Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fortress

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alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#31

Unread post by alam » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:35 pm

Humsafar wrote:[It is not as easy as it seems to come back, they have to deal with shame, loss of face - and perhaps also the same pulls and pressures that caused them to leave in the first place. This is a complex emotional and moral matter, there cannot be clear cut answers.
There, Humsafarbhai, you said it well. This social conditioning - oppressive as it is, explains why the Establishment has had a stronghold on Maintaining the Status Quo over the behavior of its constituents.

Any change, resistance or reform will require a superhuman effort on every single individual, at a Micro-level, to resist this automatic response and automatic habit of blindly obeying and following some Aamil, or "Raza naa Saheb" or whoever, and start listening to their own better sense of judgement and that little voice that is whispering or shouting to them to Resist.

That little voice, whether it whispers or shouts, is indeed the voice of conscience - and nobody can take that away from anyone.

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#32

Unread post by Ozdundee » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:51 pm

On Dec 31st, Mufaddal had relished ziyafat at 10 p.m. and left at 11:30 by a chartered plane.
That's not the last , he will be back with more vengeance. Place and time are unpredictable. Repair the damage if any and refill the armaments. Check other fortresses are strong . Don't be complacent. Be one step ahead!

Overall Udapiur performed better than expected, I was worried they could have lost a few souls to the abdes.
I am impressed to read that reformists have also been silently building a legal case against the oppressive regime in lawful manner.

Thank Allah that we did not loose the capital of reform , I have more respect for udapiur then I did . If by any chance they succeeded we would have a catastrophic collapse of the reform movement with global consequences , a bolden kothar. Doomsday scenario. So while we smile in glory of success we prepare for the next onslaught.

Humsafar
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#33

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:23 pm

DB-Londoner,

Nobody can be like Asghar Ali Engineer, nor do they have to be. We all have our qualities, aptitudes and personal histories that shape us. In the context of this movement, we all should contribute the best we can according to our abilities. The point is what can you and I can bring to the table. Nit-picking on grammar, writing style and presumed character flaw of others is petty if not outright ridiculous. Look at the enormity of problem we face and look at what you are really concerned with.

Insaf saheb has devoted his life to this cause, he may not be the rockstar scholar like Engineer saheb but his contribution is no less important. He has been more intimately and intricately involved in the reform movement than Engineer saheb. Among other things, he has been publishing the Bohra Chronicle for the past 40 years, exposing the Kothar and its shenanigans with proofs and documents. He is doing it with single-minded devotion and courage, while living in the lion's den, so to speak. Needless to say, the Chronicle is banned. The Kothar fears him more than anyone else, because he has contacts inside and is privy to inside information. Insaf saheb knows the pulse of the Bohras like nobody else, so when he says something there is substance to it. He has seen enough of Bohras and their timidity in his long life and he doesn't have to do anything to "impress" them.

Regarding Udaipur:

Here's the audio, reporting on Muffadal's "last sermon" in Udaipur:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 60#p120769

The two sides had uneasy relationship for past so many years, as baraat was loosely applied and split families and friends could meet and talk. Now with the new fatwa all that might be over, hence greater alienation.

No we do not want reconciliation per se. We want our grievances addressed and applied to the whole community, and not just to Udaipur jamat. We do not want solution just for ourselves. The Kothar wants us to cut a private deal with Udaipur reformists - just like they did with 143 renegades. But that is not going to happen.

There is already a mountain of proof about the bad things being perpetrated by the Kothar. Every day the proofs are mounting under DBs very noses. It is staring them in their faces and they can't see them. Bohras don't need more proof to organise and act. What they need is spunk. The problem is that their conscience is sleeping. Proof has not awakened them in the past, and it is not going to wake them now.

bohra_manus
Posts: 229
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#34

Unread post by bohra_manus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:11 pm

Very well said Humsafar Bhai.
Kudos to Insaaf Saheb for his dedication to the Reformist cause.

zinger
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#35

Unread post by zinger » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:40 am

