Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
zinger
Posts: 1978
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#61

Unread post by zinger » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:42 am

dont know why, but my reply to Boom appeared in triplicate. must be a glitch in the system

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#62

Unread post by KM1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:56 am

Has anyone joint Qutbi Bohra

shapur
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:35 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#63

Unread post by shapur » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:02 am

KM1 wrote:Has anyone joint Qutbi Bohra
Do not know about "Qutbi Bohras" but yes, the people in this forum are sure to be branded as " Could be Bohras ?" by the others.

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#64

Unread post by voice » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:45 am

zinger wrote,
I didnt realise i was having a hard time justifying my love for my Dai and in all honesty janaab, i see no reason why i need to.
Once you will develop the same love for Allah and His Book (Quran) than you`ll realize the biggest tragedy imposed on Bohras by this clergy. You start understanding Quran and you`ll realize how misinterpreted it is been quoted by this clergy and everything is easy as they have neither ever presented translation of Quran nor they allow it to read with understanding. Once you`ll see the light than in-sha-Allah you`ll never love darkness.
KM1 wrote,
Has anyone joint Qutbi Bohra
It is too early to predict the real picture as all the cards are not opened. Its a close door rift but gradually time is been utilized by different camps to strengthen themselves. Whatever is been going around is part of the bigger game played behind the curtains. It depends more on people that if they are willing for change than surely in coming days we can see more of this drama unfolding. That`s why I am constantly saying that " wait and watch". Allah is best of the planners.

KM1
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#65

Unread post by KM1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:57 am

shapur wrote:It is too early to predict the real picture as all the cards are not opened. Its a close door rift but gradually time is been utilized by different camps to strengthen themselves. Whatever is been going around is part of the bigger game played behind the curtains. It depends more on people that if they are willing for change than surely in coming days we can see more of this drama unfolding. That`s why I am constantly saying that " wait and watch". Allah is best of the planners.
VV well written

Then may i know why are we discussing this issue when its still not in our domain and worrying and discussing and giving importance to something which I don't think is ever going to happen.

Creating problems by taking out bulletins and running a forum is all very easy to do but to start a community and take responsibility is not easy and you need lots of resources and man power and I dont think its that easy as its discussed here.

And i know Mazoom saheb and is family vv well they are v smart and intellecual people they would never ever attempt or do something like this yes I dont say they will accept Mufaddal mola so easily but like in Hatim bs funeral mazoom saheb had to sit below and give respect to Mufaddal Mola they will do it in future also when its needed but I dont think they can ever refuse or deny the nass because its happen not only in London hospital but also on Urus of Syd Taher Saifuddin in presence of more then thousand of crowd Aqa Moula repeated the whole process and made him seat after him so I dont think there is any dispute

zinger
Posts: 1978
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#66

Unread post by zinger » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:38 am

voice wrote:
zinger wrote,
I didnt realise i was having a hard time justifying my love for my Dai and in all honesty janaab, i see no reason why i need to.
Once you will develop the same love for Allah and His Book (Quran) than you`ll realize the biggest tragedy imposed on Bohras by this clergy. You start understanding Quran and you`ll realize how misinterpreted it is been quoted by this clergy and everything is easy as they have neither ever presented translation of Quran nor they allow it to read with understanding. Once you`ll see the light than in-sha-Allah you`ll never love darkness.
KM1 wrote,
Has anyone joint Qutbi Bohra
It is too early to predict the real picture as all the cards are not opened. Its a close door rift but gradually time is been utilized by different camps to strengthen themselves. Whatever is been going around is part of the bigger game played behind the curtains. It depends more on people that if they are willing for change than surely in coming days we can see more of this drama unfolding. That`s why I am constantly saying that " wait and watch". Allah is best of the planners.

Voice, you dont understand, coming to this site has really opened my eyes.

