21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

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Mkenya
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#1

Unread post by Mkenya » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 am

It is my humble understanding gleaned from Madrassa, Waiz, etc. that the 21st Imam went into seclusion due to internal and external strife in the Shia Movement and the world in general. I have heard all along that the Imam abdicated his Imamatship, delegated his powers to Sayyida Huratul-Malika and went 'gayeb' promising to return some day. Various scenarios have been mentioned to me as to when that will be; some fairly plausiblel and yet many nonsensical. Such is also the case of the Ithnasheris who believe that Imam Mehdi went into seclusion for similar reasons. The Kothari doctrine is replete with proclamations like: "Imam zuhur kiyamat na din thase", "Jyare duniya ma zulm ganu wadhi jashe", and so on. One needs to just look around the globe and tabulate how many wars are being waged. Heinous carnage is shown in all media on a daily basis. It would do well to remind people that almost all of these are among and between Muslims. In the annals of history one would not be able to find any such butchery as is happening today. I would humbly propose that if "Imam kiyamat na din zuhur thase" and "Jyare duniya ma zulm ganu wadhi jashe" are scenarios of Imam's reappearance then what is he waiting for. How much worse shape the world has to be for him to come and save Muslims from the carnage. To what level of "zulm" has to be reached before he appears. I have always wondered and questioned myself as to the validity and truthfulness of Imam going "gayeb". One thought is that the whole thing is a "hoi polloi" and given an aura of secrecy and cospiracy by the Kothars, Khomeinis, etc. to hoodwink the masses and make them blind followers. I would welcome your thoughts and please stick to the topic and express your views.

Aftaab
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#2

Unread post by Aftaab » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:53 am

I personally think there is no Saviour waiting for right time to show up, and all hadith pointing about such Saviour has some other meanings to it.

but I can be wrong, and I seek guidance and hidayat only from ALLAH SUBHANU. AMEEN.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#3

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:26 am

Mkenya wrote:The Kothari doctrine is replete with proclamations like: "Imam zuhur kiyamat na din thase", "Jyare duniya ma zulm ganu wadhi jashe", and so on.
This proclamation by Kothar is incorrect. Imam a.s. can and will do zuhur as and when he deems fit. On the day of judgement Imam Quaim a.z.s. will come.
Mkenya wrote: I have always wondered and questioned myself as to the validity and truthfulness of Imam going "gayeb". One thought is that the whole thing is a "hoi polloi" and given an aura of secrecy and cospiracy by the Kothars, Khomeinis, etc. to hoodwink the masses and make them blind followers. I would welcome your thoughts and please stick to the topic and express your views.
The most upset party on Imam-uz-zaman making zuhur will be Kothar and Ayatullah/Marja. These two have made their maslaq as "dukaan" to con common men and suck their money. Likewise is Nizari Aga Khani Imam who lifted all farz-amaal (pillars of Islam) like namaz, roza, haj, etc but not lifted Zakat! Followers may not offer namaz or haj but have to compulsorily give Zakat + Khums money to Aga Khan.

Mola Ali a.s. went into 'taqiyat' when environment was not feasible so did Imam Hasan a.s., Imam Ali Zain ul Abideen a.s., Imam Baqir, Imam Sadiq, Imam Mohammed Shakir a.s.

When situation was too severely not feasible for Imam to do zuhoor then next three Imam's completely went into seclusion like the Imam of present time: Imam Abdullah, Imam Ahmad and Imam Hussain al Mastoor.

When environment became feasible Imam Mahdi, the 11th Imam did zuhoor, his son Imam Quaim and his son Imam Mansoor all have revived Shariyat-a-Mohammadi. Imam Moiz founded the city of Cairo (Qahira) and Fatimi Imam for apporx 275 years exemplified 'What the Islamic States are'.

After the martyrdom of Imam Aamir a.s. the environment cycle again changed and Imam have to go back into seclusion leaving behind their authorised personnel 'Dai Mutlaq' with NOT absolute authority but boxed them into set of conditions, including criterion when existing Dai cease/disqualify to be Dai.

Mustaqar Imam is the captain and mustoda prophets, ban-ul-abwaab, Dai mutlaq, etc are their maids and workforce. They appoint them and stop their chain as and when Mustaqar Imam deems fit. Example) Chain of Mustoda Prophet ended with Mohammed (note: Mohammed s.a.w.w. was superior than Ali a.s.), Chain of Dai Mutlaq was stopped in Yemen, 23 Dai happened in Yemen. Many proves that chain of Dai Mutlaq also ceased in Hindustan after 23 Dai (total 46 dai's after Imam Tayyeb a.s.). After 46th dai - later all are only managing dawat, without 'nass' - that can simply be proven by assessing their character and moral values.

Mohammed + Ali + 21 Imam's = 23.
Fatima Zahra bint Rasool ke huroof = 23
Dai in Yemen = 23
Dai in Hindustan = 23
Mamthool of Layaltul Qadr = Molatina Fatima = on whose name Fatimi Dawat is, Qadr night = 23
Age of "Nubuwat" of Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. = 23
Zilhij ki 9th Arfa ke din Fazr ki namaz se 13th day ke Asar ki namaz tak # of takbeera = 23

Dai of Yemen + Hindustan = 46
Ababeel (in Quran) its count = 46
Ababeel protected Kaaba and destroyed elephant likewise 46 dai protected Imam of time and nullified false claim of their enemies.

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#4

Unread post by progticide » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:29 am

badrijanab wrote:Many proves that chain of Dai Mutlaq also ceased in Hindustan after 23 Dai (total 46 dai's after Imam Tayyeb a.s.). After 46th dai - later all are only managing dawat, without 'nass'
A single ayat of the Holy Quran is enough to prove that your above argument deserves a dustbin as its only rightful place.

Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 [Holy Quran 4:59]

Since Allah is commanding the faithful to obey the authority after the Prophet(SAWW), naturally that authority has to be manifested and ostensible to the people at all times in one form or another (Wasi, Imam, Dai). Now as per your rubbish argument if the chain of Duat ended @46, where is the manifest authority available to the faithful after the 46th. In that case, as per your argument, the Holy Quran would be wronged (nauzobillah) if there is no manifest authority(either Imam in Zuhoor or Imam's Dai al Mutlaq during Imam's Satr) available to the faithful to swear allegiance and exercise obedience to. But since the Holy Quran is the word of Allah, almighty and beneficient, We mumineen trust and put our faith in Allah's command, not in the hands of idiots and oblivious fools and roadside numerologist like you.

Hence, as Allah commands in the Holy Quran, we mumineen continue to follow the authority as prescribed by Allah. That authority is the Imam during the period of kashf and the Dai al Mutlaq during the period of Satr who presently is the 52nd in the unbroken chain of Duat Mutlaqeen; the faithful address him as AQA MAULA and the rest of the world knows him and addresses him as His Holiness Dr. Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS), the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, Dai al Fatemi.

BTW, the total No. of Duat in Yemen = 25, not 23 [you forgot that Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin (24th Dai) and Syedna Ali Shamsuddin (30th Dai) are buried in Yemen. Such calculation errors are characteristic of roadside numerologist like you]

Aftaab
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#5

Unread post by Aftaab » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:39 am

progticide wrote:
badrijanab wrote:Many proves that chain of Dai Mutlaq also ceased in Hindustan after 23 Dai (total 46 dai's after Imam Tayyeb a.s.). After 46th dai - later all are only managing dawat, without 'nass'
A single ayat of the Holy Quran is enough to prove that your above argument deserves a dustbin as its only rightful place.

Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 [Holy Quran 4:59]

Since Allah is commanding the faithful to obey the authority after the Prophet(SAWW), naturally that authority has to be manifested and ostensible to the people at all times in one form or another (Wasi, Imam, Dai). Now as per your rubbish argument if the chain of Duat ended @46, where is the manifest authority available to the faithful after the 46th. In that case, as per your argument, the Holy Quran would be wronged (nauzobillah) if there is no manifest authority(either Imam in Zuhoor or Imam's Dai al Mutlaq during Imam's Satr) available to the faithful to swear allegiance and exercise obedience to. But since the Holy Quran is the word of Allah, almighty and beneficient, We mumineen trust and put our faith in Allah's command, not in the hands of idiots and oblivious fools and roadside numerologist like you.

Hence, as Allah commands in the Holy Quran, we mumineen continue to follow the authority as prescribed by Allah. That authority is the Imam during the period of kashf and the Dai al Mutlaq during the period of Satr who presently is the 52nd in the unbroken chain of Duat Mutlaqeen; the faithful address him as AQA MAULA and the rest of the world knows him and addresses him as His Holiness Dr. Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS), the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, Dai al Fatemi.

BTW, the total No. of Duat in Yemen = 25, not 23 [you forgot that Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin (24th Dai) and Syedna Ali Shamsuddin (30th Dai) are buried in Yemen. Such calculation errors are characteristic of roadside numerologist like you]
but your Dai dont follow rules and ways prescribed by ALLAH.

Aftaab
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#6

Unread post by Aftaab » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:40 am

honestly you guys might be claiming so many things, but your actions are real proof that you guys have lost it big time.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#7

Unread post by badrijanab » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:58 pm

progticide wrote:
badrijanab wrote:Many proves that chain of Dai Mutlaq also ceased in Hindustan after 23 Dai (total 46 dai's after Imam Tayyeb a.s.). After 46th dai - later all are only managing dawat, without 'nass'
A single ayat of the Holy Quran is enough to prove that your above argument deserves a dustbin as its only rightful place.

Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 [Holy Quran 4:59]

Since Allah is commanding the faithful to obey the authority after the Prophet(SAWW), naturally that authority has to be manifested and ostensible to the people at all times in one form or another (Wasi, Imam, Dai). Now as per your rubbish argument if the chain of Duat ended @46, where is the manifest authority available to the faithful after the 46th. In that case, as per your argument, the Holy Quran would be wronged (nauzobillah) if there is no manifest authority(either Imam in Zuhoor or Imam's Dai al Mutlaq during Imam's Satr) available to the faithful to swear allegiance and exercise obedience to. But since the Holy Quran is the word of Allah, almighty and beneficient, We mumineen trust and put our faith in Allah's command, not in the hands of idiots and oblivious fools and roadside numerologist like you.

Hence, as Allah commands in the Holy Quran, we mumineen continue to follow the authority as prescribed by Allah. That authority is the Imam during the period of kashf and the Dai al Mutlaq during the period of Satr who presently is the 52nd in the unbroken chain of Duat Mutlaqeen; the faithful address him as AQA MAULA and the rest of the world knows him and addresses him as His Holiness Dr. Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS), the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, Dai al Fatemi.

BTW, the total No. of Duat in Yemen = 25, not 23 [you forgot that Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin (24th Dai) and Syedna Ali Shamsuddin (30th Dai) are buried in Yemen. Such calculation errors are characteristic of roadside numerologist like you]
You are claiming Burhanuddin sahib is the authorised person, based on him being successor of Tahir Saifuddin sahib... till to the first person in his chain, Najmuddin sahib whom you allege to be the successor of Syyedna Mohammed Badruddin a.q., the rightful 46th Dai Mutlaq.

Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?

My documentary evidence for my stand is: "Risala Nai" named as "Batshatul Kubra" written by your Najmuddin (1st Nazim) over the martyrdom of 46th and last rightful Dai Mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q.

Risala Nai is written by 'haazir' dai for his predecessor who passed away discussing the "nuss a jali" made over former by latter and discussing the death event of latter and other pertinent points in reference to "Nuss".