Humsafar wrote:
DB-Londoner wrote: I see, very interesting... do you know why these 143 decided to go back? What did the Kothar use to entice them all those years ago?
Maybe with cash, status, visas to Kuwait, Dubai who knows. Maybe they were spooked about their future outside the community. Any number of reason could have worked. But it is still a puzzle why Ghulam Hussain betrayed us. Most of us have met him after the fact but he just doesn't talk.
It's been 15 years now, why didn't they start itching to come back after 15 days?
What has changed now that has got them all itchy lol? Weren't they itching before?
As you have a thriving Reformist Jamaat in Udaipur, what is holding them back from leaving and re-joining you guys?
Looks like they are getting fed up with the restrictions and anti-Islamic ways of the Dawat. It is not as easy as it seems to come back, they have to deal with shame, loss of face - and perhaps also the same pulls and pressures that caused them to leave in the first place. This is a complex emotional and moral matter, there cannot be clear cut answers.
Humsafar bhai,

i have a couple of questions for you.

You said "Maybe with cash, status, visas to Kuwait, Dubai who knows.". Really? you think so? You think that the Reformists imaan is bikau (open to buy/sell)? Wasnt that a trait that you attributed to us Dawoodi Bohras? 137 isnt a small number like maybe 5 or 10, its a pretty significant numbers. 137 people is almost like 35 families

You then said "But it is still a puzzle why Ghulam Hussain betrayed us. Most of us have met him after the fact but he just doesn't talk". I am also extremely curious why your leader would desert you like this. Was he perhaps threatened? I think you guys really need to dig deeper to figure it out. i am of the opinion that Kothar had done some hanky-panky, but that is something that you guys need to figure out

You said "It is not as easy as it seems to come back, they have to deal with shame, loss of face - and perhaps also the same pulls and pressures that caused them to leave in the first place.". Honestly, IMHO, i think if it was so easy for them to move over in the first place, it should be just as easy for them to come back. Shame and loss of face from whom? The Dawoodi Bohra community will definitely try to hold them back. Then will they face loss of face from the reformist community? Again, shouldnt you welcome them back with open arms, the prodigal son returning and all??? Wouldnt that be an awesome victory for you guys to shove it in the face of the Kothar and rub their noses in?

And yeah, if they were dissatisfied, they should have come back in 2 or 3 years. why wait for 15? They always knew what they were getting into even then? Now... if they went over to the other side in promise of something in return... well they were... a) foolish to believe that the kothar would reward them and b) sold their souls, dont you think?

again, IMHO, these guys who shifted over were neither loyal to the reformist cause nor are they aligned to the Dawoodi Bohra faith. if they want to come back, by all means, you must accept them back as they are, but i would never trust them to not do a "palti" again

Humsafar
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#36

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:17 am

zinger wrote:You said "Maybe with cash, status, visas to Kuwait, Dubai who knows.". Really? you think so? You think that the Reformists imaan is bikau (open to buy/sell)? Wasnt that a trait that you attributed to us Dawoodi Bohras? 137 isnt a small number like maybe 5 or 10, its a pretty significant numbers. 137 people is almost like 35 families
Anyone's imaan can be bikau, reformists have same weakness and failings as any other human. Who knows what goes on in the human heart, what motivates people to cross sides, change allegiances. Your guess is as good as mine. The figure is 143. For us even 1 is a significant number. But we tend to see at as a good riddance. After that exodus reformists in Udaipur have become more committed and focused. Hence the utter failure of Muffadal saheb this time around.
zinger wrote:You then said "But it is still a puzzle why Ghulam Hussain betrayed us. Most of us have met him after the fact but he just doesn't talk". I am also extremely curious why your leader would desert you like this. Was he perhaps threatened? I think you guys really need to dig deeper to figure it out. i am of the opinion that Kothar had done some hanky-panky, but that is something that you guys need to figure out
It is speculated that all kinds of pressures were brought upon him. He was very popular and people sort of had blind faith in him. He thought if he went reformists will follow him blindly. But that did not happen. He miscalculated, big time.
zinger wrote:You said "It is not as easy as it seems to come back, they have to deal with shame, loss of face - and perhaps also the same pulls and pressures that caused them to leave in the first place.". Honestly, IMHO, i think if it was so easy for them to move over in the first place, it should be just as easy for them to come back. Shame and loss of face from whom? The Dawoodi Bohra community will definitely try to hold them back. Then will they face loss of face from the reformist community? Again, shouldnt you welcome them back with open arms, the prodigal son returning and all??? Wouldnt that be an awesome victory for you guys to shove it in the face of the Kothar and rub their noses in?
Don't you think there is shame in wanting to return to the group which you abandoned and dissed? Yes, they are always welcome.
zinger wrote:And yeah, if they were dissatisfied, they should have come back in 2 or 3 years. why wait for 15? They always knew what they were getting into even then? Now... if they went over to the other side in promise of something in return... well they were... a) foolish to believe that the kothar would reward them and b) sold their souls, dont you think?
Why 15 years, only they can answer. a) and b) being exactly the reasons for shame and loss of face.
zinger wrote:again, IMHO, these guys who shifted over were neither loyal to the reformist cause nor are they aligned to the Dawoodi Bohra faith. if they want to come back, by all means, you must accept them back as they are, but i would never trust them to not do a "palti" again
Right, they will be welcomed but not trusted.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#37

