Ramadan Calculation Method ?

[anajmi]

By the way, ayat 2:184 does not specify the number of fasts. It only states that it is fixed.

This is beautiful. I stated this at a time before I started my 2 year old Arabic studies right here on this board and br. porus opposed it tooth and nail and now he is stumped. I am glad that he finally accepts that fixed doesn't mean fixed at 30!!

badrijanab is in a lot of trouble now. He has been fasting for 30 days, but, not all of those days have actually been in Ramadan!!

The same word for "fixed" (derivatives) is also used when asking people to cover missed fasts. But that fixed doesn't mean a fixed number. It simply means the same number as the number of missed fasts. If you missed 4 fasts then you fast 4 days on another occasion and if you missed 2, then you fast another 2. If it meant "fixed" as per badrijanab and porus, before he learnt his lesson, then it wouldn't matter how many fasts you missed, you would have to do a fixed number of fasts to recover. So 4 for 4 and 4 for 2 as well!!

[porus]

Moon's orbit around the earth is 29.5 Solar Days.

My simple math tells me that here will are 30 sunrises between successive new moons. Hence the figure of 30 days

Issue is complicated by the fact that Earth is not stationary and has its own orbit around the sun. Thus 30-day rule may not strictly apply to all the locations on Earth. This lack of alignment requires adjustment of day of a Hijri Calendar month in a 'leap year'. This is done for Dhul Hajj in Misri Calendar.

Of course, Ramadan, instead of Dhul Hajj, can be chosen for adjustment. That would violate 2:184 which needs fixed number of days. Ramadan is left unchanged by Bohras at 30 days. Of course there is no reason why it should not be left at 29 days. This appears to be a matter of tradition.

[anajmi]

As explained above, there is no violation of 2:184. Would the prophet violate the Quran? There is no need to fix Ramadan at 29 or 30 days. It could be either 29 or 30 days depending upon your location and the sighting of the moon. Fixing hasn't solved the problem for the bohras. This year, as per your calculations, bohras in the west will be fasting only 29 days in Ramadan. The first day was actually in Sha'ban.

[porus]

Idiot, understand that Bohras will not follow you. Stop barking here or perhaps keep barking all you want.

Bohras will fast for 30 days all over the world according to Misri Calendar.

Bohra interpretation is the days of Ramadan are fixed. They do not change year after year. Even if orbital anomalies occur, or rather, even if calendar anomalies occur. Idiot.

[anajmi]

Nice response. I know bohras will never learn. Heck, educated bohras are just as foolish and ignorant as the illiterate ones. At least, we have clearly established that Ramadan could be 29 or 30 days. Bohras will always fast for 30 days but not always in Ramadan.

Here is something very interesting I heard in the Jumua Qutba today. The fasting referred to in 2:184 is actually the fasting that is the same as the fasting of those who came before us, and that is not the fasting of ramadan as fasting in the month of Ramadan was not ordained for those who came before. The Ramadan fasting is mandated in the next verse that is why the missing of the fast while ill and on journey is mentioned again. The example the khateeb gave was of the first 10 days of dhul-hajj. The "fixed" number of days makes perfect sense in this case.

[porus]

Calendar is a man-made device, Idiot. We know we cannot have fixed days in all 12 months. Some need to be changed occasionally. It is just that Bohras decide to change a month other than Ramadan.

God did not give us a calendar. He just told us to observe a fixed number of fasts. Bohras interpret that to mean: Do not go changing that number from year to year, you Idiot.

Hijri/Misri calendar is a neurotic device. It tries to handle both the Lunar and Solar reckoning at the same time and succeeds at neither.

[anajmi]

It is just that Bohras decide to change a month other than Ramadan.

Doesn't really matter since Ramadan can be 29 or 30 days whether bohras like it or not.

God did not give us a calendar. He just told us to observe a fixed number of fasts.

Actually God told us to fast in Ramadan. Not 30 days in any month!!

Bohras interpret that to mean: Do not go changing that number from year to year

And I am the idiot?

[anajmi]

Ask yourself this question - Who is the true idiot? One who has based his entire religion on one ambiguous ayah (inspite of Allah's warning not to do so)? Or one who has taken into consideration the clear ayahs of the Quran?

[wise_guy]

For all those blaming bohras for 30 days each year... How do the majority do ?? Moon is seen at one place while not seen at others.. So much confusion all over..

[Sajauddin_Bagwala]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 031, Hadith Number 136.
Narated By Abu Bakra : The Prophet said, "The two months of 'Id i.e. Ramadan and Dhul-Hijja, do not decrease."

