Moula Cares

[abde53]

Saturday, 23rd March 2013
Baad Salaam Al-Jameel,

As we all know, Aaliqadar Syedi Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin Saheb has emphasized the need to free ourselves from all Moharramaat. For many years now, Aaqamola (TUS) has also been instructing us to cleanse ourselves from all vices.

Accordingly, a special maaraz (exhibition) and awareness drive has also been started, as well as a De-Addiction counseling clinic has been organized by His Holiness Dr. Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA) Memorial Foundation in Saifee Hospital. Mumineen who are consuming tobacco/alcohol or any such addictive substances can come to this free clinic, where a strong effort will be made to help them rid themselves of these ill substances. Identity of the persons shall be kept confidential and their privacy will be maintained.

It is earnestly requested to all mumineen that if they are aware of anyone entangled in these vices/Moharramaat, they should encourage the victims to seek help to get rid of these ill habits. To make an appointment with the De-Addiction counseling center, at Saifee Hospital. Please call 022-67570111 any time between 8:00 AM-8:00 PM. (Monday to Saturday )

We hope that everyone will take advantage of these free services. It is our earnest duty to obey farman and see to it that ourselves or those we know become completely liberated from Moharramaat.

May Allah grant a long and healthy life to our Aqa Maula (TUS) and his Mansoos Aliqader Mufaddal Bhaisaheb.
Vasalaam,

[SBM]

Br Abde
Good initiative. how can one be sure that privacy will be maintained if one is asked to call and make an appointment. If you call for an appointment they will ask your name and E Jamaat card number which may be entered in their central system. CAN YOU TRUST KOTHARI GOONS ABOUT ONCE PRIVACY?

Identity of the persons shall be kept confidential and their privacy will be maintained.

To make an appointment with the De-Addiction counseling center, at Saifee Hospital. Please call 022-67570111 any time between 8:00 AM-8:00 PM. (Monday to Saturday )

Also almost 50% of Zaadas/Shaiks/NKDS and Mullas will be disqualified from their titles. Sarkar Family, largest benefactor to Kothari Goons will be out of business too

[think]

also figure out why the so called pious bohri got into this bad habit to start with. Was it the pressure and stress from the clergy to give him money or be baraat. or ruin his social life all togetehr by the clergy's goons.

[think]

morela cares about money not about people. If he was genuine there would be no need for secrecy. There would be tranparency no secrecy in the affairs and no prferential treatment. The balance sheet would be open for any one to veiw.

[Al Zulfiqar]

isn't doing enforced purjosh maatam 24/7 in the name of hussain, thereby heaping indignity on his shahadat, also a moharramat? shouldn't abde/amte bohras also be treated for this addiction to self-flagellation?

isn't breaking out into sobs and uncontrollable grief at the sight of mola also an addiction and thus a moharramat? shouldn't abdes be made to undergo treatment for this ocd (obsessive compulsive disorder) as well?

[Al Qalam]

I hope they make this clinic available to both Bohra and Non-Bohra.

[seeker110]

Senior Mola was loaded with medicine when he was brought in Masjid for Nus announcement. How else can anyone sit through the countless rasm of collecting money. Why not open free clinics?

[ghulam muhammed]

The Title is MOULA CARES -----

I hope he "Cared" more for his sons and gave strict lessons on the "Haraam" things that they do rather then give lectures to the abdes on "Makru". The immediate thing which comes in mind is the liquor shops in their buildings and the rent income which they get from it. The Dai should know that getting associated with alcohol in any manner is totally "Haraam", he should also know that before lecturing on the evils of interest income he should first stop leasing out his properties to banks whose sole income is interest............ Needless to say that "Extortion" tops the list !!

[Bohra spring]

This is a master class initiative that the kothar have devised , this is something the Muffy wants to create a legacy.

Eradicating the alcohol, tobacco and drugs is a very worthy cause and I think the rebels and PDB have to give Abdes credit for coming up with a good idea, regardless how they execute, whet here they bungle it up , so what at least they have made an attempt.

