Are Bohras safe in Pakistan?

[seeker110]

My father saw the destruction of a beautifully run Jamat. We were proud to say we are bohras. We had philanthropists who served the community well. All the elders were respected. Most of my non Bhori friend envied our community for generosity. We were even better than Aghakhani's and very close to the standings of Parsies. Slowly our thinkers and teachers were side lined by Kothar. All Islamic teachings were gutted and Syedna gobbled up our assests. Money comes and goes, but the loss to our relegion cannot be measured. Ill treatment of elders in masjid made it difficult for them to even raise their voice. So what did my father do ,he prayed for the day when things would get back to old system. He died before anything changed , it juust got worse. I started loosing my cool. I also thought that prayers will not produce results until we face the devil head on.

I have had good training in the military for not to back down to my enemy. I also have good security clearance and my thoughts are well known to the agencies. Material and food has not enticed me much. Every penny in my possession is earned with my sweat. I took care of bullies in schools and mohhollah. My mother was proud for her son to become Ghazi. I wondered how easy it was for Hazrat Abbas and Ali Akbar to fight fearlessly against the destroyers of Islam. Imagine the courage it took to run into enemies without having food and water for days. This has made me into the one I am.

If we dont challenge Kothar then we cannot expect any help from the almighty. It is not easy for me to see poor people getting robbed. Those who wish best for the community are silenced. After all what do I owe for all the blessings I have received. I have seen many beautiful lakes forests. I have traveled all over. Stayed in best hotels and enjoyed the company of beautiful people. Worked hard paid off everything at a very young age. Its time I pay back for all the blessings Allah has bestowed to me. Someday, somewhere children will have school clothes, books and tennis shoes. Yateem and bewa will not be robbed. The lesson kothar will learn shall make them think twice. The next person on mimber will be most learned and khair khawa for the masses.

As far as FBI and CIA goes, they might try to recruit me. Same business you see. I am flattered. If you believe prayers will work its fine. Keep doing things that produce results. Allah helps those who help themselves. Live on your knees or dye standing up.

[Aymelek]

Pakistan is no longer safe for Bohras or shias or any other sect, which does not fall in line with the puritan Islam as per the extremist.

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/bomb-s ... 41542.html

[asad]

Off Topic:
One of my colleague is a Pakistani and around 60 years old, He has not visited Pakistan for last 25 years. he says I dont want to ruin the Image i carry inside me of Pakistan with the present day conditions. In my heart i still want to believe everything is OK with Pakistan. Its really hard for us to imagine how Pakistanis face day to day bombing living there and how much it appalls their countrymen outside.

[think]

seeker, seek for changes to bring the community back in the time of your father. no stones have been unturned to tell the kothar to improve their ways but things are worse.

[mnoorani]

Karachi

[mnoorani]

Karachi 2

Firing at the funeral procession.

[mnoorani]

I request the Admin to please put both of the above in the Bomb Blasts thread.
Thanks
Mnoorani

[JC]

Common Sunnis still do not have any grudge against Shias or Bohras ...... but due to more awareness at their side and of more knowledge they have started 'thinking' and may be questioning why shia abuse 3 khalifas and Hz Ayesha - their point is simple - if you disagree and even do not like them, leave them alone, do not talk of them. Are they asking for too much?? And now Extremists are using this plus other things agains shias and trying to create a Sunni state or make shias suffer and live like they live in Saudia. Nobody wants terrorism and bloodshed, we have lived in harmony and we can. Common Sunnis have come forward and we have to give them reasons to argue with their extremists that with shia we can co-exist, as we have, and we can give them that by not accusing or abusing Khalifas and Hz Ayesha and mending some of our ways and practices (which are essentially NOT part of religion) specially bohras have to do a lot to shun umislamic practices. For an ordinary sunni if one tells him or her what do you think of people who do Sajda to Mortal and to graves, are they Muslim, the logical reply would be No, and rightly so .......... so bohras have to think, before they think of living anywhere, are they Muslims first??!! Do they follow the BASICS of Islam?? Are there any practices or teaching whic are 'hurting' other Muslims?? We have to put our house in order first before going out with negotiating terms.

