Ramadan Calculation Method ?

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anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#91

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:08 pm

Adam,

Look at porus' post. The Al-Iddah you refer to, is actually not referring to the number of fasts in the month of Ramadan but the fasts that are missed. I am glad to say that my assessment of your Arabic knowledge remains accurate.

Nafisa
Posts: 255
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Ismaili Lunar Calendar

#92

Unread post by Nafisa » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:16 am

This is an acedmic discussion. I am a follower of Ismaili Calender,known as Misri Calender.
Attachments
Ismaili Lunar Calendar by Qazi Dr. Shaikh Abbas Borhany.pdf
Ismaili Lunar Calender
(568.17 KiB) Downloaded 237 times

SBM
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#93

Unread post by SBM » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:35 am

just in case if people forgot, we are in SHAWAAL and RAMDAN is over Just as we have given rest to month of Ramadan CAN WE DO THE SAME WITH THIS TOPIC

porus
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Re: Ismaili Lunar Calendar

#94

Unread post by porus » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:52 am

Nafisa wrote:This is an acedmic discussion. I am a follower of Ismaili Calender,known as Misri Calender.
Nafisa,

That is an excellent document that you attached. It is a definitive statement on Misri Calendar. We can all, henceforth, ignore jaahil Wahabbies on this forum and refer to this document for clarification. It is, currently, the last word on this topic.

Incidentally, the following reference on page 5 of the document is missing the ayat reference at the end of the document, page 8. It ought to be 2:184.

"It is the counted days ." [18]

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#95

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:22 pm

This document is poster procter ergo fergo fallacy 101. :mrgreen:

The prophet (saw) is the one who gave us the Quran and the Sunnah. According to porus, no one can now explain the true meaning of the Quran. Did the prophet (saw) present such an explanation to his sahabah and ask them to follow the misri calendar?

Or did the prophet (saw) ask his followers to look for the moon?

Here is the bottom line. There is no harm if fixing a calendar and following it or to fixing the number of days of Ramadan. I have never ever said that following a calendar is wrong. What I have said, and that hasn't been proven wrong by anyone, not even Arabic scholars, is that the number of fasts for Ramadan has not been fixed by the Quran. It could be 29 or 30. If you want to go ahead and fix it, you are doing so for your own convenience. Do not fall into the procter poster ergo fergo trap!!

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#96

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:40 pm

And by the way, on this very thread, we have established that this year, in the eastern countries, the Ramadan was only 29 days long. The first day of bohras Ramadan fast was actually in sha'ban and the last ten days of Ramadan for the bohras in the east started from the 20th of Ramadan.

So you see, no matter how much you fix a calendar there will always be times when you screw it up. Ramadan can be 29 or 30 days. Period. You might choose to fast for 30 days every year but there may be years when not all days would be in Ramadan, as we saw this year.
Last edited by anajmi on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#97

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:24 pm

Here is an excerpt from Daimul Islam in the book of fasting and itikaf under the section "Commencing the fast"

"Ali: When he saw the new moon he used to say, 'God is great, O God, I ask thee for all that is good in this month........."

According to Dr. Borhany
The Qur'an points out towards the Christians, among whom Siyam, is based not on sighting of the moon but on the basis of calculation
There is no evidence in the history of Christianity that they ever fasted for a full calendar month!! There are no such commands in the bible!!

My conclusion is that this document is based on unsubstantiated claims. The document represents research committed with a goal in mind. Not for the sake of learning but for the sake of proving a particular point of view. I think this document can be safely rejected.

LionHunter
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#98

Unread post by LionHunter » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:12 am

one of my shia brother posted very insightful thread on this subject

here

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php ... try2617124

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#99

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:14 pm

anajmi wrote:Here is an excerpt from Daimul Islam in the book of fasting and itikaf under the section "Commencing the fast"

"Ali: When he saw the new moon he used to say, 'God is great, O God, I ask thee for all that is good in this month........."
Imam Hussain a.s. was asked if time started for Maghrib salaat? "No", "Yes" was his reply: the moment when he was asked question; that time was not Salat time; but in next fraction of second the Magrib period started, so Imam Hussain a.s. said "Yes".