Observation: It means Ramdaan has to always of FIX number of days at 30.

[hunni]

I now conclude that what ever may be the calculation method, the misri calender turns out to be Good. It is better to observe not only 30 fixed fasts but also fixed dates throwout the globe.
The other's being confused. Actually if the call was to see the moon and start the fasts and to see the same to end, most of the ppl see it not. It is only they follow what they hear. It is upto the organisation which they follow.

Also consider a situation where I am in a country 'A' and will travel to a county 'B' in ramadan. Then it only adds to the confusion. If the country 'B' is ahead then I do less fasts .... or if it is behind then I do more. This is a topic to think.

In this regard, the credit is with Bohras.

[LionHunter]

I never saw " 30 days ramadan" written in QURAAN.

so I think like maghrib is not fixed through out the year, ramadan cant be of fixed 30 days.

wallaho alam.

[anajmi]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 031, Hadith Number 136.
Narated By Abu Bakra : The Prophet said, "The two months of 'Id i.e. Ramadan and Dhul-Hijja, do not decrease."

Observation: It means Ramdaan has to always of FIX number of days at 30.

And yet, the bohras change the month of dhul-hijja every couple of years from 29 to 30 and then back to 29, don't they? Stop quoting hadith that you do not understand!!

[LionHunter]

problem with so called shia is they spend more time in finding faults in abu bakar,uthmaan and umar then actually describing great deeds of ALI IBN ABI TALIB(s)

may ALLAH flourish fazail of ahlul bayt from true followers of ISLAAM.

[zinger]

Idiot, understand that Bohras will not follow you. Stop barking here or perhaps keep barking all you want.

Bohras will fast for 30 days all over the world according to Misri Calendar.

Bohra interpretation is the days of Ramadan are fixed. They do not change year after year. Even if orbital anomalies occur, or rather, even if calendar anomalies occur. Idiot.

Not true for mr. SBM (no offence meant to him), he is not fasting for 30 days.

im still waiting for him to tell me when will he observe Lai Latul Qadr

[zinger]

Br Zinger
As noticed by Br Porus posting, that it is miscalcualted so to answer your humble question, here is my humble answer, Inshallah I will start on
July 9th Tuesday.

Hello SBM bhai,

Ok, so i have 2 questions again

1. how about the other Bohras in your area? did they also start on monday or will today?

2. if the other Bohras started yesterday, then wouldnt there be a discrepancy in Lailatul Qadr and Idd for you? Idd i can understand as most communities follow it on different days but the former? How would you adjust for that?

Anyways, if you start today, then Ramzan Mubarak to you and all at home.

Hello SBM bhai, should not have piggy-backed on Porus bhai's post.

still waiting for you to respond to my 2 queries

[SBM]

im still waiting for him to tell me when will he observe Lai Latul Qadr

Zinger
There is no FIXED night for Lai Latul Qadr (refer to Surah Inna Anzalnaha) so I do observe all those Faazil nights to find the right one...

[badrijanab]

im still waiting for him to tell me when will he observe Lai Latul Qadr

Zinger
There is no FIXED night for Lai Latul Qadr (refer to Surah Inna Anzalnaha) so I do observe all those Faazil nights to find the right one...

If you don't agree to principles of Bohra maslaq then de-facto you are not Bohra mumin?

[zinger]

im still waiting for him to tell me when will he observe Lai Latul Qadr

Zinger
There is no FIXED night for Lai Latul Qadr (refer to Surah Inna Anzalnaha) so I do observe all those Faazil nights to find the right one...

SBM saab you say that there is no fixed number of days or date, Porus saab says otherwise

I guess this topic will just go on and on, round and round in circles.

English translation of Surah Inna Anzalah
Surely it (the Quran) was sent down during the Night of Decree
And what will convey to you what the Night of Decree is?
The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months
In it, the angels and the Spirit descend by permission of their Lord with all decrees
There is peace until the appearance of dawn

So what is the point that you are making?

Dont take this as an attack.
you can claim that our Dai is not in accordance with Islam, but what about our dates then? Surely you cannot doubt that can you?

[SBM]

If you don't agree to principles of Bohra maslaq then de-facto you are not Bohra mumin?

Badrijanab
Which Bohra Maslaq are you talking about? Bohra Maslaq of Syedna Burhanuddin or Maslaq of Alavi Bohra
Since you have not yet revealed who is your current Dai, which Maslaq do you follow, I understand you do have a PRISTINE BOHRA Maslaq but who is the current Dai of your Maslaq?

