A message to all my fellow bohris

[wise_guy]

I would like to address all bohris, who are loyal followers of Sydena Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) and who follow or post their comments on this forum. First of all, stop cursing and abusing the progressive bohras on this forum. Cursing and abusing is not a sign of good character and never achieves the said purpose (Maula has in many bayans said that no mumin should ever utter a bad word against anyone). There have been many examples in past (narrated in bayans).

For eg. The riwayat of a Yahoodi lady who use to throw garbage on Rasullullah (SAW) everyday. Once when there was no garbage thrown, Rasullulah (SAW) asked about it and was informed that the lady was not well. What did Rasullullah (SAW) do next ? Did he say that he was happy that the lady has got her punishment and she deserved it and moved on. He went to the lady's house himself to inquire about her illness. When the lady got to know his true character, she embraced Islam. The moral of this riwayat is that hearts are to be won by character and not by cursing or forcing someone.

I have seen many abdes showing their dislike and disrepect for Mazoon Maula. This means, they are breaking their ahad because, according to ahad of misaaq, we have to obey and respect Mazoon-e-dawat.

No one likes to go against any one just for the sake of it. The situation in dawat today is that, everything is weighed with money. If you have money, you are welcome. If you pay more, you get front saf in namaz etc. Why is money required to be follow a religion and why is spending money in dawat the main criteria to be spiritual? Is this is what was taught by Rasullluah (SAW). Crores of rupees are swindled due to unaccountibility, even at jamat levels. Today, many Bohras are frustrated with the amount of money they have to pay and the politics and corruption at play everywhere in jamat, kothar etc. Haven't your watched the movie, 'OMG' Oh My God?

This forum is meant for a healthy debate. There is no need to curse or abuse someone. I also request the progressive bohras not to curse, abuse or make fun of Syedna Mohammed Burhannudin (TUS) or comment anything about his passing away. It really is in bad taste.

[bohra_manus]

Well Said Mr. Wise Guy!!!
This applies to all, Abdes, PDBs & non bohris who choose to give out their opinions on bohra issues.

[Bohra spring]

Wise guy apologies for commenting on SMB mortality..but this is reality. This comments are not to insult him as a person but rather in regards to his position as a Diai. I also feel in his state he does not care if we stopped calling him a Diai, these would be good old memories and he would rather be resting in peace and looking at his legacy and being faithful to his deep faith, whether we agree or disagree of his type of faith.

As a person due to his natural state of very old stage he is incapable of providing active leadership or administration of the religion as defined by the role of a diai, he is now more a ceremonial leader.

The reason I say this he is not solving issues, giving instructions, etc. he is not running the affairs .
Technically for right or wrong reasons Muffy is in charge however for his own motives and lack of self confidence he is using the emotional attachment of the masses to establish his relevance by parading his predecessors image .

The reason to discuss this without emotion is there is a change in era on the horizon , an old generation will switch to new. The resistance luck could turn to the better and the corrupt structure crumble or it could swing the other way and we get a more fanatic crowd that takes us further into deeper oppression . This new darker than dark days we face may require a complete new rethink of the resistance approach. Look at North Korea..the new guy is more reckless than his father.

What you have highlighted and confirms my concern the new leadership on both sides has not prepared the masses should the day come in the future.

[Qutbi-Hero]

I think things will get darker. I just cannot see things getting better. In a way I feel this is supposed to be the way, after all we are heading towards quyamat and shaytans final victory.

[Taqdeer]

Well said! in Eastern Africa we are already there, daily is a new Qayamat

[Qutbi-Hero]

Well said! in Eastern Africa we are already there, daily is a new Qayamat

What kind of things are happening in East Africa?

[Taqdeer]

Salaams to all,

Well we have a East African HH Dr. Sayedna Hussein Hebatullah, who has declared himself a divine, in each and every think what you want to do you have to get permission from his office, I am afraid in near future we will have to take permission for going to the toilet to pee,

Well here you are not allowed inside the mosque if you don't have E-jamaat card/No. & Feta, you can be insulted like you have abused higher authority if there is no feta on your head

[Bohra spring]

Salaams to all,

Well we have a East African HH Dr. Sayedna Hussein Hebatullah, who has declared himself a divine, in each and every think what you want to do you have to get permission from his office, I am afraid in near future we will have to take permission for going to the toilet to pee,

Well here you are not allowed inside the mosque if you don't have E-jamaat card/No. & Feta, you can be insulted like you have abused higher authority if there is no feta on your head

What a pity.... I can understand your situation , I used to be in Kenya. But East African Bohras are squarely to blame for their situation . How can you seat back and watch and only complain.

