Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#1

Unread post by wise_guy » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:00 am

mukasir.jpg
See this picture, why is the old and weak Mukasir Saheb made to stand which is absolutely unnecessary here. Is that how we usually treat buzurg (elderly).

Die hard abdes.. any of your foolish defense in this case?

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#2

Unread post by Adam » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:26 am

Mukasir Saheb is standing in front of The Dai, his leader.
He is standing out of his own free will (with support from his family).
If he could not do so, he wouldn't have.

Be smart don't let your ignorance and hatred for DB beliefs affect your intellect.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#3

Unread post by wise_guy » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:29 pm

Adam wrote:Mukasir Saheb is standing in front of The Dai, his leader.
He is standing out of his own free will (with support from his family).
If he could not do so, he wouldn't have.

Be smart don't let your ignorance and hatred for DB beliefs affect your intellect.
Free will ? Is there any concept of free will in db hold nowadays ???

Looking at the picture and condition of Mukasir saheb, anyone with true compassion for elderly wouldnt have put him at such difficulty..

And u talk of ignorance n hatred.. The people who think they r aware like you, r ignorant themselves... Im no hater of db beliefs... just pointing to something which is absolutely unnecessary

Grayson
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#4

Unread post by Grayson » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:52 am

As Adam says, Mukasir saheb is standing out of his free will, and likely wouldn't have if he couldn't.
So I don't see this as being "Undue trouble" for him.
It's a running theme in our society: the problem for a good chunk of people isn't that they feel undue trouble, it's that they don't realize it is.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#5

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:31 pm

It's funny how mukasir has not said anything after Syedna's passing. In his sabaqs and even waez, he used to defend mazoon by saying that there is NO zahir batin and that the theory is wrong.
And it's exactly this zahir batin theory that the mufaddalis are using to claim the dai-ship.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#6

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:41 am

The problem is his sons.....they are very materialistic, not at all spiritual, they are all behind money, and money is with Johnny and Monny (muffy)

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#7

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:43 pm

Adam wrote:Mukasir Saheb is standing in front of The Dai, his leader.
He is standing out of his own free will (with support from his family).
If he could not do so, he wouldn't have.

Be smart don't let your ignorance and hatred for DB beliefs affect your intellect.
Agreed, mukasir saheb has shown respect by standing in front of leader though he was not fit for, but a dai who is so down-to-earth and filled with daya and rahem should request or order him not to do so.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#8

Unread post by New » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:33 pm

Muffi even sold his sick father, uncle? Why not? He has a dime a dozen of those. One of them is not for sale only "gale lagawane" for.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#9

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:38 am

fustrate_Bohra wrote:Agreed, mukasir saheb has shown respect by standing in front of leader though he was not fit for, but a dai who is so down-to-earth and filled with daya and rahem should request or order him not to do so.
Down-to-earth philosophy is not present in Bohra Doctrine. Anyone who hold position of Dai is greater / superior in rutba from any other relationship. Possibly a father / mother or any elder relationship bows down to DAI as a matter of respect. There was an instance of one of the previous duaat, where the mother washed the feet or touched the feet of Dai-Son.

People have different perspective on this kind of respect ! I understand that certain position requires / commands ritualistic or ceremonial respect. But I feel a humble leader can always do away with respect flattery and show humility in front of elders and specially challenged. This is for humble leaders, not present priesthood. They have moved on way too far. For current abde priesthood, respect has to be louder and brighter as it’s a food for their ego and security of ruling the masses.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#10

Unread post by true_bohra » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:54 am

why dont you go and directly meet him and clear your doubts.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#11

Unread post by haqniwaat » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:21 pm

Yes, clear your doubts. Ask anyone who went to mukasir's sabaqs what he said about zahir batin. He did not believe in it. And it is exactly this zahir batin theory that has been used against the late Syedna's mazoon, and in fact, the mukasir, also.
So why he's refusing to take a stand now is anyone's guess.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#12

Unread post by New » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:12 pm

He the Mukasir has made lots of money and still making vazifa. Thus he has to dance to the tune. His predecessor was no different for his love for money. However, the only bhaisab who was humble and down to earth was Mukasir s. Issac bhaisab Jamaluddin. You can see him walking in the Streets of Surat at times.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#13

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:23 pm

You can see him walking in the Streets of Surat at times.
New
Doesn't have any need for someone to hold his hand, like the others. It looks so womanly.

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#14

Unread post by saminaben » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:06 am

haqniwaat wrote:Yes, clear your doubts. Ask anyone who went to mukasir's sabaqs what he said about zahir batin. He did not believe in it. And it is exactly this zahir batin theory that has been used against the late Syedna's mazoon, and in fact, the mukasir, also.
So why he's refusing to take a stand now is anyone's guess.

I had posted something similar to this a while ago- and you are saying same thing too:
Re: London hostpital nass video and audio
by saminaben on Tue May 27, 2014 4:08


Mukasir sahib Hussein hasusain sahib - during his prime sabaq giving days asked people in his congregation to leave his Sabak if they do not pray behind Mazoon Bhai sahib. Mukasir sahib also, in addition to Burhanuddin Maula debunked the zahir-baatin philosophy propagated by the dushmans of Maroon sahib..

