Although i recognize how incorrigible you are it is always worth a try.Sabar wrote:Do not look towards the act of beheading itself but rather to what it symbolises. You might be asking yourself why do people perform just acts in front of the world or why is this gruesome act afforded such barbarity and why do men partake in to so enthusiastically?
The short and all encompassing answer is simple: Ta’at. If one cannot commit such a cowardly act then how would you expect anyone to defend your faith?……….lets try another one
Ah actually there are certain parameters to be met before beheading someone outside the setting of war. Also Ta'at in this context is uncompromisable as it is a directive from Allah Ta'ala. What is being done by terrorists is unquestionably wrong precisely because they lack Haq (this i do not wish to debate upon as it as another matter entirely). Comparing this act to roti making is a fallacy.
Roti making and its significance on the other hand depends on your Aqeeda. It is not faraz but it is also a directive from Aqa Moula and his happiness.
Do not look towards the act of shouting itself but rather to what it symbolises. You might be asking yourself why does MS himself performs this act in front of so many mumineen during waaz in masjid or why this blatant act of anger and frustration affords such outbursts and why do men listen to it so intently?
The short and all encompassing answer is simple:Ta'at. If one cannot instil fear in ones followers then how would you expect anyone to follow and love you?…………..one more
A very poor choice of words. Aqa Moula is a great orator and using such base words such as 'shouting' is unsuitable.
I dont know why you have genralized Aqa Moulas bayaans like this. For example in Ashara Mubarakah Moulana would do zikr of Dushmano but 15 minutes out of 3 hours does not represent his entire discourse. Also when speaking about, for example, Saani and his Zulm on Moulatena Fatema who would not feel righteous anger? It is a great skill to emotionally connect with you audience.
Also if your father and mother dont scold you for misbehaving then who will?
Although i agree that Aqa Moula does in fact do two things: Give Bisharat and do Inzaar. Exactly as Rasullah SAW and Ameerul Mumineen AS all the Aimmat Tahereen AS and Duat Mutlaqeen RA have done.
Do not look towards the act of cursing and demonising your Mazoon but rather to what it symbolises. You might be asking yourself why did MS and company themselves perform this act secretly and now openly in front of so many people or why this blatant act of jealously and greed afforded such wickedness?
The short and all encompassing answer is simple; Ta’at…the total lack of it! No Ta’at for Burhanuddin aqa’s amal, teachings and Mazoon!
Its actually kind of amazing how you manage to drag any discussion to those points where it is impossible to convince conclusively against. It also shows a little insecurity, if you cannot focus soley on the topic at hand-Roti making and its merits- then you derail it entirely. Again I do not wish to go off on this tangent, maybe later as Im sure it will crop up again somewhere.
I loved how you paraphrased MS' bayaans and roti exhibitions. Allah has given you a brain, use it, don’t abuse it!
There is a lot I can say about the wisdom of following Aqa Moula and his bayaans but I feel it would be wasteful and inappropriate on this forum. I did indeed paraphrase Aqa Moula's bayan and I would like to compare learning and extrapolating from them as akin to learning and extrapolating from the Kalaam of all our Awliyaullah. If you dont believe in the importance of their bayaans then me telling you that using your brain IS following them would fall on deaf ears. صم بكم عمي...
Future of Dawoodi Bohras
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
zinger wrote: Hussain bhai, i extend a very warm welcome to you on the site.
you will notice i have put a LIKE on your post. my reason for doing that is 2 fold
1. it is refreshing to see an intelligent and humble poster after a long time. we have been plagued with some complete fools from our side of late
2. i respect the passion with which you have defended your posts and yet mantained the decorum that one expects from a mumineen
that said, i dont actually agree with some points of your post. let me point them out to you
Please do tell me what this symbolises.
I have listed what i think it symbolizes right below this paragraph.
Really??? i used to follow all directives and farmans that used to come. but over time, i started to realise the futility of it all. that is when i started to realise that some, not all mind you, do not make much sense. No one has ever grumbled about giving waajebaat. what we do grumble about is how we are forced to pay amounts that are either not acceptable or not possible to pay. this was never the case in the time of Burhanuddin Maula. he never said "hajji waajebaat aapo, hajji waajebaato aapo". it was always give what you can. it was only in the last 4 years that this started.