Over and over time reformists rose to stand up but you stood back and watched cowardly without supporting the few. The 70s was the Mombasa reformists, Anjarwallas, Mamujees who you went and recited lanat on them, 80s was Syedi Mazoom Saheb and you went sabotaged his ideas and returned to Misaq when he was misquoted , 90s onwards the Yusuf Najmudin family took over and you were in droves attenting sermons to show support. You are reaping what you sowed.

Most reformists left, changed faith or some even turned back to abde. I left and am now fighting to protect my new homeland. Kila mtu a beba mzigo wake!

Well what are you doing about it 2013 ...it is your problem and you have to sort it out...no reformist swat team will flyin to do your job of cleaning the filth, you have to form your own revolt.

[Taqdeer]

That's the biggest problem here, as you know one man can not stand a army... but as said in Kiswahili (Kila Mbwa ana siku yake)

[Bohra spring]

Taqdeer Bhai , you was meant for the general public and not blaming you personally..pole sana

But why do East African fear the kothar...EA is not India ....there are no goondas to fear...rise and be recalcitrants .

Say no ....you have such a large supportive Muslim and ithan Asheri community , kothar don't stand a chance to excommunicate the hundreds and thousands if you revolt.

Hawa umbwa si umbwa , ni fisi, wataka teke. Translated as these are Not dogs but hyenas that need a kick !

[Al Zulfiqar]

kothar don't stand a chance to excommunicate the hundreds and thousands if you revolt.....

if wishes were horses, even fools would ride...!!

[humanbeing]

Kothar can actually afford to excommunicate 100s and 1000s, Kothar at this point is covered by rich minorities of abdes , they have their bills of luxury paid manifolds.

Worst case scenario, even if entire bohra community revolts against kotharies, they have made enough moolah to go in to seclusion and rise again at appropriate time and place.

Wont be surprised, if these kotharis will be seen settled roaming around clean shaven leading a happy anonymous life.

[Bohra spring]

Kothar can actually afford to excommunicate 100s and 1000s, Kothar at this point is covered by rich minorities of abdes , they have their bills of luxury paid manifolds.

Worst case scenario, even if entire bohra community revolts against kotharies, they have made enough moolah to go in to seclusion and rise again at appropriate time and place.

Wont be surprised, if these kotharis will be seen settled roaming around clean shaven leading a happy anonymous life.

If they excommunicate the masses or majority...that will be a positive because it can be seen as the orthodoxy is self segregating it self...the masses can then choose their new reformed leadership...a New Diai system.

And anyway after the 46th there is questions to was the rightful Diai...we can not go back in time to correct the wrongs but can ensure the future is better.

Do we really need a diai in the current style or is it a tradition that we have not thought for an alternative ?

If we for discussion assume the Nass on Mansoos was incorrectly done or the 52nd is mentally incapable of now intervening, what does the knowledge base instruct? If we had to select or identify a new 53rd what is process ?

Accepting what we have got is not a good response !

[Mkenya]

Those of us, East Africans, who left for other lands can only view what is happening
back in the old countries with remorse and pity. That is easy to do for us but not
for the Bohras who live there. For us in the safe havens of foreign lands, we can come
up with umpteen ideas as to what Bohras there should do. I have been a frequent visitor
to Mombasa, my birthplace in Kenya and have observed progressively enforced tightening
of the vice by Sheikh Husainbhai Hebatullah and his compatriots. A subterranean seige mentality
is in place there. Bohras are forever complaining yet they are helpless. "Ukianza matata ujuwe
uta bakia wewe peke tu". (Transalation: If you instigate any revolt, you must know that you would
be the only one left.") When Yusuf Najmudin was there he had fired up such rage in among the
Bohras that they were pronouncing 'laanat' to well respected families. Among them were the same people
who were given bursaries to study overseas. I remember some fanatics in Tanga, Tanzania who went
to the Kabrastan and chiseled out names of departed souls from the headstones. How heinous.
My generation, I am 73, has seen things as it they were in from early '50s to late '60s and I must
say we have seen enough. Today the powers that be are seeing the fruits of their deeds in reality.
They had a long time ago imported Mullahs and Sheikhs who were subservient and taught the younger
generation the benefits of staying under HH's umbrella. The picture that they have grown up with is
just that. They have tunnel vision; every majlis, daris, waaz, etc. they attend is with the full fervour of
singing praise of HH and how they are blessed to be Bohras. It is always a pity to see some friends of mine
who look aged and resigned. Kuomi pressure has done this to them.

[think]

sad real sad how corrupt this kothar can be and how exploitive are the jamaat goondas

[Mkenya]

Pardon my omission but I had a senior moment. When inquiring a learned
friend of mine quoted to me the following Sher by Shamim Jaipuri.

