this shameless statement you have proved that you do not have even the tiny shred of a rag to cover your nangapan!


anajmi
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#24

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:55 pm

Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said only follower of one sect will go to paradise, and followers of rest all 71 sects will end in hell. So, only 1.37% (1/73) will go to paradise: itna chhota amount (1.37%) kisi ginti me hi nahi aata!
Isse pata chalta hai ki aapki samajh mein kitni kami hai. Maine jab ginti ki baat ki to mera matlab numeric ginti ka nahin tha. Par yeh baat aapki samajh mein nahin aani thi!! Dawoodion ki ginti na musalmaanon mein hoti hai, na veeron mein hoti hai, na bade daaniyon mein hoti. Dawoodion ki ginti sabse jyaada Syedna ke pujariyon mein hoti hai!!

Maine db ko gadha nahin kaha. Maine gadhe ko db kaha or alavi bhi kaha, par chor ki dhadi mein tinke waali baat to aapne suni hogi, kyon?

1/2/3 ko Quran yaad hone se ya na hone se koi farq nahin padhta. Baat yeh hai ki Allah aur uske rasul ne kabhi dawoodi ya alavi ka zikr kahin par kiya hai? Nahin!! Yeh sab man ghadath kahaniyaan logon ne apna apna ulloo sidhaa karne ke liye banaee hai aur aap jaise na samajh logon ko ulloo banaya hai!!

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#25

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:23 pm

anajmi wrote: 1/2/3 ko Quran yaad hone se ya na hone se koi farq nahin padhta.
Aqalmando ko farq padhta he. 1/2/3 ko Quran maloom nahi to woh laayak hi nahi ke Quran laane wale Nabi Mohammed s.a.w.w. ke successor bane!

Nabi Sahab ke waaris to sirf Ameer al Momineen Mola Ali a.s. hi ho sakte he jinhone daawa kiya, "Pooch lo muzse jo kuch poochna chahate ho, isse pehle ki me tumhare darmiyaan na rahu. Quran ke do (2) puththo ke beech me jo ilm he woh muze sara maloom he."

Form Quran Wisdom wise: 1/2/3 v/s Mola Ali a.s. = ounce v/s TON. That's why your 2nd use to say, "Agar Ali na hote to 2nd halaak ho gaya hota!" Thus, Ameer Al Momineen Ali a.s. Quranic wisdom wise is superior than 1/2/3. So, after Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. Mola Ali a.s. is the only deserving person to give Islamic judgement but 1/2/3 usurped this right of Mola Ali a.s. and without authorization from Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. started invention in Islamic Shariat!

anajmi
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:06 pm

Waris waris ki lat kab tak lagate rahoge? Islam kisiki ya kisike baap ki virasat nahin hai. Virasat kaa shaukh butt pujariyon ko hota hai, sachche musalmaanon ko nahin. Hz Ali ko virasat ka shaukh nahin tha par unke puj ne waale gumraah nikle. Ab jaake yeh pataa karo ki Allah aur Allah ke rasul ne Dawoodi Bohra ki pehchaan Quran ke kis panne pe karayi hai. Agar nahin bata sake to chullu bhar paani ka intezaam kar lo!!

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#27

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:50 pm

anajmi wrote: Waris waris ki lat kab tak lagate rahoge? Islam kisiki ya kisike baap ki virasat nahin hai. Virasat kaa shaukh butt pujariyon ko hota hai, sachche musalmaanon ko nahin. Hz Ali ko virasat ka shaukh nahin tha par unke puj ne waale gumraah nikle.


Islam ke 'Sardaar' (Ameer) mulk ki 'Badshaahi' ke mohtaaz nahi he. Magar Islam ki 'Sardaari' historical facts se sabit hoti he ki 'Wirasat' ke form me hi he. Example) Nabi Ibrahim a.s. ne apne bete Ismail a.s. ko Islam ka 'Sardaar' banaya na ki public per chhod diya ki woh Islam ke liye sardaar ko elect kare.

1/2/3 beshaq Khaleefa (Baadshah) he magar same like Shiva Ji Raje ya Maharana Pratap. 1/2/3 ka koi religious status nahi he. Islam ki 'Ameeriyat' (sardari) Nabi Mohammed ne Mola Ali a.s. ko virasat ki. To yaqeenan, Islam me Sardari Fatimi Imamo ki virasat he. [Islam ki sardaari aur mulk ki sardaari - dono alag alag matter he. 1/2/3 mulk ke sardar the jabki Mola Ali Islam ke sardar (ameer) the].
anajmi wrote:Ab jaake yeh pataa karo ki Allah aur Allah ke rasul ne Dawoodi Bohra ki pehchaan Quran ke kis panne pe karayi hai. Agar nahin bata sake to chullu bhar paani ka intezaam kar lo!!
Mr. Anajmi sahab, aap yeh sawal to aisi dileri se pooch rahe he jaise Quran ke har sura me following naam likhe ho - Wahabi, Deoband, Barelvi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafai, Hanafi, etc - Agar nahin bata sake to chullu bhar paani ka intezaam kar lo!!!
Last edited by badrijanab on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Nabi Ibrahim a.s. ne apne bete Ismail a.s. ko Islam ka 'Sardaar' banaya na ki public per chhod diya ki woh Islam ke liye sardaar ko elect kare.
Aur is baat ki sabati Quran se milti hai. Apni baat ki sabiti bhi Quran se lakar dikha do.
Mr. Anajmi sahab, aap yeh sawal to aisi dileri se pooch rahe he jaise Quran ke har sura me following naam likhe ho - Wahabi, Deoband, Barelvi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafai, Hanafi, etc - Agar nahin bata sake to chullu bhar paani ka intezaam kar lo!!!
Yahan par to aapko maat dena bahut aasaan ho gaya. Na main Wahhabi hone ka dawaa karta hoon, na Deobandi, na barelvi, na hanbali, na malike, na shafi aur na Hanafi. Main yeh bhi nahin kehta ki in mein se koyi asli Islam ka thekedaar hai. Main sirf Musalmaan hone kaa dawa karta hoon. Aap Dawoodi hone ka dawa karte hain!! Ab batao, chullu bhar paani manga doon aap ke liye? :wink:

