DB real Majlis v/s boring Burhanuddin sahib paper reading

[badrijanab]

When Burhanuddin sahib speaks all Abdes fall in sleep. So to keep them awaken the tool of breast-beating is incorrectly introduced. (Term "maatam" is abused by Kothar, it means "Shok sabha". The term for breast beating in Arabic is "Ladam" and head beating is "Sadam"). Making breast-beating compulsory is innovation (biddat) by Kothar.

Remember beating chest or hitting head or slapping cheeks is prohibited by rightful Dai Syyedna Molana Abde Ali Saifuddin a.q.

It is "majboori" of Kothar to push for breast-beating because when Abdes will get physical exercise of seena-peetna regularly in between the speech of Burhanuddin sahib then Abdes will not fall asleep zzzzzzz.

Compare Burhanuddin sahib boring speech which do not convey any "nasihat" and message with the mumineen of Dawoodi Bohras (Youth): http://www.byakuwait.com/index.php/muharram-2013.html

Bohra Youth mumin orator is in proper Libaas-a-anwaar: Saya, topi, full dadhi…. Subhan Allah. And the Quality of speech! Burhanuddin sahib should take tuition from Youth orators. In the Archive of this website their are Majlises of previous year - the Tulaba of Jamiya Saifiya should thoroughly go through previous year and this year majlises to really learn the Fatimi Dawat. Otherwise in Jamiya Saifiya only this is taught Tahir Saifuddin is Allah (as claimed in Chanda Bhai Gulla case) and by this token Burhanuddin sahib is son of Allah.

[seeker110]

You mean he can read? I think he performs miserably even at reading. Remember bhora /sunny riots? He doesn't go over those papers after they were written for him and delivered (large prints, right). Just winging it.

[true_bohra]

Badri you again back to get insulted.

Why dont you do some research before posting. Now if you have come, Its my duty that I should awaken you of sleep that you got in Ahmed's waaz.

If you cant take Syedna TUS as your dai, atleast respect an old man. But ahmeq taught you only ilm and no adab. And if Syedna waaz is boring then you wont find tens of thousand people there. Have brain and compare it with crowd at your waaz

You termed maatam as bid'at. How big fool are you. See the gallery tab in the link that you provided. You will get a good answer.

[dawoodibohra5253]

i have just joined this site today to know what you guys are upto and what is this site all about ...i could find only one thing that is your hatred towards sayedna and the community...you have no work other then finding out whats going wrong in bohra community and how to put them down just to take out your frustration...though i am sure you are aware how successful bohras are..can you guys tell me who you guys are and what makes you get such stupid topics to talk about...taking and example of this topic ...why do you really care if people are sleeping or listening to the bayan.???guys go and mind your business and do something better for you and your family....

[Humsafar]

dawoodibohra5253,
Welcome to the forum. You're right most of things people write here is negative about the Kothar and the clergy. Now may I request to take the next step and find out WHY. Why do people have so much bad things to say about the Kothar? The reason cannot be simple hatred, jealousy, hasad and frustration as you claim. There has to be something more, something that pains and disturbs people, something that pricks their conscience, something that tells them that things are terribly wrong with what the Kothar preaches and what it practices, something that upsets their moral balance, that frustrates them but they feel trapped and cannot do or lack the courage to do something about it. Please think about the reasons behind all this "negativity", and do not jump to hasty conclusion. If you do then you are no different from George W Bush. He dismissed anti-American sentiments as hatred against America, democracy and freedom. But it is not that he did not know the real reason, just that he had a vested interest in not acknowledging it. He was being devious and deceptive. Similarly you too have a vested interest in not finding out the real reason behind all this "negativity", that is if you do not already know it. You're being devious and deceptive.

[Humsafar]

And db5253, the problem is isn't that Bohras are sleeping through the waez, the problem is that they are sleepwalking through their lives, and the Kothar wants to keep it that way.

[dawoodibohra5253]

humasafar,
yes, there could be a reason but if you can just go through most of the forum what i can see is only hatred ,jealousy,hasad and frustration....and i do agree most of you must have gone through bad phase or might have suffered something bad due to your jammat or kothar.....but talking about sayedna and challenging them??? ..most disgusting is using abusive language is showing me no good sign,.....if you don't believe in sayedna that's your wish but that doesn't give you any right to use abusive language and talk anything just to prove your point. i would have given a thought about your situation if you guys have appreciated what sayedna has done good for the community and you guys also highlighted the negative part then i wud say you guys really have point to be proved....but not even a single topic is their to appreciate the work and efforts put on to improve the life of bohras and changes made in standards of bohra community people.....and apart from all this i know there are many loops and many money matters you can show me and many incident with regards to billions of money....but i would like to ask you one question how much you have given ????? so you should be concern about your money only not others coz others are very happy giving their money and fully satisfied so it should not bother others....
this discussion can go on ...but bottom line is you will c what you wanna c doesnt matter its right or wrong...and ofcourse it goes for me as well....but i am happy about what i am doing and that is what matter to me.