Imagine Borhas cursing and abusing Christ or Pope and living happily in any North American or European country ...!!!! Or Imagine Dai or Mansoos cursing and abusing any Hindu God in India .... this 'friend' Modi will show you your Auwqaat ..!!

[think]

These are the shias and human beings of Karachi where bohri dukan walas live and make money from these people. What are they or the local mulla or Amil doing to help these people.
There are young groups from clifton and defence that are donating blood ,collecting food and clothes and volountering their time and money to help them.
The young bohri's of karachi have been drenched with so much brainwashing from this dictatorial regime that they have forgotten human feelings.
This is the same town where bohri's have made millions of rupees from these people. The sad part ; at the time when they should be helping these people with whatever charity , they are celebrating the Dai's birthday with all the pomp and fervour giving millions to the big mulla. What a shame.
Some one has correctly said; this bohri Dai and his mafia luteras have made zombies of our young bohri generation. nothing but two mithas, two kharas ,big najwas ,ziafats and matam on every occassion whether happy or sad. As one human being to another they have lost their respect and character and so they have lost it all. This is because they loose all respect when they are standing in front of a two timer amil, zadas or Dai and so they do not know human feeling.

[SBM]

Imagine Borhas cursing and abusing Christ or Pope and living happily in any North American or European country ...!!!!

JC Western societies are much more tolerant. In USA they had screened movies against Jesus depicting sex and no reaction while the same movie was banned in many Muslim countries also including India

[JC]

Bro SBM,

I agree Western Countries/Societies are more tolerant as I myself live in Canada. They will tolerate films, research, debate ........ all academics .......... but do you think based on RELIGION if from any Mosque sermons are given AGAINST Christ or say against Pope or any of their Bishops (or against Jews, Hindus or Parsis etc) and 'God's Curse' is send would this be tolerated?? No, they will, and very rightly, say this is grand 'misuse' of freedom given ........ you cannot HURT anyone's feelings, you cannot 'attack' and 'curse' people who are respected by a group (majority) in the name of religion and foment hatred. It is same is allowing someone to physically hurt or stop someone from performing 'religious rituals' as long as they do not bring harm to any individual.

[JC]

And common bohras will PAY for this apathy .......... you just cannot live in isolation and be indifferent to sufferings of masses ........ look what had happened in Africa, say Uganda, blacks saw 'wealthy, happy' bohras and decided to revolt and kick them ............ same is here, PEOPLE are dying, Karachi is bleeding and bohras are celebrating!! OK, you do not want to help, but for God's sake do not add salt to their injuries by this pomp and show, lightinings and dabaass ......... I am not sure when abdes and amtes will wake up??!!

And Manhoos remembered to talk of air hostesses in his LONG baqwas on his old man's birthday and narrated a 'fairy tale' of Ghazva-e-Tabuk' but had no balls to even mention of the sufferings of people in Karachi. Only SELF-PRAISE and thats all.

[mnoorani]

BELOW IS A MESSAGE I RECEIVED FROM A FRIEND ON FB ...OUR MUSLIM BRETHREN ARE IN ACTION WHILE WE CELEBRATE MILAD
Abbas Town Blasts! Time to walk the talk! Donate food, clothes/other materials at Clifton Edhi and Imambargah Yasrab Ph 4 or Askari House phase 5. They will transport them to Abbas town. University students collecting for Abbas Town at Teen Talwar. You can give food, clothes and other materials to Murtuza Hasan Askari on main Khyabane Shamseer (opposite khadda market). Contact# 03332472400. Jafria Disaster Management Cell has arranged shelter and food for the victims, if anyone needs to volunteer or seek advice their no is 0345 2079026 in Incholi. Via Farahnaz Zahidi Moazzam....plz share

[Starwars]

who knows, we could then actually have a future dai with the name of syedna saifuddin odinga odinga arap moi.
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Too good - well said Al Zulfikar - your sartire is uniquely expressed.

[Starwars]

only one person can answer your questions. you know the procedure and drill quite well by now.
send in an arzi into hazrate aaliyah imamiyah qudsaniya burhaniyah, with a copy into hazrate aaliyah imamiyah qudsaniya kaderbhai muffaddaliya as well, accompanied by a sifarish from your jamaat amil and a fakhir najwa.
do not worry yourself with all these petty concerns. bewe mola are there to look after their momeneen farzando. as long as their dua's and benedictions are there, who can harm even one hair of an abde bohra mumeen?? bas maatam karta rehjo, fakher wajebaat rakam ataa karjo ane 2 rakat namaaz padhjo for bewe mola.