Unread post by alam » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:20 pm

Humsafar wrote:
There is already a mountain of proof about the bad things being perpetrated by the Kothar. Every day the proofs are mounting under DBs very noses. It is staring them in their faces and they can't see them. Bohras don't need more proof to organise and act. What they need is spunk. The problem is that their conscience is sleeping. Proof has not awakened them in the past, and it is not going to wake them now.
Humsafarbhai: Please Elaborate on "spunk". You may have a unique perspective.

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#38

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:51 pm

Courage, guts, daring, backbone...

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#39

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:05 pm

true_bohra wrote: Really Aaliqadar Maula is copying Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA. I bet he does not have to because we get to see Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA in him by default. And please get some intellectual khabris instead of what you have now who tell you that he have pics of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA from different angles.
One thing is sure that the 52nd Dai definitely copies his father :-

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/7/3g7p.jpg[/img]

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... 5/nkwt.jpg[/img]

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... 1/x0wx.jpg[/img]

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... 4/3zzc.jpg[/img]

exploitedpocket
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#40

Unread post by exploitedpocket » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:19 am

The current episode of Dividing line at Bohra aalakamaan seems like it was well understood by then Mansoos or so called Mansoos. So kothar surely may thought of future risk on its establishment & worried about coalition of Udaipur movement with Qutbi Bohras.
So now on its crystal clear that recent visit was nothing other than "Divide & Rule" game plan. Or in other words a mastermind step to prevent unity of reformists or anti-kotharis.

Otherwise 40, years was a big time period to make gentleman's request if the administration was really caring for a reunion. Why such appeals were not made when a riot took place in front of Prince Taha in holy monyh of 2012

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#41

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:43 am

THE CURSE OF UDAIPUR BEFALLS THE ORTHDOX BOHRA REGIME

Few weeks ago we all watched the video where SMS abused and threatened the Udaipur capital of the reform movement, it's senior leaders publicly defamed.

SMS gestured with frothing words the end of Udaipur movement, this site also reported a few excommunicated members were convinced to join the orthodox side. In the SMS speech the Adamji Peerbhoy family was insulted, women of udaipur publicly criticised. Fanatic youth were brainwashed to chant Khama Maula in a hysterical war cry. I naively thought the world would end for the reform movement if the mob attacked the minority reformist.

It is sad to say this but let history record the facts. These are facts and true events.

Within weeks the 52nd Diai departed , and the 53rd is in dispute, the STS family is fractured
For good , the orthodox dawat is spli,t where thousands have switched sides, families on opposing sides, if not physically , but definitely emotionally. Non of the 2 Diai will come out victorious. Doubts, disloyalty, fear will always haunt SMS. Then came the innocent deaths where the authorities are annoyed at the incompetency of dawat in public control, while all the time it flaunted the fake capability of expert event organisers eg Muharram get together.

This topic cleverly states the reformist fortress is intact, it is by Allah grace, while the conquering mighty wealthy army of SMS is in tatters, reputation in the media and Bombay streets in discredit, . The reformist are as many as they were. But if one looks at the Abde ..loss after loss. Abdes drifting without certain about the future. If one watches SMS in recent days he has aged years in the few days, he is speechless. These are signs of despair. Destiny created a reformist from within their own highest office and presented SKQ.