Let me list a few famous farmans:
1. Nazafat: Is this really that hard to follow?
2. Refraining from moharramat: Its just our deen nothing more nothing less.
3. Planting Trees: Who isnt encouraging this today?
4. Qardan Hasana: It is explicity mentioned in the Quran MANY times, why would anyone have a problem with it? Although so is Riba and its prohibitence but many people still atempt to debate the validity of Moulas directive.
Regarding wajebaat you are mistaken. It is Muqaddas Moula's vision and those of his predecessors that mumineen fullfill their obligations. I dont wish to derail the topic at hand so maybe we can discuss this later.
Im sure ive missed some, how about you list any other farmans of which you cant seem to grasp the significance of?
Again, while i agree with all that you say here, i have a problem with 2 things in your point
1. Why must you drag Ameerul Mumineen A.S. and his last meal into this? you know that this a weakness for all Dawoodi Bohras, that we will do anything in the name of Panjatan Paak and are you trying to exploit this weakness of ours??
Firstly it does not make my statement any less true. Also I dont know why you refer to our Mohabbat as a weakness? I understand what you mean by it but it is still a strange choice of words. I am just trying to point out the significance of the simple roti and how better than to show its relation to Ali Ameerul Mumineen himself?
2. I completely agree with all that you said, i repeat it once again so there is no confusion, BUT... BUT BUT BUT... why make it into a competition???? that makes it more comical than anything else. you want to add the element of social equality, why not do this instead... every sunday, groups of men should be called as volunteers to makes rotis and these should be distributed to poor homes, since the FMB thaali does not come on Sunday. wouldnt this make more sense? when the outcome is social service in its truest sense and not winning a competition, that is when the reality shall become visible
A good suggestion but this is completely dependent upon different Jamaats and how they operate. Just the other day i got an email about the new FMB website and they mentioned sending suggestions such as what you recommend.
Regarding the competitions you are looking too much into it. Why cant people organize a competition about a skill valued by Aqa Moula? Its not as serious as you make it out to be but instead a fun activity organised by the community. Why do you find it comical? Do you regard making food as a feminine activity? Is it not masculine enough? It is a farmaan directed towards mumenaat but is it so strange that even mumineen mardo want to participate in this activity of which Aqa Moula has expressed such happiness at?
Maybe you must feel bombarded by all this concentrated news about Roti competitions but it is not the only wheel in motion. You might be erroneously thinking that everyone has dropped everything for roti making but that is not the case. There are many competitions organised such as Quran Tilawat and hifz but they just arent in the limelight right now. Afterall Madrasah regularly host such competetions for children.
i speak for myself when i say this... i am NOT mocking it. i am getting angry with the way this is being carried out. did we have any such nonsense in the time of Burhanuddin Maula RA???
What I expreased above answers this I hope.
Why would you call it nonsense?
i swear to you hussainbhai, the day that every tom dick and harry of the kothar and Qasr E Aali and Bait E Zainee and each and every person or Saify Mahal does this, AND... AND AND AND... u really make this into a social cause and not a frigging competition, i shall be the first one to sign up and you can take these words of mine to the bank
A very childish notion of 'if he doesnt then i wont'. It is a good deed (you feed someone with it)- dont wait for everyone to do it first. Isnt it enough that Moula performs the deed himself in front of thousands?
No one is forcing anyone to participate in the competitions. No one is forcing men to do it. They are simply a way to showcase the great mohabbat and eagerness mumineen have to carry out any farmaan from Aqa Moula.
Being a part of FMB speaks for itself.
