Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:10 pm

The Dawoodi Bohra Community was an off-shoot of Ismailism whose doctrines are based on basic principles of Islam. It was further strengthened by sacrifices of various Fatemi Imams and Dais of noble credentials. So the ship of Dawat has survived so far through its though years of Tsunami.
But now since last more than a centaury the community is suffering organized loot, because it has come in the absolute control of swindlers operating in dazzling white garb of religion.
Fatemi Imams were from progeny of the members of house of the holy Prophet (pbuh) [Ahle-bayt] whereas Dais were from common masses and also some converts Rajput. Dais in Imams times and under Imams were pious, honest and men of character. But Imams knew that they are so precisely because they had not tasted power and lived in luxury. Therefore 18th Fatemi Imam, Mustansir Billah instructed his Dai, Ahmed bin Mohammad Nishapuri to compile the qualifications necessary for a fit Dai on elaborate lines and it should serve as a guide to the people in selecting a right Dai. He listed total 94 qualities with a warning that "If a Dai doesn't possess the above mentioned qualities in reality and is called Dai, then he is a Dai in name only without any meaning. It is useless to hope for any spiritual benefits from such a Dai. The assumption of the name of Dai, for such a Dai is a sin and it is a sort of burden over him. It is to be understood that a name does not benefit. There must also be quality and action combined with it; otherwise the name of Dai is simply to deceive and rob the followers of their money and to live in luxury at the expense of others."
Look at just one quality, randomly picked up by me out of 94 qualities which are must for a rightful Dai.
It states that:- A Dai should be humble; he should not be proud over his believers. God says, "It is the next world where we shall allow those who do not want highness upon the earth and do not spread disorder. The next world is for those who fear God."(XX-12). Imam Jafer-us-Sadiq says, "Do not be oppressive to learned men so that your false actions may not take away your good right. A Dai must follow the example of the prophets in having mercy and kindness upon the followers though they show disobedient, commit sins, and trouble him. "If God would have arrested the people by their deeds there would not have remained any living creature upon the surface of earth." (XIV-14).

Now let us evaluate our last two Dais, Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb for their policies and practices in light of above mentioned qualification point by point.
1. A Dai should be humble,
2. A Dai should not be proud over his believers,
3. A Dai who do not want highness upon the earth:-
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Due to absolute and unquestioned power, arrogance and high-handedness have become main features of Dai's family and administration; ever since Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb has acquired community's wealth and properties and started living like a monarch in luxurious places. The Dai and/or his family in his name compel the believers (Mumineen/Muminat) to treat Dai as Lord and Master (Aqa Maula) and the believers as Dai's slaves (Abde-Syedna). The believers have no liberty to participate in decision-making in community matters and not even in their personal matters. The Dai's administration in his name arbitrarily decide who should be Dawoodi Bohra and who should not be; who should be allowed in Masjids, Mazars, graveyards, family and community functions and who should not be. What the believers should wear, with whom they should keep relations, what they should eat, what they should read, which business to do, whom to serve, whom to vote in elections. The believers as slaves have no right to do charity, establish charitable, educational, social and financial institutes with the permission (Raza) of the Dai and without dedicating that institute in Dai's name. In other words there is no democratic functioning in the Dawoodi Bohra Community but there is visible dictatorship; all in the name of Islam and Ismailism.
4. A Dai does not spread disorder:- The hatred spread by the last two Dawoodi Bohra Dais in the name of oath of allegiance (Misaq) has resulted into clashes and violent attacks creating disorder and law and order situations and prolonged court cases. Cursing (Lanat) episode and wide scale disorder by Syedna Burhanuddin in Bombay is on official record.
5. A Dai does not be oppressive to learned men:- Violent and murderous attacked on learned teachers of Jameya Saifia and several cowardly attacks on a prominent scholar of Islam, Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer stage-managed by Syedna Burhanuddin are enough to make him a Dai only for name-sack.
6. A Dai must follow the example of the prophets in having mercy and kindness upon the followers though they show disobedient, commit sins, and trouble him:-
As for this qualification both Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and his son Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb are absolute failure. All through out their lives they have demonstrated zero tolerance. They both most ruthlessly curbed even slight disobedience. In February 2000 Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer boarded Alliance Airlines flight from Bhopal. He was returning to Bombay after addressing a Police Workshop. Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb also boarded the same flight from Indore. Dai forgot that "A Dai must follow the example of the prophets in having mercy and kindness upon the followers though they show disobedient, commit sins, and trouble him" and considered Dr. Asghar Ali his enemy so the Dai could not tolerate his travelling with him.
It is already made clear that "It is useless to hope for any spiritual benefits from such a Dai. The assumption of the name of Dai, for such a Dai is a sin and it is a sort of burden over him. It is to be understood that a name does not benefit. There must also be quality and action combined with it; otherwise the name of Dai is simply to deceive and rob the followers of their money and to live in luxury at the expense of others." Therefore please do not expect that our religious establishment would change on its own some day.
We know exactly what's happening in our community. In private we do criticise this system constantly, but when it comes to oppose or show our resentment we all start saving our skins and allow the system to rot more and more.
Our so-called religious and spiritual leaders are deep rooted in corruption fooling people, bribing shady government officials, greedy politicians, dishonest builders, land sharks, illegal documents manipulators. Our unqualified religious heads are destroying this fine community from within. They are not just robbing us, they are destroying our institutions, subverting Shariah laws, vandalising our heritage and history, and trying to build an amoral edifice of crime and corruption unprecedented in the community's history. It's a scary scenario. The ship of Dawat-e-Hadiya is sinking. No one but only on board passengers can save this sinking-Ship.
The problem is: By birth we have been caught in the hands of shrewdest pyrites. We need extraordinary courage, a firm commitment with total disregard for religious sentiments for these rouges. It is a "SOS" save our ship call.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#2