"ZINDAGI APNI KASHO KASH MEIN JIYE JAATE HEIN
JEE NAHI CHAHATA JINEKO, MAGAR JIYE JAATE HEIN'.

That sums up the futility that they and thousands of others face
daily.

[Al Zulfiqar]

brother mkenya,

i genuinely feel your pain and despondency at the state of affairs in east africa, esp kenya.

believe me, its the same scenario all over the world. whether india, pakistan or east africa, its all the same. all those of us who have migrated to the west, whenever we go back home, we lament at the complete degeneration of our community. i am aghast when i see all my childhood friends with whom i spent many moments of gay abandon and much merriment, all clean shaven, educated and professional, now with long, unkempt and shabby junglee beards, wearing topi's at work, rushing to attend every majlis and darees etc. the transformation in their appearances, behaviour and thinking is unbelievable. in fact its i who now feel like a complete alien in their midst.

its as if the entire community is regressed. they display a surprising amount of fanaticism and in a most unexpected degree, a great deal of enthusiasm for the almost daily communal activities. their entire lives revolve around the masjid and community. their wives even more so. i have great difficulty adjusting to this, completely, and to my mind unfathomable, perversion in their behaviour. mentally i exist with them as my friends when we were in our 20's, but whereas i have moved on, they are not only stuck in their time warp, but actually regressed. although none of them dare comment on my clean shaven and totally un-abde life-style, the look in their eyes conveys many mixed feelings of envy, sadness and pain, resentment, and helplessness. many of the wildest guys, well-known for their mischief and practical jokery, are today staid and portly sheikhs, wallowing in self-importance and inflated with pride. strutting about like peacocks in their own little tiny world. yes, they have come into money, but nary a hint of charity or service to society and mankind crosses their lips.

its saddens me, it depresses me to see where our community is heading. where only 5-6 decades ago there existed good shayars, writers in urdu and chaste gujrati in our midst, men of learning and arts, philantropists, philatelists, collectors of antiques and rare books, athletes and eminent sportsmen and women, today, its all gone. we have become boors, uncouth and vulgar displayers of our wealth and bogus titles. we have become superficial, unfeeling and insensitive to others, esp the poor and deprived amongst us. in fact, we hate the poor, and where previously no class system existed, today the bohras under the leadership of the last 2 syednas, have got divided into several strata. the qasre aali, baite zainy, the amils, followed by (illiterate) sheikhs, mullas and then the lowest class of ordinary abdes.

there is no point in mourning the good days now gone. move on. my good friends are still as warm and hospitable with me, but i feel their hidden fear at associating with me, an obvious non-compliant rebel who somehow belittles them by not conforming with their behaviour and thoughts.

it hurts, but i now keep my distance, more out of concern at not rocking their boat, than any apprehensions for myself.

[Smart]

I would like to address all bohris, who are loyal followers of Sydena Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) and who follow or post their comments on this forum. First of all, stop cursing and abusing the progressive bohras on this forum. Cursing and abusing is not a sign of good character and never achieves the said purpose (Maula has in many bayans said that no mumin should ever utter a bad word against anyone). There have been many examples in past (narrated in bayans).

This forum is meant for a healthy debate. There is no need to curse or abuse someone. I also request the progressive bohras not to curse, abuse or make fun of Syedna Mohammed Burhannudin (TUS) or comment anything about his passing away. It really is in bad taste.

Dear Wise Guy,
Hear Hear, Loyal or not, Dawoodi Bohras have learnt cursing and abusing from their Dais. Look how Insafbhai is called Saanp, How Sk. Ahmedali was called Ahmaq, how the the first three Qalifahs are called maloon. What character and taste are you talking about? Is the Syedna and his Shahzadaas and his Aamils, not mumin?

A severe case of Cognitive Dissonance is clearly discerned from your post. Some introspection would do a world of good.

[Bohra spring]

Az stated
its saddens me, it depresses me to see where our community is heading. where only 5-6 decades ago there existed good shayars, writers in urdu and chaste gujrati in our midst, men of learning and arts, philantropists, philatelists, collectors of antiques and rare books, athletes and eminent sportsmen and women, today, its all gone. we have become boors, uncouth and vulgar displayers of our wealth and bogus titles. we have become superficial, unfeeling and insensitive to others, esp the poor and deprived amongst us. in fact, we hate the poor, and where previously no class system existed, today the bohras under the leadership of the last 2 syednas, have got divided into several strata. the qasre aali, baite zainy, the amils, followed by (illiterate) sheikhs, mullas and then the lowest class of ordinary abdes.

Is it now gone or impossible to restore the glory of the past...?, have we lost the ability to excel in other human ability other than religious orthodoxy ? How can we deemphasise religion and create a balanced secular society where Dawoodi Bohra is more than a religious community ? Where a Mullah is not more than a successful entrepreneur , artist or professional?