[Humsafar]

coz others are very happy giving their money and fully satisfied so it should not bother others

Two points: First, the majority do not give willingly. And second, even if they give willingly, why would the Kothar accept that money? For what? Why do priests need people's money? And that too millions and millions of it?

[true_bohra]

Badrijanab i m expecting an answer how maatam became bid'at???

[badrijanab]

Badrijanab i m expecting an answer how maatam became bid'at???

The Dawat’s book “Mosame-Bahaar” has reported on the subject of “Principles of the Dawat System” vide Para XI page 340 giving reference of a letter written by Syyedna Abde-ali Saifuddin s/o Syyedna Abdul Tayyeb Zakiuddin Saheb (Surat, 12th Shabaan-ul-Karim 1222 A. H.) to his Amils. Sayedna Saheb had given ten Baab (instructions) to his Amils regarding adhering to the Shariyat-e-Mohammadi, to be humble, polite, just, honest and accountable to Mumineen under them. In Baab 6 of the letter he had stated as under:-
“Apni majlis Rasulullah (A.S.) ni majlis, apno darbar Amirul mumineen (S.A.) no darbar, apna Moaseroon (Jamat na loko) sab na sab As’habe-Safinat ane Arbabe-Vaqar howa joiye. Etle majlis per apno roub shaamil rahe. Har aam majlis ma nahi, fakat fazil ane kamil ashra ni majliso ma hee girya ni ejazat chhe. Seena-zani (chaatee kutwoo) haram chhe. Apni seerat auwaliya ni seerat, ane apni aadat Aadate-kiram howi joiye. Koyee lamha shugule-elahi si faarig naa rehwoo joiye. Moharram ni majlis maahi saghla mumineen ni aankho ashko thi tar thai. Koyee maatha ya seena per, firqa- Asna-Asharee ni tarah hath na mare. Firqa-mazkoor na misal majlise-Husain (A.S.) maa seena zani kari beadabee naa kare.”

[true_bohra]

Again diverted the topic. You wont change haa???

you appreciated youth majlis in kuwait so much. Mashallah on their libas ul anwar and their oratory skills n all.

Now tell me that if maatam is bid'at (Nauzobillah), then why youth bohra in kuwait doing the same. Were you not there to give your hidayat and open your gyaan ka pitaara.

You praised the Waaezeen (Orator) so much. Mashallah and all. KAHI WO TUM HI TOH NAHI.

[badrijanab]

true_bohra,

The first loyalty must be with Fatimi Dawat. Rightful Dai Mutlaq Syyedna Abde Ali Saifuddin a.q. has prohibited chest-beating (chhati kootwu). Now either Youth does it or Shabab - two wrong doesn't make each other right. Both are wrong.

Kothar abuses "chhati kootwu" to keep Abdes awake while they deliver boring and unmeaning (without hidaayat) paper reading speech. Where else Youth wala's are doing this only at the end of "Bayan". So you see Youth wall are doing to express sorrow, though this is incorrect to do chhati kutwoo. But for Kothar Imam Hussain a.s. is TOOL that they abuse to siphon money and order without requirement their Abdes to do physical exercise (breast beating) to bring them back from sleeping state.

[true_bohra]

You are certainly mistaken badri,

Tens of thousand would not come just to sleep. See your state of waaz. And if you believe in Aqa e Girami Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin RA, then you should think that he also stated many abyaat on maqaam of Dua'ats.

[fearAllah]

You are certainly mistaken badri,

Tens of thousand would not come just to sleep. See your state of waaz. And if you believe in Aqa e Girami Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin RA, then you should think that he also stated many abyaat on maqaam of Dua'ats.

Tens of thousand come not because they are interested in those waaz, they come because they are significantly made to believe that by attending ashara waaaz and getting deedar of moula is great sawab, its a fools paradise!

[Bohra spring]

I attend because my wife is scared that what will happen to them if I leave, I praise Steve jobs for giving us iPhones ...May his soul get peace. Turn to silent play few games, read emails, Facebook , news .... Interrupted by purjosh Matam ......especially this year this new style of standing on knees

Weekend plans

And the food is good. I like the timings morning attend bohra majlis socialise , mingle with ladies , see who is hot share my findings with Mrs , my wife reciprocates, eat tasty food..... Some May actually think I am a pervert and fires let see the response from my fellow Abdes

Evening go to Shia majlis , this is real spiritual cleansing ,,,,so my Muharram majlis is really at night

I don't mingle because they know that a centre can have 2 separate exits

Deen and Dunia both covered

[humanbeing]

Tens of thousand would not come just to sleep.

Well not just sleep ! there are lot of other options :

Meeting friends and relatives
Fakheraa Jaman
Mobile Games
Mobile chatting with PYT (pretty young things)
Show off New Jewellery and Ridas
Compulsion due to Abde Family Members
Societal pressure of being seen around

Bohra Spring has covered most of the above list ! and one can safely apply the above to majority of abdes !

We can add one more !

