Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
as2153
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#91

Unread post by as2153 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:45 pm

Most of the discussion on Qutbi Bohra's appears to be wishful thinking. Its unlikely that a schism of this sort will be happening. I do think that the transition to a 53rd Dai will result in some reform within the community. This is not because of the transition itself but more because of technology. As the practices and history of dawoodi bohras are increasingly exposed on the internet (not just here) but also on sites such as wikipedia that are accessible to all, it becomes increasingly difficult to create or enforce rules or practices that are oppressive or appear to be for the sole purpose of gathering money since these also quickly get exposure aswell. For example, Ive noticed efforts to wipe out wikipedia entries that are quickly reverted by BOTS making suppression of information near impossible.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#92

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:29 pm

Looking at the various efforts being made by Mazun and his family towards social cause is some reason to give the benefit of doubt to Mazun although one cannot be 100% sure of his atttitude once he is elevated to the coveted post as Satta ka Nasha is something which changes a person very soon. As it is the community has a very limited choice so why not to try out someone who is already the second in hierarchy although he has practically no say in dawat matters currently. Probably with the added responsibility he may prove to be a better administrator.



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#93

Unread post by voice » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:54 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote: why not to try out someone who is already the second in hierarchy .
Well this is the point which needs to be highlighted that Mazoon is at present second in hierarchy and the truth is that he and his family are sidelined in planned manner. They are so annoyed because of these that they don`t prefer to mention the name of 53rd in any of there speech or in any dua or on there website.
Probably with the added responsibility he may prove to be a better administrator.
well with our conditional support the chances are more likely.



Bohra spring
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#94

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:19 am

I have still not found any response what has he offered as an alternative approach to leadership.

Just because he is mazoon does not mean he the next best alternative.

He is also quite old, so is he also being used by his sons to protect their inheritance.

If his followers are adding let him show his cards , what is he offering that will take us out of this brain dead state.

Let us not be used by them to push forward their family feud .



seeker110
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#95

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:51 am

If we are choosing between the lesser of two evils, we are still choosing evil. Honest living is not the example set by the parents in Dai's family. Easy living is the cancer ingrained in their genes. Society needs to rid itself from this parasitic family.



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#96

Unread post by voice » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:45 am

Kahawat he, " LOHA HI LOHEY KO KATTA HAI".



juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#97

Unread post by juzerali » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:47 pm

I agree with the theory "why choose one corrupt leader over another". Lets just watch as events unfold with popcorns. No need to participate in the drama.



Rocksolid
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:22 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#98

Unread post by Rocksolid » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:29 pm

voice wrote:Kahawat he, " LOHA HI LOHEY KO KATTA HAI".
none of the two parties are LOHA, both are sher ke bill mein chuhas....



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#99

Unread post by voice » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:19 pm

For all those who are taking the Qutbi Bohra matter lightly, I`ll advise them that please hear today`s relay by Mansoos. The importance he has laid on not to be divided in sects as it has happened in different eras. He mentioned examples of division at the time of Imam Jafar Sadiq and also quoted example of Moulayi Raj etc . The panic in his camp is evident in his speech.

The whole issue of Muharramat is created to divert the attention of public and strategy to win psycological battle. The problem he is facing is vast in magnitude as far as inside Kothar is considered therefore best management tactics are used to gain support from masses.



aflatoon
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#100

Unread post by aflatoon » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:54 am

the latest news on the subject is that both the warring factions had come to terms and negotiated a settlement as per settlement mazoon had resigned from the claim to daiship and saify mahal in favour of muffy in lieu of
rs 4400 crores . can anybody from mumbai confirm the same?



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#101

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:37 pm

aflatoon wrote: rs 4400 crores . can anybody from mumbai confirm the same?
how is it possible to confirm something which is under wraps and between thieves? all one can get is rumours and innuendo.



shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#102

Unread post by shabbir4u » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:49 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
aflatoon wrote: rs 4400 crores . can anybody from mumbai confirm the same?
how is it possible to confirm something which is under wraps and between thieves? all one can get is rumours and innuendo.
And what are you?



seeker110
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#103

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:24 pm

Usually its paid in poison and not money.



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#104

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:51 pm

shabbir4u wrote: And what are you?
definitely not like you, a slave to fraudsters and haramkhors!!