I myself before last Friday warned that the mighty SMS oppressive army will return, but I a mere mortal, how would I have known that Allah protects and has in store good tidings for the real truth and innocent victims fighting for their rights and accountability.

Welcome to the free and secular appropriate khamma Reformist of Udaipur. I think SMS if superstitious will think twice before visiting Udaipur again.

Angel-bohra
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra Lord, Supported SMS

#42

Unread post by Angel-bohra » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:03 pm

abhi ye kya naya natak hein
got this wats app msg

Aaj saifee hall meeting hati jema youth shabab ek karwa ni planing ni waat thai
Ane Ali Qadar maula ni raza si planning par amal karwu decide thayu
Kale news paper ma b Appil karse
Ane Ali Qadr maula farmayu k aa kam ma kitlo waqt lagse to sh. Ishaq bhai kayu k maula 6 mahina to ena par maula farmayu k Ashara ms b 6 mahina baki che to kewa ni garaz k aa kam thai jaye to insha allha ashara udr mai thase

Reporter
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#43

Unread post by Reporter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:30 am

Here is the appeal published in the Udaipur local paper. The wily Muffadal camp is once again trying to woo reformists. Something really afoot..
Attachments
appeal-march-2014.jpg

Akhtiar Wahid
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#44

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:37 am

Jab Ali qadar Ala maqam bolta quran duniya na raja yemen na band baja ilahul ard al qudisiya al roohaniya Muffadal Janab apni family ko ek nahee kar paaye woh Youth aur shabad ko ...... karegay!

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#45

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:05 pm

Hmmm, So Muffadal Saheb wants to talk again. This overture from his camp cannot be taken at face value. He who in December left Udaipur in a huff, declaring laanats and insults of reformists, now wants to patch up things. The flip-flopping of Muffy has become his hallmark characteristic. It shows that his tongue moves faster than his brain. It shows his emotional and intellectual instability. He has this strange foot fetish, and keeps putting his foot in his mouth. This Udaipur appeal is the latest example of it.

And this appeal is just a ploy, to make a show of dialogue, to show that he is ready to reconcile, to fool the gullible abdes and his bought out politicians, babas and maulvis. But he and his entourage must know that the demands of Udaipur are not just confined to Udaipur nor do they just pertain to reformists. Our demands of accountability, transparency, jamat democracy and end of raza and baraat must apply to the whole community. Is he ready to accept these demands? Does he or his lackeys have even the calibre to understand what we are asking for. If they are thinking that they can cut a private deal with Udaipur Youthies then they must know that it's not going to cut it. We have not fought for 40 odd years to settle for half-measures or to get lured by their half-hearted and opportunist attempts at peace.

And what cruel and delicious irony it is that the man Ghulam Hussain who was once THE reformist leader, who defected to the Shabab 15 years ago, is now being appointed to conduct the dialogue with the very people whom he betrayed. Either they have no sense of irony or these Muffy's merry men must excel in the art of mental cruelty. For reformists Ghulam Hussain has lost all credibility, and I'm guessing that reformist leaders might actually talk to the devil himself but not him. He sold the movement down the river, and over the years has helped the other side by revealing our strategies and secrets to wrest control of community properties. His crime is unpardonable, and as I said then, I'll say it again that if we were some wild tribal society he would have been lynched alive. And now, what a joke of history it is that that the same person is at the negotiating table. It's time we turned the table on him once again.

bohra_manus
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#46

Unread post by bohra_manus » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:13 pm

Is it possible that Muffy camp is worried that reformists may join hands with SKQ because his vision of dawat matches very closely with what reformists have been asking so they are making last ditch attempts to bring reformists into their side?
Just a thought ....

Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#47

Unread post by Ozdundee » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:19 pm

I don't speak for PDB, but my comments are as a freelance reformist

SMS gesture for reconciliation are always welcome if they are sincere and trustworthy.