This exhibit, the highest possible degree of correctly precise reading of state of sun/moon/stars by pious ahlul-bayt.

When Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. or Mola Ali a.s. or others like them cite sun/moon - they do not make any error in calculation for beginning/end of any month. But common people or Mufti's and Molvi's does make error is sighting that is why North Bombay observed fast and South Bombay celebrated Eid!!!

Mumineen of Fatimi Dawat were blessed by their lord Imam Jaffer Sadik who was one of the great scientist and astronomer that he created Calendar so every common mumineen can start and end every month correctly.

Remember and Note: observing fast on day of Eid al Fitr is a big Haram and is penalised. Others who murdered daughter and progeny of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. were cursed in the form that they observe fast on day of Eid-al-fitr. Allah blessed Islamic mumineen (i.e. followers of Fatimi Imam) by gift of calendar; which is based on moon - as per Quran moon/sun move in fix cycle / fix orbit thus always every month will always have fix number of days. Only Bohras behamdolillah are blessed. Where else other keep fast on day of Eid-al-fitr!

SBM
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#100

Unread post by SBM » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:44 pm

BJ
Imam Hussain a.s. was asked if time started for Maghrib salaat? "No", "Yes" was his reply: the moment when he was asked question; that time was not Salat time; but in next fraction of second the Magrib period started, so Imam Hussain a.s. said "Yes".

This exhibit, the highest possible degree of correctly precise reading of state of sun/moon/stars by pious ahlul-bayt.
So how come the Dai(follower of Ahlul Bayt) and his appointees Aamil are always late for Maghrib Salat in Markaz, Why is always Maghrib Namaz never starts in time because the Purjosh Maatam takes longer and that the follower of Ahlul Bayt consider holier than Salat Ul Maghrib :x

porus
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#101

Unread post by porus » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:17 pm

Ramadan should start at new moon and end after 30 fasts. That is according to Quran and Sunnah according to Bohras. Daimul Islam quotes Ali ibn Abi Talib saying that the number of fasts are 30. (Refer to the Book of Fastin and I'tikaf, section entitled 'Breaking the fast').

Traditionally, months have either 29 or 30 days. That does not strictly coincide with cycles of the moon. 29/30 days are for man's convenience. In order to retain 30 days for Ramadan, days in other months, usually ZilHajj, are adjusted.

I am not sure who among Bohras are responsible for adjusting the days. If that authority becomes transparent, then they can publish their data and people can pick up the anomaly/error like the start of Ramdan earlier than the new moon in the current year 1434.

Bohras should not be concerned with what other Muslims do or get into argument with them about their beliefs about this issue.

I request Admin to lock this thread too. Like he did with the same discussion in 'Islam Today' sub-forum.

badrijanab
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Re: And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#102

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:01 am

ghulam muhammed wrote: The jamats that you are referring to are the Reformist ones and their opposition to the Dai's malpractices are well known.
The first law of these Reformist Jamat's (CBDBC) except that of Malegaon is: All reformist are Abde Syyedna (MB).

What you deliberately refuse to understand is that though Burhanuddin sahab felicitates Modi in full public view in a gathering of thousands of Bohras but still ALL Bohras in their heart are not in unison with the act of Burhanuddin sahab. ALL Bohras includes "ALL" Bohras; including Reformist and thousands of Abdes who are against this act in their heart and many are their who being an Abde have openly opposed some of the wrongs of Kothar and their agents. So Burhanuddin sahab action do not represent "ALL" Bohras of present, past and across world.