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:32 pm

very well written insafbhai. may god bless you!

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#3

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:47 pm

Insaf Saheb,
It was a great post and it saddens me, what has become of "our" community or what's left of it.. I'm not a pessimist, but my intuition has lead me to believe, this ship has already sank.. And even if we manage to salvage the remanding wreck and a few survivors, both of us know, it will never be the same.. The only way I can see a end to this, is civil unrest across India, war in the continent of Africa and strict laws by the western countries..

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#4

Unread post by Fateh » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:14 am

Too good to read a very true justification regarding the good & the bad.Yes you correctly said ,even know everything about unislamic practice going on in our community we can not do anything.This helpnesness burns my heart every time.

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#5

Unread post by zinger » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:25 am

Mr. Insaf,

I must say that was very well-written and you have indeed raised very valid and pertinent points.

i have just one question and one question only.

This question BTW, is directed only towards Dawoodi Bohras, my brothers in faith, both reformist and orthrodox. People who do not ascribe to our faith and the principles of our faith, please refrain from answering.
Just to give an example, people will reply that the Quran Shareef will have all the answers. I say to these people, please do not bother replying, i, for one, am not looking for your opinions, atleast not right now.

Mr. Insaf, my question to you is...

Given that all you say is true and we ask our current Dai, our and my Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS) and his Mansoos Syedi Muffadal Saab to step down and abdicate the Dai-ship as they are not fit to lead us. Who, in your opinion then, should lead us?
Do you propose a new Dai? Or do you propose that we function as a democracy with a governing body? Or do you propose that we all just do what we feel is best?


Mr. Insaf, i would be highly obliged if you would respond to my post. i am sure a lot of us from the orthrodox community are eagerly awaiting your answers.

Please be mindful, i am not trying to trap you. i respect all you have achieved. i know that there is no easy answer for this, but since you propose that our current Dai is not fit to lead us, i merely wish to put this up for debate what should the next step be.

Thank you.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1282
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#6

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:54 am

Hypothetically who amongst 1 million Bohras would be the most competent to be the New 53rd Diai....and fit the qualites mentioned?
How would the selection process be redone ?

