Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
shapur
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:35 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#31

Unread post by shapur » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 am

Human being :

Very true ! Ramadan is a month of “Fi-Sabi-Lillah” but Kothar has made it “Fee-Sab-La” .. a sad PJ but sadly true !

Its decayed to a state where it seems like its ok if you forget to take the masalla but not the wallet.
One wont be surprised if some day in the near future options are thrown open to pay up kaffarat in the place of namaz - Just pay up 101/= per faraz per head and leave.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#32

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:47 pm

shapur wrote:One wont be surprised if some day in the near future options are thrown open to pay up kaffarat in the place of namaz - Just pay up 101/= per faraz per head and leave.
Kuwait Markaz has specific counter for Kaffarat payment. It is for those who have missed the Roza and wants to pay the kaffarat. According to me, whole idea of kaffarat gets defeated by this easy payment.

When a person misses the roza, he is advised to do kaffarat which is supposedly a process of serving or sponsoring food for poor. When a person get involved in this act, his soul and conscience gets cleansed, level of spirituality rises and sensitivity towards fellow brethren improves. But kothar is distancing abdes from any such acts by brainwashing them to channel the funds and efforts to their own plans. Latently wanting that abdes shall not find another means to salvation, spirituality and awareness.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#33

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:05 pm

humanbeing wrote:Kuwait Markaz has specific counter for Kaffarat payment
In this case, "kaffarat" rhymes well with "Kafirs" !! Kothar is already a "Kafan Chor" ! Seems Kothar has taken a cue from Ekta Kapoor who too is obsessed with "K" :mrgreen:

haider_21
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:13 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#34

Unread post by haider_21 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm

Pj but means a lot....

Chitragupt yamraj se bole -
mene ek aisa software banaya he ki jab bhi dharti pe kisi masum par ghor atyachar hoga to swarg me ek bomb fatega

Achank ek din lagatar hazoron bomb fatne lage.

Yamraj- ye kya ho raha he?

Chitrgupt- lagta hai
"WAZEBAAT KI BAITHAK SHURU HO GAYI HAI":

Bohra_Bhai
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#35

Unread post by Bohra_Bhai » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:36 am

It has been quite a nightmare for few, but I find something really amazing that is the control and supervision jamat has of sabil and wabejat.

If one hadnt paid any of the above two he is termed as a defaulter, and he cannot participate in lottery for seats.

He cannot go and pray, now it gives a feeling that to pray I need to buy tickets and since human is a social animal one cannot stay away from the club for a long time.

I just hope sanity returns and the people managing revoke this joke alloting seats through lottery.

zinger
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#36

Unread post by zinger » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:48 am

Bohra_Bhai wrote:It has been quite a nightmare for few, but I find something really amazing that is the control and supervision jamat has of sabil and wabejat.

If one hadnt paid any of the above two he is termed as a defaulter, and he cannot participate in lottery for seats.

He cannot go and pray, now it gives a feeling that to pray I need to buy tickets and since human is a social animal one cannot stay away from the club for a long time.

I just hope sanity returns and the people managing revoke this joke alloting seats through lottery.

very true words.

some too tried to resist to see how far they could take it, result, some of them now pray in the sehn, not in the main masjid.

did it make any difference to them? no. none whatsoever.

but yes, man being a social animal, cannot help but feel left out.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#37

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:01 am

Bohra_Bhai wrote: If one hadnt paid any of the above two he is termed as a defaulter, and he cannot participate in lottery for seats..
Bohra Bhai, welcome onboard.

If one would not pay sabil or wajebaat, he/she would be expelled from the community eventually. Boycotted from Masjid, Markaz, Darghas, Musafirkhana these are the material excommunications. Furthermore boycotted from social/business circles, separation from family these are emotional excommunications. Furthermore refusal to intercede your amals ( good or bad) with Imam-Prophet-Allah on day of judgement these are spiritual excommunications.