I criticised the tiffin , bendi bazaar for being irrelevant to global affairs but this new initiative and issues affects every Bohra family in whichever part of the planet. They have found something that is islamically and morally an issue , governments, NGO , other faiths everyone is trying to address it.

But it disturbs and shows how silly PDB members who themselves cannot do anything globally , would sit on the fence and throw stones and mock the initiative . It will be honourable for them to unite and assist the abdes. If not than look within your own PDB group and find out if you are affected by the same issues and feel free to copy the strategy.

Regardless of kothar motive the issue is more paramount...end justifies the means. I have stated before let past be past we have to build a future which is more important. If Muffy relatives sold alcohol so let it be ..at least currently there is no evidence he does so . If He has turned a page and we should encourage him on this specific initiative.

The society benefits outweigh our revolution.

I myself have a family member who is affected by khat and mawo and I have personally suggested them to seek counselling from their local abde jamaat to get out of it.

When I mentioned elsewhere muffy team reads such sites and quickly learns. This time they may have struck gold.

By this they will gain affection and respect, muffy will have changed lives, made an impression , and regain credibility from non bohras.

Abdes well done and congrats and good luck in eradicating this terrible vice. Credit deserved.

Yours truly rebel at heart.

[Conscíous]

It is a good initiative but there is also a sinister reason behind this.. One can only imagine what kind consolation this people are going to give.. And why are they demanding for a blood test?? Were is the trust?? And who do you think is going to pay for all that ??
To tell you the truth, I find nothing more dreadful than handing over my personal info to this community.. They have no right to see, what is in me and they"ll never will.. The only thing they have is my name and a picture which doesn't look like me and a false birth date.. My advise is to stay away from anything this cult is offering .

[think]

e jamaat card for a worshipper of Allah. does it make sense? Why does the clergy care how many times I attend waez?

[Bohra spring]

I have not heard as yet they are forcing people to give blood tests..but if you enrol in the program offcourse they have to do a blood test as part of the medical procedure. Depends where you are in the world but in the west there are good privacy guideline and they will not risk breach them. They know someone will report them.

I suggest those who have addiction issues go with an open mind and make use of the service ..if the wajebat I pay is being used to help someone receive treatment I am happy.

If you are asking people to stay away then I really hope you have an alternative that is better than Muffy's otherwise we should watch silently and clap! Let us use our minds..this is a very important issue and should be supported , but definetly not joked about or discourage. Victims of these abuses are very sensitive , I know as I have tried it myself to help someone close to us, and will find any reason not to do something about it.

In my society outside Bohraism there are penalties of rediculing community programs in manner such as interfereing with government issues affecting peoples health.

[hsnhussain]

I agree with Bohra spring.
Everyone should appreciate the initiative taken by the community to help people to come out and stay off of their addiction.

[Conscíous]

Why are they so concerned about others addiction, while they are addicts themselves ?? Like killing endangered animals for pleasure.. The only cure and consultation those addicts will receive is; lots of treats while they'll use there family as leverage.. And for the medicine,, they'll receive holy water and a round trip to India

[genesis]

This is a master class initiative that the kothar have deviced

Abdes well done and congrats and good luck in eradicating this terrible vice. Credit deserved.

Yours truly rebel at heart.

Indeed. If this initiative becomes succesful. who knows, the think-tank behind it will be invited officially by the govt. at the national level to form and head a National Panel For De-addiction .

[ghulam muhammed]

This is a master class initiative that the kothar have devised

It should be read as a "Master Stroke"............... No doubt there is nothing wrong in it and many bohras could benefit from it but as in the past, things look quite well in the beginning but over a passage of time the sinister designs are there for every right minded person to see, the dabba scheme is the recent example. There was mass propaganda that it is for the poor and free of cost but over a period of time it became evident that everyone including the poor had to pay for it. Hence it is too early to conclude as to the actual intentions behind this moharramat. BTW I was told that after the rehabilitation programme the abdes have to swear on Mola that in future they will never indulge in tobacco products.

