Moti-us-swalak Fasting

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Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Moti-us-swalak Fasting

#91

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:17 pm

Humsafar,

What porus wrote is bs. I guarantee you, he has no evidence for any of his claims. Can he bring any evidence that when any prophet spoke about experienceing God, it was all conjecture? Why does "inspiration", "intuition" and "thinking out of the box" always result in the experiencing of God and never tiny green men from mars? I wonder, where does all the taawil come from!!

You should take porus' advise and stop wasting both our time.



Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

#92

Unread post by Danish » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:32 pm

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
Why does "inspiration", "intuition" and "thinking out of the box" always result in the experiencing of God and never tiny green men from mars?
That is because the tiny green men are your own invented imaginations CREATED in your mind and residing in Mars, just like your Allah imagined, created, residing and locked up at Mecca. You still haven't understood the phrases: "THERE IS NO GOD......but GOD" and that "NEVER DID HE BEGET NOR WAS HE BEGOTTEN" along with all other man-made invented atttributes, such as the 99 name of Allah.



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#93

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:22 pm

If God does not exist, then nothing was created. Everything came into existence because of an accident. If that is the case, then we are all uncreated, hence according to porus' logic we shouldn't be able to experience each other!! So the fact that we are able to experience each other proves the existence of God.



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#94

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:55 pm

Anajmi,

No matter what anybody - prophets, priests or punters - say about god, it is always going to be a conjecture. Because nobody knows. Nobody can ever know. Besides, the idea of God is a human construct, a way to rationalise their place in the universe and give meaning and purpose to their otherwise insignificant lives. Hence the very idea of proving or disproving the existence of god is meaningless.

The closest humans have come to "understanding" god - i.e. understanding the true nature of reality - is through spiritual awakening.



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#95

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:54 pm

Humsafar,
No matter what anybody - prophets, priests or punters - say about god, it is always going to be a conjecture. Because nobody knows.
So you say, without any evidence mind you. When you say "nobody knows", that is a lie. Only you don't know. That is the only person you can talk about, yourself!! Without God, there can be no "spiritual awakening". There can be no "spiritual awakening" without a spirit involved in the awakening!!



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#96

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:02 pm

The Spirit is the result of awakening.



Safiuddin
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:01 am

#97

Unread post by Safiuddin » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:21 am

AAB,
So you say, without any evidence mind you. When you say "nobody knows", that is a lie. Only you don't know.
Since Humsafar doesn't know, would you please tell him - since you know. Also please tell me - I also don't know.

In order to accept your argument, one would have to buy into the theory that a supreme being created the planet over 5 billion years ago, droppped man down into it around 10,000 years ago, and now is commanding all of nature and mankind.

And since mankind created the supreme being and diety, how do you prove that there is one?

The work of scientists around the globe confirm the work of natural phenomena, presence of random chance, evolutionary processes such as the erosion of the Grand Canyon gorge, the finding of African soil on top of Matterhorn, etc. as the processes of the planet. These things can be proven with clear hard evidence.

You'll have to do better than that to convince me about something completely the invention of humans.



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#98

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:31 pm

Safiuddin,

I did already tell you. I also told you that your faithlessness is not my problem, its yours. Unlike the christians, I will not argue that there is no evolution. There absolutely is evolution. And it doesn't prove that God does not exist. God is the one that created evolution. He even allowed some monkeys to evolve into humans.

And dear brother Safiuddin, I don't want to do better to try to convince you of anything. I got better things to do.



Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

#99

Unread post by Danish » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:04 am

There absolutely is evolution. And it doesn't prove that God does not exist. God is the one that created evolution. He even allowed some monkeys to evolve into humans.
But as per Allah (Muhammad) in the your Quran, there is no evolution since the LAWS OF NATURE do not change and are absolute.



Safiuddin
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:01 am

#100

Unread post by Safiuddin » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 am

Above average bohra please don't run away with that kind of answer. You're above average after all - aren't you?



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#101

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:25 pm

Safiuddin,

I got other things to do than to wait for a response from you for 9 days. Next time you want to have a discussion, try not to keep people waiting. It's a good thing I am not one of your patients!!



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#102

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:27 pm

Danish,

There is no cure for ignorance.



Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

#103

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:13 am

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
Danish,

There is no cure for ignorance.
Certainly agree. ;)



Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

#104

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:55 pm

Good. It's a first step towards straightening your sorry a s s.



Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

#105

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:37 pm

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
Good. It's a first step towards straightening your sorry a s s.
Wrong. I wasn't sorry, just agreed to the ignorance bit of yours. :D



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#106

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:46 pm

Allowing small children to fast amounts to cruelty and parents can be booked under law and an FIR can be filed against them.