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#105

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:59 pm

aflatoon wrote:as per settlement mazoon had resigned from the claim to daiship and saify mahal in favour of muffy in lieu of rs 4400 crores . can anybody from mumbai confirm the same?
This is highly impossible as Saifee Mahal itself is worth 4000 crores upwards, the Daiship is a multi billion dollar industry hence compensation if any should be in billions and not a paltry thousand crores



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#106

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:03 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:the Daiship is a multi billion dollar industry hence compensation if any should be in billions and not a paltry thousand crores
The Daiship is a multi billion dollar and a unique industry, it does not require any capital, it doesn't pay any sales tax, provident fund, capital gains tax, VAT, central sales tax, gratuity, import duty, customs duty etc etc. No medical allowances are given to employees nor is there any maternity leave for any employee.

It is the only industry wherein people stand in serpentine queues to pay hence there are hardly any defaulters. It doesn't have any collection agents who go door to door for collection as people willingly pay in order to avoid harassment. In any other industry collection is a major problem as "Paisa leta leta joota ghasi jay chhe" but here "Paisa aapta aapta logo na joota ghasay jay che".

It doesn't need to spend on marketing and advertisements as "Brand Burhanuddin" is worth more then all the celebrities from Sharukh Khan to Salman Khan and Brad Pitt to Tom Cruise put together.

Lastly, it is the only industry where the management is not questioned with regard to submission of account books or the multiple perks enjoyed by the team leader and his cohorts. Infact the more the glitter, the more the pomp and show.......... more the Moolah !!!



wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#107

Unread post by wise_guy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:36 am

I have heard that some elements are targeting bohras (their faces are scanned properly by the agents & only the selected ones are targeted) at Raudat Tahera and inviting them over jaman and then they are asked to give allegiance to Mazoon Maula.

Any inside news on this?



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#108

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:55 pm

The apprehensions about a cold war going on between the Mansoos and mazun are quite true as it dates back to the time of the infamous site zahirbatein which was hurriedly blocked by zaadas. The ongoing feud is further established if one goes through the site's article, excerpts of which are as under :-

Several months ago, Taher bhai Qutbuddin stayed over at our place here in Bakersfield, along with his wife. Before he came, the Aamil Saheb here, and many others from Baite Zaini made it very clear that they will not call our home, or have anything to do with us, as long as Taher bhai is at our house.

During Ashara Mubaraka in Nairobi, Shehzada Mufaddal Bhaisaheb called me in the morning one day, and asked me how things were. Then, the following day, he called me again, and told me that "since Taher bhai stayed at your house, he has probably messed up your mind and I want to clean it".

Then, he began to ask me questions like "can a mazoon receive taeed from Imam uzZamaan?" I replied "no". "Then who receives taeed?" I replied: "Aqamola". Then he said: "who will come in your qabr?" I replied: "Aqamola". Then, he began to ask me if I knew what happened with Mazoonsab. I replied that I knew a little bit, but not much. Then he began to tell me things that he said Mazoonsab had done in Africa. He told me to go and ask anyone "right here, any mumin, and they will tell you the story!" I was absolutely shocked! I replied: "I thought Aqamola TUS had said not to talk about this and that Aqamola had given maafi to Mazoonsab?" He said: "yes, but Mazoonsab still did all these things...so what if he had been given maafi, he still did these things, didn't he?!" Then, he went on to tell me what Mazoonsab had done in Udaipur, recently...how he used his hands to give salaami "like Aqamola TUS".

You probably want to shoot me by now, but wallahil azeem, this is what took place in Nairobi with me and Mufaddal Bhaisab. My logic does not allow me to agree with what he says about Mazoonsab. Because according to my logic, and Allah has given me a brain, if Aqamola TUS has kept Mazoonsab a mazoon, and if I try to question anything Mazoonsab does, I am questioning Aqamola. Also, since Aqamola TUS has made Mazoonsab Aqamola's mazoon, Mazoonsab belongs to Aqamola, and I believe he is Aqamola's TUS amaanat, and if I say or do anything against Aqamola's TUS amaanat, I am doing khayaanat. Nobody has told me this...I am deducting this all by myself, with pure and simple logic.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2078&start=30



Nameless
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#109

Unread post by Nameless » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:10 am

GM wrote Then, he began to ask me questions like "can a mazoon receive taeed from Imam uzZamaan?" I replied "no". "Then who receives taeed?" I replied: "Aqamola". Then he said: "who will come in your qabr?" I replied: "Aqamola".
Astaghfirullah.
TUS's mother, wife, sister, daughter, son and probably many of his close relative have passed away in his lifetime. Who came in their qabr? Who came in the qabr of countless mumineen and muminaat who have died to date? Does TUS have the "power" to come in our qabr while he is alive?! :?:



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#110

Unread post by voice » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:37 am

Thanks to brother Ghulam Mohammed for his efforts to provide valuable information and authentic source to make all of us aware of the split between Mazoon saheb and Mansoos.

