Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#211

Unread post by ammar786 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:39 am

If it is true then why the Mafinama in first place? Duato has given their life is past history. In presence the dai proclaim lanat and then tender apologize. Can you explain this?[/quote]


There is not a single proof about maafinama, and its totally different thing.
first of ans. me about that verse of azan (namaz if better than sleeping),
is it joke done by your khalifa? or something els??



ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

#212

Unread post by ammar786 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:41 am

Maqbool wrote:
ammar786 wrote:first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.
what is path of jhiliat?

worshiping one GOD? or doing sajdaas to humans?

the path of jahiliat is the on which you are walking and even we worship one god but it is honour or we can say like farz that we should give sajadaas to the great people who thought us to worship god, and even allah comanded to iblis to do sajada for adam but he refused and thus he was thrown in to jahanum. and even if you people continue the same, this will happen with you too.
if you are talking about humans than even our rasul ae khuda was human, i would ask you that even you will refuse to do sajdaa for him??? as that jaahil wahabis do???[/quote]
Rasul-E-Khuda has never asked to do sajda to him. If he has please prove.[/quote]


He has never asked, but the people did beacuse of his rutba even maulana ali did, may be that three khalifa didnt do so you follow there path right?



zinger
Posts: 1874
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#213

Unread post by zinger » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:04 am

Maqbool,

Agree that Duaats in the past have laid down their life for the sake of religon, but it is only their life that was in danger, and not that of the community.

In the Bohra-Sunni riots, the Bohra community was being attacked. Aqa Maula apologised to save us from harm more than anything or anyone else.

you and anyone else here can play their little political spins on this and take out reasons to show how he was being personally affected, but you and we know, it wont be the truth.

Maula was not personally being affected by it in any other way other than that his community was being hurt



wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

#214

Unread post by wise_guy » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:55 am

You call this website as progressive and then you people bring up this issue of lanat again and again which is regressive. That is a closed case and is irrelevant now. There is no point discussing and arguing on that matter now. It is not serving any purpose at all.



zinger
Posts: 1874
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#215

Unread post by zinger » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:57 am

agree and seconded



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

#216

Unread post by voice » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:08 am

Well, once again the issue is been diverted in planned manner by some of the blind followers of muffy camp.
After the news in HT, there is pressure on Mazoon saheb to show his loyalty towards muffy camp and his silence is piercing them.

This thread is exclusively devoted towards exposing the rift inside the Kothar and we have succeeded also in our efforts. Till the SMB is alive Mazoon saheb`s camp is going to adopt policy of silence and wait and watch. In one thing they have scored 100% marks is time chosen to challenge the so called fabricated Nass drama so as the muffy camp is not in the position to answer back either through SMB nor able to provide any solid proof of Nass on mansoos.

Simultaneously, they have succeeded in establishing the 2nd position of Mazoon saheb next to SMB. Now its a internal game of grabbing power through grip in administration. To my knowledge whatever efforts mansoos does to gain support from masses, he is still lacking grip on administration as family ties and relationship of Mazoon saheb are more strong.



S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

#217

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:14 am

Friends,
I have recieved this e-mail yesterday from a mumin of Rajkot. Posting here for your knowlege:-

The recent plight of Vohras is rather saddening.
In Saurashtra area of Gujarat, predominantely speaking Rajkot Area, the following should be of interest to all our readers.
As you are all aware, there is a conflict in progress between Syedna Muffadal and Mazoom Maula, who incidentally happens to be the rightful person for the Gadi. The former is not willing to make any changes in the modus operandi of their administration, irrespective of the consequences. Mazoom Maula group on the other hand is expressing his willingness to reach out to all Momin who pledge their faith in the Qutbi Vohra and also extend help in form of money and housing.
This is in direct conflict with the theory of Fatemi Dawaat which only takes but does not give.
There are over 300 families in Rajkot alone, which have pledged their faith to Qutbi Vohra faction. Among those there are quite a few that are playing political games on both sides.
Interestingly, during Friday Zohar namaz last week, it was candidly discussed that those that will go for the Qutbi faction will be immediately barred from society and will not be allowed to enter the masjids and mazars. Further, immediate alienation will take place in form of boycott from other families.
Mulla Shabbir Joharcardwala ( more famously known as the ladies man) even went on to say that those changing sides will not only suffer boycott of society, but will be subjected to mental and if neccessary physical torture. He further went on to say, that the Fatemi Dawat is very powerful in the political circles and can infuse enough funds (i.e. bribes) to make sure that no untoward incidents are brought to light. Another individual Zujarbhai of Aone caterers went on to say that if push comes to shove, the Kothar will eliminate Mazoom Maula family completely off the face of the earth. This was followed by disgusting profanities and foul language for Mazoom Maula and his family. Words which are beyond my ability to utter.