It actuall HAS helped me to get my priorities right. It HAS made me realise that there is a power greater than our Dai and that is Allah... Believe it or not i am teaching the same thing to my son now, and hopefully, me nephew too, who is being sent to a madrassa.

i heard my Bhabhi telling my nephew once when he was being naughty that "Maula badhu joi che... tane punish karse" so... yes i was a little disturbed by it, but it was her kid, i chose to stay out of it

yes, the clergy is the main root of the entire turmoil. their greed, their hunger for power... yes i know how you will connect it to our Dai and i am powerless to stop you from doing it.

please... i know we are doing some things wrong. we are trying to right it. if you cannot help us, dont rub our noses into it atleast...

lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#67

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:40 am

KM1 wrote:
shapur wrote:It is too early to predict the real picture as all the cards are not opened. Its a close door rift but gradually time is been utilized by different camps to strengthen themselves. Whatever is been going around is part of the bigger game played behind the curtains. It depends more on people that if they are willing for change than surely in coming days we can see more of this drama unfolding. That`s why I am constantly saying that " wait and watch". Allah is best of the planners.
VV well written

Then may i know why are we discussing this issue when its still not in our domain and worrying and discussing and giving importance to something which I don't think is ever going to happen.

Creating problems by taking out bulletins and running a forum is all very easy to do but to start a community and take responsibility is not easy and you need lots of resources and man power and I dont think its that easy as its discussed here.

And i know Mazoom saheb and is family vv well they are v smart and intellecual people they would never ever attempt or do something like this yes I dont say they will accept Mufaddal mola so easily but like in Hatim bs funeral mazoom saheb had to sit below and give respect to Mufaddal Mola they will do it in future also when its needed but I dont think they can ever refuse or deny the nass because its happen not only in London hospital but also on Urus of Syd Taher Saifuddin in presence of more then thousand of crowd Aqa Moula repeated the whole process and made him seat after him so I dont think there is any dispute
I dont think MB is conscious after what ever drama happened in london hospital....

he is constantly under heavy medication, and he dont even know what is happening around him...

these guys have kept him alive, just because people are still attached with him, once mufaddal will think he is okay with crowd, they will say good bye to MB.

khel khallas and paisa hajam :D

lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#68

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:45 am

right now mufaddal body language is submissive (but still he cant hide his romeeo avataar) any ways, once MB is out of game, just see how mufaddal shows his true colors.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#69

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:13 am

zinger wrote:
I didnt realise i was having a hard time justifying my love for my Dai and in all honesty janaab, i see no reason why i need to.
kfc zinger nuggets,

you didnt realise you were having a hard time justifying your LOVE for dai, but we realised it a long time ago. we can see you struggling, trying to show that you are not worshipping him, but only 'loving' him.

well at the end of the day, my friend, you don't need to justify anything to anybody, but you will need to justify it to your conscience. after all you have to live with it until you die. btw, that analogy of dai being your father and all that is utter bull. he is not your father and never will be, i am sure your father earned an honest living, struggling against life's challenges, he kept his family happy and was fair and sincere in his dealings with all his children. compare it with the dai who has never 'earned' any income of his own but lives off his followers without providing any accounts, who lives a life of extreme luxury in palaces and ignores the poorest of his 'children', who goes on hunting trips and murders wild animals for pleasure and sport, who encourages assaults on those who disagree with him, who has sidelined the legitimate rights of his own brother - the mazoon - over his own ayyash sons, who keeps silent while his followers - his 'children' - are being robbed and bullied, who loves his birthdays celebrated with utmost and shameless pomp and grandeur with his 'children's' money, who takes money from his 'children' in the name of grandiose bogus projects and then quietly pockets all their money and gives them zilch in return, who propagates false mojizas to increase his own shaan.... did/does your father do such unethical and inhuman things?

in the balance, you will realise that your father is a far better and honest human being that this cunning dai and his parasite family!

if all these things still don't open your eyes, then either you are blind or are naive in the extreme, or probably a confused person who doesn't know where he stands with his convictions. there is no treatment for your 'disease'. trying to justify your love for the dai with all sorts of lame and silly excuses is only a stupid eyewash to hoodwink yourself and others.


lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#70

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:55 am

those who thinks MB is there father please reply to my question.....


when QURAAN clearly mention even prophet MUHAMMED (s) is not father of ummah, how come MB became father of 1 million Bohras?
Attachments
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lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#71

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:05 am

unless u all are test tube babies :mrgreen:

Starwars
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29 am

Qutbi Bohra

#72

Unread post by Starwars » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:21 am

zinger wrote:Starwars... and to hate him, --- begin to 'hate' him. ---start to hate him. ---but it will not turn to hate. --and full of hate ---continue to hate our Dai, ---- our love cannot overnight turn to hate---


Zinger you have completely misconstrued my description of 'love'. You have emphatically used the word 'hate' SIX TIMES (highlighted above) in your reply to me yet I never said it even once! Take it easy.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#73