Or is it better that sometimes it is better to let the ship to sink condemn it to scrap and rescue the passengers on a new ship !

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#7

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:04 pm

zinger,

you requested me via pm to express my opinion too on your question. i would rather have left it to bhai insaf or to committed reformists like humsafar to answer you, as they are better qualified than me.

but let me attempt to answer you to the best of my ability. no reformist advocates replacing the dai with another candidate of their choosing, or forcing him to abdicate. the demands of the reformists are clearly spelt out as a sticky at the top of the forum page, http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/54/97/Th ... l_article/, which you can read at leisure.

since the dai and the belief in an imam in seclusion who is supposed to direct the actions of the dai who acts as his proxy, are central to the faith of all dawoodi bohras, the reformists do not challenge this position, nor has it ever been their issue of contention. the reformists have also never made any issue on the nass of any dai about which conspiracy theories abound. the reformist’s demands are not about contesting bohra religion or spiritual beliefs, they are more in the realm of secular and worldly matters, where the dai is not supposed to interfere, but has increasingly been doing so since the last 2 dai’s. all that the reformists want is accountability from the dai’s office for funds collected from the community, independence of jamaats, non-interference in secular and personal matters by misusing the dreaded tool of raza and baraat and ending the distortion which has been deliberately fostered and encouraged by the dai’s office in elevating his role beyond which is clearly prescribed in our scriptures. up until the 51st dai, none of the above draconian laws were ever practised or implemented. the last 2 dai’s have gone about systematically tightening their grip on the community whilst simultaneously strengthening their powers and depriving the simple and faithful followers of ‘real’ knowledge, cunningly feeding them a steady diet of false miracles of the dai and promoting him and his family to the exclusion of all the great figures of islam who have been relegated to the sidelines, deserving only of passing mention. they have succeeded in converting a great community of loving, well-educated, disciplined, pious and warmly hospitable people into a maniacal cult centred only around the persona of the dai.

the real dilemma now arises; what does the thinking segment of the community and the reformists do? the last 2 dai’s and their family have entrenched themselves so strongly and cemented their false ideology so cleverly in the minds of their followers, that to expect them to change at the behest and protests of a few seems well-nigh impossible. their attitude is – we have the majority, the money and the power – go fly a kite. do we overthrow them? do we foist our own rival candidate into the dai’s office? do we force him to abdicate? since the reformists wish to remain dawoodi bohras as is their right, all they can do is hope to create a silent revolution in the community, create an increasingly vocal segment of bohras who remain as jamaat fee-paying members but get bold enough to form groups and challenge the tyrannical authority of the dai by confronting his trained and paid representatives called ‘amils’ who rule every jamaat with an iron fist. refuse to toe his every diktat, refuse to be submissive and pay as little as possible, show spine and independence, ask uncomfortable questions and if required take legal action where possible. esp. in the west.

zinger, your question is valid but besides the point. non-belief in a dai or contesting his nass, questioning the concept of a hidden imam are not up for debate. the alternatives, which many have sought and found, is to join the reformists in increasing numbers, leave the bohra fold altogether and become an ithna-asheri or sunni, give up on religion, become an atheist or a free thinker. all the choices are tough, there are no easy solutions. the clergy knows this and they know they have the community by their balls, in a complete bind.

to each his own. many of us, like myself, continue here in the faint hope that one day the community will rise and rebel en masse’. often times the task seems hopeless, why are we wasting our valuable time here? but pleasant surprises keep cropping up, giving us hope and invigorating our spirits and we find new courage and enthusiasm to carry on. i have personally met or got in touch with atleast 2 dozen members of this forum who have been influenced enough to either stop attending or paying the jamaat and meeting other like-minded bohras and derive succour from each other. i do believe that this forum, inspite of its limited reach among bohras, is definitely having a positive snow-ball effect. everything takes time and bringing a change of heart among the clergy too will happen.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#8

Unread post by think » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:53 pm

Mr; zulfiqar,tahnk you for your pessimism. i too live in hope that one day, that one day eyes will open.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#9

Unread post by think » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:55 pm

sorry i ment "optimism". you see how this kothar has brainwashed me with matam and crying all the time that I am always bowing down . using scary words like pessimistic instead of optimestic.