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#8

Unread post by progticide » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:44 am

Badrijanab,
You are a dishonest participant when it comes to debate. Whenever cornered, you attempt to digress from the topic and take the discussion on different track. But not this time. You first have to answer the below questions. The questions are simple and straightforward (unless ofcourse someone else jumps into this discussion from your end with another attempt to derail the subject and try to save your pathetic soul in vain which is already hellbound).

1. Do you accept the Word of Allah i.e. the Holy Quran?
2. Do you accept the mention of obedience to an authority in the Holy Quran , Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 (Holy Quran 4:59)?
3. Do you accept that the authority so mentioned in the Holy Quran has to be available to the faithful until the Day of Judgement, in one form or another i.e. after the Prophet(SAWW) either as Wasi, or Imam or Dai?
4. Do you accept that this authority has to be manifest and known to the faithful (ofcourse, otherwise how would you swear obedience to)?
5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.
6. So since the period of satr has not ended yet, if you do not believe in the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, then who is the authority that you are obeying after 46th Dai? Remember, obedience has to be exercised to an authority at all times as per Holy Quran 4:59. But you have yourself made a statement above that the chain of authority ended for you with the 46th Dai. So has the period of satr ended for you? If yes, who is the Imam who you are obeying? If no, who is the authority representing your Imam to whom you swear your obedience to?

And I hope you dont make a childish statement saying that you exercise obedience in the name of someone who you dont know. That would be like saying that you are embarking on the Haj pilgrimage without actually knowing anything about Kaaba, where on earth it is located and on which date Haj has to be performed. :lol:

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#9

Unread post by badrijanab » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:50 pm

Progticide,

Your and alike abdes failure to present any documentary proof was pre-known. When Tahir Saifuddin sahib and Burhanuddin sahib cannot prove themselves to be rightful Dai Mutlaq appointed by nuss, then "aap kis khet ki mooli ho". My response in green below -
progticide wrote:Badrijanab,

1. Do you accept the Word of Allah i.e. the Holy Quran?
Yes

2. Do you accept the mention of obedience to an authority in the Holy Quran , Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 (Holy Quran 4:59)?
Yes

3. Do you accept that the authority so mentioned in the Holy Quran has to be available to the faithful until the Day of Judgement, in one form or another i.e. after the Prophet(SAWW) either as Wasi, or Imam or Dai?
Is Quran in single point of time employing single person as authority or multiple persons? Always only single person is authority. Babul abwab, Hujjat, Dai Zazeera, Dai Balagh, Dai Mutlaq, etc are only servants of Imam, appointed by Imam and they are not the authority appointed by Allah; whether Imam is in zuhoor or in satr in either case none of these servants get appointed by Allah. Hence Sura Nisa:59 is referring to the person to whom Allah appoints i.e. Imam and 4:59 is not referring to Dai Mutlaq, the servant of Imam who are appointed not by Allah but by Imam.

4. Do you accept that this authority has to be manifest and known to the faithful (ofcourse, otherwise how would you swear obedience to)?
The authority is Imam uz zaman. Misaaq has to be tendered to Imam uz zaman and not Dai mutlaq. Tahir Saifuddin in court of law has confessed to alter original misaaq-naama to do bid dat i.e. to alter misaaq nama to add his name with Imam-uz-zaman. Details of it you can search on this forum.

5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.
Yes

6. So since the period of satr has not ended yet, if you do not believe in the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, then who is the authority that you are obeying after 46th Dai? Remember, obedience has to be exercised to an authority at all times as per Holy Quran 4:59. But you have yourself made a statement above that the chain of authority ended for you with the 46th Dai. So has the period of satr ended for you? If yes, who is the Imam who you are obeying? If no, who is the authority representing your Imam to whom you swear your obedience to?
Imam-uz-zaman is the authority, our faith is in him same like the then mumin faith who were in era of Imam Abdullah a.s., Imam Ahmed a.s. and Imam Hussain al Mastoor a.s. Satr has not ended, it is in progress. The Misaaq is only for Imam-uz-zaman. Presently their is no appointed authorised representative of Imam-uz-zaman. But we have literature and nek-mumin with no titles = paak saaf mitti, and one do not have water for ablution then use that mitti to do taiyamum, and paak mitti is available every where, even in heavy rains when you dust your clothes or books the mitti will come for one to do taiyamum which is akin to bath + ablution.
When you become intellectually honest, if so happen then think deeply over below and then you will be washed from your brainwash -

You are claiming Burhanuddin sahib is the authorised person, based on him being successor of Tahir Saifuddin sahib... till to the first person in his chain, Najmuddin sahib whom you allege to be the successor of Syyedna Mohammed Badruddin a.q., the rightful 46th Dai Mutlaq.

Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?


My documentary evidence for my stand is: "Risala Nai" named as "Batshatul Kubra" written by your Najmuddin (1st Nazim) over the martyrdom of 46th and last rightful Dai Mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q.


Risala Nai is written by 'haazir' dai for his predecessor who passed away discussing the "nuss a jali" made over former by latter and discussing the death event of latter and other pertinent points in reference to "Nuss".

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#10

Unread post by progticide » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:46 am

Badrijanab,
You are intellectually hollow. Please do your homework before coming on this forum and throwing around rubbish. People who think you are some genius and Aalim w.r.t. DB doctrines are already misguided, stop further misguiding them. You are nothing but a lost soul determined to misguide and distract others and leading them into Hellfire.

