Is there any change?

[actual_progressive]

I am visitor of this site from last few months.i have read all these written from years.every religion has good and bad sides as ours. People keep posting and reading.but do anyone think that any bad activity in religion has stopped by doing these blogging and all these.even i think they are increasing year by year and you people are just posting. So why you all people are wasting your time and money just in typing and reading.in my this post also there will be so many replies but nobody will try to change anything. I don't understand people are writing so much and so much harsh manner but i have never seen anybody doing anything.why you people are wasting time after this.if you want to increase your blogging skills there are so many other places.and if you really care about religion don't just type and read.do anything meaningful and please don't ask me what is this meaningful as you all knows better then me as read by me in your forum.

[Al Fateh]

I do brig change in my own way and thats a long story (almost brought more then 50 guys out kothaar circle)

but any ways I am more interested to know what change have YOU brought till now, other then just reading this forum?

have you even change your self and your approach to ISLAM? if yes then is is more then enough for you.

[Bohra spring]

Actually why do you even bother to blog ....if we are so ineffective let us waste our time...try ignoring us .

Those who visit these sites regularly would not be doing so if there was nothing to gain, be informed, news, gossip, some even enjoy having an argument depending which side they stand or others simply are having fun.

What has it changed..indirectly it has fired a rocket up the kothar $&@$$ ...they no longer take bohradeen for granted...that is enough

[true_bohra]

Actually I have also been reading these blogs and always have a question that what is progressive bohra's progress???? This forum could have been a meaningful platform but unfortunately it is used just to abuse the Dai and the Dawaat.

[think]

step outside your caccoon and you will feel the change. the attitude of the bohri mumineen towards their mafia leader and their gang is changing. Bohra mumineen are finding out the truth. due to massive ignorance of the bohra mumineen in the small towns and villages of India, Pakistan and Africa this family is looting the mumineen. The more mumineen get educated , they want answers and when those answers are an empty drum, their thoughts and beliefs change. The changes can be seen in the big cities like bombay and Karachi etc.
Yes , change is taking place. The bohra mumineen have had enough of this corrupt bhaisaheb, amilsaheb, zada and mansoos. etc.

[zinger]

For once Think, i will agree with you.

This site was instrumental in me and my friends also realising a lot of wrongs in our community.

Now, if only u would get of your bohra bashing/Dai abusing high horse, you will actually attract a lot more people here and this site would actually gain a lot more credibility, which is something i have said in the past too

[think]

got to ride the high horse. It is the highway to fight for what is right or the byeway. What is wrong is wrong either way you dice it. It may hurt your soos and mansoos but that is the general idea to let them know in all honesty that they are screwing the bohra mumineen.

[Humsafar]

actual_progressive,
Looks like you are an actual abde, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt. You're right, just reading and writing is not enough, but you must learn to appreciate that it is actually a first step to change. People are at least reading and writing and it might someday, sometime lead them to do something about their situation. Not everybody will change but some will and that is good enough. Change always comes form a handful of motivated people, the rest always tend to follow. But the problem with our community is that it hibernates in a deep moral and intellectual inertia. There is no spark of sign of life left. Some who are still breathing and have a faint memory of dignity and freedom left in them come here to pour out their frustration, but are unable to do anything due to various reasons. And we all know what those reasons are.
The responsibility for change is with each individual, each family. Please don't blame us reformists if you abdes do not have the courage or means or ability to change your situation. We're not responsible for your miserable situation. Your masters are. Turn your ire and frustration towards them. One of you asked what have we reformists achieved? For starters we've have overthrown the yoke of slavery. We answer to no master and do not fold our hands and pay fealty to another human being. If you have any shred of understanding about human freedom and dignity you'll realise what a great achievement it is. Nobody forces us to pay wajebat. We manage our own affairs and property. Nobody breathes down our necks and tells us what to do. Our transactions and dealings are fair and transparent, and our leaders are accountable to the people. This past week the Udaipur jamat held elections to elect a jamat committee. This is a measure of success which is difficult for a people weaned on slavery to understand. There are so many other measures of success, but you'll have no appreciation of them because abdes have become sub-human, almost like puppets, they think and act on cue.
We reformists have achieved a lot, and just imagine the whole community can be like us. For this to happen, people have to start talking about it, reading and writing and then do something about it. That is the key. Do something about it. And don't blame reformists or this site for lack of action on your part. You don't need this site or any other means to change your situation. The urge and motivation for change must come from within you. If the motivation is not there, even God can't help you.

[humanbeing]

This forum could have been a meaningful platform .