Brilliant - so true - jannat ma haat pakarse apna mola - but which one? What a farce this is!

[Starwars]

These are the shias and human beings of Karachi where bohri dukan walas live and make money from these people. What are they or the local mulla or Amil doing to help these people.
There are young groups from clifton and defence that are donating blood ,collecting food and clothes and volountering their time and money to help them.
The young bohri's of karachi have been drenched with so much brainwashing from this dictatorial regime that they have forgotten human feelings.
This is the same town where bohri's have made millions of rupees from these people. The sad part ; at the time when they should be helping these people with whatever charity , they are celebrating the Dai's birthday with all the pomp and fervour giving millions to the big mulla. What a shame.
Some one has correctly said; this bohri Dai and his mafia luteras have made zombies of our young bohri generation. nothing but two mithas, two kharas ,big najwas ,ziafats and matam on every occassion whether happy or sad. As one human being to another they have lost their respect and character and so they have lost it all. This is because they loose all respect when they are standing in front of a two timer amil, zadas or Dai and so they do not know human feeling.

Despite all the hardship the members endure, sad to say, the numbers of fanatics is on the rise - there is no end in sight... boohoo-sob-sob.

[Al Zulfiqar]

ARE BOHRAS SAFE IN PAKISTAN?

some people post questions without thinking. they seem to think that the opinions of the ordinary people on this forum matter when it comes to such weighty issues. that is extremely naive and foolish! it is like some denizens of jhumri talaiya sitting around the tree discussing the fiscal cliff in the USA!

the question whether bohras are safe in pakistan should be asked to mola, and due to his inability to reply due to dementia and alzheimers, it should be asked to kaderbhai mansoos. after all the abdes of pakistan are his responsibility and his duty to nurture (and loot).

who is the leader of the dawoodi abdes? who is praying for them day and night 24/7/365? who takes vajebaat from them? who lectures them, who orchestrates their purjosh maatam? whom do you take raza from before going to the toilet? then ask him whether bohras in pakistan or timbuctoo are safe or not.

[AMAFHH]

Common Sunnis still do not have any grudge against Shias or Bohras ...... but due to more awareness at their side and of more knowledge they have started 'thinking' and may be questioning why shia abuse 3 khalifas and Hz Ayesha - their point is simple - if you disagree and even do not like them, leave them alone, do not talk of them. Are they asking for too much?? And now Extremists are using this plus other things agains shias and trying to create a Sunni state or make shias suffer and live like they live in Saudia. Nobody wants terrorism and bloodshed, we have lived in harmony and we can. Common Sunnis have come forward and we have to give them reasons to argue with their extremists that with shia we can co-exist, as we have, and we can give them that by not accusing or abusing Khalifas and Hz Ayesha and mending some of our ways and practices (which are essentially NOT part of religion) specially bohras have to do a lot to shun umislamic practices. For an ordinary sunni if one tells him or her what do you think of people who do Sajda to Mortal and to graves, are they Muslim, the logical reply would be No, and rightly so .......... so bohras have to think, before they think of living anywhere, are they Muslims first??!! Do they follow the BASICS of Islam?? Are there any practices or teaching whic are 'hurting' other Muslims?? We have to put our house in order first before going out with negotiating terms.

Imagine Borhas cursing and abusing Christ or Pope and living happily in any North American or European country ...!!!! Or Imagine Dai or Mansoos cursing and abusing any Hindu God in India .... this 'friend' Modi will show you your Auwqaat ..!!

yes we should respect each other's religion and beliefs its correct and the main purpose of Islam is to unite but the enemies of Islam i.e U.S.A & ISRAELI do not wont to get the Muslims together mainly in Pakistan and arab countries

[AMAFHH]