It really disturbs me that STS strategy intentionally or not systematically destroyed the other Bohra potential and turned us into narrow thinking , puppets who dress the same , look the same and live making hand made roti, women stitching at home, kids running around in kurta, spending days listening to bayans, living in closed colonies as if it is 17 th century village life in Surat ?

[Awakened woman]

When discussing all these new farmans and rules, some argue that its because Moula wants you to be elevated to a higher level and save you from all the vices of the world. Isnt it like saying, dont breathe coz the air is impure? or dont learn swimming coz u might drown? And if you are constantly doing the 'basics' wrong, what elevation are we talking about.

[Deerseye]

Hi friends, lets keep the fire of hope burning bright, reform will happen, and that too ,very soon. It took the determination of one Gandhi to obtain swaraj. Every second Ayat of the Quran proclaims that TRUTH will win, Bro MKenya don't be depressed, All will be well. Just lets keep showing each other the right path.

[Mkenya]

My sincere thanks to all who responded to my posting with
encouraging words of support. The futility reflects so clearly. But we have
to keep up the 'tableeg' of making our voices heard. Of course it makes a
difference and we should not let any event deter or demoralize us.

The Bohra world today is in a 'holding pattern'; like a plane circling
an airport. All efforts are being made by Kothar to present a united front
but people know there are strong undercurrents within.

I am digressing but the following two events happened in US and Canada
which gave the public some hint as to what to expect. But no such luck
for us.
In 1988 Republican Convention George H.W.Bush said:
"Read my lips" but went ahead and raised taxes.
In 1970 Quebec Crisis Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau said:
"Just watch me" and brought in the Army to quell unrest.

It is very sad to note that 52nd Dai Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb has
had a stroke and for all intent and purpose is out of commission. It is
no doubt a humbling time; the Dai is 102 years old. The powers behind
the Gaadi are busy initiating diversionary activities. One such case is the
purjosh preparation of The Dai's 50th 'Takhtanashini' throughout the world.

Please forgive my impertinence but I think there will be no action until
after the demise of the Dai. That is when the well-oiled wheels of Kothar will start
to turn and like practiced choreography every player in Kothar will
perform his role and the rest will just echo whatever they will be asked to do.
Taking further liberty with my guesswork I venture to say that Bohras would be so
emotionally charged that first, grief will take the centre-stage and second,
after a brief respectable interval massive festivities of the coronation of the new
Dai will take place. It will be very interesting to witness how events would unfold
from thereon. The festivities would be an ideal backdrop to whatever new developments
would take place. Bohras would be at their most vulnerable time and would be
receptive to whatever they are told.

It would be a trying period for us in the Reform movement. We should not hold
our breath for any faction to rear its head e.g. Qutbi. I remember the following taunt
from the Takht during Waaz in my earlier days: "Dushmano chahe te kare pun Daawat
nu safinu takayamat tak jari reshe".

[seeker110]

Some day soon two wealthy persons will meet their demise. Upon the death of Warren Buffet, his children and all his millions of beneficiary will enjoy a day of sorrow.

Someday soon 52nd will meet his demise. Upon his death his children will become each others enemy, they will fight and hold grudge for the rest of their lives and also their children. The whole community will suffer because of one man's evil deeds.

[londonwala]

Mkenya and Al Zulfiqar give well written accounts from their personal experience, which many of us can relate to, not just those who have emigrated. I know many bohras, both men and women, who were pretty rebellious in their young days, openly sceptical of many practices in the dawat, who would speak out against such practices in our private groups. Now several of them are sheikhs and mullas, or are married to sheikhs and mullas, and have greatly changed.

Yes, all people change as they get older, and it is good if people lose bad habits and practices that they may have had when younger. However, it is sad to see people who are educated and intelligent in worldly matters develop a cult-like, narrowminded mindset. Conversations are on limited topics and will always include glorification of the Dai. Men will comment sarcastically about other men who are clean shaven or trim their beards. These men are often very ignorant in deeni matters. Even their knowledge of dawat ni zaban is often very limited, they are very poor at speaking it, they do not understand much of what is said in majlis, and some cannot read or write it at all. They try to impress others by talking about their friendships with the royal family. Some of them are of modest income but will try to talk as if they are rich, because this impresses others, and they try to mix with rich bohras.

Women will comment about and criticise other women who do not wear rida. Yet these very same women did not wear rida in their younger days because of how awkward they would feel and because it gave the wrong impression of them to others. But now they are desperate that other women become like them.

Al Zulfiqar writes that these people look at others with “mixed feelings of envy, sadness and pain, resentment, and helplessness”. How true. Many are quite regretful of how they have become what they have, and wish that they had taken a different course in life.