badrijanab
Posts: 809
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Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#29

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:48 pm

anajmi wrote: Main sirf Musalmaan hone kaa dawa karta hoon. Aap Dawoodi hone ka dawa karte hain!!
"Musalmaan" ka literal meaning he 'follower'. Jo Rasool s.a.w.w. ko follow kare.

Jo Hadees Rasool s.a.w.w. ne Ali a.s. se kahi - yeh jaroori nahi ki logo ne woh sab kuch suna ho. Lekin Nabi ne jo publically Hadees kahi he un sabko Mola Ali a.s. ne bhi suna he = Mola Ali a.s. ke paas complete Hadees ka knowledge he. AAJ TAK KOI YEH SABIT NAHI KAR SAKA KI MOLA ALI A.S. NE KABHI KOI GALTI KI HO. Lihaza, jab Mola Ali a.s. un Hadeeso ko relay karenge to precisely waise hi karenge jesa Rasool Allah ne kiya tha. AAJ TAK KOI YEH SABIT NAHI KAR PAYA KI IMAM HUSSAIN A.S. NE KABHI KOI GALTI KI HO. Mola Ali a.s. ne Imam Hussain a.s. ko apna waris banaya to ab Hussain a.s. jab Hadees relay karenge to waise hi karenge jaise khud Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. ne originally ki thi.....

Q) Rasool s.a.w.w. ne kya kaha ya kiya - yeh kese pata lagega?
A) Mote taur per 3 sources he:
[1] Nabi sahab ke two hundred fifty years baad - general public se - conveyed over many mouths over several generations - unrealiable source se - corrupted collection of Hadees by Bukhari & Muslim - yeh dono ne Abbasi Cliphate ki political requirement ke chalte Hadeese forge ki aur un nakli hadees per lable chipka diya ki Nabi sahab s.a.w.w. ni yeh Hadees ki he!!! Yeh Masoom to the nahi - Hadees collection me galti kar sakte he - kon si hadees sahi he ya galat he - kuch maloom nahi. Hence, Bukhari & Muslim are not authentic and trustworthy source to learn Hadees of Nabi to become 'Musalmaan'.

[2] Ithna Asheri ke Kulayni (Usul-a-Kaafi) ki Raam Kahani bhi Bukhari jesi he. Woh bhi rejected.

[3] Jesa humne above dekha ki Mola Ali a.s. ke paas consolidated collection he only true Hadees ka - Ali a.s. ne isko virasat kiya apne bete Hasan / Hussain, unhone ussi Rasool ke Ilm/hadees ko virasat di apne bete Imam Zainul Abedeen ko......

To Musalmaan hone ke liye woh karna padta he jo Rasool s.a.w.w. ne kiya - iski sahi jaankari milegi Mola Ali a.s. aur aapki Fatimi Ismaili farzando se - jo is ko maanta he woh Bohra Shia kehlata he.

Aap ne Rasool s.a.w.w. ki Hadeeso ki jaankari corrupted source [1] se li he! Yaani aap HONEST WRONG BELIEF ka shikaar ho! Lihaza aap ya [1] & [2] ko follow karne wale by default sachche Musalmaan nahi he.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Milli Gazette article on Bohras

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:01 pm

To iska matlab yeh hai ki agar koi Deobandi Hz Ali ko follow karta hai to woh sahi musalmaan hoga ya dawoodi bohra hoga?

Jawab dene se pehle, chullu bhar paani ka bandobast kar lo!!
jo is ko maanta he woh Bohra Shia kehlata he.
Musalmaan kehlaane ke badle yeh bohra shia kyon kehlaata hai? Bohra shia kaa naam Quran mein kahin nazar aya hai aapko? Kya yeh naam aapko Hz Ali ne diya hai? Yaa Imam Hussain ne diya? Kya yeh naam aapko Zainul Abideen ne diya hai? Jab in logon ne aapko aapka sahi naam tak nahin diya, to sahi hadees kahan se denge? Kya "bohra shia" naam un hadeeson mein kahin likha hai?

Aapko hadees kisne sunai? Mola Ali ko to jaake 1400 baras ho gaye!! Aaj aapke Imam ghaib hain aur Dai choron kaa sardaar hai. Mera Imam mere backyard mein hai. Woh Imam, oxford aur Webster bhi jaanta hai. Matlab yeh hai ki main jo hadees aapko bataa rahaa hoon woh hi sahii hai.

Ab chullu bhar paani lo aur usme doob maro!!