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#10

Unread post by zinger » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:02 am

Mr. Zulfiquar, the only reason that i had requested you to contribute as well is because you have an opinion that, is sometimes, valid and pertinent.

Thank you

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#11

Unread post by zinger » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:07 am

Mr. Insaf, i await your reply please.

Yes, my question posed was wrong, as Mr. Zulfiquar has pointed out.

Let me rephrase.

You say that our durrent Dai and his Mansoos are morally ineligible to be Dai. What do you propose?

Do you think that a revolution, even on a mass scale, even amongst the orthrodox Bohras is going to bring about a change?

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#12

Unread post by KM1 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:36 am

Mr Insaaf I think you need to do some more research and get your facts right and if you feel the leader is not proper then why are you following him and worried about him and is people. I would request you to look around and see whats the situation in other Muslim Sectors where they dont have a leader. Todays world everywhere people look at Dawoodi Bohra with respect and integrity is just because of our leader and is guidelines.

Yes certain things are not going right in our community but still that does not give anyone right to speak against our Aqa Moula (TUS) or His Mansoos Syedi Mufaddal Mola (TUS).

I also agree with Zinger and please reply to him because we all our eagerly waiting for your reply and I would also request others to reply who agrees with Mr Insaaf.

I am million times sure you will not be able to match someone else even 50% of our Dai is caliber, knowledge and the way of is functioning and leading the community

Bohra spring
Posts: 1282
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#13

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:31 am

Az Bhai can you please clarify your comments around Nass and necessity of a dia as currently defined

If the last 2 dial are at fault, do you suggest we retain the current and hope he will change for the good, this is very unlikely

If not we can not let them continue so how and who will replace the diai ? Not answering this fundamental issue will not make the problem go away on its own

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#14

Unread post by Fateh » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:54 am

KM1 wrote:Mr Insaaf I think you need to do some more research and get your facts right and if you feel the leader is not proper then why are you following him and worried about him and is people. I would request you to look around and see whats the situation in other Muslim Sectors where they dont have a leader. Todays world everywhere people look at Dawoodi Bohra with respect and integrity is just because of our leader and is guidelines.

Yes certain things are not going right in our community but still that does not give anyone right to speak against our Aqa Moula (TUS) or His Mansoos Syedi Mufaddal Mola (TUS).

I also agree with Zinger and please reply to him because we all our eagerly waiting for your reply and I would also request others to reply who agrees with Mr Insaaf.

I am million times sure you will not be able to match someone else even 50% of our Dai is caliber, knowledge and the way of is functioning and leading the community
Dear friend Asharam bapu is also a leader for a community of hindus & also some people look at asharams followers with respects & integrity .This parameter is also applied for many other leader s like pandurang shatri-swadhya parivar.Yes pheron also was a leader of a community so what followers should have to follow any leader blindly?Other people respects is due to their ignorance about the actual facts or reality.what is the caliber of muffaddal maula ?Only he is son of present dai nothing else.