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:05 am

zinger wrote:
humsafar saab, its actually quite difficult to brainwash the current generation of Bohras because we are all much more educated than what our fathers are.

as for whether Dais in the past were loved or revered, well yes, it is not written in any books, but that does not mean that people did not feel it.
yes you are right, it may not have been there in the past, but can you say it with absolute certainty? im guessing not. maybe you will look at your family enviorenment and say perhaps no. others might look at their family enviorenments and say perhaps yes. i dont think there really is any correct answer for this.

yes, i do get all mushy when i think of my Dai, i see nothing wrong in it. i doubt if my upbringing has anything to do with it :) im rational enough to be not swayed by my parents. my love stemmed from what i have known him to be all these years. seeing parts of reality now, does not change my opinion of him drastically

yes, i agree, loving and worshipping the Dai is a very thin line, which is why i agreed that there are some extremist Bohras out there, here too, who 'worship' the Dai. We try to guide them, but dont do it to overtly or strongly... consequences could be hazardous to health you see :wink:

I didnt realise i was having a hard time justifying my love for my Dai and in all honesty janaab, i see no reason why i need to.
zinger,
You don't get it, do you? You're not supposed to "love" the Dai. Nothing in your doctrine, tradition, history, past tells you that you must "love" your Dai. But the fact is that you "love" him, so it is a new thing, an innovation which has been drilled into your head. What you facilely call "my love stemmed from what i have known him to be all these years" is nothing but subliminal conditioning that you imbibed from your environment, from things that you saw and you experienced. Of course you're rational enough not to be swayed by your parents, but the kind of love you are projecting for the Dai cannot be rational. No love of any kind can be rational.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#74

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:32 pm

Humsafar:

You are forgetting the 7 Daem, and the first one is valayat, which means mohabbat of Allah, Panjatan, Aimmat and Doat, even in quran Allah says somewhere ( acrude translation)," Mohammed don't ask any wage from people except ask for the love of people for you and your relatives" .

You say you beliueve in the tenets of Bohra religion then why forget the 7 Daem?

love is part of the religion.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#75

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:36 pm

Kaka Akela,
Walayat/Walayah is interpreted as guardianship of ahle bayt and their progeny (Dai is not part of it). Some interpret Walayat as "love", even so it cannot be the kind of "love" abde Bohras profess for their Dai. Personally, I would take "love of God" in mystical, spiritual terms where one's identity merges with the divine, culminating in absolute unity, all becoming One. Abde Bohras "love" of Dai is more in the realm of devotion and worship, which clearly contravenes the tenet of Walayat.

lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#76

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:56 pm

Kaka Akela wrote:Humsafar:

You are forgetting the 7 Daem, and the first one is valayat, which means mohabbat of Allah, Panjatan, Aimmat and Doat, even in quran Allah says somewhere ( acrude translation)," Mohammed don't ask any wage from people except ask for the love of people for you and your relatives" .

You say you beliueve in the tenets of Bohra religion then why forget the 7 Daem?

love is part of the religion.
and who decided that there shud be 7 daim?

coz QURAAN speaks, just about Namaz,Taharat,Zakaat,Roza,Jihad,Haj.

lawyer
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#77

Unread post by lawyer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:03 pm

and BTW

walayah can never be a DAIM, why?

you cannot force any one to love some body......

I love ahlul bayt and TRUTHFUL people coz I respect and love them from my heart, not coz its a DAIM.

zinger
Posts: 1978
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#78

Unread post by zinger » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:40 am

Starwars wrote:
zinger wrote:Starwars... and to hate him, --- begin to 'hate' him. ---start to hate him. ---but it will not turn to hate. --and full of hate ---continue to hate our Dai, ---- our love cannot overnight turn to hate---


Zinger you have completely misconstrued my description of 'love'. You have emphatically used the word 'hate' SIX TIMES (highlighted above) in your reply to me yet I never said it even once! Take it easy.