HusainBhai sahebz sons and family now manipulate him while he is frail - same way burhanuddin maulas son and family manipulated him after stroke.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#15

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:25 am

Yet another top position leader who is helpless, blocked and manipulated ! also he chooses to remain quiet for years altogether while enjoy the benefits and respect that community offers. Seriously !! this mystical silver spoon appointment busiNASS is getting on nerves.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#16

Unread post by JC » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:06 am

This 'community' aka Dawat was hijacked after the death of 46th Dai and has been converted to a cult where A family has succeeded in making it as their baap kee jageer. They act as manlords of their slaves. With money and power they have bought out many; if bohras in liberal educated and intellectual countries where there is exposure, knowledge and freedom cannot take small steps what can we expect from sheep in India and Pakistan??

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#17

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:41 am

haqniwaat wrote:Yes, clear your doubts. Ask anyone who went to mukasir's sabaqs what he said about zahir batin. He did not believe in it. And it is exactly this zahir batin theory that has been used against the late Syedna's mazoon, and in fact, the mukasir, also.
So why he's refusing to take a stand now is anyone's guess.
If this is true than I think many die hard followers of MS had also heard the same. Let see what they say regarding this (Zahir/Batin) concept.

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#18

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:42 am

fustrate_Bohra wrote:
fustrate_Bohra wrote:
If this is true than I would like to hear what MS defenders have to say regarding this (Zahir/Batin) concept.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#19

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:55 am

Syedna Khuzeima Qutbuddin saheb is doing a great job by being silent, i had commented before about my impatience that why SKQ saheb is not taking any action or step forward to debunk this manipulative concepts implemented by MS and CO to obtain power and money of our community.
But strategy is that, remaining patient and silent is the key to self destruction of this made-to-believe Muffadal Moula hysteria. As what we are witnessing now is countdown timer for Muffadal Clan, SKQ saheb silence is pinching them day and night and they cannot do anything better but to spill out beans.
This Zahir-Batin theory will take them down like a pack of cards and i can imagine how bohras will be let down by this theory.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#20

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:11 pm

Abdes lapped up the laanat on mazoon within minute and days, zaahir baatin concept is a gossip over coffee for abdes now ! …

The famous experiment of time and motion study worked very well on abdes ! wherein, the social scientist ran an experiment on a dog with help of a bell and meat chunks. He would ring a bell and present the meat to the dog. He repeated the exercise until dog associated getting meat with bell ring. The dog would wag his tail vigourously on bell’s ring anticipating meat.

Similarly

Show SMB and implant any idea in abdes !!

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#21

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:34 pm

The old man in the picture should be carrying a walking stick but then again he is the only person without glasses. He is like me just make some noise for a while and it will all blow over in a few minutes. I do not understand most of it , most of the time.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#22

Unread post by Adam » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:41 am

So why is Mukasir Saheb still on Syedna Mufaddal's side?

Why don't you follow him instead. You say someone of that rank should be followed in times of a "Fithnat" or confusion.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#23

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:14 am

Adam wrote:So why is Mukasir Saheb still on Syedna Mufaddal's side?.
To safeguard his retirement at old age. When young dynamic, courageos, jalaluddin leaders of the bohra dynasty such as SMB, SKQ and most powerful of all Hidden Imam did not speak. Why would frail mukasir sahib put his life in trouble.

SBM
Posts: 6350
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#24

Unread post by SBM » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:24 am

Adam wrote:So why is Mukasir Saheb still on Syedna Mufaddal's side?
Because Narendra Modi- Baba Ramdev-Bal Thackrey are also on SMS side

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#25

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:45 pm

SBM wrote:
Adam wrote:So why is Mukasir Saheb still on Syedna Mufaddal's side?
Because Narendra Modi- Baba Ramdev-Bal Thackrey are also on SMS side
And so is London Charity Commission and president of Egypt. 10 million Egyptian pounds. Figure it out.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#26

Unread post by Fateh » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:47 am

SBM wrote:
Adam wrote:So why is Mukasir Saheb still on Syedna Mufaddal's side?
Because Narendra Modi- Baba Ramdev-Bal Thackrey are also on SMS side
In short shaitan is ruling in materialistic world as well as in world of religion.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#27

Unread post by JC » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:41 am

Daulat or Taqat Kay Leay Kuch Bhee Karayga .......... :roll:

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#28

Unread post by alam » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:13 pm

Just heard, again, from inside Kothar sources, that Mukasir Saheb had been active and vocal in debunking the zahir-batin theory up until Burhanuddin Maula's wafaat. After wafaat he kept quiet about it. Now he is convinced that there is some basis to this theory, and therefore in crisis, wondering whether he was or is a zahir mukasir or baatin mukasir. This is what they (kothar) seem to be talking among themselves in today's circumstances. This is while He is very ill and possibly got very little time left.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#29

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:41 am

If he has any conscience at all, he should speak up!

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Undue trouble for Mukasir Saheb

#30

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:45 am

haqniwaat wrote:If he has any conscience at all, he should speak up!
I think he has conscience this is why he is not speaking up :mrgreen: there is no point to spoil party unless the other claimant bring some solid proof.