Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#151

Unread post by voice » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:53 am

some more from HT,

Bohra future • a day ago −
SMB did not explicitly do Nass on Mufadal , and in absence of specific evidence and as per rule the Mazoon is the default Diai should SMB die.

Hence Mufadal can aspire to be the next Diai but cannot assume he will be the rightful dial.

In the case of this dispute either SMB redoes the Nass or allows the doubts to simmer and the community splits after his death.

I am a Bohra so can say what I like.

Murtaza Poonawala me • a day ago −
The whole Nass drama was staged in order to go "one up" on the Mazun. The Dai did not say anything clearly from his own mouth and it was merely done to pacify the doubts in the mind of the Bohra people who are gullible (Promise them heaven, Fill their bellies, Keep threatening them and their family with excommunication, etc.)

Joharr • 14 hours ago −
It is the classic case of shooting the messenger.Instead of any
introspection,Dai's supporters are pouncing on the journalist.The dai's
supporters should realise that they are not living in a dictatorial but
in a democratic country.the other person may have a opinion which may be
in a conflict with yours but you have no right to abuse him. An appeal
to my Bohra Brothers and Sisters please come out of your medieval
mindset and respect other people opinion.Dai's supporters are in a way
mirror image of the sanghis,just curse and abuse if not in agreement.As
for the empty boast that they are peace loving just ask their poor
victims how peaceful they are.

Shabbir Millwala • 19 hours ago −
I am a member of the Bohra Community,our community is all money and no spirituality.We do cult worshiping of the Dai family.I am not at all surprised at the latest turn of events.I hope that the Dai's family get exposed for its money laundering.

Saleh addy • 13 hours ago −
hamari abadi hi kitni ha bhai jo yeh sab kuch karte aur publicly show hota, phir bhi yeh sab buraiya hamaray yahan hai, aur sufaid libaas me to aur numaya hoti hain, food free ka nahi milta, peson me aur wo bhi un healthy! Home.. kuch to dena parega na hame aur hamary zameer ko khareedne k liay... Qadyani to hum se zyada help karte hain....

Saleh Tasneem Mustafa • 13 hours ago −
kaash k itni Mohabbat or Care Allah ki karte, aur us k hukum par chalte, Quran Samajh kar parhte, Aur Zahiri noorani Libaas k bajay batin ko pak karte to kitna acha hota... Dai koi khuda nahi ha Maazallah..hamare hi tarha kay insaan ha aur unhe insaan hi rehno do ben, Allah ka khauf karo, us se barh kar koi nahi ha, Sab ko fana hona ha jab hamare pyare nabi SAW na rahay to baki kisi aur ki kya auqat ha un k samney....Allah ka khauf karo...

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#152

Unread post by voice » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:48 am

New comments from HT,

afty • a day ago −
Kudos to HT for bringing this out. No body else would have had guts to publish this..!!! The fact is that Thousands of crores of rupees (most of it is black...) is at stake, such huge amount would surely have caused this rift. However, i m not very optimistic about so-called qutbi faction. But if it helps community coming out of the chain that we are trapped in, I wish them all the luck in the world. Go Qutbis Go...!!!!!

Mustanzir aliabbas Ujjainwala • a day ago −
Just because religious sentiments of some people are hurt does it means that the truth has to be hidden under the rug.

concerned • 19 hours ago −
Reformists were not thrown out, they were/are ex-communicated. It is illegal and against human rights. There is a case against the Sayedna on ex-communication in the courts. Reformists are fighting for social reforms and against the corruption and greed of the priesthood.

Taher • a day ago −
I am also a Bohra and I would like to congratulate the reporter and the newspaper for showing some spine.

Hasan bhaisahab • 13 hours ago −

Because I am worried about my Akherat and am holding fast to my Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, is why I am worried about who is the right successor of my Maulana.

You people protesting this report remind me of the followers of Abu Bakr, Umr and Usman who agreed wholeheartedly with the Sakeefa where Abu Bakr usurped the rights of Maulana Ali and forced Maulana Ali to stay at home rather than fight so that Islam would live. Think of that situation and instead of being with Abu Bakr, do what is important and be with Maulana Ali.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#153

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:31 am

Has anyone checked whether Qutbudin is questioning whether Muffy is the rightful successor or is he seeking succession for himself.