Didnt mean to make that point so "pointedly" ;-)

Was just that it came up that often.

zinger
Posts: 1978
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#79

Unread post by zinger » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:46 am

Humsafar saab, youre right. Love is never rational. anyways have said what I wanted to. We are all entitled to our points of view and opinions

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#80

Unread post by pheonix » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:59 am

Humsafar wrote:Kaka Akela,
Walayat/Walayah is interpreted as guardianship of ahle bayt and their progeny (Dai is not part of it). Some interpret Walayat as "love", even so it cannot be the kind of "love" abde Bohras profess for their Dai. Personally, I would take "love of God" in mystical, spiritual terms where one's identity merges with the divine, culminating in absolute unity, all becoming One. Abde Bohras "love" of Dai is more in the realm of devotion and worship, which clearly contravenes the tenet of Walayat.
Copied it from the Sufi handbook, did you?

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#81

Unread post by voice » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:46 pm

11th march monday is Mazoon saheb`s birthday,

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#82

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:37 pm

zinger wrote: Love is never rational. anyways have said what I wanted to. We are all entitled to our points of view and opinions
yes, you are entitled to your views and opinions, even if by your own admission they are irrational..

for instance, i have a very smart zanzibari cockatoo (the smartest of all the parakeets) which i have trained to repeat 24/7 the following few phrases:

mara momeeno, hu tamara vastey dua karu chhu
(followed by sounds of sobbing)

hussain par purjosh maatam karjo
(followed by sounds of sobbing)

tamey mara farzando chho
(followed by sounds of sobbing)

i have now come to believe that he is the incarnation of a dai and so have some of my abde friends. the fact that he loves khaaras, mithaas, chillies and mukhwas only further drives home the point that he is indeed a dai.


voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#83

Unread post by voice » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:08 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:An empire or a civilisation is never destroyed by outside forces, until it is destroyed within.
-- the eminent historian Gibbon.
The process is on, history is repeating itself. Hope for the best.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#84

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:23 pm

voice wrote: The process is on, history is repeating itself. Hope for the best.
you mean this parrot will destroy this evil edifice single-handedly?? in that case lets train some more zanzibari cockatoo's and unleash them into each jammat!

Momin Mukhlis
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#85

Unread post by Momin Mukhlis » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:30 am

Ahmak gayo Hayula ma
Peeru che rehbar na Rutba ma
Bhikari thaya sagla Reformist
Zindagi guzare che Hasad ma Jalwa ma...

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#86

Unread post by asad » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:45 am

Momin Mukhlis wrote:Ahmak gayo Hayula ma
Peeru che rehbar na Rutba ma
Bhikari thaya sagla Reformist
Zindagi guzare che Hasad ma Jalwa ma...
Some one coming from Hayula should only know where Ahmed is residing. Please confirm your informer.

Momin Mukhlis
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#87

Unread post by Momin Mukhlis » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:49 am

asad wrote:
Momin Mukhlis wrote:Ahmak gayo Hayula ma
Peeru che rehbar na Rutba ma
Bhikari thaya sagla Reformist
Zindagi guzare che Hasad ma Jalwa ma...
Some one coming from Hayula should only know where Ahmed is residing. Please confirm your informer.
Ahmak is residing in Hayula... It's Confirmed.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#88

Unread post by asad » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:20 am

Momin Mukhlis wrote:
asad wrote: Some one coming from Hayula should only know where Ahmed is residing. Please confirm your informer.
Ahmak is residing in Hayula... It's Confirmed.
Who confirmed?

mnoorani
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:05 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#89

Unread post by mnoorani » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:26 am

Momin Mukhlis wrote:Ahmak gayo Hayula ma
HAMNA TO DAI CHE BHUL BHULAYYA MA

Peeru che rehbar na Rutba ma
SOODH KHOR CHE SAIFEE MAHAL MA

Bhikari thaya sagla Reformist
BHEEK TO MAANGE MOLA NAJWA MA

Zindagi guzare che Hasad ma Jalwa ma...
KOTHAAR TO CHE AYYAASHI MA

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

#90

Unread post by voice » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:06 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
voice wrote: The process is on, history is repeating itself. Hope for the best.
you mean this parrot will destroy this evil edifice single-handedly?? in that case lets train some more zanzibari cockatoo's and unleash them into each jammat!
Don`t underestimate the power of Termite.

For all those who are not taking these matter seriously, I appeal to them that don`t be just mute spectator, search for the truth and you`ll realize that inside war in kothar is speeding up. Those who want reform in Bohra Society then they should do there level best efforts to encash these opportunity by every means.

I don`t think that there is any harm in providing conditional support to Mazoon saheb Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin`s camp. Wait and watch is there policy but why it should be our`s?