My response in Red below. Let everyone see what crap you are actually throwing in the name of knowledge.
badrijanab wrote:
progticide wrote:Badrijanab,

1. Do you accept the Word of Allah i.e. the Holy Quran?
Yes

2. Do you accept the mention of obedience to an authority in the Holy Quran , Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 (Holy Quran 4:59)?
Yes

3. Do you accept that the authority so mentioned in the Holy Quran has to be available to the faithful until the Day of Judgement, in one form or another i.e. after the Prophet(SAWW) either as Wasi, or Imam or Dai?
Is Quran in single point of time employing single person as authority or multiple persons? Always only single person is authority. Babul abwab, Hujjat, Dai Zazeera, Dai Balagh, Dai Mutlaq, etc are only servants of Imam, appointed by Imam and they are not the authority appointed by Allah; whether Imam is in zuhoor or in satr in either case none of these servants get appointed by Allah. Hence Sura Nisa:59 is referring to the person to whom Allah appoints i.e. Imam and 4:59 is not referring to Dai Mutlaq, the servant of Imam who are appointed not by Allah but by Imam. Even if we were to, for argument sake only, accept your above contention, it means that you are accepting that the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is appointed by the Imam. Hence, you accept that the Dai al Mutlaq receives his authority from the Imam himself and that authority could be to the extent of swearing complete and unquestionable obedience to the Dai al Mutlaq since the Imam has complete authority to give as much authority to the Dai al Mutlaq for execution of Dawat affairs as the Imam deems appropriate and you and I have no say whatsoever as to how much authority the Imam can delegate to the Dai al Mutlaq. Answer in Yes or No?

4. Do you accept that this authority has to be manifest and known to the faithful (ofcourse, otherwise how would you swear obedience to)?
The authority is Imam uz zaman. Misaaq has to be tendered to Imam uz zaman and not Dai mutlaq. Tahir Saifuddin in court of law has confessed to alter original misaaq-naama to do bid dat i.e. to alter misaaq nama to add his name with Imam-uz-zaman. Details of it you can search on this forum.. Again, as usual you did not answer the question and to escape answering this simple question you digressed the subject and ended up story-telling. The question is simple. Please read the question again and answer in Yes or No.

5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.
Yes

6. So since the period of satr has not ended yet, if you do not believe in the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, then who is the authority that you are obeying after 46th Dai? Remember, obedience has to be exercised to an authority at all times as per Holy Quran 4:59. But you have yourself made a statement above that the chain of authority ended for you with the 46th Dai. So has the period of satr ended for you? If yes, who is the Imam who you are obeying? If no, who is the authority representing your Imam to whom you swear your obedience to?
Imam-uz-zaman is the authority, our faith is in him same like the then mumin faith who were in era of Imam Abdullah a.s., Imam Ahmed a.s. and Imam Hussain al Mastoor a.s. Satr has not ended, it is in progress. The Misaaq is only for Imam-uz-zaman. Presently their is no appointed authorised representative of Imam-uz-zaman. But we have literature and nek-mumin with no titles = paak saaf mitti, and one do not have water for ablution then use that mitti to do taiyamum, and paak mitti is available every where, even in heavy rains when you dust your clothes or books the mitti will come for one to do taiyamum which is akin to bath + ablution. . You need to read the history books again. During the period of the above Aimmat Mastureen, there was a well-established link between the Imam and his Duat. You probably missed the chapters where it is described how the Imam used to receive the gifts and offerings from the faithful through the network of duat and how the dawat affairs were managed through the underground network of Dais. This proves that there were appointed representatives of the Imam during that period of satr and the mumineen were not forsaken at any point in time. Your above contention that the above Aimmat Mastureen had left the mumineen to fend for themselves is utterly preposterous, irresponsible and despicable. This shows the amount of faith you have in the Imamuzzaman. The Imam always has his authorised representative to take care of the well-being of the mumineen. So now, since your above argument of Tayamum has been reduced to dust itself, tell us who is the authority for you who represents the Imam, since you accepted above that the period of satr has not ended. I have proven to you from history that the Imam always has his authorised representative during Imam's satr. So, now we await to know who is that authority that you swear your obedience to.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
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Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:45 am

where it is described how the Imam used to receive the gifts and offerings from the faithful through the network of duat
And what were the faithful getting from the Imam?

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#12

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:52 am

progticide wrote:You probably missed the chapters where it is described how the Imam used to receive the gifts and offerings from the faithful through the network of duat and how the dawat affairs were managed through the underground network of Dais.
When the Imam is Present (known), Dais are Hidden (undercover) known only to Imam.
When the Dai is Present (known), Imam is hidden (undercover) known only to Dai

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#13

Unread post by badrijanab » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:50 pm

progticide wrote: Even if we were to, for argument sake only, accept your above contention, it means that you are accepting that the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is appointed by the Imam. Answer in Yes or No?
No. You and other accomplice of your including Mohd. Burhanuddin sahib himself failed to prove that they are rightful dai al mutlaq appointed by nass (in line after 46th rightful dai-al-mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q.).
progticide wrote:5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.
Prove from any authentic Fatimi dawat book which says, that till the Imam-uz-zaman is in satr the chain of dai mutlaq cannot cease? The line of rightful mazoon too can come up! As we learnt from the Imami Khutoot sent to Najmuddin after he murdered Molana Mohammed Badruudin a.q. which is reported by many renowned writer like Allama Sheikh Chand Khan Ji, Farhad Daftry, etc.

progticide wrote:You need to read the history books again. During the period of the above Aimmat Mastureen, there was a well-established link between the Imam and his Duat. You probably missed the chapters where it is described how the Imam used to receive the gifts and offerings from the faithful through the network of duat and how the dawat affairs were managed through the underground network of Dais.
Under which "fasal" or chapter of Uyunal Akhbar or Muntaza al Akhbar or Mosam-a-Bahar above is mentioned?