If he is questioning the succession and not seeking it for himself , he deserves credit for trying to reform the community.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#154

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:47 am

Bohra spring wrote:
Has anyone checked whether Qutbudin is questioning whether Muffy is the rightful successor or is he seeking succession for himself.
that was a very pertinent and sensible question, something we all overlooked. thanks for bringing it up!

we have sent brother grayson to interview mazoonsaab qutbuddin and get the facts straight from his mouth. preliminary reports filtering in from unconfirmed sources seem to indicate that mazoonsaab is in favour of holding elections for the dai and is rumoured to be seriously considering joining the party led by brother bohra spring, who is advocating holding a democratic election to select the best dai.

this would indicate that the mazoon is not in the race, considering his age, ill-health and lack of support. besides this, obviously, the strong challenge mounted by bohra spring as a daiship contender seriously damages any remaining chances that the mazoon may have.

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#155

Unread post by ammar786 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:54 am

shabbir4u wrote:We All Dawoodi bohra ALL over World Love Sydena Moh Burhanuddin sahen and Syedi Mufadal bhai SaHEB Saifuddin. Dont care what people say.


ya thats true bro.. this people are real seek or u can say that they are totally misguided.. lets pray for them that may allah show them the path of jannat

Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#156

Unread post by Rising Star » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:59 am

ammar786 wrote:
shabbir4u wrote:We All Dawoodi bohra ALL over World Love Sydena Moh Burhanuddin sahen and Syedi Mufadal bhai SaHEB Saifuddin. Dont care what people say.


ya thats true bro.. this people are real seek or u can say that they are totally misguided.. lets pray for them that may allah show them the path of jannat
ok what is path to jannah?

cerebrating useless birthdays and killing animals in africa?

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#157

Unread post by ammar786 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:01 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
Bohra spring wrote:
Has anyone checked whether Qutbudin is questioning whether Muffy is the rightful successor or is he seeking succession for himself.
that was a very pertinent and sensible question, something we all overlooked. thanks for bringing it up!

we have sent brother grayson to interview mazoonsaab qutbuddin and get the facts straight from his mouth. preliminary reports filtering in from unconfirmed sources seem to indicate that mazoonsaab is in favour of holding elections for the dai and is rumoured to be seriously considering joining the party led by brother bohra spring, who is advocating holding a democratic election to select the best dai.

this would indicate that the mazoon is not in the race, considering his age, ill-health and lack of support. besides this, obviously, the strong challenge mounted by bohra spring as a daiship contender seriously damages any remaining chances that the mazoon may have.

first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#158

Unread post by ammar786 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:09 am

voice wrote:some more from HT,

Bohra future • a day ago −
SMB did not explicitly do Nass on Mufadal , and in absence of specific evidence and as per rule the Mazoon is the default Diai should SMB die.

Hence Mufadal can aspire to be the next Diai but cannot assume he will be the rightful dial.

In the case of this dispute either SMB redoes the Nass or allows the doubts to simmer and the community splits after his death.

I am a Bohra so can say what I like.

Murtaza Poonawala me • a day ago −
The whole Nass drama was staged in order to go "one up" on the Mazun. The Dai did not say anything clearly from his own mouth and it was merely done to pacify the doubts in the mind of the Bohra people who are gullible (Promise them heaven, Fill their bellies, Keep threatening them and their family with excommunication, etc.)

Joharr • 14 hours ago −
It is the classic case of shooting the messenger.Instead of any
introspection,Dai's supporters are pouncing on the journalist.The dai's
supporters should realise that they are not living in a dictatorial but
in a democratic country.the other person may have a opinion which may be
in a conflict with yours but you have no right to abuse him. An appeal
to my Bohra Brothers and Sisters please come out of your medieval
mindset and respect other people opinion.Dai's supporters are in a way
mirror image of the sanghis,just curse and abuse if not in agreement.As
for the empty boast that they are peace loving just ask their poor
victims how peaceful they are.