BELOW IS A MESSAGE I RECEIVED FROM A FRIEND ON FB ...OUR MUSLIM BRETHREN ARE IN ACTION WHILE WE CELEBRATE MILAD
Abbas Town Blasts! Time to walk the talk! Donate food, clothes/other materials at Clifton Edhi and Imambargah Yasrab Ph 4 or Askari House phase 5. They will transport them to Abbas town. University students collecting for Abbas Town at Teen Talwar. You can give food, clothes and other materials to Murtuza Hasan Askari on main Khyabane Shamseer (opposite khadda market). Contact# 03332472400. Jafria Disaster Management Cell has arranged shelter and food for the victims, if anyone needs to volunteer or seek advice their no is 0345 2079026 in Incholi. Via Farahnaz Zahidi Moazzam....plz share

the Aamil must have told the people not to donate for the bomb blast victims ,he must have said this directly or indirectly because the kothar wants this , in India also the kothar only support those where they can get publicity they will never go for the basic of Islam as india also there were many bomb blast cases but in neither case they have supported the bomb blast victims
this community will face a very very bad time in the future

[mnoorani]

Brother AMAFHH IS 100 % correct.
I really would appreciate if a Pakistani forum member can tell us about the situation in Pakistan right now. I pray that our bohra brethren learn something and face the reality that Kothar isnt going to do anything. This is the second time in less than a year. Have the Pakistani Abdes realised that the mansoos left them in a lurch to enjoy himself amongst the millionaire clean shaven sheikhs of Sri Lanka. DO they know that The Mansoos was feasting on food fit for royalty when bombs ripped through thier neighbourhood. Have they realised that the whole kothar is nothing but a money making istitution,set up solely for the benefit of the Dai and his children ?
What is disturbing is that there was no voice of compassion or help from the Dawat towards these mumins who are suffering day in and day out.

[lawyer]

with the current attitude of bohras towards ISLAM and MUSLIMs bohars are not safe in any part of the world......

I know how my grandpa use to love and participate in every muslim functions and helps muslims as well, and today i see most bohra looking muslims with negative attitude which is really saddening.

[bohraji]

with the current attitude of bohras towards ISLAM and MUSLIMs bohars are not safe in any part of the world......

I know how my grandpa use to love and participate in every muslim functions and helps muslims as well, and today i see most bohra looking muslims with negative attitude which is really saddening.

Salaam Alaikum,
Bohras then were a different breed.
They were looked upon by everyone and mingled into the society. people of other communities would often come to the bohra elders for advice.I have been told that even in the courts of law, a testimony by a bohra would carry much weight. Although the bohras kept towards themselves. It did not stop them from being courteous towards others and always remained honest in all business dealings. They would mingle well with other non bohra nmuslims as well as hindus enough to attend marriages and funerals of others and even light up their houses during diwali.
A bohra could be relied upon whenever help was needed. This proved very well during times of famine .As bohras being non agricultural would not be diversely effected. It was common for bohras to attend shia itna asheri majlises and take part im Milad un Nabi celebrations with the Sunni Muslims. Bohras would often be invited by the pesh imams to participate in such feasts and quite often the bohras would donate for such causes . Unfortunately all is lost now. Bohras are no longer compassionate and cannot question their leaders, Whereas in earlier times the Amil would dare not go against the wishes of the Jamaat bearers.
Everybody was accountable and with jamaat positions came great responsibilities. At times of crisis help was offered and the wealthy few took care of employment and also the upkeep of widows.
Baraat was unthinkable and force was never used. My late father and uncles would often talk of such situations. Unfortunately I have no such incidences regarding our community to tell my children about.

[think]

To days bohras are insensitive to the pains of others. The feeling of helping others is no longer there.The reason for this is that the bohras are not allowed to do any charitable work on their own. If you ask the amil of your town that you would like to donate some money to another organization say for example "edhi" the response will be a big NO. The amil will ask you to give the money to him and then he will give it .
what ever charity any bohri wants to do outside the community is a big NO NO.
"rakam hamne arz karee do, jamaat ma rakam api do. The common mumin gives it to the Amil thinking he has done good. Least does he suspect that inside this white garb is hidden greed and avarice. There is no humanity.

[ghulam muhammed]

There are reports of 6 bohras being killed in a bomb blast in Karachi today, it includes a girl child also. Can anyone from Karachi confirm the same ?

[think]

bohri girl dead . The jamaat is least concerned. There are young bohri girls in places like chakiwara who earn their living by selling themselves but the jamaat is busy in morela morela. As I said humanity for bohris is kicked out the door by this regime.