************************************************************************************************************************************

I promptly reply to you, but what is the matter that you are shying and unable to answer below?
You are claiming Burhanuddin sahib is the authorised person, based on him being successor of Tahir Saifuddin sahib... till to the first person in his chain, Najmuddin sahib whom you allege to be the successor of Syyedna Mohammed Badruddin a.q., the rightful 46th Dai Mutlaq.

Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?

My documentary evidence for my stand is: "Risala Nai" named as "Batshatul Kubra" written by your Najmuddin (1st Nazim) over the martyrdom of 46th and last rightful Dai Mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q.

Risala Nai is written by 'haazir' dai for his predecessor who passed away discussing the "nuss a jali" made over former by latter and discussing the death event of latter and other pertinent points in reference to "Nuss".

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#14

Unread post by progticide » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:35 am

Read my response in Red below:
badrijanab wrote:
progticide wrote: Even if we were to, for argument sake only, accept your above contention, it means that you are accepting that the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is appointed by the Imam. Answer in Yes or No?
No. You and other accomplice of your including Mohd. Burhanuddin sahib himself failed to prove that they are rightful dai al mutlaq appointed by nass (in line after 46th rightful dai-al-mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q.). Can't you understand simple english. If you cant understand english, then please tell us so that I may stop wasting my valuable time debating with you. The question is simple. I am not talking about 52nd, 51st....47th....43rd....33rd etc....I have said the Dai al Mutlaq of the time. So do you accept that the Dai al Mutlaq even before 46th Dai were appointed by the Imam and receive their authority from the Imam himself. Answer in Yes or No?
progticide wrote:5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.
Prove from any authentic Fatimi dawat book which says, that till the Imam-uz-zaman is in satr the chain of dai mutlaq cannot cease? The line of rightful mazoon too can come up! As we learnt from the Imami Khutoot sent to Najmuddin after he murdered Molana Mohammed Badruudin a.q. which is reported by many renowned writer like Allama Sheikh Chand Khan Ji, Farhad Daftry, etc. Moron Badrijanab, You have already said Yes to this question above. Stop making a fool of yourself in front of the entire world. Or are you trying to say that your response above was wrong and you made a mistake by saying Yes above and now want to change your stand. Remember, everyone is watching you and your responses. And BTW, who really cares what your Chand and Suraj and Asteroids and Comets and Farhad Daftary have to say about our History.
progticide wrote:You need to read the history books again. During the period of the above Aimmat Mastureen, there was a well-established link between the Imam and his Duat. You probably missed the chapters where it is described how the Imam used to receive the gifts and offerings from the faithful through the network of duat and how the dawat affairs were managed through the underground network of Dais.
Under which "fasal" or chapter of Uyunal Akhbar or Muntaza al Akhbar or Mosam-a-Bahar above is mentioned? If you have read only these works than you need to educate yourself much more. While Uyun al akhbar is comprehensive, there are more and varied details available on each period in several other works. Dont expect me to tell you about those. If you dont know where to look go ask your authority "Nek Mumin" to tell you about those. BTW, we are still waiting to here the name of your authority who you swear your obedience to during the Imam's Satr. Your Tayamum theory has already been proven a farce.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#15

Unread post by think » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:31 pm

as per prog; if the link was so well established then there was no need to be in hiding. People of the time would have known if the link was so well established.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#16

Unread post by Adam » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:13 pm

@BADRIJANAB
Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?
Here is what I posted a long time ago on :
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=7769

- Syedna Mohammed Badruddin did Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin twice in public.
Pune Waaz in Moharram 1254H & Surat Moharram Waaz in 1256H
- Records of the hand written letter by Syedna Mohammed Badruddin himself proclaiming Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin "Risalah Takbeer Sakina Fateh" Page 275 - 277
- There are several letters written to Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from his Hudood including Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin and Miya Saheb Wali bhai using the words "المنصوص عليه مرار" - (He who had the proclamation of Nass done on him multiple times) "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 181-3 & "Risala Rawdate Firdaws Page 165
- 49th Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a witness to the Nass, and he has recorded it in his "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 169


Now,
You believe there were 46 Dais, and then the ball just stopped there? No leader after that? Did the Imam come and tell you'll everything stops right now? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or (Ahmeq) of Udaipur?
If you believe in the concept of "Nazim", you have also openly insulted the 52nd Dai from your above post, so you've not even accepted him as a Nazim, so you don't even have a Nazim right now.
So who handles your affairs now?

Leave it.
You'll don't care about Dais or Nazims. It's just hatred that makes you blind.
Sad story.

These are some examples, there are much more.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#17

Unread post by incredible » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:52 pm

Adam wrote:@BADRIJANAB
Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?
Here is what I posted a long time ago on :
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=7769

- Syedna Mohammed Badruddin did Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin twice in public.
Pune Waaz in Moharram 1254H & Surat Moharram Waaz in 1256H
- Records of the hand written letter by Syedna Mohammed Badruddin himself proclaiming Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin "Risalah Takbeer Sakina Fateh" Page 275 - 277
- There are several letters written to Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from his Hudood including Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin and Miya Saheb Wali bhai using the words "المنصوص عليه مرار" - (He who had the proclamation of Nass done on him multiple times) "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 181-3 & "Risala Rawdate Firdaws Page 165
- 49th Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a witness to the Nass, and he has recorded it in his "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 169


Now,
You believe there were 46 Dais, and then the ball just stopped there? No leader after that? Did the Imam come and tell you'll everything stops right now? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or (Ahmeq) of Udaipur?
If you believe in the concept of "Nazim", you have also openly insulted the 52nd Dai from your above post, so you've not even accepted him as a Nazim, so you don't even have a Nazim right now.
So who handles your affairs now?

Leave it.
You'll don't care about Dais or Nazims. It's just hatred that makes you blind.
Sad story.

