Syedna's Mother

[Sikander]

beta Badrijanab, you are again wrong, I am not sure what your book says but according to ISLAM, ALLAH created three forms and those are jin,humans and angels.

people thinks those bhoot, actually are jin, momeen or mushriq none will go to heaven until day of judgment.

[Bohra spring]

Mumineen rooh goes into paradise, non-mumineen rooh (soul) due to absence of 'Misaaq for Imam' (Ulul amr as per Quran) or their wrong deeds remains here in this world they are referred as "bhoot" / "daakan" .

BJ do you really believe this fairy tale

So acording to you 8billion bhoots are floating around ?

! million abdes are in jannat ! no need for judgment or end of the world...how boring they do not need to do good deeds or live in suspense

[badrijanab]

Bohra Spring,

Complaint this to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who said, all (72) sects of Isam will burn in Hell and only one sect (Bohras as per aayat# 2:184) will go into Paradise.

[hunni]

Bohra Spring,

Complaint this to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who said, all (72) sects of Isam will burn in Hell and only one sect (Bohras as per aayat# 2:184) will go into Paradise.

Dear BJ,

I have a small opposition to your view in this regard ? If only bohras are to go into Jannat, then what others will do ?
My understanding of Islam is a bit different from you. It is a way of life for all humanity. Rasul-ullah (PBUH) was not a bohra ... he was a muslim/momin ... so who so ever follows His path may enter paradise ... correct me if I am wrong ?

Also for instance, imagine if a person of non muslim faith, seeks in search of truth and finds Islam. He will then again have 72 sects to choose ? He only came to Islam because of the teachings of Quran. Will Allah then not acknowledge him ? Will he die and not enter paradise.

Why are we busy in creating sects in our beautiful religion. We should respect all our brothers. Things are bound to be different here and there ... dosent matter much ...

May Allah guide us all.

[SBM]

Hunni
Welcome to forum
But do not keep your hopes high, as per BJ only PRISTINE BOHRAS will go to Jannat, and the current Bohras do not qualify as PRISTINE, only the followers of Badrijanab are PRISTINE BOHRAS so Jannat is going to be very sparsely populated and Jahannam will be overpopulated as their may be only fewer than 100 PRISTINE BOHRAS will occupy the Janaat and that is why there are only 72 Hoors

[SBM]

Her name is not "Ratan I" but "Chaman aai". Because she murdered the rightful 46th Dai al Mutlaq, punishment was levied on her.

Mumineen rooh goes into paradise, non-mumineen rooh (soul) due to absence of 'Misaaq for Imam' (Ulul amr as per Quran) or their wrong deeds remains here in this world they are referred as "bhoot" / "daakan" - Laeena Chaman aai is later and is spotted by many in graveyard of Surat.

BJ
What kind of hallucinating drugs are you on?. Please send an ARZI to Aqa Moula for PHOOK NU PAANI for your shifa. We need another Pristine Bohra who needs our dua for SHIFA KULLI

[badrijanab]

Aisa he SBM babu, you should lodge complaint with Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who dictated all (72) sects of Islam will end up in hell! Only one sect will land in paradise!

R u not honest enough to accept above tradition of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.?

[Grayson]

But i agree to what Br. AZ is talking about as in one of the post by Porus he has mentioned in a very long essay about whole issue, I tried to search but was not able to, might be Porus himself can post that again. IT a very good read and answers a lot of questions on how and when this thing went out of hand.

I was unable to search too. From the bits I read that were uploaded in brother Ghulam Mohammed's topic (Archives) I didn't come across any part that addressed controversy revolving around Syedna's mother. If someone could bring out that information it would be invaluable. Whether I believe in it or not doesn't matter (I'll argue further in regards to certain points I don't agree with if there are any), cause as a document it seems legitimate enough to stand well on it's own.

[hunni]

Aisa he SBM babu, you should lodge complaint with Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who dictated all (72) sects of Islam will end up in hell! Only one sect will land in paradise!

R u not honest enough to accept above tradition of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.?

If all 72 sects of ISLAM would endup in hell ... then there remains no one to qualify . The sect which Allah talks about is not Sunni's, shia's, bohras etc, but only the true believers.

[Grayson]

Dai not mentioning regarding his mother for lack of memories is rather a weak argument. There is a question mark for why so ? AZ claims to have a long explanation regarding skeletons from kothar.