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
hussainmoiz wrote:zinger wrote: Hussain bhai, i extend a very warm welcome to you on the site. HAVE PUT MY REPLIES IN UPPER CASE SO AS TO DISTINGUISH THEM
you will notice i have put a LIKE on your post. my reason for doing that is 2 fold
1. it is refreshing to see an intelligent and humble poster after a long time. we have been plagued with some complete fools from our side of late
2. i respect the passion with which you have defended your posts and yet mantained the decorum that one expects from a mumineen
that said, i dont actually agree with some points of your post. let me point them out to you
Please do tell me what this symbolises.
I have listed what i think it symbolizes right below this paragraph.
Really??? i used to follow all directives and farmans that used to come. but over time, i started to realise the futility of it all. that is when i started to realise that some, not all mind you, do not make much sense. No one has ever grumbled about giving waajebaat. what we do grumble about is how we are forced to pay amounts that are either not acceptable or not possible to pay. this was never the case in the time of Burhanuddin Maula. he never said "hajji waajebaat aapo, hajji waajebaato aapo". it was always give what you can. it was only in the last 4 years that this started.
Let me list a few famous farmans:
1. Nazafat: Is this really that hard to follow? I AM SORRY BUT I AM NOT SO WELL VERSED IN OUR TERMINOLOGY. COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THIS MEANS?
2. Refraining from moharramat: Its just our deen nothing more nothing less. SAME AS ABOVE?
3. Planting Trees: Who isnt encouraging this today? I NEVER BROUGHT THIS UP, NOR HAVE I QUESTIONED THE SAVE THE SPARROW. I AM VERY MUCH QUESTIONING THE FMB, BUT THAT IS ANOTHER POINT FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION. I AM QUESTIONING THE ABSURDITY OF ZIAFATS IN A POOL BUT AGAIN THIS IS A POINT FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION SOME OTHER DAY. I AM TALKING ABOUT WOMEN NOT WORKING AND NOT GETTING AN EDUCATION OF CHOICE AND SITTING IN ONE CORNER OF THE HOME BUT AGAIN, SOME OTHER PLACE SOME OTHER TIME. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE ABUSES SHELLED OUT BY EVERYONE ON THE EX-MAZUN, SOMETHING WHICH WAS VERY CLEAR SURROGATE ABUSING BY MUFADDAL MAULA, BUT AGAIN, SOME OTHER TIME
4. Qardan Hasana: It is explicity mentioned in the Quran MANY times, why would anyone have a problem with it? Although so is Riba and its prohibitence but many people still atempt to debate the validity of Moulas directive. I AM NOT AGAINST GIVING IT, I AM AGAINST ASKING FOR IT IN EVERY SINGLE FRIDAY AND LOOKING STRANGELY AT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT CONTRIBUTE
Regarding wajebaat you are mistaken. It is Muqaddas Moula's vision and those of his predecessors that mumineen fullfill their obligations. I dont wish to derail the topic at hand so maybe we can discuss this later. IT WAS MUQADDAAS MOULA'S VISION, BUT IT WAS NEVER A MONSTER THE WAY IT HAS BECOME NOW, BUT SURE, WE CAN DISCUSS THIS LATER
Im sure ive missed some, how about you list any other farmans of which you cant seem to grasp the significance of?
Again, while i agree with all that you say here, i have a problem with 2 things in your point
1. Why must you drag Ameerul Mumineen A.S. and his last meal into this? you know that this a weakness for all Dawoodi Bohras, that we will do anything in the name of Panjatan Paak and are you trying to exploit this weakness of ours??