[wise_guy]

@JC - The present violence in Pakistan is not due to any laanat. It's the total failure of law and order in Pakistan which has led to increased anti shia violence... In India, everything is fine and there is no shia-sunni rift.. Your reasoning is totally absurd.... Pakistan is a failed state.. nobody is safe in Pakistan... last year if I remember, americans were also killed.. did they say laanat or something... Don't put the blame on laanat unnecessary.

Common Sunnis still do not have any grudge against Shias or Bohras ...... but due to more awareness at their side and of more knowledge they have started 'thinking' and may be questioning why shia abuse 3 khalifas and Hz Ayesha - their point is simple - if you disagree and even do not like them, leave them alone, do not talk of them. Are they asking for too much?? And now Extremists are using this plus other things agains shias and trying to create a Sunni state or make shias suffer and live like they live in Saudia. Nobody wants terrorism and bloodshed, we have lived in harmony and we can. Common Sunnis have come forward and we have to give them reasons to argue with their extremists that with shia we can co-exist, as we have, and we can give them that by not accusing or abusing Khalifas and Hz Ayesha and mending some of our ways and practices (which are essentially NOT part of religion) specially bohras have to do a lot to shun umislamic practices. For an ordinary sunni if one tells him or her what do you think of people who do Sajda to Mortal and to graves, are they Muslim, the logical reply would be No, and rightly so .......... so bohras have to think, before they think of living anywhere, are they Muslims first??!! Do they follow the BASICS of Islam?? Are there any practices or teaching whic are 'hurting' other Muslims?? We have to put our house in order first before going out with negotiating terms.

Imagine Borhas cursing and abusing Christ or Pope and living happily in any North American or European country ...!!!! Or Imagine Dai or Mansoos cursing and abusing any Hindu God in India .... this 'friend' Modi will show you your Auwqaat ..!!

[Bohra spring]

@JC - The present violence in Pakistan is not due to any laanat. It's the total failure of law and order in Pakistan which has led to increased anti shia violence... In India, everything is fine and there is no shia-sunni rift.. Your reasoning is totally absurd.... Pakistan is a failed state.. nobody is safe in Pakistan... last year if I remember, americans were also killed.. did they say laanat or something... Don't put the blame on laanat unnecessary.

WG...there is no silver bullet to solve the problem...but the animosity between Shia's and Sunni is one of that has grown out of control....it is an issue right across the Middle East, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, etc. WG do you live in Pakistan, are you affected by the violence ? What is your suggestion to stop the attacks ?

Yes Pakistan is a failed state so both Sunni and Shia are affected...but you are missing the concept that Shia need to take stept to reduce the risk of attacks and one way is expand the sympathy from moderate Sunni ( who by the way the Military and Law enforcement are Sunni Muslims) so Shia can be protected and their rights protected . One way for winning hearts and minds is to get rid of major issues that divide us from Sunni. In India did you not have the same issue in Gujarat when Hindu Police had difficulty breaking up Hiindu mobs to protect Muslims. Consider this case Non Muslim attacks a Muslim, Muslim comes for revenge , a Muslim police has to shoot or teargas ...would it be easy to teargas a Muslim crowd over non Muslim crowd ...and then when you do so ..read the Quran what does it say if you have to choose a beliver over a non-believer...who gets the benefit of doubt. Same case Shia by their practise are considered non Muslims by Salafi extremist ( whether this is right or wrong is immaterial) ...would a Sunni or Salafi try to protect a fellow Sunni/Salafi or Shia who is so different from a Sunni....common sense.

Sunni have minor issues about Shia loving Alhlul Bayt, or we praying differently, I will be very suprised that an extremist salafi would kill a Shia because he does not like Shia not folding hands during prayers...but they have very serious issue when we insult their revered leaders or imply they are not proper Muslims.

Would we Shia not be concerned if Sunni or any other sect abused our Ahlul Bayt. Once we are tolerated by the moderate Muslims, if there was an attack you will slowly see Sunni leaders realising this is attacks are an overreaction, unprovoked abuse and oppression which is against Islam.