Except, during that raw age he would have a lack of memory. I'm not asserting that conspiracies surrounding her are totally false; I'm just reminding others that there was very insignificant time (max 6 years) spent between mother and son.

Whatever be reason, if supported with credible proof, it can be a big factor in exposing evil deeds from history of kothar. So it may become relevant to the topic of reform in bohra community.

Agreed it exposes, but I'm not exactly sure how it becomes relevant to the topic of reform. Sometimes I get a little confused if we want to remove the Dai or reform the administration? Valid or not, these points attack the former ideal rather than latter.
I personally believe progress should seek to take place the other way around (pressure to reform administration and unscrupulous practices; eventually challenge misconceptions of faith). Could you please clarify my misunderstanding?

catfights are turning away more people as compared to converting visitors to rational thinkers.

Agreed once more.

[anajmi]

Complaint this to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who said, all (72) sects of Isam will burn in Hell and only one sect (Bohras as per aayat# 2:184) will go into Paradise.

2:184 [fasting] during a certain number of days. But whoever of you is ill, or on a journey, [shall fast instead for the same] number of other days; and [in such cases] it is incumbent upon those who can afford it to make sacrifice by feeding a needy person. And whoever does more good than he is bound to do does good unto himself thereby; for to fast is to do good unto yourselves - if you but knew it.

If you look closely, bohras are not mentioned in this ayah. So badrijanab is lying as he normally does. If this ayah were the only criterion for going into Paradise, then the kotharis, who according to badrijanab are going to hell, will actually go to heaven and so will the Dawoodi Bohra Dai, which would in a convoluted way, justify everything that he is doing, and so will the Alavi Bohras who also follow the hijri calendar, and so will many other shia sects who follow the calendar.

badrijanab just got busted one more time.

[humanbeing]

Agreed it exposes, but I'm not exactly sure how it becomes relevant to the topic of reform. Sometimes I get a little confused if we want to remove the Dai or reform the administration? Valid or not, these points attack the former ideal rather than latter.
I personally believe progress should seek to take place the other way around (pressure to reform administration and unscrupulous practices; eventually challenge misconceptions of faith). Could you please clarify my misunderstanding ?

Seat / Office of Dai shall be separated from Idea of Lineage leadership. As Far as I understand, Bohra philosophy says that a Dai shall be a learned man of ethics, integrity and knowledge chosen by Imam.

In my opinion, it has become an acceptable fact amongst orthodox as well as progressive bohras that the current Dai family is the only and only available candidates to occupy Dai-ship, regardless of their deeds or conduct.

Life of Dai is monitored by every abde very closely, he is a role model to million bohras. He is a public celebrity, considered “Masoom” and many such titles that absolves him of any error / sin . These qualities forms or strengthens the bohra’s faith in their Dai. The very foundation of being a Bohra. So exposing wrongdoings ( if any) shall be a matter of reform as equal as asking for accountability and transparency of funds and administration.

[Grayson]

Again, I agree with pretty much all of what you said. However, the practice doesn't match the words.

Mind you, I'm not talking of you specifically. But there's a lot of detractors that spew nothing but hate towards the current family (just as rabidly as the fanatic abde's that paramount him). Compounding the constant questioning of the legitimacy of his family, I fail to see how it doesn't become a schism in faith. Whether it be 46ers or 50ers or 52ers. If you don't believe in whoever's the head priest, considering it's central to this faith, you've deviated from it. Divisions in Christianity are for similar reasons.

I believe in what I do, because I believe in the chain of events. To be fair, I believe in that because my family does. I'm not ignorant to the faults of the priestly class and have no hesitance in questioning certain practices. But I do not feel compelled to question, "why are these people priests in the first place?" Cause even if there are aspects of what I consider corruption and incompetence, the chain of events have lead to the present ruling. So my grassroots arguments is focused on practices rather than "who rules" and "they're usurpers!" The need to focus more on Fatimid belief rather than human worship.

This issue with succession doesn't become accountability in regards to practical matters and false practices anymore. It's accountability (and doubt) in the chain of events, and essentially, orthodox Dawoodi Bohra faith. I believe if progressives want their movement to catch on among orthodox, focus on the secular matters before threatening widely-held beliefs.