So basically one who does not pay sabeel and wajebaat are not only defaulter but they are non muslims / deprived / unfortunate at the mercy of wealth and kothar ! who do not believe in paid intercession ( shafaa’at and waseela)

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#38

Unread post by think » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:24 pm

being tired of high handed ness and holier than thou attitude of kothar, I have heard bohras in karachi, dubai, and u.s. hold their own iftar parties at home and enjoy the social and calm and pleasant atmosphere without having to listen to the goonda committee and be harrasses by the amil.
so, man being a social animal, neccissity is the mother of invention.
I know for a fact that in karachi bohras gather at karachi gymkhana for iftar, These groups of friends and relatives shun the jumatkhana iftar and cannot take the abuses of the goonda committee.
In some places in the states the 23rd is also held at peoples homes and people follow the sahifa and pray all night in their peace and quiet without having to listen to the same old tune.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#39

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:09 pm

wise_guy wrote:why would anyone even give ziyafat to Muder BS... what's his stature in the Corporation (Kothar Inc.) and 31 ziyafats for him
Muder holds a very important post in Kothar................ he is the 'saadubhai' of Mansoos, his wife and Mansoos' wife are sisters. Due to his close connections with the Dai's family he has managed to get a PLUM and most lucrative posting for his 2 sons. His son Kinana is the amil of Dubai and his other son is the amil of Sharjah. Need I say more !!!

Yousuf.ali
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:00 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#40

Unread post by Yousuf.ali » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:04 am

I think we dubai guys are lucky..myself didnt paid sabil n vajebaat frm last 2 years due to financial problems..i could not do polling for masallah space Online (ITS FREE if you have paid sabeel which can be aed 252 annualy) still i got space in masjid. Just go the counter registr your name n ITS no. and you get a pass for full month) no questions asked and its so easy. Nizaam is just too good.

Bohra_Bhai
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#41

Unread post by Bohra_Bhai » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:40 am

The amount for wajebaat would certainly make many in financial trouble. As far as my knowledge wajebaat/zakat has nothing to do with the salary as per the Islamic law, but in our case it is totally linked with the salary.
And my question is why sabil is compulsory, if one doesn't pay he shouldn't be invited to the jamans but one shouldnt be barred from praying inside the mosque.
And the concept of lottery for praying space is totally uncalled for and un-Islamic.
Long ago the concept of je wella te pehla was much better.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#42

Unread post by wise_guy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:59 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
wise_guy wrote:why would anyone even give ziyafat to Muder BS... what's his stature in the Corporation (Kothar Inc.) and 31 ziyafats for him
Muder holds a very important post in Kothar................ he is the 'saadubhai' of Mansoos, his wife and Mansoos' wife are sisters. Due to his close connections with the Dai's family he has managed to get a PLUM and most lucrative posting for his 2 sons. His son Kinana is the amil of Dubai and his other son is the amil of Sharjah. Need I say more !!!
You already said more... First line was enough :cry:

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#43

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:28 pm

Bohra_Bhai wrote: As far as my knowledge wajebaat/zakat has nothing to do with the salary as per the Islamic law, but in our case it is totally linked with the salary.
Zakat shall be minimum of 2.5% of your gross income. Regardless of salary or business.
Bohra_Bhai wrote: And my question is why sabil is compulsory, if one doesn't pay he shouldn't be invited to the jamans but one shouldnt be barred from praying inside the mosque.
Partially agree with you. There is nothing wrong in sabeel compulsion, provided local jamat has accountability and transparency to their operations.
Bohra_Bhai wrote: And the concept of lottery for praying space is totally uncalled for and un-Islamic.
Long ago the concept of je wella te pehla was much better.
Totally agree with you ! specially “Je Welaa Te Pehla” concept !

canadian
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#44

Unread post by canadian » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:30 pm

Bhai Humanbeing:

I believe zakat is 2.5% of net worth at the end of each year and not 2.5% of gross income. At least, that's how I have been paying all these years.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#45

Unread post by wise_guy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:40 pm

canadian wrote:Bhai Humanbeing:

I believe zakat is 2.5% of net worth at the end of each year and not 2.5% of gross income. At least, that's how I have been paying all these years.
2.5 % zakat is only waajib if you have savings left after all your expenses throughout the year. Wajebat is made up of many components which includes nazrul makam, najwa etc. So they take huge amounts of najwa and non zakat items in wajebat thereby inflating the wajebat to huge amounts.