I am putting down a list of names that are from the Mohammedi Area of Rajkot where this incident was noted. (1) Mulla Shabbir Joharcardwala
(2) Sheikh Yusufbhai Joharcardwala (3) Yusufbhai Mulla Mohammedali Saifee, (4) Juzarbhai Aone Caterers (4) Moiz Laxmidhar (5) Sheikh Ismail Lava ( Vajihi), Idrisbhai Asgarali Gandhi, (6) Mohammedbhai Hathiyari ( compounder), (7) Zainuddinbhai Viad and others.

Amazingly, all of these people are supposedly full fledged followers of Fatemi Dawat, but seems they are also manipulatiing between the two factions to see which side weighs better. Whatever, the case, the repercussions of this issue are not going to be favorable.

From my personal point of view, I knew this was bound to happen. After all, you cannot just take and not give. The higher croonies sitting in the Jamaat office are enjoyiing the benefits of the Dawat, meanwhile, claiming that we are taking care of the Momin. The Momins on the other hand have virtually no idea where they are headed.

What I would really like to know is how long do you think this would go on ? There is going to be a time when the ruling faction will topple over.

I personally have in my hand a list of over 650 families that are ready to migrate to Qutbi Vohra faction. There might come a time when I will have to lead them and guide them along the right path.



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

#218

Unread post by voice » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:18 am

A very informative post shared by S Insaaf on another thread of this forum, please do read...

Friends,
I have recieved this e-mail yesterday from a mumin of Rajkot. Posting here for your knowlege:-

The recent plight of Vohras is rather saddening.
In Saurashtra area of Gujarat, predominantely speaking Rajkot Area, the following should be of interest to all our readers.
As you are all aware, there is a conflict in progress between Syedna Muffadal and Mazoom Maula, who incidentally happens to be the rightful person for the Gadi. The former is not willing to make any changes in the modus operandi of their administration, irrespective of the consequences. Mazoom Maula group on the other hand is expressing his willingness to reach out to all Momin who pledge their faith in the Qutbi Vohra and also extend help in form of money and housing.
This is in direct conflict with the theory of Fatemi Dawaat which only takes but does not give.
There are over 300 families in Rajkot alone, which have pledged their faith to Qutbi Vohra faction. Among those there are quite a few that are playing political games on both sides.
Interestingly, during Friday Zohar namaz last week, it was candidly discussed that those that will go for the Qutbi faction will be immediately barred from society and will not be allowed to enter the masjids and mazars. Further, immediate alienation will take place in form of boycott from other families.
Mulla Shabbir Joharcardwala ( more famously known as the ladies man) even went on to say that those changing sides will not only suffer boycott of society, but will be subjected to mental and if neccessary physical torture. He further went on to say, that the Fatemi Dawat is very powerful in the political circles and can infuse enough funds (i.e. bribes) to make sure that no untoward incidents are brought to light. Another individual Zujarbhai of Aone caterers went on to say that if push comes to shove, the Kothar will eliminate Mazoom Maula family completely off the face of the earth. This was followed by disgusting profanities and foul language for Mazoom Maula and his family. Words which are beyond my ability to utter.

I am putting down a list of names that are from the Mohammedi Area of Rajkot where this incident was noted. (1) Mulla Shabbir Joharcardwala
(2) Sheikh Yusufbhai Joharcardwala (3) Yusufbhai Mulla Mohammedali Saifee, (4) Juzarbhai Aone Caterers (4) Moiz Laxmidhar (5) Sheikh Ismail Lava ( Vajihi), Idrisbhai Asgarali Gandhi, (6) Mohammedbhai Hathiyari ( compounder), (7) Zainuddinbhai Viad and others.