Shabbir Millwala • 19 hours ago −
I am a member of the Bohra Community,our community is all money and no spirituality.We do cult worshiping of the Dai family.I am not at all surprised at the latest turn of events.I hope that the Dai's family get exposed for its money laundering.

Saleh addy • 13 hours ago −
hamari abadi hi kitni ha bhai jo yeh sab kuch karte aur publicly show hota, phir bhi yeh sab buraiya hamaray yahan hai, aur sufaid libaas me to aur numaya hoti hain, food free ka nahi milta, peson me aur wo bhi un healthy! Home.. kuch to dena parega na hame aur hamary zameer ko khareedne k liay... Qadyani to hum se zyada help karte hain....

Saleh Tasneem Mustafa • 13 hours ago −
kaash k itni Mohabbat or Care Allah ki karte, aur us k hukum par chalte, Quran Samajh kar parhte, Aur Zahiri noorani Libaas k bajay batin ko pak karte to kitna acha hota... Dai koi khuda nahi ha Maazallah..hamare hi tarha kay insaan ha aur unhe insaan hi rehno do ben, Allah ka khauf karo, us se barh kar koi nahi ha, Sab ko fana hona ha jab hamare pyare nabi SAW na rahay to baki kisi aur ki kya auqat ha un k samney....Allah ka khauf karo...


its all fake, nice trick by writing diffrent names of db you thoght that all will believe you.. hehe ye sab purana ho gaya bhai
sunlo daawat ke dushmano tum suno, aese dai ao rehbar na tum laa sake
aek muddat hue dhundhte-dundhte..

ye hai dawaat ki kashti,
ise tum hila na paoge,
kyoki iska rehbar hai burhanedee,

stop all this rubbish and go for some meaningfull work,
all this things not going to work

abde53
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#159

Unread post by abde53 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:52 am

as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
Br Ammar Bhai Saheb
Quran maa kayi bajo aa lakhaan chey?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#160

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:15 pm

ammar786 wrote:
.. the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
you are right. the people we are talking about have no comparison with us. we are far superior morally and ethically. we do not go around looting people in the name of ali and hussain and with the haraam ni kamai living a life of aiyyashi, staying in palaces, travelling in extreme luxury, making our followers do sajdas to us, murdering wild animals for sport and pleasure, refusing to give accounts of baitul maal, displaying arrogance and calling ourselves as "royals" etc.

it is precisely for this group of people who cheat others in the name of religion and lead them astray, mocking the sacrifice of hussain, that the quran mentions as kuffars destined for hell and punishment in eternal fire. your 'quoting' the quran (which you have not quoted anyways) is like the devil quoting scripture!

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#161

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:07 pm

This 33 guy is out of line ..why are we dragging Alavi issue into this debate. The article should be deleted as it is hateful.

I would caution reformists to be alert for their own safety the abde fanatics may commit violence now that they have got into a rage state.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#162

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:43 pm

ammar786 wrote:as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
Which version of the Quran ? the version given by naatik e quran ?

Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#163

Unread post by Rising Star » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:07 pm

ammar786 wrote:
Al Zulfiqar wrote: that was a very pertinent and sensible question, something we all overlooked. thanks for bringing it up!

we have sent brother grayson to interview mazoonsaab qutbuddin and get the facts straight from his mouth. preliminary reports filtering in from unconfirmed sources seem to indicate that mazoonsaab is in favour of holding elections for the dai and is rumoured to be seriously considering joining the party led by brother bohra spring, who is advocating holding a democratic election to select the best dai.

this would indicate that the mazoon is not in the race, considering his age, ill-health and lack of support. besides this, obviously, the strong challenge mounted by bohra spring as a daiship contender seriously damages any remaining chances that the mazoon may have.

first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
what is path of jhiliat?

worshiping one GOD? or doing sajdaas to humans?

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#164

Unread post by ammar786 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:47 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
ammar786 wrote:as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
Which version of the Quran ? the version given by naatik e quran ?

actually you never understood the true meaning of quran and you will never do because you are the follower that 3 fools (in your language you say it khalifa)
the one who added in azan that praying namaz is better than sleeping ( as salato khairunmenannaum) huhh..