GM bhai, you are ignorant of Bohra maslaq doctrines and history. GM bhai, you are not "Hamdard" of Bohra mumineen. You are enemy of Bohra maslaq.

badrijanab wrote: Madani is an opportunistic leader of the Deobandi faction of sunnis and his views are not binding on the sunni community as a whole.
That division of Sunni's who are following seminary of Deoband Uttar Pradesh for them Madni is revered leader and his words in public media speaks indirectly of stand of Deoband seminary, who are perceived as fanatic Sunni's.

badrijanab
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Re: And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#103

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:52 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
badrijanab wrote:GM bhai, you are ignorant of Bohra maslaq doctrines and history.
badrijanab bhai, you are ignorant of Islam, its doctrine and history.
badrijanab wrote:GM bhai, you are not "Hamdard" of Bohra mumineen. You are enemy of Bohra maslaq.
badrijanab bhai, you are not "Hamdard" of Islamic Ummah. You are the number one enemy of the Prophet (s.a.w.) and his maslaq and this is evident from your numerous posts which are full of hatred for the Muslim Ummah as you spit venom on any and every Muslim because that is the only way that you can propagate your sect as defined by one Shk Ahmed Ali Raj who is almost a non-entity in the Islamic world.
Islam = Bohra and Bohra = Islam. No sect other than Bohras are in compliance with Quran (one of many example: fix calendar period).

anajmi
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Re: And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#104

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:33 am

(one of many example: fix calendar period).
Simple question - Did the prophet (saw) fix calendar period?
Simple answer - No.
Simple conclusion - Anyone who says fixing calendar is a command of the Quran, is a liar.

bohraji
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Re: And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#105

Unread post by bohraji » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:25 am

anajmi wrote:
(one of many example: fix calendar period).
Simple question - Did the prophet (saw) fix calendar period?
Simple answer - No.
Simple conclusion - Anyone who says fixing calendar is a command of the Quran, is a liar.
[/color]

Even the sighting of moon to start the eid is not mentioned in the Holy Quran.

badrijanab
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Re: And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

#106

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:26 am

anajmi wrote:
(one of many example: fix calendar period).
Simple question - Did the prophet (saw) fix calendar period?
Simple answer - No.
Simple conclusion - Anyone who says fixing calendar is a command of the Quran, is a liar.
You and your etc, etc and etc are lier.

Prophet saw moon but never err, he cannot err indeed. Likewise was Mola Ali a.s. and his progeny.

Sighting moon doesn't mean that Prophet have random number of days for month.

Common men is not Prophet! So for the benefit of common men our Imam Jaffer Sadik a.s. developed the scientific tool called Calendar = which is akin to correctly sighting Moon, the one like sighted by Prophet, Wasi and Imam's. Only Fatimi Dawat have progressed scientifically keeping herself in compliance with Quran.

Not one or two but many, score of aayat of Quran says that the movement of Sun and Moon is fix so calendar derived out of their movement have to be fixed. It is common sense. Only Intellectually dishonest zahil like you cannot realise it!

Ithna Asheri parted away from Imam Sadik a.s. so they were not bestowed by calendar. You and alike follow those who were not authorised by Prophet.

Having fix period for every month is command of Quran and only Bohra maslaq comply with it. Alhamdolillah

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#107

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Let me repeat

Simple question - Did the prophet (saw) fix calendar period?
Simple answer - No.
Simple conclusion - Anyone who says fixing calendar is a command of the Quran, is a liar.

Didn't the prophet (saw) think about the common man? Why? For the sake of the common man, the prophet (saw) reduced the number of fard salaah from 50 to 5, for the sake of the common man, the prophet (saw) got the tahajjud prayer converted from fard to sunnah. But he forgot about the common man when looking for the moon? Why? That is because he never thought that the common man would be as dumb as badrijanab. Even with a fixed calendar, this very year, badrijanab messed up. He fasted for 30 days but only 29 days were in Ramadan!!
So for the benefit of common men our Imam Jaffer Sadik a.s. developed the scientific tool called Calendar
So there were no common men before Imam Jaffer Sadik?
Last edited by anajmi on Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#108

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:10 pm

bohraji
Even the sighting of moon to start the eid is not mentioned in the Holy Quran.
Precisely. That is why you do what the prophet (saw) did. Not what people like badrijanab bhai do!!