[Al Zulfiqar]

BTW I was told that after the rehabilitation programme the abdes have to swear on Mola that in future they will never indulge in tobacco products.

going further, all those who have taken such solemn pledges in the name of mola will be closely monitored 24/7 and they will be held responsible, in case they went back to their bad habits, if mola leaves this mortal world to meet his maker.

it will be the oppressive burden of the sins of such incorrigible addicts which will cause the death of mola. naturally, the mansoos will not let them go unpunished and will do hafta vasuli from each of them of 5,53, 532 rs. the threat is clear. jab tak tum moharramat se dur rahoge, mola ki saanse chalegi.. woh gaye, tum bhi khalaas!

[Grayson]

I hope he "Cared" more for his sons and gave strict lessons on the "Haraam" things that they do rather then give lectures to the abdes on "Makru". The immediate thing which comes in mind is the liquor shops in their buildings and the rent income which they get from it. The Dai should know that getting associated with alcohol in any manner is totally "Haraam", he should also know that before lecturing on the evils of interest income he should first stop leasing out his properties to banks whose sole income is interest............ Needless to say that "Extortion" tops the list !!

Brother, these are some fantastic claims. Being a part of the "new guard" of liberal-minded orthodox Bohras I don't know how to react to such statements. Please, I need proof in order to correct my ignorance!

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to trap you. I want things like this to be exposed and the suckers nailed for their crimes! But I can't know without proof. If true, the Dai's family working on interest and dealing in alcohol NEEDS to be exposed. Indisputably.

[anajmi]

brother Grayson,

People normally ask for proof for things that they do not believe in. For example, have you ever asked for proof from the Dai about him talking to the hidden Imam? Of course not. That exact same logic applies to me too. I do not believe that the Dai talks to the Imam, I will ask for proof, but at the same time I believe that the prophet (saw) spoke to Jibrael (as) without any proof.

The reason for this is simply what makes sense to one might not make sense to the other and on top of that if we establish a baseline, then it becomes easier to figure out what must require proof that all can be convinced of.

In India pretty much all politicians are corrupt. We all know it. Can you or I prove it? And even if we can on the surface (you have to have some kind of proof to believe one way or another right?) it might not be enough to convince the courts or believing zealots.

Consider the crime shows on TV. A lot of times, we are made known of the culprit. Even the protagonists know of the culprit. But, they cannot prove it.

Earlier, I spoke about the baseline. If in the context of our religion, we consider the Quran to be our baseline, it becomes pretty easy for people like me to believe in the misdeeds of the Dai and his family. Provided ofcourse, you put in some effort to understand the message of the Quran. Then try to see if the Dai and his family are following the commandments of the Quran. Look at the life of the prophet (saw) and some of greatest sahabas and see if the Dai is following in his footsteps or not. This is pretty easy to see, once you establish a clear baseline.

[Grayson]

Salaams brother.
Unfortunately your example is applicable to pretty much all intangibles of faith; while I’m inclined to agree with you in an Islamic context, it can’t be denied that from a purely academic point of few, nuances of faith can’t be proven or disproven. Us remaining firm on different views, it’s unlikely either is to budge dramatically due to our different interpretation (that in all honesty, holds stronger to heart than logic). Even something as majestic as the Quran, can’t bring peace to the arrogance of men.

I argue for things to be displayed in such a way, that it makes sense universally.

2+2 will always equal 4, in the same likeness that outright wrongdoings and hypocrisy (as illustrated by brother GM’s statement above) if committed , pertain to being erroneous. If something is, it is. Isn’t, it isn’t. Prove it. Tangible facts need no baselines.

In India pretty much all politicians are corrupt. We all know it. Can you or I prove it? And even if we can on the surface (you have to have some kind of proof to believe one way or another right?) it might not be enough to convince the courts or believing zealots.

Consider the crime shows on TV. A lot of times, we are made known of the culprit. Even the protagonists know of the culprit. But, they cannot prove it.