Meaningful platform according to abdes = Maula ni duaa, maula na ehsaan ane karam, maula ni shaan, jalwa, jalal etc etc

Kothar Inc by far and large cannot dare to open a forum like this one. Because even a die hard abde has bucketful of complaints against high and mighties of kothar.

[Aftaab]

Actually I have also been reading these blogs and always have a question that what is progressive bohra's progress???? This forum could have been a meaningful platform but unfortunately it is used just to abuse the Dai and the Dawaat.

why dont you try and start a meaningful platform with raza of muffy sahab?

will he allow you?

[Bohra spring]

TB...I have personally made progress...that's all I care.

This site is one of my last links with my heritage...had it not been this site to show there are many like minded people...I would have made full conversion out.

There is something in this abdes mind that we have to show progress as if we are trying to conquer or take over...the purpose of protest and decent is just simple defiance. There are thousands of defiant bohras everywhere. Progress is round the corner when we will protest without fear in your faces. If women can do it is Saudi Arabia so can we .

[true_bohra]

if you want to protest then debate in proper manner. You guys simply abuse the Dai and Holy Office of Imam for un-islamic practices.
Just to remind that he holds the same office and same level of knowledge which his 51 predecessors possessed and you guys showing him what Islam is?

[humanbeing]

he holds the same office and same level of knowledge which his 51 predecessors possessed and you guys showing him what Islam is?

did 50 predecessors have bunglows/mahals/palaces in various cities around the world ?

did 50 predecessors invent / enforce collection of various taxes and also refuse accountability ?

did 50 predecessors refuse burials / nikah / and other events on non payment of taxes ?

did 50 predecessors make non-payment of taxes such a big issue to boycott a person’s civil rights to islam ?

did 50 predecessors facilitiate opressors like NaMo or others ? or did they act in accordance to Kutbuddin Shaheed against Aurangzeb ?

did 50 predecessors sell masalla space, set kadambosi prices, ziyafat, mafsusiyat, hadiyet, pagla/kadam, laagat, najwwa, ikraam rates ?

did 50 predecessors violate laws of land, by money laundering ?

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Gloriyfing themselves most/all of the time, is not knowledge. What kothar from 51 – 53 is doing is well planned mind control establishment of cult to satisfy their own rule.

Time and common sense is out there to see the genuineness of past 50 predecessors. If they were tyrant and cultish, we would have seen their palaces and opulence.

However our coming generations will see the oppression and opulence of new age kothar’s glorious rule. We have saifee mahals and badri mahals and many such mahals across the cities. Next generations will not speak of humility of Dai, but will discuss with awe of collections of cars, chartered planes, hunting safaris, political influence, 5 starred luxurious resorts ironically around simple-lived tombs of predecessor daais.

Many abdes on this forum mentioned that; Dai during Imam’s seclusion are not suppose to do Dawa, then what exactly did 50 predecessors did since the time they entered India from yemen ?

Why did kutbuddin shaheed defended many hapless hindu converts and guided them to path of bohra islam ?

Why did fakhurddin shaheed, travelled to far distances in rajasthan, Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh to spread the word of islam and in doing so was executed by tribals (Bheels)

Why there is a mention of a Dai in early migration days, of some 2.5 kgs of Brahmin thread being disposed when Brahmins/hindus converted to Bohra islam ?


Why is there a mention of Raja Tarmal and Bharmal learning islam and occupying important position in likes of Daai ?

Why are bohras famously considered as hindu converts ?


Please correct me if I m wrong !

[zinger]

he holds the same office and same level of knowledge which his 51 predecessors possessed and you guys showing him what Islam is?

did 50 predecessors have bunglows/mahals/palaces in various cities around the world ? ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors invent / enforce collection of various taxes and also refuse accountability ? ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors refuse burials / nikah / and other events on non payment of taxes ?ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors make non-payment of taxes such a big issue to boycott a person’s civil rights to islam ?ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors facilitiate opressors like NaMo or others ? or did they act in accordance to Kutbuddin Shaheed against Aurangzeb ?ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors sell masalla space, set kadambosi prices, ziyafat, mafsusiyat, hadiyet, pagla/kadam, laagat, najwwa, ikraam rates ?ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

did 50 predecessors violate laws of land, by money laundering ? ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT THEY DIDNT?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Gloriyfing themselves most/all of the time, is not knowledge. What kothar from 51 – 53 is doing is well planned mind control establishment of cult to satisfy their own rule. - OK, AGREED, TO AN EXTENT

Time and common sense is out there to see the genuineness of past 50 predecessors. If they were tyrant and cultish, we would have seen their palaces and opulence. - MAYBE THEY HAVE BEEN RAZED, HOW DO YOU KNOW

However our coming generations will see the oppression and opulence of new age kothar’s glorious rule. We have saifee mahals and badri mahals and many such mahals across the cities. Next generations will not speak of humility of Dai, but will discuss with awe of collections of cars, chartered planes, hunting safaris, political influence, 5 starred luxurious resorts ironically around simple-lived tombs of predecessor daais.