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#109

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:24 pm

By the way, I would like to mention that following the fixed calendar is not haram at all. It is just a matter of convenience. But to claim that fixing the calendar is a mandate in the Quran is wrong and against the teachings of the prophet (saw). Imam Jaffer Sadik didn't want to deal with the sighting of the moon probably because people in his maslaq were a bunch of fools who couldn't follow even the simple task of sighting the moon. So he created the calendar and Allah will reward him for it inshaAllah.

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#110

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:38 pm

anajmi wrote:By the way, I would like to mention that following the fixed calendar is not haram at all. It is just a matter of convenience. But to claim that fixing the calendar is a mandate in the Quran is wrong and against the teachings of the prophet (saw). Imam Jaffer Sadik didn't want to deal with the sighting of the moon probably because people in his maslaq were a bunch of fools who couldn't follow even the simple task of sighting the moon. So he created the calendar and Allah will reward him for it inshaAllah.
U and alike in maslaq of etc, etc and etc are all fools.

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#111

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:49 pm

Sun and moon run on fix path, hence calendar based on their observation by default have to be "fix", "constant" and not-random - refer Quran verses below

1. 13:2
2. 36:40
3. 30:25
4. 31:29
5. 39:5
6. 21:33
7. 55:5
8. 14:33
9. 36:38
10. 36:39
11. 16:12
12. 10:5
13. 6:76, 77 and 78
14. 7:54
15. 35:13

Also refer 2:184, this I've previously mentioned.

All these above aayat's categorically conveys that the cycles/path/movement of moon and sun are fix so calendar (a record of these cycles) have to be fixed. All months have to be fix number of days because the Quran says that the path of Moon and Sun are fix.

Above is simple criterion that any sane men can understand. This is one of the simplest proof that all non-Bohras are AGAINST the dictums of Quran. And ONLY Bohra maslaq is in 100% compliance of Quran. Alhamdolillah.
Last edited by badrijanab on Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#112

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:57 pm

All that is true but,

Was the prophet (saw) ignorant about these ayahs of the Quran? No.
Was Imam Jaffer Sadik more knowledgeable in the Quran than the prophet (saw)? No.
Is badrijanab more knowledgeable in the Quran than the prophet (saw)? Definitely No.
Did the prophet (saw) ignore the common man? No.
Was the prophet (saw) incapable of creating a fixed calendar? No.
Did the prophet (saw) create a fixed calendar? No.

Case closed!!

By the way, most of the ayahs are irrelevant to the discussion at hand about the number of days in a month. Night and day remain constant whether you have 29 days in a month of 30 days in a month. Except ofcourse if you are sitting on the north or south pole. Then badrijanab's entire argument comes crashing down.
Last edited by anajmi on Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#113

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:01 pm

anajmi wrote:All that is true but,

Was the prophet (saw) ignorant about these ayahs of the Quran? No.
Was Imam Jaffer Sadik more knowledgeable in the Quran than the prophet (saw)? No.
Is badrijanab more knowledgeable in the Quran than the prophet (saw)? Definitely No.
Did the prophet (saw) ignore the common man? No.
Was the prophet (saw) incapable of creating a fixed calendar? No.
Did the prophet (saw) create a fixed calendar? No.

Case closed!!
Jahil Anajmi,

If Prophet has not created the calendar - how does it imply that the number of days in months will not be fix?

Can you show from your Sihah Sitta, if Prophet has observed sometime 29 and sometime 30 number of days in Ramadan?

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#114

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:06 pm

Did the prophet (saw) create a fixed calendar?

answer from anajmi - No.
answer from badrijanab - No.

Case closed. Again. :wink:

badrijanab
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#115

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:09 pm

anajmi wrote:Did the prophet (saw) create a fixed calendar?

answer from anajmi - No.
answer from badrijanab - No.