And that’s exactly my point! How beneficial to this cause would it be if the wrongdoings ARE exposed? Talk is cheap when there’s no substance to back it up; I want that substance in order to eradicate doubt in opposition. Evidence speaks for its self. For this movement to really hold strong, truth must spearhead the attack.

Before attacking distorted articles of faith (which is a battle that’s never going to progress by blindly believing warring factions), expose the HUMANISTIC INDECENCY (let’s leave religion out of it) committed by perpetrators that show their true colors to those that “can’t see it”. Not that they can’t; as you said “we all know it”. When it’s upfront, in your face, unrelenting and undeniable I’d like to believe it gradually affects people’s psyches like I’ve felt it happen to me (and few others I’ve discuss these issues with).

The lives of the Prophet and his Sahaba are ones I personally try to use for inspiration too; but it’s undeniable how fall from the core most modern religions tend to have fallen. This is not an excuse for the kothar, but they can’t be blamed for playing the dirty game. Exposing them as the frauds they are (in such a way that any honest mind can deduce the cult-like nature of their machinations instead of giving a sugar-coated anthropological viewpoint) through evidence is the most effective way I see (gradual) change take place.

[Bohra spring]

Don't get me wrong I am not blindly praising Kothar but rather they have carefully picked the least controversial initiative. Initiative I mean attempt...time will prove what their intent commitment or success.

Like Many abuses in Bohra such as Child abuse, substance abuse, psychological abuse, etc they have have picked something that will present them as with the best intent.

Like PDB elements of human rights, OZM raising awareness of child abuse in the form of FGM, Kothar has picked on this. Kothar had tried tiffin , housing, Quran, after a series tries this one resonates well with majority as ideal philanthropy option.

My other point is if it is a valid form of abuse eradication we can transform it for benefit regardless who came up with it.

[anajmi]

Talk is cheap when there’s no substance to back it up; I want that substance in order to eradicate doubt in opposition. Evidence speaks for its self.

Actually, there is plenty of substance for those with eyes to see. You see the opulent lifestype of the kothar, the Dai and his family. You see the humiliation of the ordinary bohras pretty much everywhere. You see humans being made to bow down before another human. If this evidence doesn't speak for itself, then nothing will!!

but they can’t be blamed for playing the dirty game.

Which makes them no more than any other failing human being. This should be evidence in itself.

[anajmi]

Here is a simple piece of evidence that the bohras are too dumb to see even though it is right in front of them.

This is what the bohra misaq says

The Dai shall raise among you or degrade among you persons as he likes. He shall gift to and shall deprive persons as he pleases. The Dai shall reward persons and shall punish them in his discretion. The Dai shall smile upon or shall break his wrath on whomsoever he thinks fit. You shall be pleased in that which Dai is pleased....Say yes.


This is what the Quran says

3:26 SAY: "O God, Lord of all dominion! Thou grantest dominion unto whom Thou willest, and takest away dominion from whom Thou willest; and Thou exaltest whom Thou willest, and abasest whom Thou willest. In Thy hand is all good. Verily, Thou hast the power to will anything.

The Dai has elevated himself to the position of God. Ofcourse only those who were to ponder on 3:26 might be able to see this evidence. Those drinking the kothari kool-aid won't see it.

[ghulam muhammed]

Brother, these are some fantastic claims. Being a part of the "new guard" of liberal-minded orthodox Bohras I don't know how to react to such statements. Please, I need proof in order to correct my ignorance!

bro Grayson,

This forum is filled with tonnes of proof if you slowly read articles of the past couple of years. However I understand that as you are new to the forum you have not been able to read many such articles. FYI I will point out below a few examples which should be proof enough :-

1) The father-in-law of Mansoos, Late Yusuf najmuddin and late Mukasir Salehbhai Safiuddin were the previous owners of Hotel Ambassador situated at Churchgate, Mumbai, it is a 5 star hotel having a full fledged bar.
2) There are a few liquor shops situated in Glamour bldg., Arthur Bunder Road, Colaba, Mumbai and the said building belongs to Kothar (Dawat). They have been enjoying the rent income since decades.
3) There are a few kothar properties across India including Surat which have been leased out to banks, one such property in Surat is leased out to Bank of Baroda.