SMS knows our desire to reconcile with SKQ and is being opportunistic and either spoil that outcome or jump the queu

The abde trolls on this site can retract their accusations that reformist are insignificant voice. SMS would not have made such a move if we were not a threat. Reformist are growing, though slowly it is the cultural and traditional shift of the defiant how small or big.

Etiquette states that reconciliation are done face to face and not through media propaganda

Appointing a deserter and not a zada to lead to reconciliation shows disrespect of reformists authority or status. Reformists should appoint a similar status or ranked liaison person to receive this rep from SMS . Leaders of PDB should avoid giving a low ranked SMS rep audience .

Demands are out there so hopefully they can state what is their approach to reconciliation, has an independent observer or arbitrator been assigned ?

The outcome of any reconciliation whether it be SKQ or SMS must be in mutual benefit. It should not be confused as forgive and forget.

bohra_manus
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#48

Unread post by bohra_manus » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:27 pm

I am a reformist but here I speak for my self and not for the entire Reformist community:
I would not reconcile with SMS camp, absolutely no.
I see the vision of SKQ a much better option and would go that route if I had to make a choice.

Humsafar
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#49

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:39 pm

bohra_manus wrote:Is it possible that Muffy camp is worried that reformists may join hands with SKQ because his vision of dawat matches very closely with what reformists have been asking so they are making last ditch attempts to bring reformists into their side?
Just a thought ....
You're right, that is the only reason. That's why this move reeks of opportunism. I wish there was a more polite way of saying it, but there is a popular saying.... jab backside lagi phatne, khairat lagi batne.

Ozdundee,
Agree with you. Reconciliation is always welcome... but with honest brokers. This appeal through media as you point out, instead of direct approach, is itself a dishonest act. If these guys are serious they can talk to us directly, they know our people, they know our office, send us a letter or your emissary, and let's start talking without getting the media involved. But then, they would do that only if they were serious.

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#50

Unread post by Habeel » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:57 pm

If Reconciliation happens, I will be very curious to see how reformist takes stand. Is it gonna be based on mutual benefit or based on truth and justice? Ofcourse its gonna be personal choice.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#51

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:28 pm

Humsafar wrote:
bohra_manus wrote:Is it possible that Muffy camp is worried that reformists may join hands with SKQ because his vision of dawat matches very closely with what reformists have been asking so they are making last ditch attempts to bring reformists into their side?
Just a thought ....
You're right, that is the only reason. That's why this move reeks of opportunism. I wish there was a more polite way of saying it, but there is a popular saying.... jab backside lagi phatne, khairat lagi batne.

Ozdundee,
Agree with you. Reconciliation is always welcome... but with honest brokers. This appeal through media as you point out, instead of direct approach, is itself a dishonest act. If these guys are serious they can talk to us directly, they know our people, they know our office, send us a letter or your emissary, and let's start talking without getting the media involved. But then, they would do that only if they were serious.
You're right H - they are not serious.

You'll agree that the revenue stream from Udaipur is not big enough for them to worry about - plus they don't really want you guys back, after all these years of festering bitterness and resentment.

They're merely making a token gesture for the sake of publicity - so that when you all eventually go and join Khuzzy (which you will!)... they can proclaim that they tried their level best to bring you back to "Haq"... but you all went with Mr Dushman anyhow lol!

Therefore:
1) They will use this to show and prove, how you guys were against the Dawat from the very beginning...
2) They will use this to show and prove, that Khuzzy has been against the Dawat from the very beginning...

Ultimately their aim is to damage the reputation and credibility of Khuzzy among the Bohra masses - which unfortunately Udaipur has the ability to deliver for them.

You guys should play this game very very carefully over the next few months or even years... I hope you're all looking at the big picture and thinking things through from every angle.

Still, I could be wrong I suppose - no wait, I'm Qutbi-Hero therefore I'm always right! ... Y'all better not screw things up for my main man Khuzzy! :mrgreen:

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#52

Unread post by alam » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Humsafar wrote:Hmmm, So Muffadal Saheb wants to talk again. . .