Parents of Jain girl, who died after observing 68 days’ fast, booked

An FIR was lodged on Sunday into the death of 13-year-old Aradhana, who died observing ‘chaturmas’, a traditional Jain fast, for 68 days. The Monda Police Station registered the FIR against her parents Laxmi Chand and Manshi, following a complaint by Balala Hakkula Sangham president Achuta Rao, who Saturday alleged that the parents forced her to undergo the fast to bring the family luck, as her father suffered losses in his jewelry business.

As per reports in the local media, the girl died October 2. The incident has sent shock waves across Hyderabad, with child rights activists demanding an inquiry and action against those responsible for Aradhana – a student of Saint Francis, and resident of Pot Bazaar area in Secunderabad.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... d-3074123/



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#107

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:42 am

Yeah kids shouldn't be allowed to fast. Not on this Moti-us-swalat but 30 days of Ramzan and then there is Ashura day fast or laagan as it's called. Most Muslims ask their 7-8 years olds to start fasting in Ramzan.
ghulam muhammed wrote:Allowing small children to fast amounts to cruelty and parents can be booked under law and an FIR can be filed against them.

Parents of Jain girl, who died after observing 68 days’ fast, booked

An FIR was lodged on Sunday into the death of 13-year-old Aradhana, who died observing ‘chaturmas’, a traditional Jain fast, for 68 days. The Monda Police Station registered the FIR against her parents Laxmi Chand and Manshi, following a complaint by Balala Hakkula Sangham president Achuta Rao, who Saturday alleged that the parents forced her to undergo the fast to bring the family luck, as her father suffered losses in his jewelry business.

As per reports in the local media, the girl died October 2. The incident has sent shock waves across Hyderabad, with child rights activists demanding an inquiry and action against those responsible for Aradhana – a student of Saint Francis, and resident of Pot Bazaar area in Secunderabad.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... d-3074123/



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#108

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:23 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Allowing small children to fast amounts to cruelty and parents can be booked under law and an FIR can be filed against them.

Parents of Jain girl, who died after observing 68 days’ fast, booked

An FIR was lodged on Sunday into the death of 13-year-old Aradhana, who died observing ‘chaturmas’, a traditional Jain fast, for 68 days. The Monda Police Station registered the FIR against her parents Laxmi Chand and Manshi, following a complaint by Balala Hakkula Sangham president Achuta Rao, who Saturday alleged that the parents forced her to undergo the fast to bring the family luck, as her father suffered losses in his jewelry business.

As per reports in the local media, the girl died October 2. The incident has sent shock waves across Hyderabad, with child rights activists demanding an inquiry and action against those responsible for Aradhana – a student of Saint Francis, and resident of Pot Bazaar area in Secunderabad.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... d-3074123/
Those justifying Aradhana’s death should feel the full force of the law

Aradhana Samadariya died of a cardiac arrest brought on by starvation for 68 days. This should have evoked horror and sympathy, but the leaders of the Jain community to which she belonged have expressed very different sentiments. They feel that she died due to her devotion to her religion and have warned that they would brook no interference in the practice of their faith. They may invoke their fundamental right to practise their religion, but equally the child had a fundamental right to life.

Her death should have occasioned some soul-searching among these religious leaders on the absolute need to protect children from such dangerous practices. But instead we see justifications about how she was religious and how she had fasted for 34 days before. Even if she had some misguided notion that fasting is an appropriate way to express her faith, she should have been dissuaded at once. Instead, she appears to have been egged on to undertake a fast in order to propitiate the gods and help her family’s jewellery business, which had incurred losses. Though the family has now been charged with homicide not amounting to murder, child rights activists say the police seem markedly reluctant to act.

The Andhra Pradesh Child Rights Association too has pressed the police to act but not much has moved since the child died. Those justifying the death of the child should also feel the full force of the law for abetting a murder. There can be no tradition which justifies child abuse or indeed homicide. There is a Jain tradition of santhara in which the elderly fast to death. This practice is alarming enough but at least it can be argued that an adult can make a rational and informed choice. But a child can easily be manipulated and coerced as seems to have happened with Aradhana.

The community leaders should not be allowed to hide behind tradition. The National Commission for the Protection of Child Rights should take the lead in bringing these leaders to book. India is a signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Under this, as well as a slew of laws, any act which harms a child is punishable under the law irrespective of whether this constitutes tradition or religious practice. Already, there are children who have talked about emulating Aradhana’s feat. This is a dangerous trend and must be tackled well in time. Aradhana’s death could have been prevented — it was not. But the authorities concerned cannot allow this to happen again.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... LGwDP.html



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#109

Unread post by bohrabhai » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:05 am

20130823_183930.jpg
forget 13 years here we torture our children even less than a year