[badrijanab]

If you don't agree to principles of Bohra maslaq then de-facto you are not Bohra mumin?

Badrijanab
Which Bohra Maslaq are you talking about? Bohra Maslaq of Syedna Burhanuddin or Maslaq of Alavi Bohra
Since you have not yet revealed who is your current Dai, which Maslaq do you follow, I understand you do have a PRISTINE BOHRA Maslaq but who is the current Dai of your Maslaq?

When you personally will become intellectually honest!!! Break out of Anajmi spell, he is kingpin of all intellectual dishonesty.

I replied you previously on it and again here is the reply: the chain of rightful Dai Mutlaq stopped in Hindustan at 46th Dai Syyedina Mohammed Badruddin r.a. like chain of Prophet in this era has stopped at Mohammed s.a.w.w. After 46th, rest all are Dai Nazim not Mutlaq i.e. they are religiously unauthorised and only managing Daawat.

[SBM]

So can you be honest for once, who is your current leader or you are the leader and follower of your pristine Bohra Sect.

[zinger]

SBM saab, how about answering my query for a change, ive been waiting for some time now too

[badrijanab]

So can you be honest for once, who is your current leader or you are the leader and follower of your pristine Bohra Sect.

My current leader = authentic books and literature of all previous authorised personal from Aadam Safiyullah a.s. till date.

[SBM]

SBM saab, how about answering my query for a change, ive been waiting for some time now too

The day your Biggest Kothari Defender and Resident Adam answers all the questions posted by Humanbeing, I will answer your question
SO NOW IT IS UPTO YOU TO ASK ADAM TO POST THE ANSWERS ASKED BY MANY AND THERE ARE MANY QUESTIONS WHICH ARE IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT AND AFFECTS ENTIRE COMMUNITY WHILE MINE ONLY AFFECTS ME AND IT IS ONLY ONE AND I WILL POST MY ANSWER THIS IS CALL TIE IN

[ghulam muhammed]

My current leader = authentic books and literature of all previous authorised personal from Aadam Safiyullah a.s. till date.

So you agree that the hidden Imam has not nominated any Dai who could be your leader ?? BTW you are also following anajmi's principles of following books instead of a leader hence you have no right to abuse him !!

[zinger]

SBM saab, how about answering my query for a change, ive been waiting for some time now too

The day your Biggest Kothari Defender and Resident Adam answers all the questions posted by Humanbeing, I will answer your question
SO NOW IT IS UPTO YOU TO ASK ADAM TO POST THE ANSWERS ASKED BY MANY AND THERE ARE MANY QUESTIONS WHICH ARE IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT AND AFFECTS ENTIRE COMMUNITY WHILE MINE ONLY AFFECTS ME AND IT IS ONLY ONE AND I WILL POST MY ANSWER THIS IS CALL TIE IN

ok, fine, u are doing a cop-out.

i never meant to badger you, but if you feel so, then fine, i'll drop this query and assume that you do not have an answer.

[asad]

So can you be honest for once, who is your current leader or you are the leader and follower of your pristine Bohra Sect.

My current leader = authentic books and literature of all previous authorised personal from Aadam Safiyullah a.s. till date.

and who explains the books if you have any doubt. and in case if you refer to some learned man than the same question for him, whom does he refers to if he has doubts.

[badrijanab]

My current leader = authentic books and literature of all previous authorised personal from Aadam Safiyullah a.s. till date.

and who explains the books if you have any doubt. and in case if you refer to some learned man than the same question for him, whom does he refers to if he has doubts.

If I have to learn something I will refer authentic book, in it if I do not understand some matter I will inquire with other learned "nek mumin" and he will show the answer in some other authentic book. If that person is unable to answer then I will try to search with another "nek mumin"; almost always I will get the proper and orderly answers. If in case I could not find answer then I will pray to Allah and will leave that matter open ended and move ahead.

If water is not available for ablution then do 'taiyamum', former is like authorised person and later is like 'nek mumin'. Paak mitti is always available every where even in rainy season if you whip coat/cloth/book dust will come out and you can do 'taiyamum' and ultimately can exercise salaat.

[wise_guy]

Nice take on the ambiguity of the calculation -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcr-oRBJWi8

While Bohras unite and fast on the same days across the world, rest of the Ummah fight on which day to start Ramdaan and when they are frustrated, they come here and make fun of bohras !