And this appeal is just a ploy, to make a show of dialogue, to show that he is ready to reconcile, to fool the gullible abdes and his bought out politicians, babas and maulvis. But he and his entourage must know that the demands of Udaipur are not just confined to Udaipur nor do they just pertain to reformists. Our demands of accountability, transparency, jamat democracy and end of raza and baraat must apply to the whole community. Is he ready to accept these demands? Does he or his lackeys have even the calibre to understand what we are asking for. If they are thinking that they can cut a private deal with Udaipur Youthies then they must know that it's not going to cut it. We have not fought for 40 odd years to settle for half-measures or to get lured by their half-hearted and opportunist attempts at peace.
. . . .
I am heartened and encouraged ot learn that the reformist movement has the interests of the whole dawoodi bohra community as its core values. One of the many risks of this reformist movement aligning itself to a particular camp (SKQ vs SMS) would be to disenfranchise the Bohras in the ones excluded.

The Reform Movement is actually far more relevant and impactful than it likely has in the past 40 some years. Part of its relevance and power comes from a commitment to social reforms without caving in to special interests. I would caution the Central Board of this reformist Movement against any alliances that might compromise its commitment to justice by, say, disenfranchising significant portions of the community, as one example.

Maqbool
Posts: 849
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#53

Unread post by Maqbool » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:58 am

Muffadal bs has cursed the udaipuries in his last visit, no one, even any enemy will do so. This BS is pucca politician. does not have any feelings about human beings. What ever comes to his mind he is doing as politician does. He request to come to main fold at his own terms and if rejected he simply curse. Now he wants to prevent these people to join KQ Kemp he simply put an appeal again.

This is his other quality, must be included what Humanbeings had listed in other thread. "Hardcore Politician"

monsuier74
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:41 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#54

Unread post by monsuier74 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:43 am

At the onset I would like to say that win the hearts of the people and rest will follow.
A message to SMS if you really want the majority of the people be with you then first and foremost stop your authoritarian methods and give a equal status to women(they are no stones or showpieces)
Keep a check on the Amils and ofcourse first and foremost your family members
Resort to a method where money does not form an important subject,as we are frustrated with the theology of covers and salams
Your Bayans should not be boosting of any mojijas,your father and grandfather and make it short and relevant to the subject.islamic history and in particular Fatimid history is really very interesting and make it interesting and the crowd will follow.
incorporate some good changes which you are already aware and see how they speak good of you.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#55

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:24 am

monsuier74 wrote:At the onset I would like to say that win the hearts of the people and rest will follow.
A message to SMS if you really want the majority of the people be with you then first and foremost stop your authoritarian methods and give a equal status to women(they are no stones or showpieces)
Keep a check on the Amils and ofcourse first and foremost your family members
Resort to a method where money does not form an important subject,as we are frustrated with the theology of covers and salams
Your Bayans should not be boosting of any mojijas,your father and grandfather and make it short and relevant to the subject.islamic history and in particular Fatimid history is really very interesting and make it interesting and the crowd will follow.
incorporate some good changes which you are already aware and see how they speak good of you.
Do you really think this can happen!!! hahahahaha he is a puppet of SYN family and his brothers, I bet he takes raza from them to even go to baitul khala!

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#56

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:37 am

Delighted to see the invitation from SMS camp for reconciliation with Reformist group. As QH pointed out. There is a lot of politics in this gesture and kothar is shrewd and smart at this political game. I also agree with Ozdunee regarding the representative from SMS camp must be some one of valued position or shall I say it must be SMS himself the 53rd dai. This is his moment of truth to invite the very mumineen into one umbrella.

Such reconciliatory meeting must be in public and must be audio video recorded / live from both sides. We shall see the negotiation and invitation (dawa) skills of Dai. Reformist must not bend or twist any of their demands. If at all there is any twisting or distortion of the conditions. It would be a beneficial move when many reformist minded bohras will join the orthodox fold and spread the free thinking mentality at local levels. Once reformist group gets recognition in the eyes of orthodoxed abdes, the bitterness will fade and hopefully much needed balance of free thinkers can be achieved as compared to abde majority in inclusive cult.

Accountability is required at various levels. Systematic financial level to behavioral level of jamat or community members. There must be a provision to hire services of statutory auditors of repute such as ENY, KPMG etc. Balance sheet, profit & loss statements, Income & Expenses statements of every project must be provided on website or at amil’s office, without any restrictions.