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#165

Unread post by ammar786 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:56 am

you are right. the people we are talking about have no comparison with us. we are far superior morally and ethically.


ohh superior morally and ethically..haha
by saying this things you want be superior, the world knows and even your foolish heads knows who are they, and if you were on the path of sharia as well as quran than you would never do gibat, but as you are on path of zahiliyat, you do it every moment.


anyways may allah show you the right path as shown to some of your people..ameen

ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#166

Unread post by ammar786 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:03 am

abde53 wrote:
as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
Br Ammar Bhai Saheb
Quran maa kayi bajo aa lakhaan chey?

if you would have understood quran than you would never have gone on path of jahanum,
and first of all have look at your disrespectfull language (kay bajo lakhaan che). its the holy kitab of allah not an agreement of your foolish ulma...

Maqbool
Posts: 849
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#167

Unread post by Maqbool » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:27 am

ammar786 wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: Which version of the Quran ? the version given by naatik e quran ?

actually you never understood the true meaning of quran and you will never do because you are the follower that 3 fools (in your language you say it khalifa)
the one who added in azan that praying namaz is better than sleeping ( as salato khairunmenannaum) huhh..
Ammar I think you are not aware of the consequences what happened when Sayedana has proclaimed lanat in public and after that he has to submit unconditional mafinama to muslims. Please restrain about your languages since you are in public.

Also please clarify why you are here with your fictitious identity without your surname?

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#168

Unread post by voice » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:01 am

Regarding the above few posts by various members of this forum, I would request that maintain calm and let`s not get deviated from the topic.
Bohra spring wrote:Has anyone checked whether Qutbudin is questioning whether Muffy is the rightful successor or is he seeking succession for himself.

If he is questioning the succession and not seeking it for himself , he deserves credit for trying to reform the community.
Well, its an important question raised by Bohra spring and to my understanding with all the current happenings it appears that Mazoon saheb is legitimate successor according to his current post and mansoos is not acceptable to Mazoon and his camp. So they have raised question regarding the validity of Nass. They are slowly opening cards so as much the Sayyedna is not in position to speak its easier for them to prove the fabrication of nass done by mansoos camp.

Although the race has gain pace but still a long process till SMB is alive. One thing for sure Mazoon saheb`s camp is successful in getting themselves registered in history as " Qutbi Bohra".

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#169

Unread post by KM1 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:16 am

Bohra spring wrote:Has anyone checked whether Qutbudin is questioning whether Muffy is the rightful successor or is he seeking succession for himself.

If he is questioning the succession and not seeking it for himself , he deserves credit for trying to reform the community.
Its a v good Question
Because till date Mazzon Saheb has never revolted against Syedi Mufaddal Moula (TUS) nor have showen any signs.

When Hatim bhaisaheb expired mazoom saheb in presence of all majlis bowed down took raza and sat below Syedi Mufaddal Moula (TUS) and gave full respect the way he gives to Aqa Moula (TUS)

So many Majlis in raudat tahera and Saifee Mahal in many Ziyafat he sat below Syedi Mufaddal Moula (TUS)

Statement in HT by Abdul Qadeer BS that Mazoom Saheb wished Syedi Mufaddal Moula (TUS)

Yes Mazoom Saheb due to his health reason he has kept absence and all knows he is not keeping well and from last 15 years and has gone through many surgeries in USA and his sons are always present in any of the main events to show that they are united and they are with Syedi Mufaddal Moula (TUS). So where is the question of QUTBI BOHRA S

So where is the doubt and what is the issue just by someone started this rumours of Qutbi Bohra we all are getting carried away and not focusing on main stream issues its time to wake up and understand that internally all are one and blood is always thicker then water they will respect whatever His Holiness will say.

Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#170

Unread post by Rising Star » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:47 am

Ammar u shud know, coming on this site is banned by muffy , so if u are here, u are already doing befarmaani of him.....so are u from our group as well (we befarmaans)? :mrgreen:

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#171

Unread post by Grayson » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:08 pm

A few (exhaustive) clarifications and ponderings on this matter:

1.) While recent practice suggests that the 'rutbah' of Mazoon is designated as the Dai's successor, that's not necessarily true. There have been hudood in the past that haven't ascended to Dai and some that have also been disfavored.