It will be highly appreciable if he can provide some more knowledge in form of transcripts from the blocked site http://www.zahirbatin.com. As Bohras throughout the world are viewing these hot topic. The rift is so evident that every common Bohra is now knowing that Mazoon saheb is not fairly treated by Mansoos and neither Mansoos is acceptable to Mazoon saheb.

The silence prevailing is like " Toofan ke pehle ki khamoshi".



askz
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:28 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#111

Unread post by askz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:15 pm

to all,
rumors are out in the open. the qutubians are ready to offer rupees 4 lakhs per family to join them and increase their number. well many are playing the wait and watch game.if this amount is possible then a new circle with new laws and regulations shall be seen :)



Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#112

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:18 am

askz wrote:to all,
rumors are out in the open. the qutubians are ready to offer rupees 4 lakhs per family to join them and increase their number. well many are playing the wait and watch game.if this amount is possible then a new circle with new laws and regulations shall be seen :)
If this is true then one can understand what will be the fate of these followers. The foundation will be by bribe. Where this will end!!



asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#113

Unread post by asad » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:26 am

its very unfortunate If its really true that money is being offered to join Mazoon camp. but i highly doubt it as their has alway been a rumor of getting 4 lac in cash if one puts pictures of Jafariya bohra's leader in our shops or houses instead of Syedna's so this offering of money to join is old rumour.

If true this will be the end of any resistance from Mazoon camp.



Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#114

Unread post by Grayson » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:42 am

asad wrote:its very unfortunate If its really true that money is being offered to join Mazoon camp. but i highly doubt it as their has alway been a rumor of getting 4 lac in cash if one puts pictures of Jafariya bohra's leader in our shops or houses instead of Syedna's so this offering of money to join is old rumour.

If true this will be the end of any resistance from Mazoon camp.
Blah! How frustrating. These matters aren't worth dissecting further (in regards to the specificity of the claims) until they're known for a fact. This is no better than gossip. Someone with proper knowledge or source, shed light on these allegations and put doubt to rest.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#115

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:39 pm

I have my own doubts over such claims as mazun is not so stupid as to do something which would give him bad publicity.



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#116

Unread post by voice » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:26 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:I have my own doubts over such claims as mazun is not so stupid as to do something which would give him bad publicity.
I agree to Brother Ghulam Muhammed, I feel that the real issue of "Qutbi Bohra" has lost its seriousness due to lack of patience by the masses. As everybody wants to know the truth and Mazoon saheb`s camp is not so stupid to open there cards at this stage. Result is more of gossips and rumors.

Although for all those who are ready to bear the whole happenings with patience, I sincerely advice them to adopt the same policy of "wait and watch'. Mazoon and Mansoos are two rival camps in kothar, a silent war is on going, both are unacceptable to each other, therefore change is inevitable, in-sha-Allah.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#117

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:45 pm

Some higher ups in badri mahal are of the opinion that the rumours about Mazun forcing the Dai and his family to vacate Saifee Mahal as the property stands on his name and Mazun offering money to bohras for shifting allegiance to his camp are a meticulously planned strategy initiated by the zaadas themselves in order to tarnish Mazun's name and create more hatred in the average bohra's heart against him.



Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#118

Unread post by Grayson » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:31 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:Some higher ups in badri mahal are of the opinion that the rumours about Mazun forcing the Dai and his family to vacate Saifee Mahal as the property stands on his name and Mazun offering money to bohras for shifting allegiance to his camp are a meticulously planned strategy initiated by the zaadas themselves in order to tarnish Mazun's name and create more hatred in the average bohra's heart against him.
I've heard the same in general conversation with people. Most don't seem to care unless Moula makes some sort of proclamation (although there were a few hardliners who "assure" me that Mazun saheb is "gone") . Given his condition, it's more likely Mufaddal bhaisaheb would be the 'Maula' to speak of it if anything (yeah right!).

Although I could picture it being true (both the allegations against Mazun and the allegations against the alligators 8) ) I suggest we take everything with a grain of salt and focus on what we know as these matters may never fully be disclosed. At least not in it's entirety.

What I don't understand is how zaada's and some other bhaisahebs think they're any better when they themselves commit the allegations they use against the hudood.



Bohra spring
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#119

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:42 am

Is there a loyal following within PDB for Qutbi ?

If he were to takeover would there be reconciliation ?



juzer esmail
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#120

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:43 am

Everyone in India knows that Mazun Saheb has won the case and therefore got the occupation of Saifee Mahal...which is the seat of Dawat...Knowledgeable people say that the Dai, Mazun and Mukasir have a ratio of 50/ 30/ 20 percentage respectively, in Dawat property. There are rumours that already people in Hyderabad have started converting to Qutbi...and there's already an office in Dubai.