The above issues have been exhaustively discussed many times on the forum under various threads.

[Grayson]

Bro anajmi,

Yes, there's a lot of substance to see. The issue is the people don't see it. Brainwashed. Blind. Call them what you will. Ostentatiousness like this has become the norm; whether it be through unflinching conviction, or resigned acceptance. Which is why, at this point, we can't attempt to reform (what has become) faith without people running away. We could however expose the game by pointing injustice that's perceived against human nature.

The subservient (and unislamic) injustices such as prostrating before a human being and looting of communal wealth will not affect the afflicted. You're right, it's dumb that we're in such a situation that even the Quran can't save us. Break the monopoly, show flaws in the system.

Example: Young teenage saheb receiving hefty salaam from older men (and some cases women) has (disgustingly) become the norm. Arguing against this is as progressive as beating one's head against the wall. Injustice isn't perceived.

On the other hand, the Aqmar bhaisaheb incident in which he openly insulted someone for not paying the amount he demanded. That's out of norm; retaliation occurred against human injustice. No snowball effect to suggest giving money was religiously wrong (how infuriating); but the people still lashed out when they were personally wronged (atleast a bit of progress).

I would love to appeal to religion, but I don't see that happening until people themselves start questioning the going-ons around them and get to the point and attempt to independently seek truth themselves. The accumulative exposure to such events could ignite that process.

Society and culture, exposed and addressed, will bring progress to religion too.

[Grayson]

Brother GM,

I will inshallah look further into the forum to find more definitive evidence later of the topics you mentioned, but at the moment I'll give a brief reflection of what I know (and don't know) of those incidents.

1) They owned the hotel. That's great; was there alcohol served while they owned it? Is there a deed, or some sort of document proving ownership particularly while alcohol was being served. (I also recall reading about women and prostitution; but again. I'm not going to believe anything I read without reliability).
2) Proof of ownership? If true, it's really scandalous. How's an everyday Bohra supposed to challenge the kothar over this occurrence without proof?
3) Again, proof that Daawat owns these properties.

Perhaps the proofs in themselves are out there and publicly accessible; perhaps it's dependent on reliable inside sources. Perhaps you yourself are the source.

Excuse me if I'm being unkind, I do not question your honor brother. I just really want to believe you and expose things for what it is. The reliability doesn't depend on your character (which I have utmost respect for on this forum); it depends on what's concrete to see. If indeed, such matters rest on the dependence of individual accounts, it puts people like me in a position in which we have no swagger behind our arguments against Kothar inc.

[anajmi]

You're right, it's dumb that we're in such a situation that even the Quran can't save us. Break the monopoly, show flaws in the system.

Being in a situation, willingly I might add, where even the Quran can't save you is a pitiful situation to be in. Maybe you don't deserve to be saved.

[Grayson]

You're right, it's dumb that we're in such a situation that even the Quran can't save us. Break the monopoly, show flaws in the system.

Being in a situation, willingly I might add, where even the Quran can't save you is a pitiful situation to be in. Maybe you don't deserve to be saved.

I don't consider it willing when you can't comprehend it. I've felt personal progress; would like to share that others. Without telling them they're hopeless. Or thinking it myself.

[anajmi]

I don't consider it willing when you can't comprehend it.

Well, then you have to smarten up. Put in some effort. Do not take comfort in your dumbness. It won't be accepted as an excuse on the day of judgment.

[Grayson]

You're right, it's dumb that we're in such a situation that even the Quran can't save us. Break the monopoly, show flaws in the system.

Maybe it is time for you to smarten up instead of taking comfort in your dumbness.

On the contrary, I'm glad I have (to an extent) and seek to further. But never with the thought of giving up on others.