Going for Hunting Safari after a 10 days of Muharram is a good refresher ! Even Sayedna recommends to mumins to for Sightseeing ( Tafree) after Ashura specially when they are doing Ashura in exotic locales( Kenya, Tanzania, Dubai, Colombo etc). I know friends and relatives who boast of their ‘phoren trip’ in guise of ashura. The happiness on their faces to have done deedar, kadambosi, ziyafat and tafree is far more greater then the purpose for which they had gone supposedly (gam-e-hussain). And these ideal abdes hold respectable “pious” positions as mullahs and sheikhs !

[true_bohra]

If moharram waaz is meant to you for doing all this then its your call. But certainly I got my answer about your standards.

@bohra spring
if Shia majlis is so spiritual then why dont you go there only. Why to attend waaz with wife's fear. Are you HENPECKED HUSBAND???

[Maqbool]

If moharram waaz is meant to you for doing all this then its your call. But certainly I got my answer about your standards.

@bohra spring
if Shia majlis is so spiritual then why dont you go there only. Why to attend waaz with wife's fear. Are you HENPECKED HUSBAND???

from the reply of BS and HB, reply to your query is clear. I don't understand why you are repeating the same again and again!

[true_bohra]

I am repeating it again and again because if you dont want to come to our waaz and you like Shia majlises then why do you come and make fun of it.

[true_bohra]

where are you badri?? ran away???

Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin RA also stated maqaam of Dua'ats in his ras'ail. Would you have anything to say about that. For the same Dai, you saying that his Waaz is boring.

[zinger]

True Bohra bhai, what HB and BS have done is basically shown their true neeyat.

Everything that they have stated is basically what they do. Atleast BS was man enough to admit he does it for these reasons.

they have to eventually live with themselves. If they are ok with it, we need not get ruffled about it

[محمد]

it is obvious no bohri understand real message of karbala, because if they did they would never silently let kothar oppress them from ages and ages.

show me a single bohri guy who is happy paying lots of money every year to kothaar for getting nothing in back, most are "HENPACKED" husbands and I am sure none has balls to admit it.

[true_bohra]

ya thats why i told him, go to shia majlises if you like that.

[Bohra spring]

TB yes I go to both but don't for once think I eat free food...I make sure I pay for it somehow at both venues

You question my standards ...well those are it yes I have said it loud and clear

Now henpecked husband ...how many real men are not.....yes I am a ladies man...happy hope sweet heart women out there reading are happier ....you know I am full blooded western husband ....let them dominate the affairs and I dominate where it counts ...if you spend too much time dominating at the wrong place at the wrong time ..you will be flat when it is most needed zinger thanks for the complements

Why do you have issue if I attend both Shia and Sunni and compare, by the way I pray jumma with ahlul Sunnah both Shia and Sunni know I attend both and none have made it an issue...Bohra are the only one who want exclusivity ..do you feel threatened

[true_bohra]

I do not have problem for you attend Shia Majlises. I said you can go there, we are nobody to stop but atleast do not make fun of Bohra Majlises. If you do not understand bohra majlises its better u dont come instead of coming and playing games and all and making fun of it.

This is not a personal remark to you for your activities but do not make fun of majlises where zikr Husain AS is done.

[humanbeing]

Oh !! there are many pious, holier than thou souls out here ! biggest mockery of Imam hussain’z zikr is made by kothar themselves. Muharram Waaz and Incessant Maatam are big examples.

They have made Imam Hussain’s shahadat into some concluding affair. Look around at your own abde brothers and sisters. How and what they perceive Ashura as. Meaning of gam-e-hussain and matam are so much mutated that, abdes consider it as sin – washing / heaven-grabbing activity, and 10 days of ashura as lavish feasting and discounted tour, rather then better themselves with the real message of courage, patience and compassion.


Kothar has stooped to such low levels of hypcorisy, that its repulsive to tolerate them speak on Imam hussain and Ahlul bait. They have reduced ashura or any other religious event into self glorifying opportunity and money spinning fun fair.

[zinger]

let me assure you, and i speak from personal experienece, the kothar may have, i wont deny it, but for the simple Dawoodi Bohra mumineen and mumeenaat, its is still of utmost importance.

what you guys are saying here probably doesnt hurt the kothar, but it does offend the simple us, the common folk

[true_bohra]

Guys one more thing to correct,

It is Syedna's waaz and not kothar's. So do not involve kothar into it. And whatsoever views you have on kothar, keep it away with that of Syedna TUS

[Bohra spring]

Who appointed the members of the Kothar...whose raza...

They are one and the same ...it is your blind faith that you are pretending that only good radiates from the office of the diai..remember the statement nothing happens without his knowledge or approval

[JC]

This is so naive of abdes that they 'believe' Dai and Kothar are different; they are two sides of a coin.

When something good happens to abdes they say 'Maula Ni Dua Chay' and when something goes wrong the 'blame' is squaarely put on God..!!! For a true believer 'everything' is from God and God only. Islam has given the concepts of Shukr and Sabr ......... we thank God for all good and be patient when something goes wrong as God's wisdom sees no boundaries. Maula's dua or budua cannot do anything; that is irrelevant.