Case closed. Again. :wink:
Above is proof of your "Jahalat" which is due to your intellectual dishonesty, which got inspired in you from your etc, etc and etc.

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#116

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:32 pm

Consider this to be a final nail in your "fixed calendar" coffin. The cycle of the moon is different for different places on earth. As we saw this year, the badri bohra calendar proved invalid in a lot of countries because it was based upon the moon cycle as observed from Misr. If all badri bohras follow the misri calendar, then the badri bohras outside of misr will be out of compliance more often than not. Hence, the badri bohras in every country, or even cities, need to come up with their own "fixed calendar" based upon the lunar cycle as observed from their own local areas. Until they do, all badri bohras are out of compliance with the quran as interpreted by badrijanab, except the badri bohras living in misr.

Case Closed. Again!!

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#117

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:41 pm

Consider this to be a final nail in your "unfixed calendar" coffin. The cycle of the moon is same for all places on earth. Proof below from Quran (Quran dictum is for every place on earth and for all era's) -

1. 13:2
2. 36:40
3. 30:25
4. 31:29
5. 39:5
6. 21:33
7. 55:5
8. 14:33
9. 36:38
10. 36:39
11. 16:12
12. 10:5
13. 6:76, 77 and 78
14. 7:54
15. 35:13

In Sunni's Sihah Sitta, their most authentic six books on Hadith of Prophets - no where, not even a single tradition says: If Prophet in his life of sixty three years if ever observed sometime 29 and sometimes 30 fasts in Ramdaa!!!

Above Quran aayat proves: Only Bohras maslaq are in compliance with Quran and all non-Bohras are otherwise. Case Closed. Again!!

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#118

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:32 pm

badrijanab bhai,

Read this statement from your less ignorant pal.
In order to retain 30 days for Ramadan, days in other months, usually ZilHajj, are adjusted.
This proves that your calendar is not fixed. If the cycle of the moon is fixed, then why the need to adjust zilhajj?

In Sunni's Sahih Sitta nowhere does it say that the prophet (saw) mandated 30 days of fasting.

Check out this portion of Daimul Islam that your less ignorant pal referred to when trying to justify his erroneous claim.
This is what he said.
Ramadan should start at new moon and end after 30 fasts. That is according to Quran and Sunnah according to Bohras. Daimul Islam quotes Ali ibn Abi Talib saying that the number of fasts are 30. (Refer to the Book of Fastin and I'tikaf, section entitled 'Breaking the fast').


This is what Daimul Islam actually says. I am quoting the English translation revised by Poonawala.

[Ali]: He said, 'When you see the new moon, or two credible witnesses have sighted it during the day, then do not eat till the sun sets, whether [the crescent is seen] in the early part of the day or later.' He [also] said, ' Do not eat [but observe the fast] until thirty days have been completed since your sighting of the crescent moon, or the testimony of two witnesses who have sighted it.'

This shows that both you and your pal will stop at no lies to justify your erroneous beliefs. I am sorry I didn't look at this reference when he actually posted it. It is clear from above that Hazrat Ali is completely agreeing with the hadith of the prophet (saw) captured in the Sunni hadiths that you should look for the moon on the 29th but if you cannot see it, then complete 30 days. "or the testimony of two witnesses who have sighted it." directly implies that Ramadan could be 29 days as well if the moon is sighted.

A fixed calendar was created by Imam Jaffer Sadik for people like badrijanab because no more credible witnesses remained in that maslaq!!
Last edited by anajmi on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#119

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:36 pm

Nameless,

Your PM is disabledso I have to reply to your question over here.

To know the meaning of poster procter ergo fergo, you should send a pm to porus.

badrijanab
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Re: Ramadan Calculation Method ?