Firstly it does not make my statement any less true. Also I dont know why you refer to our Mohabbat as a weakness? I understand what you mean by it but it is still a strange choice of words. IT IS NOT A STRANGE CHOICE OF WORDS. WHAT IM SAYING, SO THAT THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING, IS THAT PANJATAN PAK ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE HEART OF EVERY DAWOODI BOHRA AND HENCE, USING THEM TO PROVE A POINT IS PLAYING WITH OUR WEAKNESS I am just trying to point out the significance of the simple roti and how better than to show its relation to Ali Ameerul Mumineen himself? I DISAGREE WITH YOU HERE. IT IS NOT POINTING OUT A SIGNIFICANCE BUT HIDING BEHIND AN EXAMPLE, AS AN EXCUSE. SORRY BUT IT DOES NOT FLY WITH ME
2. I completely agree with all that you said, i repeat it once again so there is no confusion, BUT... BUT BUT BUT... why make it into a competition???? that makes it more comical than anything else. you want to add the element of social equality, why not do this instead... every sunday, groups of men should be called as volunteers to makes rotis and these should be distributed to poor homes, since the FMB thaali does not come on Sunday. wouldnt this make more sense? when the outcome is social service in its truest sense and not winning a competition, that is when the reality shall become visible
A good suggestion but this is completely dependent upon different Jamaats and how they operate. Just the other day i got an email about the new FMB website and they mentioned sending suggestions such as what you recommend. AGAIN, IM SORRY BUT YOU CANNOT PLAY THAT CARD. EVERY 'COMPETITION' IS PRESIDED OVER AND JUDGED EITHER BY AN AAMIL OR SOMEONE FROM THE KOTHAR. IT TAKES THEM EXACTLY 10 SECONDS TO STOP THIS NONSENSE AND GET SERIOUS, DONT MAKE A MOCKERY OF OUR FARMAAN" WILL THEY DO IT?
Regarding the competitions you are looking too much into it. Why cant people organize a competition about a skill valued by Aqa Moula? Its not as serious as you make it out to be but instead a fun activity organised by the community. Why do you find it comical? I DONT FIND THE ACT OF MAKING ROTI COMICAL, I FIND ARRANGING COMPETITIONS AROUND IT ABSUED Do you regard making food as a feminine activity? Is it not masculine enough? I HAVE ALREADY EXPRESSED MY VIEW ON THIS. I COOK MYSELF, FYI It is a farmaan directed towards mumenaat but is it so strange that even mumineen mardo want to participate in this activity of which Aqa Moula has expressed such happiness at ? PARTICIPATE, YES, BUT MAKE IT INTO A COMPETITION???
Maybe you must feel bombarded by all this concentrated news about Roti competitions but it is not the only wheel in motion. You might be erroneously thinking that everyone has dropped everything for roti making but that is not the case. There are many competitions organised such as Quran Tilawat and hifz but they just arent in the limelight right now. Afterall Madrasah regularly host such competetions for children. AGREED BUT IF YOU THINK MY IMAAN HAS BEEN CORRUPTED BY THE BOMBARDMENT, THEN YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. IF YOU WERE TO FOLLOW MY PROGRESS HERE, I WAS JUST LIKE YOU, BUT OVER TIME, I REALISED THAT THERE ARE MANY WRONGS IN OUR COMMUNITY. I AND A GROUP OF LIKE-MINDED FRIENDS IN MY JAMAAT ARE SLOWLY BUT STEADILY TRYING TO BRING CHANGE, STAYING WITHIN THE SYSTEM, I REFUSE TO GO OUT OF IT AND THEN HURL STONES
i speak for myself when i say this... i am NOT mocking it. i am getting angry with the way this is being carried out. did we have any such nonsense in the time of Burhanuddin Maula RA???
What I expreased above answers this I hope. Why would you call it nonsense? I HOPE I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS
i swear to you hussainbhai, the day that every tom dick and harry of the kothar and Qasr E Aali and Bait E Zainee and each and every person or Saify Mahal does this, AND... AND AND AND... u really make this into a social cause and not a frigging competition, i shall be the first one to sign up and you can take these words of mine to the bank
A very childish notion of 'if he doesnt then i wont'. It is a good deed (you feed someone with it)- dont wait for everyone to do it first. Isnt it enough that Moula performs the deed himself in front of thousands? AGAIN, A CLASSIC CASE OF PLAYING WITH OUR EMOTIONS. BUT IM SORRY, IT WILL NOT WORK WITH ME ANYMORE
No one is forcing anyone to participate in the competitions. No one is forcing men to do it. They are simply a way to showcase the great mohabbat and eagerness mumineen have to carry out any farmaan from Aqa Moula. AGREED. ALTHOUGH I THINK THERE CAN BE MORE SENSIBLE WAYS TOO, FOR ONE, LIVING UPTO THE VISION AND THE PATH THAT BURHANUDDIN MAULA HAD TAKEN US ON
Being a part of FMB speaks for itself.