Amazingly, all of these people are supposedly full fledged followers of Fatemi Dawat, but seems they are also manipulatiing between the two factions to see which side weighs better. Whatever, the case, the repercussions of this issue are not going to be favorable.

From my personal point of view, I knew this was bound to happen. After all, you cannot just take and not give. The higher croonies sitting in the Jamaat office are enjoyiing the benefits of the Dawat, meanwhile, claiming that we are taking care of the Momin. The Momins on the other hand have virtually no idea where they are headed.

What I would really like to know is how long do you think this would go on ? There is going to be a time when the ruling faction will topple over.

I personally have in my hand a list of over 650 families that are ready to migrate to Qutbi Vohra faction. There might come a time when I will have to lead them and guide them along the right path.



reluctantreligist
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:02 am

#219

Unread post by reluctantreligist » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:48 am

In this age of such high technology the kothar did not find it prudent to record the nus ,so that it could kill all controversy.
Definately the entire kothar coterie have commited some serious harakiri.
As usual they know foolish bohris are not allowed to question.They will cook up some story in a filmy manner...aa shazaada aava ne pachhi aa shazaada aava ne pachi aam kidhu.ne aam farmaavu.and all the bohris would cry together in unison.naive,gullible,foolish bohris.
How they decked him up from the hospital bed on his 102nd birthday to make a huge killing.is it not sickening.Which children in their right senses would trouble their 102 year old from the icu to come and give darshan so that they could make crores.i pity the old mans plight.probably paying for a lot of misdeeds.
All the dua of qayaamat tak jivoo has backfired ...because it is actually working for him and making his departure even more excruciating.
At the end of it all whether you are a "qutbi"or a "dawoodi"you are still going to be a lamb for slaughter.



Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

#220

Unread post by Rising Star » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:10 am

Mazoon saheb shud clear his position as soon as possible, world wide relay or you tube could be great way...



trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

#221

Unread post by trvoice » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:02 am

Rising Star wrote:Mazoon saheb shud clear his position as soon as possible, world wide relay or you tube could be great way...
Dear Friend,

Why should Mazoon Saaheb clear his position ? In the current state of affairs the only person righteous and senior than Mazoon saaheb who can "demand" an explanation is Syedna himself and no one else. So forget the idea that the gang can force and cave Mazoon saaheb into doing a relay, or apology, or explanation. And dont forget ever "Mazoon saaheb has written proof of nuss by Syedna Taher Saifuddin" which no one has plus. I dont think all this would or even this website would have existed if this was not preplanned 30-40 years back or Mazoon saaheb harassed by you know who.

So since apart from faith everything in dawat is materialistic, so any court in the world would hold materialistic proof .



Adam
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

#222

Unread post by Adam » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:36 pm

Continuing what Grayson said, I would like to add a few more words.

About it not being necessary for the Mazoon to become Mansoos.
There are a few examples, but the most recent it the 50th Dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin. Before his death, the Mazoon was Syedi Dawood BS Shehabuddin and Mukasir was Syedi Taiyyeb BS Zainuddin. Inspite of this Syedna Taher Saifuddin was procliamed Mansoos to the 50th Dai. (There are about 4/5 more such examples)

About the Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS or Syedi Mufaddal BS Saifuddin:
- 19th Rajab 1432 - The Nass Majlis took place, in this The Dai called upon his Mansoos and said the following words (These words are are very audible and clear to those you can speak fluent Lisan Dawat), they were also repeated by Dr Moiz BS:
"Maru Naam Mohammed che, Mohammed Burhanuddin che, Mufadal Bhai ne Nass nu taj pehnayu che, TAMNE (you) Nass na sharaf si musharraf kariye che, be ilhamillahe wa ilhame waliyehi tamney a sharaf apiye che"

- During the month of Ramadan that year 1432, and official MISAAL (Letter) of Nass was sent out to the entire world and was read out by every Amil during Ramadan gathering. This document is an official letter from the office of the Dai. The name of the document is نص داعي الطيب منصور السمن على المولى عقيق اليمن (Nass of the Dai of Imam Taiyeb Mansoor al Yaman (Syedna Burahnuddin), on Moula Aqeeq al Yaman (Syedi Mufaddal BS). This document was shown to all the people present and every word of this letter was read out.