2.) As KM1 mentioned, Mazoon saheb didn't show any hostility to Syedi Mufaddal bhaisaheb during the passing of Hatim bhaisaheb. Their reception to each other was dignified, if not venerated.

3.) Shahzada's of the current Dai (as well as the children of the late Syedi Yusuf Najmuddin) have a considerable monopoly over the hearts of general mumineen when compared to either Mazoon or Mukasir saheb. Their influence is far reached. Due to open animosity of some of the bhaisahebs towards Mazoon, the bias of general mumineen is against him.

4.) Mukasir saheb (Syedi Husain bhaisaheb, brother of both Syedna and Mazoon) has accepted nuss of Syedi Mufaddal bhaisaheb. He was present during the announcement of Raudat Tahera, and personally did talaqqi to Mufaddal bhaisaheb,

5.) The belief that Syedna Taher Saifuddin intended Mazoon saheb to be a future Dai is still rumor and speculation. Unless either camp openly challenges this notion (which may never happen) there's no assertion to this claim. Whether or not it's true.

6.) My take on the Hindustan Times article: it was irresponsible journalism. For a national newspaper to base a story on speculation discredits it's reliability. However, the matters it highlights are relevant to general gossip among Dawoodi Bohras and interested observers. The good point is that it raises the notoriety of this issue to a stage where serious conversation and questioning will further spread. The bad point is it is based on an article of speculative views and laymen testamonials that have no tangible substance.

7.) As of yet, Qutbi Bohras do not exist. Our thoughts on the matter is just that: thoughts. If there are 'cards to be played' we can assume further based on that. But at the moment, everything we say (including the points I ponder in this post) are mere assumption.

8.) Not commenting on a matter (like Kothar and Mazoon saheb's family) doesn't mean the matters true. It's common practice, particularly in the Western world to not comment on press rumors and speculation. Doesn't invalidate the query, but doesn't prove anything either. Internal matters usually stay that way, and as long as all parties compromise, the only points on the issue that are disclosed are the ones allowed to. Only a reliable leak could verify how negotiation is taking place (if any).

9.) People that I've talked to on this matter seem to have one underlying doubt (that I think to be this): due to Syedna's current state, did he actually announce Nuss? Did he say it with his voice? His words? The issue stems from how reliable the people he may have announced (if at all) it to are. It was announced by his children, many who already disfavored Mazoon saheb. It's not the reliability of the Syedna that comes to question so much as it is the reliability of his children who declare it as being the Dai's words. If people were to actually hear it with his voice, doubt would cease, and truth would prevail. That may not be possible anymore.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#172

Unread post by Sceptical » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:17 pm

Hello !

This is my first message. I'm 26 and living in Europe.
I have been carefully reading these forum for months.

I'm particularly confused by this "rumour" about the Qutbi that's why I decided to participate in the debate...

I don't now if HT is right but this can be read on Mazoom's web site :
On 5th night of Rajab [Sunday, 5 June] Mazoon-e-Dawat tus presided over majlis in Ghurrat-ul-Masajid Saifee Masjid, in which the recording of bayan of Shehzada Qaid Joher Bhaisaheb Ezzuddin dm from London was relayed. Shehzada Saheb did zikar of Aqamola tus performing Nass on al-Mawlal Ajal Syedi Aali Qadr Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin tus.
Does it not implicitly mean that mazoom accepted the nuss over Mufaddal bhaisaheb?

PS : sorry for my bad english. :?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#173

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Bro sceptical,

Welcome to the forum.

It is common knowledge that Mazoon has NEVER disputed the nuss factor PUBLICLY and there is no chance of he doing the same in the near future atleast till the 52nd Dai is alive. He is smart enough to understand that if at all he raises this issue now it will harm his future prospects badly as the current lot of abdes are totally hypnotised by the 52nd Dai and Mansoos being his son gets all the public sympathy by default.