Communicating through Media is a marketing ploy used by kothar to present themselves as sheeps and they would turn wolves in closed door reconciliatory meetings. Therefore I suggest live audio video recording of such meetings.

S. Insaf
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#57

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:21 am

Talk of reconciliation every time through advertisements is a publicity staunt. All the time invitation for talk was given by Anjuman-e-Burhani (formed in 1975), a representative organization of Shia Dawoodi Bohra Jamat. There are Dawoodi Bohras, Sulymani Bohras, Alia Bohra etc. but there is no Bohra sect in the name of Shia Dawoodi Bohra community. There will be now Mufaddali Bohra and Qutbi Bohra. Gulam Husain (Faizee) Manager was one who headed the Reform (Youth) movement in Udaipur and obliviously he knows addresses of reformist organizations in Udaipur, even if other so called Shia Dawoodi Bohras may not know.
Right from beginning the reformist Dawoodi Bohras are insisting that the talk for reconciliation can be held between properly authorized persons from Dawat-e-Hadiya and Central Board and the entire discussion must be reported and recorded.
But that is not possible in the present circumstances when there is dispute for 53rd Dai and hence there is no Dai or Dawat-e-Hadiya.
Therefore the reformists have thrown the offer in the dust bin.
After considering reformists enemies of Dai and religion now they accept that there is no difference in the faith of reformists and orthodox Bohras. They are not separated; they are just set apart from each other. The reformists have their emotional religious and social roots in the Dawoodi Bohra Community and they have never felt that they are not the part of the community. What has set us apart is Excommunication (Baraat). So our pre-condition is end the un-Islamic and un-constitutional Baraat before dialogues begins.

alam
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#58

Unread post by alam » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:30 pm

Yes I agree,
Excommuunication must end.
End baraat, social boycott - and it has to be done Pro active- clear explicit articulate instructions from the top- Mufaddalbhai Saheb, QJ, qasreAali Ali, Aamil, and most important Jamaat Ayaan. Because a lot of times they give instructions tomthenjanaatmoffice holdes to do their dirty laundry, and hen Kothar claims or cries innocent.
So we should not expect anything less than clear and explicit instructions from all and to all khidmatguzaars with Consisitency.

Not to belabor the issue - but aamils and shehzadas have been known to say one thing on the pulpit, and then encourage privately to boycott on a personal level. And then friends tell friends to boycott - so its a social cycle of perpetuation.

It may take years to truly end, but it can start anytime.

humanbeing
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Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#59

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:37 am

S. Insaf wrote: Right from beginning the reformist Dawoodi Bohras are insisting that the talk for reconciliation can be held between properly authorized persons from Dawat-e-Hadiya and Central Board and the entire discussion must be reported and recorded.
But that is not possible in the present circumstances when there is dispute for 53rd Dai and hence there is no Dai or Dawat-e-Hadiya.
Therefore the reformists have thrown the offer in the dust bin.
S. Insaf bhai

Your opinion seems confused ! in order to recognize the Dawat-e-hadiya; reformist must recognize the Dai to be followed ? SMS or SKQ ? accordingly reformist shall accept to come forward for negotiations with “the recognized Dai and his Daawat-e-hadiya”


S. Insaf wrote: What has set us apart is Excommunication (Baraat). So our pre-condition is end the un-Islamic and un-constitutional Baraat before dialogues begins.
Excommunication from what >? A daawat-e-hadiya which according to reformist does not exist anymore ?

Or we can say, reformist’s opposition dissolved in the event of dispute over 53rd Dai ?

y-kuc
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:10 am

Re: Mufaddal couldn't crack a single brick of Reformist fort

#60

Unread post by y-kuc » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:00 am

From what i can figure out I have realized they are more interested in the properties there, specifically a one masjid near the roza.It is said to be some Dai's masjid - correct me if I am wring.

I have only been to Udaipur once but the masjid i am talking of is the one where around 5 years back give or take, when SKQ had come to Udaipur and stayed at Telmill wala's place (i think thats the name), He has managed to get into the masjid and lead afternoon Namaz Imamat.
Do any of you know what I am talking of ?