- During that same Ramadan, prior to Lailatul Qadr, Syedna published his yearly RISALA (Book, Letter), which was named Zaat un Noor. This hold the official stamp of Syedna and his office. In this book, amoungst other things discussed, it discusses the events of that year (1432) and talks about the declaration of Nass in London 1426 (To Shz Qaidjohar BS and Shz Malik ul Ashtar BS) and 1432 (between 4 hudood).

Visual, Audible and Documented proof.

Only those who deny the actions of Ghadeer e Khum will follow suit.



Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

#223

Unread post by Sceptical » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:21 pm

Adam bhai,
I agree with you.
But how can we prove that all those documents came from Sayedna's own hands?
I've seen the Raudat tahera video in relay : nor Sayedna's word, nor Moiz Baisaheb's words were audible in our Masjid.
I really want to see again this video.
I'm not against Syedi Muffadal nor against Syedi Khozema. Just a Dowoodi Bohra looking for truth.



voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

#224

Unread post by voice » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:34 pm

SMB after his stroke, never was able to regain his normal health and he was and is still a puppet in hands of muffy mafia. A planned and systematic propaganda of fabricated Nass and elimination of Mazoon saheb from his legitimate rights was done.

But thankfully scenario is changing.



LFT
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

#225

Unread post by LFT » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:04 pm

This whole scenario is really interesting - Despite all attempts to make Mansoos the Moula-in standing so many people in the community are looking at the situation and providing an honest analysis. I think what this suggests is that there are many people looking for a way out. A lot of these are likely those that cant/wont leave because of their reverence of SMB or family pressures. A split would provide an exit!



Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

#226

Unread post by Grayson » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:47 pm

Sceptical sums up the doubt succinctly.

Edit: Although from what I recall, Moiz bhaisahebs words were audible. Despite fondness from what I've heard of the man, doubt's still in reliability of the chain of events.



Rising Star
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 am

#227

Unread post by Rising Star » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:02 pm

Adam you are a liar, in no incident it was clear that smb has done any nuss on Mufaddal....

and it is easy to print any thing and distribute world wide, so what was written doesn't holds any water....

mufaddal has no proof of this nuss, whats so ever !!!



albader
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:05 pm

#228

Unread post by albader » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:09 pm

I am Dawoodi Bohra.....i heard about new qutbi Bohra .....i am not interested any new bohra community will firm......why all these talks came out because all Dawoodi Bohra mumeenin minds are not clear...they are in two mind....one they follower of Syedna wa maulana abu kaid Zahar Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb (T.U.S) as 52nd dai of zaman....and second they are follower of Mazoone Dawat Khuzema bhai saheb Qutbuddin (T.U.S) as a Mazoone Dawat...but from long time Mazoone dawat not seen in main event...all dawat works he has to handle under Dai Syerdna Mohammad Burhanuddin saheb(t.U.S) raza mubarak si...still our maula (T.U.S) is alive and alive for thousands of years ..aamin.....so secondly in his present all works go to Mazoon saheb....but all mumeenin seein that Mazoon saheb is not doing all this..and manssos syedi Muffadal bhai saheb (T.U.S) is handling all works...and start new group Qutbi bohra.....so my question is why there are not clear why this all happenning...why Mazoon e dawat not handling all works....what is real senario.....this must be clear soon from all dawoodi bohra mumeenin minds otherwise may another new bohra will comes out...one is on board as Kutbi Bohra..just started....it is real or not...gods know.



attarwala_salim
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:44 pm

#229

Unread post by attarwala_salim » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:59 pm

happy birthdayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

can any body confirm that makin off the new bohra conunity pls



wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

#230

Unread post by wise_guy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:00 am

albader wrote:I am Dawoodi Bohra.....i heard about new qutbi Bohra .....i am not interested any new bohra community will firm......why all these talks came out because all Dawoodi Bohra mumeenin minds are not clear...they are in two mind....one they follower of Syedna wa maulana abu kaid Zahar Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb (T.U.S) as 52nd dai of zaman....and second they are follower of Mazoone Dawat Khuzema bhai saheb Qutbuddin (T.U.S) as a Mazoone Dawat...but from long time Mazoone dawat not seen in main event...all dawat works he has to handle under Dai Syerdna Mohammad Burhanuddin saheb(t.U.S) raza mubarak si...still our maula (T.U.S) is alive and alive for thousands of years ..aamin.....so secondly in his present all works go to Mazoon saheb....but all mumeenin seein that Mazoon saheb is not doing all this..and manssos syedi Muffadal bhai saheb (T.U.S) is handling all works...and start new group Qutbi bohra.....so my question is why there are not clear why this all happenning...why Mazoon e dawat not handling all works....what is real senario.....this must be clear soon from all dawoodi bohra mumeenin minds otherwise may another new bohra will comes out...one is on board as Kutbi Bohra..just started....it is real or not...gods know.
can somebody translate this in English :lol:



ammar786
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:51 am

#231

Unread post by ammar786 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:15 am

Sceptical wrote:Adam bhai,
I agree with you.
But how can we prove that all those documents came from Sayedna's own hands?
I've seen the Raudat tahera video in relay : nor Sayedna's word, nor Moiz Baisaheb's words were audible in our Masjid.
I really want to see again this video.
I'm not against Syedi Muffadal nor against Syedi Khozema. Just a Dowoodi Bohra looking for truth.

Actually bro our whole community witnessed this event, i am quite amazed how come you think like this or ask for a proof???
There is no point to think beacause even syedna mohammed burhanddin aqa (t.u.s) ye aaliqadar maula(t.u.s) ne shawl pehnavi and even mukasir maula ye bhi pehnavi. may long live maula(t.u.s)

so its clear.. and even now if you have doubts than we are helpless or its tragedy of your luck.
may allah grant you taufeeq



Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

#232

Unread post by Sceptical » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:16 am

Ammar786 bhai,

Thanks for your "taufeeq" :wink:

You probably misunderstand my post. I just wanted to say that any documents come from SMB mullah after his stroke are not a proof.

I don't really doubt about the legitimity of the nuss upon Muffaddal Mullah. Despite some troubling events :
- bad video quality
- Why SMB mullah has waited so long to perform Nass-e-jali? We all now that he couldn't speak intelligibly since his stroke.
- Mazoom mullah was not present in Raudat Tahera
- ...

Hope this Qutbi bohra is just a rumor. I personnaly don't think that a split will occur after SMB Mullah. But our history has shown us that this kind of events are common even in Imam's era. We have to analyse this issue objectively : this situation even reflects the current unrest in our society.



pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

#233

Unread post by pheonix » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:03 am

Adam wrote:Continuing what Grayson said, I would like to add a few more words.

About it not being necessary for the Mazoon to become Mansoos.
There are a few examples, but the most recent it the 50th Dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin. Before his death, the Mazoon was Syedi Dawood BS Shehabuddin and Mukasir was Syedi Taiyyeb BS Zainuddin. Inspite of this Syedna Taher Saifuddin was procliamed Mansoos to the 50th Dai. (There are about 4/5 more such examples)

About the Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS or Syedi Mufaddal BS Saifuddin:
- 19th Rajab 1432 - The Nass Majlis took place, in this The Dai called upon his Mansoos and said the following words (These words are are very audible and clear to those you can speak fluent Lisan Dawat), they were also repeated by Dr Moiz BS:
"Maru Naam Mohammed che, Mohammed Burhanuddin che, Mufadal Bhai ne Nass nu taj pehnayu che, TAMNE (you) Nass na sharaf si musharraf kariye che, be ilhamillahe wa ilhame waliyehi tamney a sharaf apiye che"

- During the month of Ramadan that year 1432, and official MISAAL (Letter) of Nass was sent out to the entire world and was read out by every Amil during Ramadan gathering. This document is an official letter from the office of the Dai. The name of the document is نص داعي الطيب منصور السمن على المولى عقيق اليمن (Nass of the Dai of Imam Taiyeb Mansoor al Yaman (Syedna Burahnuddin), on Moula Aqeeq al Yaman (Syedi Mufaddal BS). This document was shown to all the people present and every word of this letter was read out.

- During that same Ramadan, prior to Lailatul Qadr, Syedna published his yearly RISALA (Book, Letter), which was named Zaat un Noor. This hold the official stamp of Syedna and his office. In this book, amoungst other things discussed, it discusses the events of that year (1432) and talks about the declaration of Nass in London 1426 (To Shz Qaidjohar BS and Shz Malik ul Ashtar BS) and 1432 (between 4 hudood).