#120

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:11 am

anajmi wrote:badrijanab bhai,

Read this statement from your less ignorant pal.
In order to retain 30 days for Ramadan, days in other months, usually ZilHajj, are adjusted.
This proves that your calendar is not fixed. If the cycle of the moon is fixed, then why the need to adjust zilhajj?
Scores of Quran Aayat's are dictating: Cycle/moves of moon and sun are pre decided/fix/constant. Still you are not trusting Quran and using words, "If the cycle of moon is fixed"!!! Don't be unsure, Quran says and believe in it: "The cycle of moon is fix". Despite Quran clear dictates you are rejecting Quran - is the precise reason I call you "Intellectually Dishonest" - you are rejecting Quran and agreeing to unknown person's non-verified and non-vetted claims because that suits your misguided ego!!!!!
anajmi wrote: In Sunni's Sahih Sitta nowhere does it say that the prophet (saw) mandated 30 days of fasting.
Neither does it says that Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. in his sixty three years of life, if ever; even for one time has done maximum of 29 fasts in Ramdaan.
anajmi wrote: Check out this portion of Daimul Islam that your less ignorant pal referred to when trying to justify his erroneous claim.
This is what he said.
Ramadan should start at new moon and end after 30 fasts. That is according to Quran and Sunnah according to Bohras. Daimul Islam quotes Ali ibn Abi Talib saying that the number of fasts are 30. (Refer to the Book of Fastin and I'tikaf, section entitled 'Breaking the fast').


This is what Daimul Islam actually says. I am quoting the English translation revised by Poonawala.

[Ali]: He said, 'When you see the new moon, or two credible witnesses have sighted it during the day, then do not eat till the sun sets, whether [the crescent is seen] in the early part of the day or later.' He [also] said, ' Do not eat [but observe the fast] until thirty days have been completed since your sighting of the crescent moon, or the testimony of two witnesses who have sighted it.'

This shows that both you and your pal will stop at no lies to justify your erroneous beliefs. I am sorry I didn't look at this reference when he actually posted it. It is clear from above that Hazrat Ali is completely agreeing with the hadith of the prophet (saw) captured in the Sunni hadiths that you should look for the moon on the 29th but if you cannot see it, then complete 30 days. "or the testimony of two witnesses who have sighted it." directly implies that Ramadan could be 29 days as well if the moon is sighted.

A fixed calendar was created by Imam Jaffer Sadik for people like badrijanab because no more credible witnesses remained in that maslaq!!
Anajmi bhai, you may perhaps not be "intellectually dishonest" though it proves you are, with last part of your post above, it seems you do not have intelligence to begin with. You are the fool!

Have you wrote last part of your post in state of sanity or were you "tun" in daroo!!! What are u writing, huh!

1. The context is beginning of Ramdaan. Where else you are imposing your misinterpreted fancies that Mola Ali a.s. is talking about Eid (end of Ramdaan)!
2. Ameer al Momineen Mola Ali (alay his salam) is referring to begin keeping fast, where else you are imposing your faulty imagination that Mola Ali a.s. is concluding for ending Ramdaan fasting!!!
3. You correctly wrote: Ameer al Momineen Mola Ali (alay his salam) said, "Do not eat [but observe the fast] until thirty days have been completed" - read this third point again and again.

Simplicity is the hallmark of Islam = scores of Quran aayat says the cycle/path/period of moon and sun is fixed = number of days in Ramdaan or for any month is constant and fix. ONLY BOHRA MASLAQ IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THOSE SCORES OF AAYAT OF QURAN. AND ALL NON-BOHRAS OUTRIGHTLY ACT AGAINST THE DICTATES OF QURAN. Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. that is why have said, "All sects will go to hell but one who will go to heaven". Bohra is that single maslaq whose practice of observing fix number of fast in Ramdaan is in compliance with dictate of Quran. Where else Sunni, Ithna Asheri, Ibaadi, Nizari, Wahabi, Salafi, etc all practices random and unfix number of fasts in Ramdan, against the dictates of scores of aayat of Quran.

Alhamdolillah.