Common sense and survival tactics say if you are a minority, out numbred or out gunned you find ways of not getting killed. What is disturbing that many Abdes and Shias are so inflixible in their rituals and are unable to find society benefit, which are really important which are not, which in its term is an extereme form of conservative position.

[ghulam muhammed]

The war ‘within’
—Shabnam Baloch

With the hijacking of US planes and attacking the World Trade Centre on September 11, 2001, the message of Islam as a religion of peace was also being hijacked by those hijackers

It is so much easier to blame others for our problems than to accept responsibility ourselves. What others are doing now or they did in the past (colonialism) should not account for the quality of life for Muslims today. What accounts is so much anger that is always diverted against the external enemies and leaves no room to analyse the internal causes of our social, economical, political, moral and intellectual decline today.

Our determination to decline modernity and a will to embrace values of Stone Age with the sheer assumption that this is the only way to eternal salvation is so overwhelming that we are in the state of total refusal to see how the rest of the civilised world has been developed with adopting the principles of modernity and innovation. We are continuously on the path of decline while the rest of world is climbing up fast on the ladder of prosperity, economic, social, political, technological and intellectual development. The vicious circle of self-imposed isolation, self pity and
exile has poisoned our mindset to see the rest of world with the sentiments of enmity and disapproval. We have our own justifications for holding such thoughts about world; after all, we have been oppressed for centuries.

Our enmity with western, un-Islamic world has many explanations. We see west as a ‘threat to Islam’ but we do not have much to say about Muslims killing Muslims today. The war ‘within’ is leading to a genocide of other Muslim sects; killing people who are innocent, peaceful and are not a potential threat to the integrity of a nation or a so-called ‘Muslim brotherhood’.

If all of this is termed as ‘jihad’, a ‘holy war’, who is this war declared against? Is this holy war directed against poverty, social injustice, corruption, illiteracy, violation of human rights and all other social and moral evils? The answer is sadly no. Than who is the target of this holy war. Is it only the innocent people who are being killed as a result of this self-imposed sacred battle, people who are armless and peaceful? Ironically, the answer this time is yes.

By doing all this, what message are we posting to the rest of the world? There is a huge discrepancy when we claim Islam is a religion of peace, and contrary to that we are engaged to gain that peace through proclaiming a war. With the hijacking of US planes and attacking the World Trade Centre on September 11, 2001, the message of Islam as a religion of peace was also being hijacked by those hijackers. The resulting war is against civilisation, it is against human rights and a constant threat to humanity, no matter whatever name is given to that war.

It is true that the condition of world today clearly requires a jihad, a holy war, but that should be directed to eradicate social and moral evils. That should be directed to restore peace of the world and a fight against hunger, HIV-AIDS and extreme poverty. Islam has clearly asserted that the super degree of jihad is to fight with your own self, the evil inside you.

The notion to fight ‘the evil inside’ is a clear way to restore our dignity and peaceful profile in world. Greater levels of tolerance and respect to others are the only ways to regain that reputation. ‘You shall have your religion and I shall have mine’ should be the way of life.

Time has come to think and reflect upon the message we are giving to world. It is time to reconstruct our message and re-direct this holy war against social and moral evils within first and then to rest of the world. Taking pride in a glorious past is good thing but denial of today’s realities and unclear path to future will lead nowhere. Extremism in any form has no vision, and has no clear path and destination. It merely has darkness; darkness of the age of Abu Jehal. The way to come out of this vicious circle is to disregard the clash of civilisations and embrace the global
civilisation of human dignity and human brotherhood.

It is never too late to rethink and re-adopt the genuine path to salvation.

The writer is the Provincial Manager at the Strengthening Participatory Organisation (SPO), Sindh and can be reached at shabnambalouch@yahoo.com*

[ghulam muhammed]

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS has continuously blessed the mumineen of Karachi with his Makhsus Nazarat. Aqa Maula TUS, with his infinite karam, has bestowed raza mubarak to exhibit Al Ma'raz al Burhani in Karachi

15th Rabiul Awwal, 1434

Location: Karachi, Pakistan

[img]http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9296 ... 766car.jpg[/img]

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[Bohra spring]

This should be part of how low they can go ! Shocking display of arrogance ....cannot find words to describe the disgust...at least the politicians in India use locally made cars when going to parliament .