These are some examples, there are much more.
when they do nass to each other, do they also teach how to dig graves of muslim and throw their naked bodies on road?

please comment on this action of your safiq bawa

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8582

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#18

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:13 pm

Burhanuddin went a step further. He got Abbas Aurangabadi Sahib killed as a gift to his father. Evil runs for generations. Just some weeds in the garden of humanity. All their day to day actions are to remove resources from the Yateem and Miskeen. Such life comes with brain sucking hopelessness and despair. May they all live for hundreds of years in bad health and constant pain.

zinger
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#19

Unread post by zinger » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:56 pm

seeker110 wrote:Burhanuddin went a step further. He got Abbas Aurangabadi Sahib killed as a gift to his father. Evil runs for generations. Just some weeds in the garden of humanity. All their day to day actions are to remove resources from the Yateem and Miskeen. Such life comes with brain sucking hopelessness and despair. May they all live for hundreds of years in bad health and constant pain.

and you want to call us brainwashed and intolerant and abusive!!! :roll:

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#20

Unread post by incredible » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:01 am

zinger wrote:
seeker110 wrote:Burhanuddin went a step further. He got Abbas Aurangabadi Sahib killed as a gift to his father. Evil runs for generations. Just some weeds in the garden of humanity. All their day to day actions are to remove resources from the Yateem and Miskeen. Such life comes with brain sucking hopelessness and despair. May they all live for hundreds of years in bad health and constant pain.

and you want to call us brainwashed and intolerant and abusive!!! :roll:

can u refute him?

what wrong has he said?

what else can be said to grave diggers and kafan chors?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1307
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#21

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:32 am

Progticide stated the criteria of his definition of a DB

I will comment from contemporary view point

1. Do you accept the Word of Allah i.e. the Holy Quran? Yes after this point it is your ideology vs others.

2. Do you accept the mention of obedience to an authority in the Holy Quran , Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 (Holy Quran 4:59)?

Selectively picking ayats to justify a motive is very common I think the reader needs to look at the complete context and the reason the Ayat was relayed .

58. Verily! Allah commands that you should render back the trusts to those, to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He (Allah) gives you! Truly, Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Seer.

59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad ), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

60. Have you seen those (hyprocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Taghut (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaitan (Satan) wishes to lead them far astray.

61. And when it is said to them: "Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger (Muhammad )," you (Muhammad ) see the hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad ) with aversion.

62. How then, when a catastrophe befalls them because of what their hands have sent forth, they come to you swearing by Allah, "We meant no more than goodwill and conciliation!"

63. They (hypocrites) are those of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; so turn aside from them (do not punish them) but admonish them, and speak to them an effective word (i.e. to believe in Allah, worship Him, obey Him, and be afraid of Him) to reach their innerselves.

64. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave. If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to themselves, had come to you (Muhammad ) and begged Allah's Forgiveness, and the Messenger had begged forgiveness for them: indeed, they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who accepts repentance), Most Merciful.

65. But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.

3. Do you accept that the authority so mentioned in the Holy Quran has to be available to the faithful until the Day of Judgement, in one form or another i.e. after the Prophet(SAWW) either as Wasi, or Imam or Dai?

If the above ayat is not completely relevant what else proof do you have to state that a Wasi will be nominated and an Imam will always be there to appoint a diai. Is this more of a customary practise evolved over time.

4. Do you accept that this authority has to be manifest and known to the faithful (ofcourse, otherwise how would you swear obedience to)?

Accepting a new innovated ritual distorts the Islamic ideology . There is no where mentioned in early scriptures or evidence of the purpose of Islam as intended by the Prophet Saw that this obedience had to carry over and assigned to a person claiming association to the the pioneers of our faith.

5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.

So what if we say no there are literally 100s of individuals in history between Nizaris, Alawi, Dawoodi, Suleimani who claim they are the one an only diai of the Imams. Either some are right or all are fake or hallucinating. Not believing in them does not make anyone less committed to Islam.

6. So since the period of satr has not ended yet, if you do not believe in the 52nd Dai al Mutlaq, then who is the authority that you are obeying after 46th Dai? Remember, obedience has to be exercised to an authority at all times as per Holy Quran 4:59. But you have yourself made a statement above that the chain of authority ended for you with the 46th Dai. So has the period of satr ended for you? If yes, who is the Imam who you are obeying? If no, who is the authority representing your Imam to whom you swear your obedience to?

Repeating again a person can claim authority but is not required for core Islamic faith. It even becomes ludicrous when the diai contradicts Islamic fundamentals and cause division and distortion.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#22

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:35 am

Mkenya wrote: I have always wondered and questioned myself as to the validity and truthfulness of Imam going "gayeb". One thought is that the whole thing is a "hoi polloi" and given an aura of secrecy and cospiracy by the Kothars, Khomeinis, etc. to hoodwink the masses and make them blind followers. I would welcome your thoughts and please stick to the topic and express your views.
In light of above observation from Mkenya, I too feel the same and moreover over discussion with few sane minded, rational thinkers, they too present similar questions. Why is the All-Powerful-Imam not coming out in open ?


All the Jazz that Kothar Agents give around justifying the Imam’s seclusion is a hogwash which is clear to common sense that Imam Secluded is far more advantageous for Kothari Inc. than a Declared Imam.


Kothar Agents, be it on this forum or in Devrees, are the same crooks who will bend and twist the straight uncomfortable questions into some fairy tales and subtly warn or threat the questioner to tow the line. They are neither willing nor capable of a meaningful dialogue to explore the truth.


Kothar Inc. is an atheist capitalist with no conscience. The central product or USP of their business is “Secluded-Imam” and other services are channels of revenue generation. If they really believed, feared and loved GOD and its message (Islam) to any level or limit, they would not resort to mockery of people’s faith for their personal gain and comfort (ayyashi).