SBM
Posts: 6238
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#15

Unread post by SBM » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:13 am

KM1
I am million times sure you will not be able to match someone else even 50% of our Dai is caliber, knowledge and the way of is functioning and leading the community
Then why you say Lanaat on the first 3 Khalifas, they had more people following them then the number of DB around world, If they are guilty of usurping then how do you justify the current Mazoon's right. If Imam Ali's was the true successor then how come same criteria is not applied to the succession of current Dai.
Kothar is always quoting that 1st Khilafa was nominated in privacy without Imam Ali's presence then how do yo justify the Nass on Mansoos without the presence of Mazoon and Mukasir. At least in the case of 1st Khalifa there were other commoners present even though the whole process is suspect so is the case in current Nass.Kothari Goons always talk about Nepotism during Hazarat Usman's time but what is going on during their own RAAJ, Just like Hazarat Usman appointed his cronies to plump governor's position, same is done by 51 and 52 Dai appointing their cronies to plump positions of Aamils
CONCLUSION; IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT EVEN THOUGH KOTHARI GOONS SINCE THE 51st DAI BEAT THEIR CHEST AND SAY THEY ARE THE FOLLOWERS OF AHL-E-BAYT BUT IN REALITY THEY FOLLOW THE ETHICS OF KHALIFS ON WHOM THEY SEND LAANATS . THEY LIVE THE LIFE STYLE OF YAZID AND PHIROON AND NOT THE LIFE OF IMAM ALI AND HUSSAIN

shapur
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:35 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#16

Unread post by shapur » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:26 am

Its Jumma to Jumma exactly 8 days since KM1 has made an entry into the forum. He entered with a bang and like ACP Pradhyuman flashed an outrageous breaking news about Kothar which was in rather bad taste and was rightly taken off by the admin. Then after a few more brief appearances in between, he comes back a week later to speak from an entirely different plane and platform and this bipolar image is hard to digest leaving one to wonder as to which ship he is actually on or is he one of those proverbial rats who are the first to leave a sinking ship !!.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#17

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:37 am

shapur,

km1 is no one else than incredible/labbayk etc in his many avatars. the guy is sick and suffers from schizophrenia and multiple personality syndrome. he has been banned many times but he keeps coming back with a new identity. just ignore him. he thrives on attention.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:07 pm

Bohra spring wrote:Az Bhai can you please clarify your comments around Nass and necessity of a dia as currently defined

If the last 2 dial are at fault, do you suggest we retain the current and hope he will change for the good, this is very unlikely

If not we can not let them continue so how and who will replace the diai ? Not answering this fundamental issue will not make the problem go away on its own
bhai bohra spring,

i have already stated to the best of my ability what is the official reformist position on nass which is non-controversial and conformist, as well as the necessity of a dai to act as leader and missionary for the community.

if you are trying to gauge my own personal opinions on this, i am afraid, they will have to remain personal as i will not air them publicly on this forum.

it you do not want to let matters continue the way they are presently, then it is upto each individual to decide what recourse they have to address their own personal situation. it is patently clear that one person or a few persons alone cannot and will not be able to do much against a powerful and well-entrenched clergy, but once their numbers start growing then perforce the mafia will be unable to ignore the rebellion any longer. i agree that the enormously wealthy and powerful dai and his establishment will fight tooth and nail and use every dirty trick in its book to defeat any resistance movement, but the most effective way to make them change their ways is drying up their endless supply of money.

stop paying them as per their demands, pay very little, do not attend every majlis or crappy event, attend only occasionally and do not give into their stupid farmans. believe me this behaviour is contagious, you will be surprised how many others will work up the courage and emulate your example. if they bully you, bully them back. they are easily scared by those who talk back and raise their voices.

i know that it is very tempting for some to fantasise about a violent revolution and overthrow of the evil family which occupies saifee mahal, but trust me, that will not be the solution. it will only play into the hands of the thugs and lead to chaos and more repression and tyranny.

Safiuddin
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#19

Unread post by Safiuddin » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:11 am

KM1 wrote:Mr Insaaf I think you need to do some more research and get your facts right and if you feel the leader is not proper then why are you following him and worried about him and is people. I would request you to look around and see whats the situation in other Muslim Sectors where they dont have a leader. Todays world everywhere people look at Dawoodi Bohra with respect and integrity is just because of our leader and is guidelines.

Yes certain things are not going right in our community but still that does not give anyone right to speak against our Aqa Moula (TUS) or His Mansoos Syedi Mufaddal Mola (TUS).

I also agree with Zinger and please reply to him because we all our eagerly waiting for your reply and I would also request others to reply who agrees with Mr Insaaf.