Visual, Audible and Documented proof.

Only those who deny the actions of Ghadeer e Khum will follow suit.
Also Adam, the ignoramus seem to be forget there are other hudoods of Dawat besides the Mazoon and Mukasir. People like Hakimuddin Saheb and Kalimuddin Saheb whose (ilmi) credentials are unquestionable have all given allegiance to Aali Qadr ( as witnessed in the AV relay of Milad and numerous other occasions).



progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

#234

Unread post by progticide » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:47 am

The Inside Story Revealed

(Admin, I also know that you too could corroborate this below news which has come to me from a source in the reformist club, so play fair and do not censor this post)

Even Insaf cannot deny this report. There is a section of reformists who are extremely unhappy with the current state of rumours being circulated by Insaf and his cronies. They refer to the damage being caused to their movement through this irresponsible and immature action of Insaf and party as greater than any other damage in the last 40 years. They(the senior reformists) believe this hilarious and most childish rumour mill (and branding this as hilarious and childish is by the reformist themselves who know that this entire conspiracy theory is only a imaginative fantasy of some idiots) being circulated is actually doing harm to the reformist lobby by creating greater confusion within the rank and file of the reformist population who are worried about their own sense of belonging to the community, whereas the ordinary DBs have not even bothered to give a glance to this rumour-mongering.

A section of senior reformists is already planning to disown Insaf and company and disasssociate themselves from the activities of Insaf and company. The only reason they are not showing their outright protest on this forum to this entire rumour episode is because they dont want to display their disunity and disintegrity openly on a public forum, that too on one which is promoted by them.

So, Insaf, now you may get a pink slip from the reformist jamat itself
. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

#235

Unread post by Fateh » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:47 am

pheonix wrote:
Adam wrote:Continuing what Grayson said, I would like to add a few more words.

About it not being necessary for the Mazoon to become Mansoos.
There are a few examples, but the most recent it the 50th Dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin. Before his death, the Mazoon was Syedi Dawood BS Shehabuddin and Mukasir was Syedi Taiyyeb BS Zainuddin. Inspite of this Syedna Taher Saifuddin was procliamed Mansoos to the 50th Dai. (There are about 4/5 more such examples)

About the Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS or Syedi Mufaddal BS Saifuddin:
- 19th Rajab 1432 - The Nass Majlis took place, in this The Dai called upon his Mansoos and said the following words (These words are are very audible and clear to those you can speak fluent Lisan Dawat), they were also repeated by Dr Moiz BS:
"Maru Naam Mohammed che, Mohammed Burhanuddin che, Mufadal Bhai ne Nass nu taj pehnayu che, TAMNE (you) Nass na sharaf si musharraf kariye che, be ilhamillahe wa ilhame waliyehi tamney a sharaf apiye che"

- During the month of Ramadan that year 1432, and official MISAAL (Letter) of Nass was sent out to the entire world and was read out by every Amil during Ramadan gathering. This document is an official letter from the office of the Dai. The name of the document is نص داعي الطيب منصور السمن على المولى عقيق اليمن (Nass of the Dai of Imam Taiyeb Mansoor al Yaman (Syedna Burahnuddin), on Moula Aqeeq al Yaman (Syedi Mufaddal BS). This document was shown to all the people present and every word of this letter was read out.

- During that same Ramadan, prior to Lailatul Qadr, Syedna published his yearly RISALA (Book, Letter), which was named Zaat un Noor. This hold the official stamp of Syedna and his office. In this book, amoungst other things discussed, it discusses the events of that year (1432) and talks about the declaration of Nass in London 1426 (To Shz Qaidjohar BS and Shz Malik ul Ashtar BS) and 1432 (between 4 hudood).

Visual, Audible and Documented proof.

Only those who deny the actions of Ghadeer e Khum will follow suit.
Also Adam, the ignoramus seem to be forget there are other hudoods of Dawat besides the Mazoon and Mukasir. People like Hakimuddin Saheb and Kalimuddin Saheb whose (ilmi) credentials are unquestionable have all given allegiance to Aali Qadr ( as witnessed in the AV relay of Milad and numerous other occasions).
Every one of this world is having price tag.



Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

#236

Unread post by Grayson » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:26 am

A thought worth considering:

After the alleged "nuss", there have been various events in which both Syedna and Mufaddal bhaisaheb have been present together. The most prominent (to me) being Ashara 2 years ago. I do not recall seeing the Syedna rebuke Mufaddal bhaisaheb a single time. On the contrary he seemed to do ishaaro with his hands of what to do or not, but didn't show displeasure or impatience with his son.

On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Mazoon saheb with Syedna for a long time. I guess kothar (smb's sons) intentionally kept them away from each other, but then again considering Syedna's medical state, Mazoon saheb claiming that Syedna did nuss on him based on one of their meetings would be no different from the declaration of nuss on the mansoos. Atleast in regards to verification. What a mess.

Despite various people coming out to claim conversion and dissent I haven't honestly heard anything about this issue from friends in India and elsewhere (the type of friends that'd speak to me about these things up front) so while I do not denounce it completely, I'm not sure how much stock I put into those claims. Although to be fair, they're specified, while I have no resource to research further.



fearAllah
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 am

#237

Unread post by fearAllah » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:42 am

Grayson wrote: On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Mazoon saheb with Syedna for a long time. I guess kothar (smb's sons) intentionally kept them away from each other, but then again considering Syedna's medical state, Mazoon saheb claiming that Syedna did nuss on him based on one of their meetings would be no different from the declaration of nuss on the mansoos. Atleast in regards to verification. What a mess.
Mazoom does not claim that nuss was made on him by Sayedna, he claims that Taher Seifuddin promised/honoured him with the 53rd office in writing before he died.



Humsafar
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#238

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:45 am

Pesticide is back with earth-shattering inside scoop, in other words, he is as usual scraping the bottom of the barrel. Insaf sahab is going to be booted out of the reform movement, what an unbelievable tragedy. This is the end of the reform movement as we know it. OK all ye rag tag reformists, fold up and go home. But where to do the go? To Mansoos or Mazoon? Strangely, they have a choice now. :)
Just for the record, it was not Insaf sahab who started this rumour, you stinking salivating slave.



fearAllah
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 am

#239

Unread post by fearAllah » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:50 am

fearAllah wrote:
Grayson wrote: On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Mazoon saheb with Syedna for a long time. I guess kothar (smb's sons) intentionally kept them away from each other, but then again considering Syedna's medical state, Mazoon saheb claiming that Syedna did nuss on him based on one of their meetings would be no different from the declaration of nuss on the mansoos. Atleast in regards to verification. What a mess.
Mazoom does not claim that nuss was made on him by Sayedna, he claims that Taher Seifuddin promised/honoured him with the 53rd office in writing before he died.
And that may well be the reason Sayedna couldnt do nuss on his son for all this years, and then suddenly he gets admitted to ICU and we hear that a "nuss" has been made lol funny, what was he doing all this years when he was healthy?



shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

#240

Unread post by shabbir4u » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:32 am

albader wrote:I am Dawoodi Bohra.....i heard about new qutbi Bohra .....i am not interested any new bohra community will firm......why all these talks came out because all Dawoodi Bohra mumeenin minds are not clear...they are in two mind....one they follower of Syedna wa maulana abu kaid Zahar Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb (T.U.S) as 52nd dai of zaman....and second they are follower of Mazoone Dawat Khuzema bhai saheb Qutbuddin (T.U.S) as a Mazoone Dawat...but from long time Mazoone dawat not seen in main event...all dawat works he has to handle under Dai Syerdna Mohammad Burhanuddin saheb(t.U.S) raza mubarak si...still our maula (T.U.S) is alive and alive for thousands of years ..aamin.....so secondly in his present all works go to Mazoon saheb....but all mumeenin seein that Mazoon saheb is not doing all this..and manssos syedi Muffadal bhai saheb (T.U.S) is handling all works...and start new group Qutbi bohra.....so my question is why there are not clear why this all happenning...why Mazoon e dawat not handling all works....what is real senario.....this must be clear soon from all dawoodi bohra mumeenin minds otherwise may another new bohra will comes out...one is on board as Kutbi Bohra..just started....it is real or not...gods know.
If you are not Intrested in any bohra commmunity pls keep your mouth shut.Mind your own Busniess.Noone is telling you to open your stupid mouth. :D