Every religion, every state is run by smart psychologists who gauge public perception very well and SYMPATHY is one factor which is easily encashable. Don't forget how Rajiv Gandhi won the elections with a thumping majority although he was a novice in politics. He won due to the mass public sympathy he got due to the assassination of his mother Indira Gandhi who herself was an extremely shrewd politician with mass appeal.

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#174

Unread post by Grayson » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:17 pm

Sceptical,

Great observation. That pretty much stands as the current and only "official statement" from Mazoon saheb's family. Hope you take things with a grain of salt (from each different view) as your name suggests.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#175

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:39 pm

Grayson wrote:
1.) While recent practice suggests that the 'rutbah' of Mazoon is designated as the Dai's successor, that's not necessarily true. There have been hudood in the past that haven't ascended to Dai and some that have also been disfavored.

2.) As KM1 mentioned, Mazoon saheb didn't show any hostility to Syedi Mufaddal bhaisaheb during the passing of Hatim bhaisaheb. Their reception to each other was dignified, if not venerated.

3.) Shahzada's of the current Dai (as well as the children of the late Syedi Yusuf Najmuddin) have a considerable monopoly over the hearts of general mumineen when compared to either Mazoon or Mukasir saheb. Their influence is far reached. Due to open animosity of some of the bhaisahebs towards Mazoon, the bias of general mumineen is against him.

6.) My take on the Hindustan Times article: it was irresponsible journalism. For a national newspaper to base a story on speculation discredits it's reliability. However, the matters it highlights are relevant to general gossip among Dawoodi Bohras and interested observers. The good point is that it raises the notoriety of this issue to a stage where serious conversation and questioning will further spread. The bad point is it is based on an article of speculative views and laymen testamonials that have no tangible substance.
grayson,

it is your principle carved in stone to ask for hardcore proof before you pass any judgements. in view of that, please provide proof for your above statements. thank you!


Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#176

Unread post by Grayson » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:11 pm

Affirmative.

1.) Recent practice refers to the most commonly cited example: STS appointed SMB Mazoon, and declared him as his successor. There have been rivayats in some bayans in which it's said that the Dai of those times have been naaraz or upset with various precedings, and even actions of hudood. My knowledge of it is reflective and I don't recall specific names or have access to any kitaabs saying such but other orthodox who have attended and heard such bayans could attest to it. None of those bayans (heard from aamils, bhaisahebs and syedna himself) condemned the hudood. They were used to illustrate points parallel to the bayan.

2.) This happened and there's photo evidence of both sahebs sitting in majlis during Hatim bhaisaheb's sipara. It's on zeninfosys to which I lack access. There was nothing to suggest veneration or indignity in observation.

3.) This was a pondering and observation of how marginalized the hudood seem compared to Syedna's progeny. The Zahir-Batin details support this notion and a family member personally heard one of YN's sons speak ill of Mazoon.

6.) "My take", and I precede to comment.

It's more supportive information rather than absolute. Social issues aren't like math or science.

It is not my principle to need proof for judgement. I prefer to observe and think about things rather than judge outright. I do need proof for fact though.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#177

Unread post by asad » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:36 am

Just received this as an email, so now Quid Johny has also jumped in to refute and is instigating crowds.

================================================================================================

Per instruction from Shahzada Qaidjoher Bhaisaheb Ezzuddin Saheb do mobilize as many letter writers as possible.
Please send your protests to Mughda.variyar@hindustantimes.com and htmetro@hindustantimes.com
Sending a draft just copy paste . Change name and city country name and send. Or. Add your own comments
To , chief editor HT and all whom it concerns

I.......................... strongly protest against the ill researched article written by Mugdha Variyar on the front page of the Hindustan Times of Mumbai with malicious intent

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 44475.aspx

which is a direct attack on the integrity and solidarity of the Dawoodi Bohra community, its leader Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb TUS and his heir apparent Syedi Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.
I personally witnessed to the Nass proclaimed by Huzurala TUS and strongly disagree with the so-called reformists claims who basically not being Dawoodi Bohra have no moral or spiritual right to comment on the succession.
I strongly and vehemently condemn this article and demand a public apology from
The Hindustan Times and Miss Mughda Variyar.