Bohra spring
Posts: 1307
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#23

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:40 am

Progticide stated the criteria of his definition of a DB

I will comment from contemporary view point

1. Do you accept the Word of Allah i.e. the Holy Quran? Yes after this point it is your ideology vs others.

2. Do you accept the mention of obedience to an authority in the Holy Quran , Surah An Nisa, Ayat 59 (Holy Quran 4:59)?

Selectively picking ayats to justify a motive is very common I think the reader needs to look at the complete context and the reason the Ayat was relayed .

58. Verily! Allah commands that you should render back the trusts to those, to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He (Allah) gives you! Truly, Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Seer.

59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad ), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

60. Have you seen those (hyprocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Taghut (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaitan (Satan) wishes to lead them far astray.

61. And when it is said to them: "Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger (Muhammad )," you (Muhammad ) see the hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad ) with aversion.

62. How then, when a catastrophe befalls them because of what their hands have sent forth, they come to you swearing by Allah, "We meant no more than goodwill and conciliation!"

63. They (hypocrites) are those of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; so turn aside from them (do not punish them) but admonish them, and speak to them an effective word (i.e. to believe in Allah, worship Him, obey Him, and be afraid of Him) to reach their innerselves.

64. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave. If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to themselves, had come to you (Muhammad ) and begged Allah's Forgiveness, and the Messenger had begged forgiveness for them: indeed, they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who accepts repentance), Most Merciful.

65. But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.

3. Do you accept that the authority so mentioned in the Holy Quran has to be available to the faithful until the Day of Judgement, in one form or another i.e. after the Prophet(SAWW) either as Wasi, or Imam or Dai?

If the above ayat is not completely relevant what else proof do you have to state that a Wasi will be nominated and an Imam will always be there to appoint a diai. Is this more of a customary practise evolved over time.

4. Do you accept that this authority has to be manifest and known to the faithful (ofcourse, otherwise how would you swear obedience to)?

Accepting a new innovated ritual distorts the Islamic ideology . There is no where mentioned in early scriptures or evidence of the purpose of Islam as intended by the Prophet Saw that this obedience had to carry over and assigned to a person claiming association to the the pioneers of our faith.

5. During Satr, when the Imam is in occultation, the Dai al Mutlaq of the time is that manifest authority? You cannot say No, because you said you believe upto 46th Dai.

So what if we say no there are literally 100s of individuals in history between Nizaris, Alawi, Dawoodi, Suleimani who claim they are the one an only diai of the Imams. Either some are right or all are fake or hallucinating. Not believing in them does not make anyone less committed to Islam.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#24

Unread post by incredible » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:25 am

humanbeing wrote:
Mkenya wrote: I have always wondered and questioned myself as to the validity and truthfulness of Imam going "gayeb". One thought is that the whole thing is a "hoi polloi" and given an aura of secrecy and cospiracy by the Kothars, Khomeinis, etc. to hoodwink the masses and make them blind followers. I would welcome your thoughts and please stick to the topic and express your views.
In light of above observation from Mkenya, I too feel the same and moreover over discussion with few sane minded, rational thinkers, they too present similar questions. Why is the All-Powerful-Imam not coming out in open ?


All the Jazz that Kothar Agents give around justifying the Imam’s seclusion is a hogwash which is clear to common sense that Imam Secluded is far more advantageous for Kothari Inc. than a Declared Imam.


Kothar Agents, be it on this forum or in Devrees, are the same crooks who will bend and twist the straight uncomfortable questions into some fairy tales and subtly warn or threat the questioner to tow the line. They are neither willing nor capable of a meaningful dialogue to explore the truth.


Kothar Inc. is an atheist capitalist with no conscience. The central product or USP of their business is “Secluded-Imam” and other services are channels of revenue generation. If they really believed, feared and loved GOD and its message (Islam) to any level or limit, they would not resort to mockery of people’s faith for their personal gain and comfort (ayyashi).
if you sumarize this whole post in one word its called :

"yazidiyat"

they did all the same.

they never believed in GOD neither had any Imaan on last prophet Muhammed(s)

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#25

Unread post by badrijanab » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:13 am

Adam wrote:@BADRIJANAB
Give documentary evidence: if our Molana Mohammed Badruddin a.q. did "NUSS-A-JALI" over your Najmuddin? Who were the witness of that "nass a jali", at which place was this "nass a jali" done and on which date?
Here is what I posted a long time ago on :
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=7769

- Syedna Mohammed Badruddin did Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin twice in public.
Pune Waaz in Moharram 1254H & Surat Moharram Waaz in 1256H
- Records of the hand written letter by Syedna Mohammed Badruddin himself proclaiming Nass on Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin "Risalah Takbeer Sakina Fateh" Page 275 - 277
- There are several letters written to Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from his Hudood including Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin and Miya Saheb Wali bhai using the words "المنصوص عليه مرار" - (He who had the proclamation of Nass done on him multiple times) "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 181-3 & "Risala Rawdate Firdaws Page 165
- 49th Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a witness to the Nass, and he has recorded it in his "Risalah Tazkerat Labeeb" Page 169


Now,
You believe there were 46 Dais, and then the ball just stopped there? No leader after that? Did the Imam come and tell you'll everything stops right now? After all it is the Imam who appointed the Du'ats, so only he can close their office. Did he come and tell you or (Ahmeq) of Udaipur?
If you believe in the concept of "Nazim", you have also openly insulted the 52nd Dai from your above post, so you've not even accepted him as a Nazim, so you don't even have a Nazim right now.
So who handles your affairs now?

Leave it.
You'll don't care about Dais or Nazims. It's just hatred that makes you blind.
Sad story.

These are some examples, there are much more.
@ Janab Adam Ji Sahazada sahib,

Your post above is akin to "Basi kadi ko ubalna".