[Al Zulfiqar]

this is the link to a thread i had started years ago. in it are answers to the question posed re: syedna's mother and why her urus is not celebrated and why a blanket of secrecy is maintained on her mention, whilst syedna's wife's urus is observed with considerable gusto and show of faith.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1795&hilit=why+no+u ... +mother%3F

there is hikmat in it for those with the common-sense to judge in light of the present. but those who will steadfastly refuse to believe, for them alas, there is no treatment for their rigid and closed minds.

i must clarify that the reformists as a group do not care much as to the internal family crimes of the clergy, but it does speak to the illegitimacy of their actions which displays a very wide variance with their preachings and only reinforces how corrupt and unfit they are to lead this community. it also disproves the lie propagated by the clergy that syedna taher saifuddin was the greatest dai who ever lived, with all the claptrap titles they attach to his name of being shamsudduatul mutleqeen blah blah blah etc.

[Grayson]

thank you for the link.

[Grayson]

A link to the document in question:

http://publishing.yudu.com/Freedom/Adct ... start%3D60

The thread suggested an effort of transcription (it's blurred and rather difficult to read). A few pages were found in GM's topic (Archives). Is there a link to the rest? I couldn't find it via search.

[seeker110]

First word spoken by an infant is the word "ma or ma ma". Even the children in the house of ill repute will not forget their mother. Mother provides undeserving love to the child, whereas dad gets deservingly. Now it is possible that since 52nd had many stepmom's and ayaas to take care of him, he completely forgot his mom that carried him, nourished him for however long she lived. According to you that bond of mother and child was not setin. This is where the evilness in the family takes root.

51st and 52nd both had many wives and children. They were looting the community not just themselves, alone. They would take little children to sit around them to get extra salams. These children did not excel in academics, but did so in haram and whatever bad it sprouts. Br. Grayson will need proof of that. All I see is wealth acquired by haram means. Mola Ali worked at an orchard as a laborer to support his family. Wore patched up clothes, ate dried bread with water. This family is complete opposite of Mola Ali's teaching.

Bush senior, when trapped in Iran Contra and his own affairs would say "there is no proof of any such thing. He never claimed with words I am innocent of all, just like Br Grayson, there is no proof so it did not happen.

[Grayson]

More relevant reading: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4602&p=58328&hilit=luqmani#p58328

I would appreciate if someone could give me further links in regards to the topic. It will likely take me a while to read and decipher the will, and any comments I have in regards to it. Well done effort in providing the documents.

[Grayson]

Seeker (of what?),

Look at our original argument. I still fail to see the relevance of your points. In regards to this topic. You wanna fan the flames? Go ahead. You've been doing that for quite a while. Br Grayson has no patience for conjecture and commentary that's irrelevant to his answer; hard facts and evidence (such as the Luqmani document), whether I believe in it or not, is solid contribution and worth investigating. Your hate and commentary over loot and eeeeeevil is for another topic. Perhaps we should make one for the "Let's hate on the Royal family and his braindead supporters"-club.

[seeker110]

Br grayson, from day one you have been pissing to extinguish this forest fire. I am not trying to facilitate topics for your contentment. You already have a mindset. These writings are for those to see beyond the magical kingdom of which you are part. Keep seeking for proof. If you find any, shove it under the rug.

[Grayson]

Likewise I have no desire in saying what you'd like to hear; which is why I'll continue to speak my mind as you do yours and opt to not shove my thinking under the rug. Thank God readers still have the freedom to read for themselves and make up their own minds. I will not hesitate to call out and analyze views that relate to this movement as I please if I don't agree with them; that doesn't make it right. Neither do yours.
As this is getting more personal than need be, I will not reply further the more you remain off-topic and unwilling to address what I said with valid thinking rather than parroting hate, assuming I think of myself as some sort of defender of this faith. I represent no one but myself (that too, through this pseudonym). Good day to you.

[SBM]

Bohra Spring,

Complaint this to Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. who said, all (72) sects of Isam will burn in Hell and only one sect (Bohras as per aayat# 2:184) will go into Paradise.

BJ
Syedna and Kotharis say that only people who hold the finger of Moula TUS will go to Jannat and you say only Pristine Bohra (your followers) will go to Jannat so that means you will be holding the finger of Syedna----just wonder

[Al Zulfiqar]

Syedna and Kotharis say that only people who hold the finger of Moula TUS will go to Jannat ... holding the finger of Syedna----just wonder

nowadays syedna is the one holding the fingers and arms and hands of others to move and be moved in order to live ta qayamat. so now who is leading whom to jannat?