I am million times sure you will not be able to match someone else even 50% of our Dai is caliber, knowledge and the way of is functioning and leading the community
Kaun hain yeh? Welcome, dawoodi bohra servant.
Thank you so much for your informative post. Congratulations! Humne aap ka kalaam ko tasleem kiya.
As you requested, I checked with the rest of Islam, and here I present some of my research findings.
1. You're ABSOLUTELY right. And ABSOLUTELY wrong. It's very different: no shirk there at all. I like that a lot.
I've confirmed that Islam is a monotheistic religion, and bows only to
Allah. Bohot khoob. i understand that last night, while the Please make note of it.
You are are also

2. After having to think only for a fraction of a second, I found someone to match your dai:
You may just remember his name. He was often found wearing torn clothes and eating dry flour,
Now, let me make it perfectly clear so that your double digit IQ, dari wearing,cholesterol ridden
heart will understand:
Anyone can, and anyone will speak and say whatever anyone wants to say -
at any time.
Thank you, but in order to speak, we require neither your permission, nor your acquiescence.

That's all.


Ab aak ja sakte hain.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1282
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#20

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:25 am

Az Bhai thanks but please open up....

I will insist what is the alternative to the diai...anyone knows if in such crisis what can bohras do...we can no longer trust anyone claiming to be imam us zamaan or having contact with him, if imam does not appoint the next leader...what option do we have ?

PBB do not have a a legitimate diai they can follow...is that the reason that abdes do not want o change loyalty...

Is there any historical precedence ?

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#21

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:58 am

The office of the Diai is tainted so is the office of the Imam....These 2 offices cannot protect the respect and credibility of a spiritual establishment under the original Islamic tradition.

There is no logical and fair explanation why the two offices should be saved ...

This does not mean the Abde society will not continue into the future...it will remain a heavily deviated cult ...Kothar will continue to create an identity that is unique to them so they can control who is in and who is out...dts, ridah is part of that agenda

However those Bohras who will seek islamic enlightenment will leave and the leakage will continue. Some of us will seek islamic spirituality from the Muslim ummah elsewhere while social association with Bohra for cultural and family connection reasons

The aim of the resistance should be to restore civility and democracy...this may not succeed but the least we can do is create an environment that is volatile so that oppression from kothar and abdes is met met with force , legal defence and assertiveness. The resistance should be an obstacle to abuse, arrogance and corruption.

Some may assume I am promoting violence ..not really, but i am promoting active defence within the law and legal freedoms. The freedom for individuals to say no, to say enough is enough, create a personal space in an individuals life where a mullah or Amil , should not interfere...if others want to jump off the cliff into slavery so be it but do not drag everyone or those who wish to rethink

We have to be smart and clinical in our mission. Time for talk has now been too long...we need to restore the pride many bohras are smart, intelligent, capable of leadership...the time for monopoly of control must be snatched from the family and relatives of the zadas

There are many who would rather die hungry but with dignity , rather then overfed sheep!

I am so delighted new participants especially from Pakistan and youngsters have joined with energy...we welcome them and support them so they can carry the torch and fire of this movement ...let them come up with ideas we ignored, were afraid to use or could not create ....

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#22

Unread post by KM1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:52 am

Pls stop blaming and comparing with other religion heads and answer

Who shall lead the community and have full ability

By criticizing or blaming the system you are not solving the problem

so please give solution

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#23

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 am

km1,

at this point we do not see a more capable leader for the community than you. you are the only one with the leadership qualities, ilm, wisdom and divine noor in his erudition, as evidenced from your postings on this forum.

you are the solution. you are our only hope and salvation. once we have you installed as the dai, there will be no need to criticise or blame anyone, because the reigns of the daawat will be safe and secure in your hands. we will follow you as the community is habituated to follow the pied piper of hamelin.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#24

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:41 pm

We need to knock of a few icebergs that has caused to ship to sink. I do not think education to mend their way is the only option. Would be cowardly to let them keep the loot. Bigger armies have failed trying to protect a tyrant. These are hustlers not fighters. That is my personnel assessment.