From
(Your name)

Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#178

Unread post by Rising Star » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:43 am

I will personally write to miss mughda that what ever she has wrote is true and there is no need for any apology, infact muffy and qaid johar shud ask for appology to fool people in the name of religion.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#179

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:25 pm

i agree with rising star. we should all write to mughda more letters in support of her article than the abdes against it.

there is freedom of expression in a democracy. if the kothar is outraged and has proof that HT is a liar and defaming its establishment, let it file a suit against HT. do they have the guts?

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Why is this remour of new Qutbi Bohras sect?

#180

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:37 pm

Since the beginning of Islam, Ismaili sect and Bohra sub-sect numerous spits have taken placed and almost all splits have taken placed on the issue of “Succession”.
The first major division between Sunnis and Shi’ites took placed in Islam on the question of succession to the Holy Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Again Shi’ites got divided in to number of sects like Zaidiyya, Kaisaniyya, Hanafiyya, Imamiyya, Ismaliyya etc and sub-sects like Khojas, Bohras etc. Around year 1090 A.D. the Shia-Ismailiya-Mustaliya-Tayyebiya sub-sect known as “Bohras” came in to existence and again in 1597 A.D. a split took placed among Bohras on the issue of succession thus dividing them in Daudi Bohra and Sulymani Bohras.
But the further divide took placed in 1837 A.D. among Daudi Bohras. This split is important to our topic as this split was due to ambiguity in the declaration of “Nass” as 46th Dai Syedna Badruddin Saheb died at the age of 26 years due to food poisoning, without pronouncing clear and open “Nass- Jali” on his successor. He officiated as Dai only for 4 years. Though most common Bohras accepted 47th Dai Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb as the legitimate successor but among the ulema validity of Nass on him was disputed and they remained firmly opposed the claim of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb. This dispute has not been resolved till today as unambiguous declaration of Nass in favour of successor is religious obligation.
In comparison to 46th Dai Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb, 52nd Dawoodi Bohra Dai has been living a longest life of 102 and he is on seat of Dai for more than 48 years. His father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died at the age of 80 years and he had officiated as Dai for 50 years. Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb was born in 1915 and he declared Mazoon-e-Dawat and successor by Nass-Jali in 1938 when he was 19 year old. Burhanuddin Saheb was Mazoon-e-Dawat till 1965 when his father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died. Though Nass was conferred on him in 1938 till 1965 he was known as “Mazoon-e-Dawat and he was never called as “Mansoos”.
Allah has given longest life span which all 51 Dais before him did not get. Allah gave him more than 48 years of Daiship. But for the reasons best known him he did not declare Nass on any one and kept his followers guessing. Meanwhile the power struggle in Dai’s filthy rich family continued. In order to knock down the chances of Mazoon-e-Dawat, Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin as successor, numbers of conspiracies were plotted by the certain members of Dai’s family against him. First an attempt was made to defame him in the eyes of the community members; story of his romance with film actress Nafisa Ali was floated. Then came a revelation by Taizoon Bhaisaheb (http://www.zahirbatin.com), regarding Zahir Batin controversy. This was a second attempt to confuse Bohra follower to accept or not accept Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin as Mazoon-e-Dawat. One more attempt was made to frighten Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin and his supporters by violently attacking Taizoon Bhaisaheb in Bombay and then Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin in Surat by goons of Burhani Guards. Every time name of Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin came as stage-manager.
In March 2011 there were celebrations all over on Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s 100th birthday. He went London and suffered a stroke was admitted in London hospital. He was unconscious and doctors had lost hope. It was then his 4 sons announced that Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb appointed his second son, Syedi Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin, as his successor and the 53rd Dai al-Mutlaq of the Dawoodi Bohra community. No other member of the community was present then and there. Then Syedna Saheb returned to Bombay and he was brought to Rozatut-Tahera where his words were not audible and his doctor Moiz Bhaisaheb had to interpret what he was trying to say.
Under these circumstances a situation of doubt aroused due to ambiguity in the declaration of “Nass” as it was not pronounced clear and open. He was brought Rozatut-Tahera just for confirmation after declaring “Nass” in private among his sons only.
This why there is roumer that some Bohras are leaning towards Mazoon-e-Dawat Syedi Qutbuddin Saheb.