Bohra_Bhai
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#46

Unread post by Bohra_Bhai » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:52 am

since wajebat includes, nazrul makam, najwa etc so while paying wajebat should also pay the money we normally keep aside (in a box) for nazrul makam.
I mean suppose i am to 500 for wajebaat and i have 400 set aside in my nazrul makaam box tht means i need to add only 100 more.

hasim
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:32 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#47

Unread post by hasim » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 am

Dabba scheme which was propogated as "muffadal maula is feeding momineens -a free scheme" is charged heavily ......at nagpur in first year it was for free..2nd year some 500 and now some 1000-1200 rs...see the technique they have followed to fool the abdes....i agree that contibuting is good gesture but voluntary not forcefully were its decided by will of mulla saheb...its also very interesting to see that they provide with a receipt which shows voluntary contribution but ask a common bohra is he or she contribute voluntary..no a big no.....when people beg infront of mulla saheb to charge them less they are insulted and gives example of bill they pay when they eat in hotels...how come they known that a poor bohra eats at hotel or else..and who has given them right to peep into personal life....look at the lavish life...lokk at the costly phones nowdays they are using...yes of course they can afford as they enjoy barkaat of "free salaams".......unaccounted money...show them lifafa and they will give their hand to grab...if without lifafa...u have to pull their hands to do salaam....... :-)

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#48

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:15 pm

humanbeing wrote:
So basically one who does not pay sabeel and wajebaat are not only defaulter but they are non muslims ....
bro humanbeing,

i am sure the above is a typo? you cant possibly mean what you said! in my opinion a bohra who refuses to accept the shirk and kufr followed by the abdesyedna jamaats and leaves their tyrannical and exploitative regime is the 'real' bohra and muslim.


humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#49

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:33 pm

Dear AZ
My comment was sarcastic, presenting thoughts of how Kothar thinks; those who do not pay.
---------------------------
With reference to Zakat, I believe it is 2.5 % on income earned, it is the share of Allah which must be kept aside at first instance of the income so it mean Gross Income. It Also makes sense, else we can draw up a laundry list of expenditures leaving a meager amount to ascertain 2.5 % from net income. ( experts may correct me wherever wrong) however this is my opinion.

Other additions to Zakat such as nazral mukaam, haqqun nafs, najwa, ikram, hajj-e-badal, khumus etc are fancy extra value added taxes together forming wajebaat.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:48 pm

Zakat is 2.5% of the amount that you have saved for over a year. It is not on your gross income. Zakat is also to be given on all gold, doesnt matter if it is for use or not, if above the threshold.

And yes people do find means to avoid zakat like the bohra clergy advising abdes to wear it all. But ultimately who are you trying to cheat? Allah? Seriously?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#51

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:12 am

I heard that Mansoos immediately after ensuring wajebat is collected he surprised or shocked the followers with a rapid new levy for mawaid which is compulsory and to be collected on lailatul qadr.

He is quoted to actually use the words crore and lakho have to be collected , for funding the whole years mawaid.

Is this widespread phenomena or is a rogue Amil on the loose ?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#52

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:16 pm

in the kondhwa/fatima nagar/parmar nagar area, all bohras have to compulsorily pay 2100/= rs PER HEAD for ramzan. this inspite of every iftari having been paid in full by individual bohras!

also since last several years in pune during wajebaat bethaks, a compulsory milaad fee is being demanded from every bohra. this could run from several thousands to hundreds depending on the abde bakra's khaal. again this is inspite of the big sums taken from every abde at the time of the actual milaad!

i suppose a time will come when even this pretense of attaching labels for every fee will disappear and the swines will simply demand an x sum, pay it up or else. they will set aside any shame and deceit and come down to open dadagiri.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#53

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:50 pm

SEE HOW THE TINY TOTS OF SAIFEE MAHAL ARE SUBJECTING ELDERS TO BOW DOWN :-
Image

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#54

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:56 pm

In Banswada, they are selling prayer space area as if it is a real estate and not a prayer place. In Burhani Kitab, Allah is only for rich.