What do you think that by repeating your failed and fake arguments above you will negate the factual status of the case? Truth neither dies nor can be mutilated. Neither you nor your 'jodidaar' Progticide were able to prove the nuss-a-jali from Batsahtul Kubra (Risala Nai) by your Najmuddin wrote over the martyrdom of Molana Syyedna Mohammad Badruddin a.q.

All your fake arguments quoted above are negated in the same webpage link that you have posted in your post above. Read all those posts carefully and you will realise neither your Ahmek Kothar nor you can paint truth as false and false as truth. When TS and MB both are unable to prove by themselves that they are Dai mutlaq appointed by nuss-a-jali then "aap kis khet ki mooli ho"?!!!

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#26

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:34 am

"aap kis khet ki mooli ho"?!!!

Sukhae huwae, banjar wallae. Yahan tagrre darakhat nahi ugte.

Mkenya
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#27

Unread post by Mkenya » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:08 am

seeker110

I like your retort. Whie I understand the second part
I do not understand the first:
Sukhae huwae, banjar wallae.
Can you or someone care to explain!

Mkenya
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#28

Unread post by Mkenya » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:50 am

A casual review of recent posts on almost all topics underlines the fact that this forum has devolved into a debate between The 'believers' and the 'non-believers'. There is a constant debate between the two groups. The consensus is that it is wishful thinking and no long-term
changes will ever be seen, at least in our lives. Kothar has entrenched itself so well in all aspects of Bohra lives. And it is continuing to tighten the noose. Nowhere in the annals of Bohra history has it ever been made mandatory to attend Muharram waez. Bohras attended waez on their own accord. They went to listen to 'autha', 'shia's significance', 'sacrifice of Panjatan Paak and Imams', etc. There were always something new that one learnt or an previous item that was expanded. That was then and now is now and it is so different. Attendees are now bored to such an extent by being constantly bombarded about frivolous 'achievements', crocodie tears from the occupier of the takht, choreographed maatam, etc. No wonder attendance has dropped and continues to drop. In East Africa Kothar through its henchmen went from door to door of Bohra businessmen and made them sign commitments to close their shops from 10am to 2pm every day. To furher enforce the rule Jamaat cards were scanned on entry and exit for verification. There are several things which are wrong with this. First, it should be very obvious to the Waezeen and his ayyans that in the real world to keep places of business of business for 10-12 days would in long term mean loosing customers and profits. Would not Kothar understand that the Wajebaat and other dues are derived and earned from the very businesses. If thaose businesses were somehow curtailed to specific hours then the obvious result would be a shortfall in cash, not only for the business-owner but by extention to the Kothar. But would Kothat listen to any such argument. Does any member of Kothat know what it takes to eek out a living in the business world where competition is severe and margins are getting slimmer. No one in Kothar knows the basic ABC of business. If they did it would be reasonable and switch the waeez times from late afternoons into evenings. It will be a win-win situation. Never in the annals of recent of whatever history have I, or anyone else, know of a meeting, symposium, waeez, majlis, etc. where attendance is enforced to an extent that it has been by Kothar. I am a single voice but I suspect and hope there are many like mine out there who would concur with me. Yet, the ones who suffer most have not even raised a squeek. Why should we go to bat for them. Kothar is a on a good pitch, their eyes are set, and they can play the whole field; Bohras on the field just run everywhere to be at their beck and call. Theoretical tactics will never work for the subdued and downtrodden. The only fire that will set them alight will be imposition more and more Wajebaat, dues, and salaams. There will be a time when Bohras will revolt on the burden of such extortion. But will they revolt! Wishful thinking.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1307
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#29

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:59 am

Why can the "poor innocent " abdes just refuse to be oppressed ! Why did they not protest enmass and dared the ayan to show and execute the consequence ...

Did kotahr point a gun or threatened...rather then calling them victims ..I would call them fools

kseeker
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: 21ST. IMAM TAYYIB'S ZUHUR

#30

Unread post by kseeker » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:52 pm

Dear Progticide and Adam,

Afzalus Salaam

Statement A: You say that it is impossible that this world can be without a rightful guide in open ( that is also what the ayat in surah-e-nisa refers to) and I completely agree with you... there is no way Allah leaves his people unattended... even in Daur-e-Fatarat..

Statement B: The Dai after 46 are not Dai al Mutlaq and have not been appointed by the Imaam. They are Nazims... This is written by the 47th Dai. 47,48,49,50.. none of them have ever claimed to be Mutlaq Dai. The false claims started from 51.. there is no way a Nazim Dai can appoint a Mutlaq Dai.. nope.. that doesn't happen....

My point: Is there a true representative out there? Yes.
Do I know who he is? No.
What do I know? the 47th Dai and beyond are not the true representatives.
Why? Cause 47th has admitted that.
Will we accept 52nd and 53rd as Dai Nazim?
Sure, why not... but first, they should stand up and say they are Nazims and not claim to be Mutlaq.

I personally do think they are Nazims... even though they have completely molested the faith, I do... cause even though they have gone to the extent of calling themselves 'a parchaai of the imam', they haven't claimed to be imaam themselves (which I can promise you, they will do soon... if not this one, then the next one.. if not him , then his son.. but someone will.. cause one will do anything to satisfy greed)... Till now, they say that Imaam Hassan is the first Imam... Imam Tayeb is 21st and rest are in hiding till Imam will reveal himself... until they say this, we will call them Nazims... cause esentially that what they are doing, carrying on the message of our faith.... the minute they stop this.. ..well that's that.

So who is the rightful leader? I honestly don't know... im sure hes out there and preaching.. but I haven't been able to find him... but that in now way means I am going to resort for 2nd best choice ( current Dai's are not even worth being called 2nd best.. but lets assume they are.. for your sake :) )

So until I find out who the right one is, I will believe till the 46th only because my books tell me for sure they are correct.. If I believe in someone I am not sure, I am bound to go astray.. just as you have....

wasalaam.