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#25

Unread post by KM1 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:25 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:km1,

at this point we do not see a more capable leader for the community than you. you are the only one with the leadership qualities, ilm, wisdom and divine noor in his erudition, as evidenced from your postings on this forum.

you are the solution. you are our only hope and salvation. once we have you installed as the dai, there will be no need to criticise or blame anyone, because the reigns of the daawat will be safe and secure in your hands. we will follow you as the community is habituated to follow the pied piper of hamelin.
AZ

This is not what i expect a reply from a intelligent and sensible person like you

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#26

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:30 am

KM1 why is not sensible , just because it is from AZ....

Is that not how your diai and Zada operate daily...they wake up and decide Abdes should do this and that? I bet Muffy was given Nass in the same process...

So now you can see how ridiculous the power the diai has accumulated without sound logic or basis !

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#27

Unread post by KM1 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:34 am

PLS dont divert from the main topic

Here we are talking of choosing a new leader not how the leader is functioning so kindly reply on the same.

askz
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:28 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#28

Unread post by askz » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:39 am

KM1 wrote:Mr Insaaf I think you need to do some more research and get your facts right and if you feel the leader is not proper then why are you following him and worried about him and is people. I would request you to look around and see whats the situation in other Muslim Sectors where they dont have a leader. Todays world everywhere people look at Dawoodi Bohra with respect and integrity is just because of our leader and is guidelines.

Yes certain things are not going right in our community but still that does not give anyone right to speak against our Aqa Moula (TUS) or His Mansoos Syedi Mufaddal Mola (TUS).

I also agree with Zinger and please reply to him because we all our eagerly waiting for your reply and I would also request others to reply who agrees with Mr Insaaf.

I am million times sure you will not be able to match someone else even 50% of our Dai is caliber, knowledge and the way of is functioning and leading the community
dear km 1,
why are we and insaf bhai following dawoodi bohra? please tell me is syedna responsible that you me or anybody else was born as a bohra. Has He the right upon us of deciding who will and who remains a dawoodi bohra. my friend if you can just answer to this question within yourself then i think you will get lots of answers. let me tell you it was your destiny which has landed you in the laps of bohra parents. but now it depends upon how you want to live your life. as a slave or as a just and rational thinking human being.
you bohra's are being respected. then why were so many bohras caught for scams and forgeries in karachi recently? where are the pious teachings and bayan's gone.you give millons of cash to killers like Modi then definitely they will respect you.why do Mansoos yet wants his father to live till qayamat? its because he wants to en-cash on him till his last breath. in your last quote you said nobody is capable then the dai. Agreed but does He get the privilege to allow loot his own subjects.? its better not to have a leader then having a leader like this. lastly my logic is simple . if you want to run an organization then you should find ways how to control it. because " jehno raja chor ,aheni praja bikhari"

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#29

Unread post by mnoorani » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:42 am

KM1 wrote:PLS dont divert from the main topic

Here we are talking of choosing a new leader not how the leader is functioning so kindly reply on the same.
We should show the world that we are modern in our approach. Our new leader should be a lady and what better than an airhostess ?

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Only on board Passengers can save this Sinking Ship

#30

Unread post by KM1 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:58 am

Askz
till certain extent I do agree with you that there is lots of corruption and its thumb rule that every community have black sheep's so yes even in us we do have but still we are most respected community and we are still known for our integrity and honesty.

Yes you were born in dawoodi bohra house but still we had a choice to be or not because misaaq is been taken at the age where we understand and also after that we have a choice of leaving the community. But I am dawoodi Bohra because I love my Mola (TUS) and in is preaching.

Regarding keeping someone alive or dead is not in any human being hands its allah wish and only he can decide so please stop this nonsense talk.

Mnoorani
I can understand what type of character you must be
Your thinking caps works only between your two legs and nothing else