LADIES

Privilege Type. Price. Description.
Masalla space with chair Rs.2,700 Those who need chair due to illness or old age.
Pehli Saf Rs.1,700 Those who need Masalla space in first line.
Window facing downward
(jaali na paase)
Rs.2,100 Those who want to sit at window facing downwards.
Bhabhi Saheb Saf Rs.1,500 Those who want to sit in same Saf where Amil's wife sits.
Pillar/Wall Support Seat Rs.1,100 Those who want to sit with support of Pillar/Wall.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.800 Those who cant afford above rates.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.750 Those who cant afford above rates.

GENTS.

Pehli Saf Rs.1,100 Those who need masala space in first line.
Second Saf Rs.500 Those who need masala space in second line.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.200 Those who cant afford the above.

THE ABOVE IS THE RATE CARD PREPARED BY AMIL AND CIRCULATED TO ABDES OF BANSWADA.

AbdeSMBSMS
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#55

Unread post by AbdeSMBSMS » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:15 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:In Banswada, they are selling prayer space area as if it is a real estate and not a prayer place. In Burhani Kitab, Allah is only for rich.

LADIES

Privilege Type. Price. Description.
Masalla space with chair Rs.2,700 Those who need chair due to illness or old age.
Pehli Saf Rs.1,700 Those who need Masalla space in first line.
Window facing downward
(jaali na paase)
Rs.2,100 Those who want to sit at window facing downwards.
Bhabhi Saheb Saf Rs.1,500 Those who want to sit in same Saf where Amil's wife sits.
Pillar/Wall Support Seat Rs.1,100 Those who want to sit with support of Pillar/Wall.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.800 Those who cant afford above rates.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.750 Those who cant afford above rates.

GENTS.

Pehli Saf Rs.1,100 Those who need masala space in first line.
Second Saf Rs.500 Those who need masala space in second line.
Least Privilege Seat Rs.200 Those who cant afford the above.

THE ABOVE IS THE RATE CARD PREPARED BY AMIL AND CIRCULATED TO ABDES OF BANSWADA.
How can we believe that the above listed statements of yurs are ture. If suppose by chance its true so want to make it clear that Our Maula ( TUS) is strictly against of all this so plz dont think that it is being done by the raza of Maula ( tus). See in every community therea are good & bad foes but for some bad foes u cant blame the whole community.
I will contact Banswada amil saheb abt this matter & if its true than i will take it to the higher authorities.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#56

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:43 am

AbdeSMBSMS wrote: I will contact Banswada amil saheb abt this matter & if its true than i will take it to the higher authorities.
please submit your report within one week. if you fail to do so, it will be assumed that you are impotent and sadly we will have to proceed with shredding your saya, kurta hijar, langoat, topi and dadhi.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#57

Unread post by think » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:53 am

money for namaz and vaez in masjid is nothing new to the bohras. This has been practised for a long long time. I remember during moharram a temporary womens seating was arranged at adam masjid, karachi and ladies had to pay huge sums to reserve a seat to listen to vaez and pray.

Humsafar
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#58

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:04 am

Is there a way to compute how much money was collected/wheedled out of Bohras this Ramazan?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#59

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:04 pm

i would estimate it as follows:

assuming there are 8,00,000 registered and fee paying bohras and each one has had to pay on average about 10,000 rs per head, (taking into consideration that in the west they charge in dollars, pounds etc which would be at the least 400 $ per head) then at a rough estimate it would be approx. 800 crores or about 145 million dollars. this is a very conservative estimate, it could be several times higher, but that only the dacoits and pirates of saifee mahal would know.

kaun kehta hai ki ramzan ibaadat ka mahina hai?
yeh to paisa chhapne ka mahina hai bhaiyya!!
jab bewaqoof abde bandagi me sar jhukate hai,
unke sarparast daulat gin ney mein masroof hote hai!!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ramzan - Mercy For Muslims But Nightmare For Bohras.

#60

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:01 pm

AbdeSMBSMS wrote:How can we believe that the above listed statements of yurs are ture.
[img]http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7471/k5a1.jpg[/img]