Many abdes on this forum mentioned that; Dai during Imam’s seclusion are not suppose to do Dawa, then what exactly did 50 predecessors did since the time they entered India from yemen ? HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DID? WERE YOU AROUND TO SEE IT? IF NOT WHO TOLD YOU? DO YOU SUDDENLY BELIEVE IN THESE "FAIRY TALES" NOW?

Why did kutbuddin shaheed defended many hapless hindu converts and guided them to path of bohra islam ? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? WERE YOU AROUND TO SEE IT? IF NOT WHO TOLD YOU? YOU HEARD THIS IN A WAAZ DIDNT YOU? DO YOU SUDDENLY BELIEVE IN THESE "FAIRY TALES" NOW?

Why did fakhurddin shaheed, travelled to far distances in rajasthan, Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh to spread the word of islam and in doing so was executed by tribals (Bheels)HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? WERE YOU AROUND TO SEE IT? IF NOT WHO TOLD YOU? YOU HEARD THIS IN A WAAZ DIDNT YOU? DO YOU SUDDENLY BELIEVE IN THESE "FAIRY TALES" NOW?

Why there is a mention of a Dai in early migration days, of some 2.5 kgs of Brahmin thread being disposed when Brahmins/hindus converted to Bohra islam ? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? WERE YOU AROUND TO SEE IT? IF NOT WHO TOLD YOU? YOU HEARD THIS IN A WAAZ DIDNT YOU? DO YOU SUDDENLY BELIEVE IN THESE "FAIRY TALES" NOW?


Why is there a mention of Raja Tarmal and Bharmal learning islam and occupying important position in likes of Daai ? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? WERE YOU AROUND TO SEE IT? IF NOT WHO TOLD YOU? YOU HEARD THIS IN A WAAZ DIDNT YOU? DO YOU SUDDENLY BELIEVE IN THESE "FAIRY TALES" NOW?

Why are bohras famously considered as hindu converts ? BECAUSE WE ARE


Please correct me if I m wrong !IM NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THIS INFORMATION FROM? IF YOU GOT IT FROM WAAZ, THEN ARENT YOU DEBUNKING THE SAME WAAZ? OR ARE YOU JUST SELECTIVELY PICKING UP WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR

MIND YOU HB, IM NOT CRITICISING YOU. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE SOURCE OF YOUR INFORMATION.

[zinger]

A caveat to my earlier post HB, i am not defending the kothar or the wrongs in our community, i am fully aware of it.

i am just trying to tell you that just like all we know is tempered with outside interference, all you know is also tempered with outside interference.

i am not trying to pick an argument on this with you, so lets both be gentlemenly and discuss this civilly

[Aftaab]

A caveat to my earlier post HB, i am not defending the kothar or the wrongs in our community, i am fully aware of it.

i am just trying to tell you that just like all we know is tempered with outside interference, all you know is also tempered with outside interference.

i am not trying to pick an argument on this with you, so lets both be gentlemenly and discuss this civilly

so you just want to sail on two boats?

are you confused or some thing?

Adam and progticide left forum because they know defending kothar is not possible now, I think you shud do the same?

[true_bohra]

@ AFTAAB
Adam and Progticide must have left the forum because they know "TUM JAISI BHES KE AAGE BIN BAJAANE SE KOI FAYDA NAHI"

[Aftaab]

@ AFTAAB
Adam and Progticide must have left the forum because they know "TUM JAISI BHES KE AAGE BIN BAJAANE SE KOI FAYDA NAHI"

BHES is better than an ABDE, so I consider it as a compliment

[zinger]

True_Bohra, i would not venture to guess what were the reasons behind Adam bhai and Progiticide bhai to not come on this forum. possibly you are right.

Aftaab, the last thing i will do is defend the kothar. they are indefensible. point out a single post of mine where i have defended them and i will eat my own topi

im just wondering the source behind all the assumptions that HB has made. has he heard it in the same Waaz that he discounts as fairy tales? or has he heard it from his elders? If from his elders, then were the around during the time of the past 50 Duaats?

@ Human Being. once again, im not looking to blast your theories or poke holes in them, i just want to understand where you arrived at these conclusions