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Now that is some nice food.
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
After facing flak for reducing men into zombies, Muffy's PR team is now in damage control mode trying to cover up its Roti circus by introducing Women's competitions !!
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
You are correct. It looks like the women were being left out. They will soon move to making a video of these competitions to be shown at a masjid/markaz at some opportune time. It will be like the Gilaaf placing video. After this the zombies will be "Dead Roti Making Adbes Walking"ghulam muhammed wrote:After facing flak for reducing men into zombies, Muffy's PR team is now in damage control mode trying to cover up its Roti circus by introducing Women's competitions !!
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Let me correct you...it will be "Brain Dead Roti Making Abdes Walking"
Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Future of Dawoodi Bohras?
1. Roti making zombies
2. Mud eating zombies
3. Chest beating zombies
4. Wild beard growing zombies
5. Zombies with STD*
6. Marble kissing zombies
7. "Rova jevu munh" doing zombies
8. Zombies whose skin is useful only to make jooties for their malik
9. Washed out brain zombies#
10. onwards... Readers are invited to add to the list.
Is there still scope for going down?
* STD is a pun, both are transmitted.
# Once upon a time Abdes were considered brainwashed, however a century of this washing has washed out all traces of it.
1. Roti making zombies
2. Mud eating zombies
3. Chest beating zombies
4. Wild beard growing zombies
5. Zombies with STD*
6. Marble kissing zombies
7. "Rova jevu munh" doing zombies
8. Zombies whose skin is useful only to make jooties for their malik
9. Washed out brain zombies#
10. onwards... Readers are invited to add to the list.
Is there still scope for going down?
* STD is a pun, both are transmitted.
# Once upon a time Abdes were considered brainwashed, however a century of this washing has washed out all traces of it.
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
This is victory of silliness over sanity.
The turning point is I no longer feel embarrassed or angry or try to right the wrong , just amazed like a tourist.
on one side SKQ and reformists are separately trying to raise the intellect, while on the other side sms is placing a sinker to take people to the bottom
looks like sinker is winning ...that is a civilisation challenge surprise that masses are happy to sink
The turning point is I no longer feel embarrassed or angry or try to right the wrong , just amazed like a tourist.
on one side SKQ and reformists are separately trying to raise the intellect, while on the other side sms is placing a sinker to take people to the bottom
looks like sinker is winning ...that is a civilisation challenge surprise that masses are happy to sink
Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Why is Muffadal Moula TUS holding rolling pins with Rumaal ? On one hand he says its a PAAK kaam and now he hold rolling pins with Rumaal. Even if it get smeared with Aata he is still PAAK and Wudu is kayam.
If roti making is so unhygienic why advice followers, how can you make roti this way with handkerchief. If moulatena Fatema could do it so can he !!!
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
According to Mufaddali logic only Baba Ramdev's body is PAAK which can be hugged without any cloth in between, even mumineens are NAAPAK as they also must have a Rumal in between whilst doing talaqqi !!allbird wrote:Why is Muffadal Moula TUS holding rolling pins with Rumaal ? On one hand he says its a PAAK kaam and now he hold rolling pins with Rumaal. Even if it get smeared with Aata he is still PAAK and Wudu is kayam.
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
such photos is real scary stuff. It is more like Hitler re born. every step and action is very methodically calculated by this family and their corrupt muffy to make certain they always have a following of some scared brain dead abdes. They have really stilled fear into these poor souls. I just pray and hope these mumineen one day see the light and be free of this bondage.
Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Awww how sweet, my 7th post and I have already been given a label of being incorrigible and that on a site for reform, the level of your hypocrisy amazes me. Firstly the topic at hand is ‘Future of Dawoodi Bohras’ with your vast knowledge in symbolisms, I am surprise to read you missed the point of my post (or maybe you did, and you thought you were making good arguments against them). You can not keep on using generic words such as Ta’at, Mohabbat, Aqeeda etc….(ask to see MS’ marketing book for more) to justify the policies and actions of your leader, specially those with no religious significants. Apart from ta'at you went on to use many heart warming phrases to symbolise the art of roti making, but again the same genericness of your justifications can be use for cooking Jamaan in general.……. hold on, thats exactly what Burhanuddin aqa and previous duaats advised us, ghar nu jamaan jamo (to eat home cooked food), not just limited to rotis. The last acts of Molatena Fatema AS was to pohta na hath si jamaan pkawu ane Husan AS ane Hussein AS ni jamaru, it is through both these acts one can gain a wealth of knowledge on how to live ones life particularly on raising children with love and care, it seems MS have completely missed the point and has become fixated on an indian subcontinent flatbread, the billion dollar question is why?? with rotis being around for centuries, did no other imam or duat realise that we could all be missing Molatena Fatema AS ni shafaat, it took a school drop out who wasn’t even a dai when he came out with roti making to see things, (so important its now implemented in shaadi ni rasaam) that not even burhannudin aqa and other duats could see.hussainmoiz wrote: Although i recognize how incorrigible you are it is always worth a try.
In the process to become roti king he has managed to twist history so much that the importance of Molatena Fatema AS ni zikar is going to be all but forgotten and replaced but his unnatural love for rotis. Its a bleak future when people can’t differentiate between Haq and BS (beautifully structured) propaganda.
Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
15mins accounts to over 10% of ‘waaz’ (excluding marsiyah and mataam) of screaming lanaat and berating burhanudin aqa’s mazoon.hussainmoiz wrote: I dont know why you have genralized Aqa Moulas bayaans like this. For example in Ashara Mubarakah Moulana would do zikr of Dushmano but 15 minutes out of 3 hours does not represent his entire discourse. Also when speaking about, for example, Saani and his Zulm on Moulatena Fatema who would not feel righteous anger? It is a great skill to emotionally connect with you audience.
Also if your father and mother dont scold you for misbehaving then who will?
15mins X 10days = over 2.5 hours!!! (excluding marsiyah and mataam) of ‘scolding’. I think I've figured out why people can’t hear the truth, they've been deafened by MS’ scolding.
Question: MS started scolding before he became your Dai, does that mean you had 3 sets of parents? how do you explain that to your kids?
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Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
Excellent, loved this post. I think same to same !! ... I could not put these exact thoughts into words the way you have done sabar !Sabar wrote:You can not keep on using generic words such as Ta’at, Mohabbat, Aqeeda etc….(ask to see MS’ marketing book for more) to justify the policies and actions of your leader, specially those with no religious significants. Apart from ta'at you went on to use many heart warming phrases to symbolise the art of roti making, but again the same genericness of your justifications can be use for cooking Jamaan in general.……. hold on, thats exactly what Burhanuddin aqa and previous duaats advised us, ghar nu jamaan jamo (to eat home cooked food), not just limited to rotis. The last acts of Molatena Fatema AS was to pohta na hath si jamaan pkawu ane Husan AS ane Hussein AS ni jamaru, it is through both these acts one can gain a wealth of knowledge on how to live ones life particularly on raising children with love and care, it seems MS have completely missed the point and has become fixated on an indian subcontinent flatbread, the billion dollar question is why?? with rotis being around for centuries, did no other imam or duat realise that we could all be missing Molatena Fatema AS ni shafaat, it took a school drop out who wasn’t even a dai when he came out with roti making to see things, (so important its now implemented in shaadi ni rasaam) that not even burhannudin aqa and other duats could see.
In the process to become roti king he has managed to twist history so much that the importance of Molatena Fatema AS ni zikar is going to be all but forgotten and replaced but his unnatural love for rotis. Its a bleak future when people can’t differentiate between Haq and BS (beautifully structured) propaganda.
Re: Future of Dawoodi Bohras
We keep on reading Fatema As made roti. now can you research a d explain whether roti or bread was common amongst the Medina culture at that time .?
Did Farina AS ever make roti in her life ?
Did Farina AS ever make roti in her life ?
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